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I was wondering for the future about some good daemon prince builds that are really hard to kill, and/or really powerful. I would prefer they are flying but if they are on the ground and survive then i have no problem. Im looking for something that will stay on the board and is a big threat to the opposing player. Right now i use slaanesh lash princes with hopefully iron arm and they do a pretty go job with their flying but i was just wondering about alternative builds

Thanks,
Alex

The new 7th edition thing to do is a Nurgle Prince for that 2+ cover save at all times, take black mace of course and ML 3 with spell familiar.

another good build is a tzeentch (re-roll 1s on failed armor and inv. and cover saves) flying ML3 prince with spell familiar who doesnt go into melee but uses his ranged powers to dish out damage (or even better, malefic daemonology to summon stuff if you have the spare cash to field chaos daemon models).

He is cheaper in points than the above mentioned melee prince and is even harder to kill as the melee prince's 2+ cover ceases to exist once he is in cc and the tzeentch build can just use swoop to only get hit on 6s and those weapons that do have skyfire will usually grant him his 3+ armor save with re-roll 1s. Yeah good luck taking him out with anything other than a Crimson Hunter or Stormraven

how does the spell familiar work in 7ed and the warp charges?

you have the answer to that in your other thread

Yeah sorry i read this thread before I read the other thread, thanks mate!

The Great Unclean One. Get about 3+ bases of nurglings for sidekicks.

Nurgle is by far the best. Personally I prefer to take mine from C:CD over CSM, as I like the instant death balesword for dealing with wraith and dread knights.
Black mace would work better as an all rounder, however remember that he cannot sweeping advance, which can be crippling when facing large blobs.

Tzeentch DPs are probably second best right now, but still a long way behind nurgle. Now that psychic powers became harder to cast, and you can cast fewer per turn, they really lost a lot of their bite and utility compared to what they were able to do in 6th. The staff gives them str 8, letting them take down vehicles and some walkers without having to rely on smash, which is nice.

Slaanesh is only really good for using lash, and this was a gimmick even in 6th, when powers were more reliable. You can try to get those str 9 lash shots using iron arm if you like, but if you don't get the power, or don't successfully cast it, then you are paying 300+ points for a few str 6 shots a turn.

Khorne doesn't need discussing. By far the worst option available.

In your opinion how would you run a Nurgle daemon prince from the CSM codex? You said that running a DP from Daemons would be good if you take a Nurgle DP with Balesword and Nurglings, or a great unclean one with Nurglings. Im just looking for options as im trying different stuff. Also in the CSM codex i dont see why having a Nurgle DP is any good because they cant run and they only get a 5+ cover save unless you put them in cover which still would be difficult to do the whole game or at least when you need it.

Flying allows him to jink, jink 4+, +2 for Shrowded = 2+ cover save

If he has wings, you start him on the table on turn 1 in gliding mode. Dont change to swooping mode which would give you hard to hit, but it would take ages to reach cc since you can only chance stance from glide to swoop on turn 2, then you have to change back from swoop to glide on turn 3 and have to wait an additional turn to be able to assault (turn 4) earliest.

Instead, remain in gliding mode and move him around like jump infantry. Everytime he gets shot at, declare jink - you can only fire snapshots next turn but who cares - and smash your way into close combat by turn 2 if you deploy well. 2+ cover means you can even boldly deploy in the open (unless youre facing Tau) if it puts you as close to the enemy as possible. Remember to go 2nd that way the opponent has to deploy his army first and you can deploy your DP in reaction.

With ML3 Biomancy you have more than 50% chance of rolling Iron Arm, and a S9 T8 Daemon Prince is terrifying indeed. Or you can roll Endurance and get yourself a tasty 5+ FNP and EW

Thanks I diddnt think of that, i tried the Nurgle DP without flying and was wondering why people were saying that he was good when i had better results with the more expensive lash prince. what weapons and/or equipment would you give him? Ill try him in my next game

Technically it's a 33% chance to get iron arm with a Nurgle DP due to having to roll at least once on the Nurgle powers table.

You basically give him every option you can. Lesser is debatable and you can roll without it if you reeeally need those 10 pts elsewhere, but at worst you take an aetherblade so he has 2 specialist weapons and therefore an extra attack. I've seen some people forgo armor since you have a chance to roll it but that is absurd to me.

