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Eldenfirefly wrote:
There is a new rule in the Grand Tournament pack that allows us to field Heretic Astartes Lord of War for an auxliary detachment for just 1 CP !!!! (As long as our warlord is also Heretic Astartes warlord) I can field my Lord of Skulls in my CSM army for just 1 CP now ! I am so happy !!!!!

Yeah, great change! Unfortunately any of our LoWs that aren't a KHORNE unit will still run you 2CP because of Martial Legacy. But that's another problem. 2CP is a lot better than 4CP. Now it's just a question of which are the best ones.

Yup, its a great change! And for forgeworld unit, well 2CP is still a lot better than 4CP.

Has anyone tried out a list based on the dreadclaws and the latest faq?


I had this thought because with Faith and Fury, I can have Kharne, + exalted Champion w/ Violent Urgency (+1" to advance and charge rolls), and prodigeous use of banners of wrath (reroll charges) as well as using Kharn as an uber reroll mechanic for chosen with meltas and havocs with whatever.

I'm reasonably certain that 3x9 beserkers, with a 67% chance of charge success, plus up to 5 dreadclaws with a 39% chance of success, plus if I really wanted to... the characters, 2 chosen squads, and 2 havocs also with 39% chance to get into the fray, would give me 2 beserkers in, plus maybe 2 dreadclaws into mellee, and if I felt the need 2-3 of the other 6 also into mellee on turn 1. Might be unfun enough in a tournament to crush a few peoples dreams?

Is it viable?

Art of War channel just had a match between a World Eaters list and an pretty good Space Marine army. The World Eaters army won. Mark Perry said he won a local RTT with that list too. World Eaters are interesting. They are cheap but super killy, so they trade well (as long as they can get the charge in). Souping in The Scourged renegade CSM faction in order to get fight last is brillant.

On a separate note, with Venomcralers now at 110 points each, they make a good distraction Carnefixes for World Eaters too. And you can spend just 1 CP to put in a Kytan or a Lord of skulls. World Eaters can make a pretty fluffy yet mean list. 3 Venomcrawlers, a LOS, 3 or 4 Rhinos with zerkers. That's a lot of armor to chew through and there's some dakka too and a lot of melee goodness. Tabletop tactic's Lawrence played such a list with a Kytan Ravagerin a recent battle report. Its a great list!

Hey everyone! Looking at adding some staying power to my Iron Warriors and I somehow missed that lightning claws on terminators are free. So my question to you all, how do we feel about 5 man squads of terminators, 4 with claw / bolter and 1 with claw / reaper? Chuck in an icon of rage for a grand total of 155.

Pretty multi purpose, decent melee with the charge reroll. Admittedly no potential for cacophony, I tend to blow that on my havocs anyway. Can deep strike. Reapers give me some shots which actually have an AP value (anyone else struggling to kill incubi in cover?). Thinking of running 2/3 units like this and using 3x10 cultists for my battalion.

I haven't run across any incubi yet. I run 4 claws and a chainfist. For dakka I run a heavy flamer and 4 combi-bolters.

I didn't know you could use cacophony on Iron Warriors. I thought that was Emp's Children only.

Sappysid101 wrote:
Hey everyone! Looking at adding some staying power to my Iron Warriors and I somehow missed that lightning claws on terminators are free. So my question to you all, how do we feel about 5 man squads of terminators, 4 with claw / bolter and 1 with claw / reaper? Chuck in an icon of rage for a grand total of 155.

Pretty multi purpose, decent melee with the charge reroll. Admittedly no potential for cacophony, I tend to blow that on my havocs anyway. Can deep strike. Reapers give me some shots which actually have an AP value (anyone else struggling to kill incubi in cover?). Thinking of running 2/3 units like this and using 3x10 cultists for my battalion.

Yup, terminators with a single lightning claw are great now. And probably the best version of equipped terminators for our CSM terminators.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I didn't know you could use cacophony on Iron Warriors. I thought that was Emp's Children only.

Mark of Slaanesh

Edit spelling

Sappysid101 wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I didn't know you could use cacophony on Iron Warriors. I thought that was Emp's Children only.

Mark of Slaanesh

Edit spelling

Any legion can use cacophony, all is needed is that unit has the mark of slaanesh.

How do chosen with lighting claws compare? You can only get 5 with claws, but you can take extra ablative wounds without losing claws. Per wound it's more expensive, but per claw it's cheaper. You could even take pairs of claws and use your ablative wound models for some Dakka. It will be much better with the new codex though...

On that front, do we think chaos will appear in the next round of 6 codices? I'm hoping for emperor's children to get their codex this year, but that could be pushing it. Although there is scope for a khorne and slaanesh codex in 9th, but perhaps just one.


Back to the current Dex - how do spawns rank up? I'm not a fan of the models, but love the idea of a horde of spawns taking a flank.

