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PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, my friend is sitting right here, argueing with me that a massed drop pod army for nids (5 to 10) is perfectly fine and balanced for tyranids, and in the same breath says that if my orks had the same, regardless of the lack of moving afterwards and attacking possabilities, that they would be the most broken army. Now personally, I find this to be the HIGHEST level of hypocracy, as a 5 to 10 drop pod nid army has the potential to be bonkers with a coms relay. But he is seriously shaking his head, saying orks with roks would just break the game. Please point out why he is wrong, as I cannot convince this dumm-a. Or feel free to take his side, whichever.

No unit can be broken just by existing, only by a combination of availability, cost, and rules.

The opportunity for orks to deep strike isn't inherently broken, it depends what you get to deep strike with and when.

Tyranids getting deep strike isn't bad, because whilst they can heft far scarier things than a squad of marines (tyrannofex or something similar), they pay more than twice as much as marines.

If a 'Rok' was carrying - say - 20 shoota boyz- then deep striking in with it and deploying them isn't much different to a tyrannocyte carrying devourer-armed gaunts. More importantly, it's not much different to a battlewagon - except the battlewagon can in theory be shot down on the way in, but the orks getting out can charge that turn.

The one unit which might make roks broken are burna boyz. I'd be hesitant to allow a unit with 15 flamers to deep strike!

To be fair, these are Orks, the rule is probably going to be roll for mishap, then roll scatter and see if you have to roll mishap again.

In 7th edition, the idea of something being "broken" has basically gone out the window since there's effectively not attempt at balance being made.

Really, there isn't a particularly huge reason why Orks getting some sort of DS mechanism would be significantly more broken than anything else. If being able to pod in a unit of Sternguard with a ton of combi-meltas and split them after coming in to shoot at two targets isn't broken, I'm not sure anything Orks have would be tremendously broken.

That said, Roks don't really work like Drop Pods or Spores do either. They're typically wildly unguided (by comparison) and are usually huge, as in filled with tens of thousands or even millions of orks huge (often with many being killed in the process), not something that's going to drop in guided by some sort of intelligence or mechanism and deliver small group of combatants right where they need to be. They aren't really something suited to a normal 40k game, rather they're something a 40k game might take place inside.

 Vaktathi wrote:
In 7th edition, the idea of something being "broken" has basically gone out the window since there's effectively not attempt at balance being made.

Really, there isn't a particularly huge reason why Orks getting some sort of DS mechanism would be significantly more broken than anything else. If being able to pod in a unit of Sternguard with a ton of combi-meltas and split them after coming in to shoot at two targets isn't broken, I'm not sure anything Orks have would be tremendously broken.

That said, Roks don't really work like Drop Pods or Spores do either. They're typically wildly unguided (by comparison) and are usually huge, as in filled with tens of thousands or even millions of orks huge (often with many being killed in the process), not something that's going to drop in guided by some sort of intelligence or mechanism and deliver small group of combatants right where they need to be. They aren't really something suited to a normal 40k game, rather they're something a 40k game might take place inside.

Couldn't agree more. The only issue with Roks would be the fluffy one, since ballance is down the drain anyways. Deep-Striking a full squad of burnas would be a lot of fun, though... Looted Drop Pod anyone?

You want Ork drop pods? Don't a lot of Orks get smushed when they drop-rok in? If they made it fluffy you'd probably have to make the embarked unit save against an automatic S5 hit or something lol

Well, given that Tyranids got their Drop Pod long after their Codex came out, I wouldn't exactly count Orks out for getting one. If they do, it will probably have some Orkiness to it, like auto-scatter or something to that effect. But so help me if it doesn't stuff three dozen Orks into one "pod", I will be pretty saddened. I picture something that looks like box (because screw aerodynamics, they are Orks!) with a single door on it with a Gork or Mork face on it that has some jet engines haphazardly strapped to the sides.

I would laugh if every army has a drop pod by the end of this edition.

An ork drop pod would probably be fun, like a blast for where it lands. Probably scatters 3D6 instead of 2, doesn't need to correct itself like the marine one, would probably just punch through whatever it hit.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Well, given that Tyranids got their Drop Pod long after their Codex came out, I wouldn't exactly count Orks out for getting one. If they do, it will probably have some Orkiness to it, like auto-scatter or something to that effect. But so help me if it doesn't stuff three dozen Orks into one "pod", I will be pretty saddened. I picture something that looks like box (because screw aerodynamics, they are Orks!) with a single door on it with a Gork or Mork face on it that has some jet engines haphazardly strapped to the sides.

