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My LGS has 3 copies on the shelves. They appear to have a fine layer of dust on them.

I'm not tempted by the Fantasy side nor the price. I'm just hoping GW actually listens and brings back Battlefleet Gothic but who am I? To them I'm just the customer and my opinions obviously don't matter much. It's not like I spent hundreds of dollars on GW specialist games... oh wait, I did! Oh well. Guess I'll just spend my money elsewhere. Spartan Games, FoW and Dust Tactics here I come!

Good luck GW with the whole "limited edition" schtick. I understand that it's sales and everyone is going to market their product to develop a sense of urgency to make that sale... wait a minute, marketing includes advertising... hmm, sorry, I forgot WD was a GW catalog now.

Whether its 100 copies or 100,000 copies if a company says it's "limited edition" there are going to be some people who buy it because it says so. It's up to the consumer, not the seller, to determine if the "limited edition-ness" of an item really makes it more valuable/desirable and puts down that money to buy it. Vote with your cash, people. Money talks, baloney walks!

Maxstreel wrote:My LGS has 3 copies on the shelves. They appear to have a fine layer of dust on them.

I'm not tempted by the Fantasy side nor the price. I'm just hoping GW actually listens and brings back Battlefleet Gothic but who am I? To them I'm just the customer and my opinions obviously don't matter much. It's not like I spent hundreds of dollars on GW specialist games... oh wait, I did! Oh well. Guess I'll just spend my money elsewhere. Spartan Games, FoW and Dust Tactics here I come!

This comment and others which are similar confuse me. How do 'bring back' something that is not gone? You can download the rules for free, or buy the hard copy. The ships are availabale to order on the website. What could possibly prevent you from getting what you need to play the game?

According to G.W B'Ham and Oxford they always have 'the last copy in the store' on their Facebook status.

CptJake wrote:

Maxstreel wrote:My LGS has 3 copies on the shelves. They appear to have a fine layer of dust on them.

I'm not tempted by the Fantasy side nor the price. I'm just hoping GW actually listens and brings back Battlefleet Gothic but who am I? To them I'm just the customer and my opinions obviously don't matter much. It's not like I spent hundreds of dollars on GW specialist games... oh wait, I did! Oh well. Guess I'll just spend my money elsewhere. Spartan Games, FoW and Dust Tactics here I come!

This comment and others which are similar confuse me. How do 'bring back' something that is not gone? You can download the rules for free, or buy the hard copy. The ships are availabale to order on the website. What could possibly prevent you from getting what you need to play the game?

The ships are availible where? Is that for replacement ships?

CptJake wrote:

Maxstreel wrote:My LGS has 3 copies on the shelves. They appear to have a fine layer of dust on them.

I'm not tempted by the Fantasy side nor the price. I'm just hoping GW actually listens and brings back Battlefleet Gothic but who am I? To them I'm just the customer and my opinions obviously don't matter much. It's not like I spent hundreds of dollars on GW specialist games... oh wait, I did! Oh well. Guess I'll just spend my money elsewhere. Spartan Games, FoW and Dust Tactics here I come!

This comment and others which are similar confuse me. How do 'bring back' something that is not gone? You can download the rules for free, or buy the hard copy. The ships are availabale to order on the website. What could possibly prevent you from getting what you need to play the game?

You know exactly what people mean when they say to bring back certain specialist games that are technically still available.

Being available for sale at exorbitant markup prices in a deep dark corner of a single site on the internet is radically diferent to being available through the normal GW distribution network, be it GW stores, online retailers, LGSs, etc!

Perhaps I should've been clearer... support for a game system is different than just downloading the ruleset with no support from the original distributor. PhantomViper is correct: no new ships, no new rules, and existing models that I bought originally very inexpensively going at exorbitant ebay prices.

WOTR is a perfect example. A great idea (in my opinion) to get more interest in what many gamers wanted from LOTR: big battles, not skirmish level stuff. The main rulebook comes out and then a supplement with some additional rules... then silence. Interest was out there (look to the LOTR bubble the CEO blamed lack of sales on a few years back) but once the GW stopped supporting it, no redshirts or blackshirts supporting it, good luck finding players much less GW stores or LGS's pushing it along. I can't blame LGS's. They have to push product that sells, whether it's minis, Magic, comics, etc.

So back on topic: Dreadfleet. Nice idea. What about future support? I'm not holding my breath. So I'll put my money where I get the most enjoyment in other game systems.

Melkhiordarkblade wrote:

CptJake wrote:

Maxstreel wrote:My LGS has 3 copies on the shelves. They appear to have a fine layer of dust on them.