And how to raptors deal with 9th - speed and objectives are key, so these seem great. Being great models helps too. I haven't built any warp talons, but I got them impression they were inferior? (Again should get a lot better when the new Dex hits).

Anyone licking their chops yet regarding this new "Disciples of Be'lakor" detachment? In that, both mortals (CSM units?) and demons can be in this detachment?
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/29/belakors-back-and-the-galaxys-mightiest-warriors-should-be-very-afraid/

Well, I reserved the book of Charadon 2 already. Just have to see what kind of army this disciples of Balakor is. I don't really have Balakor yet though...

There's something to be said about preordering....
Especially if it is in essence cut content and preorder DLC.

Mr Liechtenstein,

In the current (and previous) edition Spawns are decent in casual games.

Squads of 3 really won't hold up a flank in 2,000 point games. But they can do well (with some lucky random rolls) in 1,000 point games. Units of 1 Spawn are great at blocking deep strikers , objective camping, supporting melee, and just harassment.

Not sure how I feel about all of our rules across supplements and codices being reprinted in warzone charadon... it’s going to be a while
Before we see 2 wound chaos space marines and a new codex, isn’t it...

macluvin wrote:
Not sure how I feel about all of our rules across supplements and codices being reprinted in warzone charadon... it’s going to be a while
Before we see 2 wound chaos space marines and a new codex, isn’t it...

You mean to tell me you won't be hitting F5 every few seconds next weekend to ensure you get the Limited Edition Charadon book 2???

zzzz.... the latest reveal hints that its more or less a total reprint of past supplement rules... I don't know why I got my hopes up...

macluvin wrote:
Not sure how I feel about all of our rules across supplements and codices being reprinted in warzone charadon... it’s going to be a while
Before we see 2 wound chaos space marines and a new codex, isn’t it...

On the bright side this means CSM players don't have to buy the book unless you're really, really invested in Chaos Undivided with Belakor. In fact you shouldn't buy it. Do not buy this book

Without a new codex any supplement is going to be worthless... I really don’t think they should be marketing these releases to chaos space marines. In fact this supplement would have been cool potentially after the codex was released or like two years ago...

Man the chaos space marine codex is going to suck if this army of reknown is supposed to be an upgrade to the 9e codex... also get fethed Khorne daemonkin players, according to GW.

macluvin wrote:
Man the chaos space marine codex is going to suck if this army of reknown is supposed to be an upgrade to the 9e codex... also get fethed Khorne daemonkin players, according to GW.

Why are you expecting Chaos Undivided support to benefit Khorne players

Zzzz. the new Disciples of Belakor has so many restrictions. Cannot take daemon engines, daemon princes, cult troops or named characters. Must take one of each god of deamons before we can take a duplicate daemon unit.

It seems easier to just run Belakor alongside the army without running it as disciples of Belakor.

Yeah, I think that disciples of belakor are in tough spot for chaos players, just any mono chaos daemons list do better without the update. But it's a good book for undivided csm players, as it seems to cover every subfactions from faith and fury, and vigilus ablaze.

 Spreelock wrote:
Yeah, I think that disciples of belakor are in tough spot for chaos players, just any mono chaos daemons list do better without the update. But it's a good book for undivided csm players, as it seems to cover every subfactions from faith and fury, and vigilus ablaze.

Ah yes a reprint of the old material... I feel like a 9th edition codex would be a way better book for undivided though. In fact without an updated codex or a significant amount of begging from your opponent to house rule your faction into a half decent army I feel like the loyalist space marine codex would be a way better book for undivided players. The restrictions in my opinion really snuff all the potential; I mean arguably the legion equivalent trait was objectively an upgrade to the alpha legion trait, the psychic discipline and strats are pretty decent and fun, and in an odd twist neuter some of the things that make space marines stupid to play against (rerolls and what not). This really could have been an awesome opportunity to allow Khorne daemonkin players to put what they wanted on the table, and it hardly would have broken the game to allow monogod DOB armies across all the gods. I suppose removing daemon engines was necessary because the daemon locii combined with other stupid buffs could have made some overpowered units, but dumping a bunch of buffs on daemonically fueled units was one of the ways chaos should arguably be able to be played. And now that the chaos space marine codex ground hog saw its shadow it seems like 2W chaos space marines along with all the other updates that could make our faction actually playable are further down the pipeline.

So... anyone has any thoughts about how a Disciples of Belakor list might work? lol I mean, its a straight up buff if you are running black legion... As long as you leave your demon engines and cult marines at home... lol

Eldenfirefly wrote:
So... anyone has any thoughts about how a Disciples of Belakor list might work? lol I mean, its a straight up buff if you are running black legion... As long as you leave your demon engines and cult marines at home... lol

Only kind of list I think would work for Disciples is a BL gunline list... volkite contemptors, spammed havocs, oblits and terminators. Then for demons, you fling "teleport" via new shadow power every turn a large blobs of horrors, demonettes and bloodsletters. Although, flinging 9 flamers on first turn and using that stratagem to cause mortals on 6s is quite spicy.

