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Made in us
Been Around the Block




I've recently seen a lot of discussion about using Whirlwinds, and I was wondering if any had them actually perform better than Dev Squads with Heavy Bolters.  For about the cost of three Whirlwinds, you can have two - six man Dev Squads with three Heavy Bolters a piece.  You start on the board during escalation, while if you play escalation with Whirlwinds you only get, in the best case, 4 turns of shooting from the Whirlwinds, or 12 ordinance templates in a game, reduced from the maximum of 18 (assuming non-random game length).  That's effectively removing a single Whirlwind from your offensive firepower.  With scatter, and running up against MEQ and using mine-fields, I find that Heavy Bolters seem to kill more MEQ models than the strength six mines.  The Heavy Bolters have a better chance to hit than the mine field, which offsets the worse chance to wound.  Here's a quick rundown of my calculations: (assuming T4 target)

1 Heavy Bolter Shot:

2/3 chance to hit * 2/3 chance to wound = 4/9 wounds/shot

4/9 wounds/shot * 18 shots = 8 wounds (before saves)

1 Model Moving Through Mine-Field

1/2 chance to hit * 5/6 chance to wound = 5/12 wounds/model

5/12 wounds/model * 20 models = 8 + 1/3 wounds (before saves)

Obviously poor line of sight will seriously hamper the Dev Squad's effectiveness, while giving the Whirlwinds a better chance of eliminating return fire (i.e. hiding).  But with 18 Heavy Bolter shots a turn (ideally), and 12 hitting on average, the three Whirlwinds need to get a significant number of hits to be similarly effective.  If  you are using the Vengeance Missiles, you need to get 12 hits, which after scatter and partials, seems difficult for me to ever accomplish, even with three pie-plates (it could just be that I scatter poorly, one of the reason that I love teleport homers).   If you are using the Castellan Mine-Field, you need 20 models to walk through your mine-fields in a turn to be equally as effective as the Heavy Bolter shots.

Has anyone been able to use the Whirlwinds effectively in a tournament environment?  Does their effectiveness warrant using all three HS FOC slots instead of two for the Devs?  If you used them in a tournament or competitve games, do you feel that Heavy Bolter Devs could have done equally well?

Thoughts, comments, and any contructive response in general are greatly appreciated.

   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




The thing you have to remember with the Dev vs Whirlwind argument though is that optimally - no one will be able to shoot at your whirlwinds.

A 6 man Dev squad is just asking to get obliterated by the enemy.

I have used 2 whirlwinds in a tourney setting and they worked wonderfully. Its not too hard to hide 2 or 3 rhino chassis vehicles behind terrain.

Admittedly with escalation, the whirlwinds lose some of their value.

I personally am fond of a very shooty marine list using the trait Honor your Wargear, then I use whirlwinds (2-3) for my heavy and then 3 units of 8 devs with infiltrate. Add that to your standard mix of tac squads and some speeders and you have a very deadly shooty list.

-Iron Father

   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

Something else to consider.

GW implies (but never enforces) tht games should be played on terrain heavy tables. If you do so blocking choke points with castellan missile barrages is invaluable. If your play surface is a pool table with the odd hill or ruin then mines dont matter so much.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




somewhere not playing 40K...bummer



If your play surface is a pool table with the odd hill or ruin then mines dont matter so much.


That sounds like the most boring game of 40K imaginable!

You dont have to use mines. Heck if your fighting IG or eldar dont even think about it.  I try to squeeze in 2 whirlies and a Dev squad of HBs. Does the trick. Depending on the opponent I switch my missle composition, two mines, two barrage, or one of each.


" They were'nt Nazi's Walter they were nihilists!", " They kept saying they beleive in nothing."

"...Nihilists?....", " Say what you will about National Socailism, at least it's an ethos."

 
   
 
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