I would laugh if every army has a drop pod by the end of this edition.

Nids did have it taken away from the codex before the current because there wasn't a model or something.

Most people have a similar idea to me; automatically gets the "Explodes!" Result upon landing.

Of the armies that canonically should have some kind of drop pod, only the Orks are missing one now.* But it's true that Roks are described as too big for use in a game. I think if you wanted to do it "right", you'd have a model the size of a stompa that looked like a built-up asteroid covered in gun turrets, that carried at least 30 orks, and was almost totally unguided - always scatters 4D6 inches or something. If you scatter into something, reduce the distance so you don't hit it, and instead the Rok suffers an automatic 'Explodes' result.

Something completely insane like that would fit the bill.

And to keep things on topic, I agree that it wouldn't be any more broken than anything else. With appropriate rules and point cost it should be fine. It can't be any worse than drop podding melta sternguard, or dropping a Tyranid MC or a big bunch of close combat bugs into your opponent's lines.

* I would argue Chaos Marines are (as usual) screwed over, they deserve access to normal drop pods just like they deserve access to Rhinos and Land Raiders. Dreadclaws are not a substitute.

Or you could have a Rok as a building and just put it in your deployment zone when you start the game. Your army could be the Orks who survived the drop from orbit.

There'd be a reason to use nerfed burnas actually.

But i'd count on tellyportas more than on a rokk. There are currently tellyportas for orkses. If you run The detachment from WAAAAGH Ghazzy, your troops have a 5+ chance to be allowed to deepstrike and everything else has 6+.

However, i doubt you'd ever see it in action in a non-crazy-casual game. Cause WAAAGH Ghazzy detachment has worse rules, relics, the deepstrike is random and...it's a deep strike, so almost never worth it for large blobs.

Drop pods would be somewhat interesting depending on cost and rules. I'd definitely give a try to droppod meganobz, burnas, a deff dread or a squadron of killa knaz. That'd be hilarious. They'd be actually used in regular games other than in dredd mobz!

Why didn't I think about the possibilities of Ork Roks before now?... They don't need to me huge, just like smaller roks with room for 20 Ork Boyz that Scatters 2d6 no matter what and does a S 6 AP - Large Blast hit to any unit it hits, repositioning them if the entire unit isn't killed towards the table edge they came in from, whereafter the Orks take 1d6 S 4 AP - hits just like the Mob Rule. Maybe with options for four BS 2 Shootas, Big Shootas or Rokkit Launchas to complete the picture?

This is the bestest idea ever.

Orks have vehicles, Tyranids do not. They completely lacked any form of mobility - hence the new spore pod, er I mean Tyrannocyte.

Ork drop pods would be awesome....

i would want a 200 page books with nothing but god awful mishaps that could occur... and need to roll like a D666666 for it too

haha

one should be entire orbital fleet accidentally crashes into planet


but in terms of brokenness... warkoptas can get you across the board by the same turn as a drop pod would anyway.

Orks aren't missing Drop Pods.

Waagh! Ghazghkull and its Detachment has Deep Strike for everything that is not a flyer.

With all these forces arriving by drop pod, why don't they just stay in space and fight. It's a bit like saying 'Hey, rather than fighting here with the big guns, why don't we both drive over here and fight'.

Dumb narrative.

 Wulfmar wrote:
With all these forces arriving by drop pod, why don't they just stay in space and fight. It's a bit like saying 'Hey, rather than fighting here with the big guns, why don't we both drive over here and fight'.

Dumb narrative.

Presumably because whoever holds the planet can have anti-orbital guns shoot the stuff in orbit to pieces.

That took literally two seconds to come up with, I'm sure you could come up with a bazilion more reasons if you actually wanted to.

Guns on ships would be more powerful than on a planet, plus they're not fighting against gravitational pull to get the shells to escape velocity.

You could make up stories for it, but it still seems sloppy

 Wulfmar wrote:
With all these forces arriving by drop pod, why don't they just stay in space and fight. It's a bit like saying 'Hey, rather than fighting here with the big guns, why don't we both drive over here and fight'.