Has anyone done the math on what you can get out of a possessed bomb list in a Be’lakor list? I mean the oblits seem to be the biggest benefactors but... I am simply not all that invested. All I know though is that daemon units that aren’t daemon engines are going to be the biggest winners via synergy of daemon locus and other buffs. Maybe a master of possession or two to really pump everyone up with cursed earth and what not...

macluvin wrote:
Has anyone done the math on what you can get out of a possessed bomb list in a Be’lakor list? I mean the oblits seem to be the biggest benefactors but... I am simply not all that invested. All I know though is that daemon units that aren’t daemon engines are going to be the biggest winners via synergy of daemon locus and other buffs. Maybe a master of possession or two to really pump everyone up with cursed earth and what not...

Yeah, but the issue is that disciples of Belakor makes you take all 4 gods daemons units before you can run a duplicate. Truly competitive types of lists generally focus and specialise rather than spread themselves out amongst so many different unit types. I mean, tzeentch daemons are shooty, nurgle daemons are used to hold objectives, and slanaash and Korne daemons want to charge in and kill stuff. Being forced to mix all 4 if you want to run duplicates is just ... you end up with a jack of all trades army that doesnt know what it wants to do.

Right now, I am inclined to explore just the CSM side of a DOB army. We will see, maybe I might add on a daemon patrol just for specifically one or two units of daemon troops.

BTW, do we have to run Belakor in a DOB army? or can we not have Belakor? He is a big target that is easily killed in the current meta. Its probably better to not take him I feel. Honestly, once you take out the things that make combat daemon armies good, like advance and charge, and cult marines, it just doesn't seem to make sense to run a dedicated combat army, even if Belakor himself wants to charge in and fight.

I am thinking of maybe a triple volkite contemptor army with lots of shooting, and some cheap troops or raptors for doing objectives all over the board. Maybe even run a Nortilith crown as well to help with the casting of the new discipline psychics that some have a higher casting cost. I would use the sorceror near the crown as the core of a castle for sending out cheap troops for objective purposes.

Eldenfirefly wrote:

macluvin wrote:
Has anyone done the math on what you can get out of a possessed bomb list in a Be’lakor list? I mean the oblits seem to be the biggest benefactors but... I am simply not all that invested. All I know though is that daemon units that aren’t daemon engines are going to be the biggest winners via synergy of daemon locus and other buffs. Maybe a master of possession or two to really pump everyone up with cursed earth and what not...

Yeah, but the issue is that disciples of Belakor makes you take all 4 gods daemons units before you can run a duplicate. Truly competitive types of lists generally focus and specialise rather than spread themselves out amongst so many different unit types. I mean, tzeentch daemons are shooty, nurgle daemons are used to hold objectives, and slanaash and Korne daemons want to charge in and kill stuff. Being forced to mix all 4 if you want to run duplicates is just ... you end up with a jack of all trades army that doesnt know what it wants to do.

Right now, I am inclined to explore just the CSM side of a DOB army. We will see, maybe I might add on a daemon patrol just for specifically one or two units of daemon troops.

BTW, do we have to run Belakor in a DOB army? or can we not have Belakor? He is a big target that is easily killed in the current meta. Its probably better to not take him I feel. Honestly, once you take out the things that make combat daemon armies good, like advance and charge, and cult marines, it just doesn't seem to make sense to run a dedicated combat army, even if Belakor himself wants to charge in and fight.

I am thinking of maybe a triple volkite contemptor army with lots of shooting, and some cheap troops or raptors for doing objectives all over the board. Maybe even run a Nortilith crown as well to help with the casting of the new discipline psychics that some have a higher casting cost. I would use the sorceror near the crown as the core of a castle for sending out cheap troops for objective purposes.

According to goonhammer Belakor as the warlord is a restriction. Remember that heralds count as daemons as well. The only synergy is chaos space marine units with the daemon key word or else you are honestly better off running two separate detachments if you REALLY wanted to run daemons with your chaos space marine army. Between Be’lakor, greater daemons, daemon engines, and cult marines, you really don’t have much to play with in a competitive list. Possessed oblits and maybe warp talons or even... mutis? are all the chaos space marines that will benefit at all from the daemon part of the list. Unless you absolutely need nurglings and bloodletters in the same list as your chaos warband... oh spawn can synergies too but not sure what you are going to do with that info. And master of possession...

Well, the CSM units still benefit from DOB trait. They don't need to be daemon keyword. It would at least make the list building much easier because we can take multiples of CSM units if we want to. Like triple CSM Volkite Contemptors can be taken and will benefit from being DOB. CSM still retains Cacophony. And that psychic spell of the new discipline can be used to reposition a 3 man Obliterator unit for maximum carnage on turn 1. Like the Obliterator unit can be save behind obscuring terrain on turn 1, and then easily repositioned with that psychic for the double shoot and maximum damage.