Ok so for the CD codex really anything goes, what about CSM for if i dont want to ally (just curious)

 Ignatius wrote:
Technically it's a 33% chance to get iron arm with a Nurgle DP due to having to roll at least once on the Nurgle powers table.

Not for DP's from Chaos Daemons codex. The chances to get survivability buffs and the balesword from rewards also makes them a good deal better than CSM DPs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sir Arun wrote:
If he has wings, you start him on the table on turn 1 in gliding mode. Dont change to swooping mode which would give you hard to hit, but it would take ages to reach cc since you can only chance stance from glide to swoop on turn 2, then you have to change back from swoop to glide on turn 3 and have to wait an additional turn to be able to assault (turn 4) earliest.

Instead, remain in gliding mode and move him around like jump infantry. Everytime he gets shot at, declare jink - you can only fire snapshots next turn but who cares - and smash your way into close combat by turn 2 if you deploy well. 2+ cover means you can even boldly deploy in the open (unless youre facing Tau) if it puts you as close to the enemy as possible. Remember to go 2nd that way the opponent has to deploy his army first and you can deploy your DP in reaction.

With ML3 Biomancy you have more than 50% chance of rolling Iron Arm, and a S9 T8 Daemon Prince is terrifying indeed. Or you can roll Endurance and get yourself a tasty 5+ FNP and EW

I'm pretty sure you can choose whether to swoop or glide at the beginning of your movement phase on turn 1, then choose again on turn 2, meaning you can assault on turn 3. Not terrible considering in some deployments that;'s the soonest you'll make it to combat anyways and it gives you hard to hit turn 1

 astro_nomicon wrote:
You basically give him every option you can. Lesser is debatable and you can roll without it if you reeeally need those 10 pts elsewhere, but at worst you take an aetherblade so he has 2 specialist weapons and therefore an extra attack. I've seen some people forgo armor since you have a chance to roll it but that is absurd to me.

Yeah that makes no sense to me. You roll all your rewards (re-rolling duplicate results) then you can choose to substitute for the magic weapons. If you get the 3+ armour save when you already have the Demonic Armour, then that's the roll you swap for the Balesword.

I guess CSM nurgle DPs would usually run black mace and a spell familiar.

If you run CD, here's a priority list for your rewards->balesword (from highest to lowest):
3+ armor
Hellfire gaze
Re-roll invulns
Armorbane and fleshbane
+1 wound and IWND
FNP

Also, take a lesser reward for the plague flail, as it's +1 attack for 10 points.

 astro_nomicon wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:
Technically it's a 33% chance to get iron arm with a Nurgle DP due to having to roll at least once on the Nurgle powers table.

Not for DP's from Chaos Daemons codex. The chances to get survivability buffs and the balesword from rewards also makes them a good deal better than CSM DPs.

Correct. I had forgotten to add that I was talking just about CSM Princes. CD Princes don't get the black mace of course, which I find to be horrifically good

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
Nurgle is by far the best. Personally I prefer to take mine from C:CD over CSM, as I like the instant death balesword for dealing with wraith and dread knights.
Black mace would work better as an all rounder, however remember that he cannot sweeping advance, which can be crippling when facing large blobs.

Tzeentch DPs are probably second best right now, but still a long way behind nurgle. Now that psychic powers became harder to cast, and you can cast fewer per turn, they really lost a lot of their bite and utility compared to what they were able to do in 6th. The staff gives them str 8, letting them take down vehicles and some walkers without having to rely on smash, which is nice.

Slaanesh is only really good for using lash, and this was a gimmick even in 6th, when powers were more reliable. You can try to get those str 9 lash shots using iron arm if you like, but if you don't get the power, or don't successfully cast it, then you are paying 300+ points for a few str 6 shots a turn.

Khorne doesn't need discussing. By far the worst option available.

I disagree on the Khorne assessment. 270 points for Wings, Armor, Combat Familiar, and the Axe makes for an Infantry killer, less so than the Mace, but more importantly can help eat any vehicle alive compared to just Smash and hope for the best. Not being able to buy Mastery Levels can hurt, but it wasn't exactly needed anyway.

 Ignatius wrote:
Technically it's a 33% chance to get iron arm with a Nurgle DP due to having to roll at least once on the Nurgle powers table.