Dumb narrative.

FOR GREAT HONOUR AND GRIMDARKNESS.

I prefer the idea of ships firing drop pods full of grunts at the enemy ships in space. Better use for them!

Considering SW Droppods have become their own choice in the latest codex: couldn't you take an unbound orc army and take some SW droppods along for them to ride in?

OK, Ork Rok rules, just my guess:

Lord of War costing 450(ish) pts

Transport capacity - 60 (it is a relatively small Rok)

Deep Strike from ongoing reserve

On entering play place a 10 inch apocalyptic blast marker on the table and roll for scatter using 4d6

Once position determined - subject to mishaps etc., etc., all enemy units under the blast marker take a s7 ap - hit

All units being transported in the Rok take a s5 ap - hit equal to the number of models in the unit

All units hit by the Rok plate and occupants automatically suffer from the concusion special rule on turn of entering play and for the next turn.

Afterwards....WAAAAGGHHHHHHHHH!

 Wulfmar wrote:
Guns on ships would be more powerful than on a planet, plus they're not fighting against gravitational pull to get the shells to escape velocity.

You could make up stories for it, but it still seems sloppy

Depnds on the gun. Imperial anti-orbit batteries tend to be defence laser emplacements - which are a damn sight scarier than anything a ship can mount because they've got a hive cities power grid to fuel them and a planetary atmosphere to dissapate heat discharge into. See 'Siege of Vraks' for an example of why being above the horizon of a major ground emplacement ends badly.



Harking back to Epic Armageddon, the Drop-Rok was a super-heavy. There is no real reason why the Rok couldn't be bloody huge, and I approve of the concept of it killing a number of the passengers on arrival. Essentially, it should be sort of a 'drop-bastion' that allows you to put a sizable fortified mob somewhere on the table....

BRB wrote:
Considering SW Droppods have become their own choice in the latest codex: couldn't you take an unbound orc army and take some SW droppods along for them to ride in?

Umm... Wait. Er.

...yes?

I mean it would be unbound only of course, cos only battle brothers can use each others transports, but Orks using looted space marine pods is almost sensible. Rule of cool may even get it on the table without complaint.

So, looted drop pod. Another to add to my list of crazy conversions.

This is only if I'm not missing some obvious rule.

Ah yea, I forgot about the lazarz!

http://web.archive.org/web/20010804184933/http://www.armageddon3.com/English/Campaign/Troops/tellyporta_boyz.html

locarno24 wrote:

 Wulfmar wrote:
Guns on ships would be more powerful than on a planet, plus they're not fighting against gravitational pull to get the shells to escape velocity.

You could make up stories for it, but it still seems sloppy

Depnds on the gun. Imperial anti-orbit batteries tend to be defence laser emplacements - which are a damn sight scarier than anything a ship can mount because they've got a hive cities power grid to fuel them and a planetary atmosphere to dissapate heat discharge into. See 'Siege of Vraks' for an example of why being above the horizon of a major ground emplacement ends badly.

This. You can mount a much more powerful weapon (not to mention Void Shields!) on a planet than you can on a ship. Even if we disregard the space required a planet can probably absorb the forces involved in firing some of the more over-the-top 40k weapons better than a 10 km long ship.

 Wulfmar wrote:
With all these forces arriving by drop pod, why don't they just stay in space and fight. It's a bit like saying 'Hey, rather than fighting here with the big guns, why don't we both drive over here and fight'.

Dumb narrative.

They used to. It was called Battlefleet Gothic. It was quite fun. Then GW said "Let there be only gross profits!" and stopped production and support for it.

There could be plenty of other reasons to drop in, too. You really need boots on the ground in order to hold territory. Air war (as practiced by the US and NATO) isn't particularly effective at taking back territory. Just look at what's going on with ISIS in Iraq and Syria. Lots of airstrikes... essentially no effect on ISIS' ability to hold on its territory (but it does blunt its ability to organize large assault forces that would allow it to take more territory). If the Orkses want the planet for some reason or other, they will need to come get it. Plus, shooting things from orbit* is not really Ork-style. They want to get in your face and start krumpin'.

*admittedly, it's the only way to be sure