I'm not tempted by the Fantasy side nor the price. I'm just hoping GW actually listens and brings back Battlefleet Gothic but who am I? To them I'm just the customer and my opinions obviously don't matter much. It's not like I spent hundreds of dollars on GW specialist games... oh wait, I did! Oh well. Guess I'll just spend my money elsewhere. Spartan Games, FoW and Dust Tactics here I come!

This comment and others which are similar confuse me. How do 'bring back' something that is not gone? You can download the rules for free, or buy the hard copy. The ships are availabale to order on the website. What could possibly prevent you from getting what you need to play the game?

The ships are availible where? Is that for replacement ships?

GW Website seems to have a bunch of BFG shios you can buy.

PhantomViper wrote:

CptJake wrote:

Maxstreel wrote:My LGS has 3 copies on the shelves. They appear to have a fine layer of dust on them.

I'm not tempted by the Fantasy side nor the price. I'm just hoping GW actually listens and brings back Battlefleet Gothic but who am I? To them I'm just the customer and my opinions obviously don't matter much. It's not like I spent hundreds of dollars on GW specialist games... oh wait, I did! Oh well. Guess I'll just spend my money elsewhere. Spartan Games, FoW and Dust Tactics here I come!

This comment and others which are similar confuse me. How do 'bring back' something that is not gone? You can download the rules for free, or buy the hard copy. The ships are availabale to order on the website. What could possibly prevent you from getting what you need to play the game?

You know exactly what people mean when they say to bring back certain specialist games that are technically still available.

Being available for sale at exorbitant markup prices in a deep dark corner of a single site on the internet is radically diferent to being available through the normal GW distribution network, be it GW stores, online retailers, LGSs, etc!

The game and the figures are readily available on the GW site. Period. There is NO reason someone can't get what they need to play the game. Again, pretty hard to 'bring back' something that is not gone. Do they still make new stuff for it? Nope. Does that mean you can't get what there is for it? Nope. I'm pretty sure internet stores like The Warstore would be happy to get them for you if you can't bring your self to do it on the GW web page.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Maxstreel wrote:Perhaps I should've been clearer... support for a game system is different than just downloading the ruleset with no support from the original distributor. PhantomViper is correct: no new ships, no new rules, and existing models that I bought originally very inexpensively going at exorbitant ebay prices.

WOTR is a perfect example. A great idea (in my opinion) to get more interest in what many gamers wanted from LOTR: big battles, not skirmish level stuff. The main rulebook comes out and then a supplement with some additional rules... then silence. Interest was out there (look to the LOTR bubble the CEO blamed lack of sales on a few years back) but once the GW stopped supporting it, no redshirts or blackshirts supporting it, good luck finding players much less GW stores or LGS's pushing it along. I can't blame LGS's. They have to push product that sells, whether it's minis, Magic, comics, etc.

So back on topic: Dreadfleet. Nice idea. What about future support? I'm not holding my breath. So I'll put my money where I get the most enjoyment in other game systems.

Of course there will not be future support. Why should there be? It is a complete 'game in a box' that GW said was not going to be expanded. You either like that, or you don't. But to make comments about 'not holding your breath' waiting for expansions to a one off game is just silly. About as silly as complaining about "lack of support from the original distributor' of BFG, who not only still sells everything you need for the game, but also made the rules available for free. That could be considered pretty good support for a game they no longer are expanding.

CptJake wrote:
The game and the figures are readily available on the GW site. Period. There is NO reason someone can't get what they need to play the game. Again, pretty hard to 'bring back' something that is not gone. Do they still make new stuff for it? Nope. Does that mean you can't get what there is for it? Nope. I'm pretty sure internet stores like The Warstore would be happy to get them for you if you can't bring your self to do it on the GW web page.

You wan't to keep playing this game, fine.

I don't need more BFG stuff, I already have all I need for it and still play it on a semi-regular basis, but just to enlighten possible newer players, I tried to find BFG in The Warstore, but I couldn't even find any mention of it, care to say how I (or anyone else) can order it through TheWarstore with their regular discount?

Dead miniatures games are dead miniatures games; once support, new models and/or rules dry up, the flow stops, much as Phantomviper says. I still have my old Raven figures, and I know people with extensive Warzone collections, but it just isn't the same as a supported line.

PhantomViper wrote:

CptJake wrote:
The game and the figures are readily available on the GW site. Period. There is NO reason someone can't get what they need to play the game. Again, pretty hard to 'bring back' something that is not gone. Do they still make new stuff for it? Nope. Does that mean you can't get what there is for it? Nope. I'm pretty sure internet stores like The Warstore would be happy to get them for you if you can't bring your self to do it on the GW web page.

You wan't to keep playing this game, fine.