Technically, it's 36.(6)%

Anywayz, if you roll on biomancy, even if you don't get iron arm, it has other useful stuff. Or you could go for telepathy. Or even daemonology, eh. It's reasonable with spell familliar and ld9.

If you go CSM, definitely go for a mace. One of the reasons you'd actually consider a CSM daemon prince over CD one.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
Nurgle is by far the best. Personally I prefer to take mine from C:CD over CSM, as I like the instant death balesword for dealing with wraith and dread knights.
Black mace would work better as an all rounder, however remember that he cannot sweeping advance, which can be crippling when facing large blobs.

Tzeentch DPs are probably second best right now, but still a long way behind nurgle. Now that psychic powers became harder to cast, and you can cast fewer per turn, they really lost a lot of their bite and utility compared to what they were able to do in 6th. The staff gives them str 8, letting them take down vehicles and some walkers without having to rely on smash, which is nice.

Slaanesh is only really good for using lash, and this was a gimmick even in 6th, when powers were more reliable. You can try to get those str 9 lash shots using iron arm if you like, but if you don't get the power, or don't successfully cast it, then you are paying 300+ points for a few str 6 shots a turn.

Khorne doesn't need discussing. By far the worst option available.

I disagree on the Khorne assessment. 270 points for Wings, Armor, Combat Familiar, and the Axe makes for an Infantry killer, less so than the Mace, but more importantly can help eat any vehicle alive compared to just Smash and hope for the best. Not being able to buy Mastery Levels can hurt, but it wasn't exactly needed anyway.

CD Khorne DPs are worthless. Every other DP can do what they do but better.

CSM Khorne DPs can get str 8/9, which is good vs vehicles. However they still has the standard khorne problem:

They struggle to have meaningful impact on a game. He is not as survivable as a nurgle DP, so will not be able to hop across the board, yet he does not possess any powerful ranged attack or generate warp charges, so whilst flying is dead weight.

He won't have iron arm or invisibility which would allow him to tank fire or go toe-to-toe with the heavy hitters, and he cannot summon.

They are very 2 dimensional, with no utility and no reliable way to get into assault. Str 8/9 is good, but actually getting to use it is a challenge.

Khorne DPs are not useless.

They may be the least useful of the DP choices available, but as someone who plays against them on a regular basis, I can attest that they are still dangerous.

Comparatively useless.

Your opponent is improving your chances of winning by taking them as opposed to another daemon prince or HQ choice.

A Khorne DP with wings and armour costs 220-270 points. That is a lot for 4 pretty fragile wounds on a melee only model with no shooting/ psychic/buffing capabilities. Personally I would say too much.

To make matters worse for a Khorne DP, a bloothrister does the exact same thing, but better!
A bloodthirster costs 30 more points than a kitted out DP (actually 20, as the BT already has an axe of khorne worth 10 points which all DPs usually take).

So, 30 (20) points more for a bloodthirster gives you +1WS, +5 BS, +1T, +1W +1I and +1 attack.

A BT also benefits from being able to gain a second attack from having 2 cc weapons for only 10 points, and leaves 40 points for 2 greater rewards.

A khorne DP must do choose between having 2 cc weapons, or 2 greater rewards.

The BT is clearly the better choice.

So, while the khorne DP is not 'useless', it is worse than all of its peers in all possible aspects.

This makes it, relatively speaking, a bad choice.

 astro_nomicon wrote:
I'm pretty sure you can choose whether to swoop or glide at the beginning of your movement phase on turn 1, then choose again on turn 2, meaning you can assault on turn 3. Not terrible considering in some deployments that;'s the soonest you'll make it to combat anyways and it gives you hard to hit turn 1

Nope, I'm pretty sure you cant swoop on turn 1. He has to arrive from reserve as a flyer if you want to have him start the game with swoop.

 Sir Arun wrote:

 astro_nomicon wrote:
I'm pretty sure you can choose whether to swoop or glide at the beginning of your movement phase on turn 1, then choose again on turn 2, meaning you can assault on turn 3. Not terrible considering in some deployments that;'s the soonest you'll make it to combat anyways and it gives you hard to hit turn 1

Nope, I'm pretty sure you cant swoop on turn 1. He has to arrive from reserve as a flyer if you want to have him start the game with swoop.

False, your only constraint is to initially deploy him in Gliding mode but nothing prevents you from Swooping or keep Gliding on your turn 1