I don't need more BFG stuff, I already have all I need for it and still play it on a semi-regular basis, but just to enlighten possible newer players, I tried to find BFG in The Warstore, but I couldn't even find any mention of it, care to say how I (or anyone else) can order it through TheWarstore with their regular discount?

I'm guessing the same way you can order any GW products since they don't have an online cart for GW stuff. Email them. I'm not sure they can offer the discount on specialst games, you would have to ask.

I heard some time ago that apparently GW were considering completely binning the entire Specialist games range. This was after the likes of Epic and Blood Bowl had been removed from sale in shop and went to direct order only. However, bless his cotton socks, Jervis Johnson offered to take stewardship under his wing entirely in addition to the responsibilities that he already has at the company. So, we might well have had no specialist games at all (even in vastly reduced form) had it not been for him.

However, short of just saying "you can't buy these" GW have tried to get as close to that definition as possible. Anyone who remembers the time (not all that long ago) when Specialist games went on a rotating basis of support in the stores will know what it means to have support for a system beyond just selling it through some dusty corner of the website.

This means:
- Selling the games in store, with physical product available to purchase. It wouldn't have to be a massive amount, just the core releases and some blister packs of more popular products.
- Features and hobby articles on the games in WD magazines.
- Allow playing of said games in GW. Not only are there no promotional games, weekend events, or hobby events (at both local and national level) but the playing of these games is specifically banned by company policy in store. I don't know how you can have any more of an obvious indicator than that, that the Specialist games are not supported. I can understand why GW have done this - back when I was a staffer, it was amazing how many younger players would pick up the 'classics' (the likes of BB and Necromunda) simply because they were so much fun, and you can enjoy a standard game without spending hundreds of dollars.
- The occasional website feature or hobby article online.

Any of these steps would help to get new blood into the games. And not only that, but probably other GW stuff as well. I would have to say that GW is hurting itself by not having a lower price option available for people to get into the games and the Specialist games would be perfect for that.

So, there is 'support' and then there is 'support'. The fact that there are so many fan run websites and 3rd party manufacturers of GW specialist range is further evidence of the fact that all of them are treated like GW's embarrassing Uncle, the one who gets inebriated at family get togethers and then launches into a massive tirade before collapsing in a drunken heap on the ground.

Pacific wrote:So, there is 'support' and then there is 'support'. The fact that there are so many fan run websites and 3rd party manufacturers of GW specialist range is further evidence of the fact that all of them are treated like GW's embarrassing Uncle, the one who gets inebriated at family get togethers and then launches into a massive tirade before collapsing in a drunken heap on the ground.

So how do you explain 40k and Warhammer fan sites and 3rd party manufacturers?

Nope. Sticking to my 40K, thanks.

Neat models, just horribly overpriced. There's a million naval games out there. I see no reason to buy one from GW.

I bought the Black Kraken as bits, on eBay. Some people want £20 for it, others only £5, both on the sprue.

Using this:



as this:



Dystopian Wars, Empire of the Blazing Suns: Mechanical Ika.

Both models are very similar in proportion. I am filing away the Chaos Dwarf helm icon and replacing it with a Japanese red sun.

You're not the only one, Orlanth! A local EotBS player in my DW group is doing the same thing . I'm pretty happy with my Dreadfleet purchase, as there was a lot in the box for the money, and the miniatures are really nice. That being said, I bought it knowing that I would end up using a lot of the components for other games or as display pieces.

I too would love to see a revival of Battlefleet Gothic;

@CptJake: I'm afraid that I, too, have to disagree with you on the BFG issue. As much as I love the game, there is no doubt in my mind that it is being hurt by a lack of official new models, rules updates, and expansions. At one point, BFG was one of GW's primary games, with its own magazine and frequent releases. Those of use that want to see the game "brought back" would like to see it restored to some semblance of that former glory...

CptJake wrote:

Pacific wrote:So, there is 'support' and then there is 'support'. The fact that there are so many fan run websites and 3rd party manufacturers of GW specialist range is further evidence of the fact that all of them are treated like GW's embarrassing Uncle, the one who gets inebriated at family get togethers and then launches into a massive tirade before collapsing in a drunken heap on the ground.

So how do you explain 40k and Warhammer fan sites and 3rd party manufacturers?

Well, the point I was trying to make was that those Specialist games sites survive, and help perpetuate those games, despite GW not because of them.

My other points still stand however.

Ruckdog wrote:At one point, BFG was one of GW's primary games, with its own magazine and frequent releases. Those of use that want to see the game "brought back" would like to see it restored to some semblance of that former glory...

I'm afraid that's not true. All the Specialist Games had their own magazine, Necromunda even had two incarnations (Gang War and Necromunda Magazine). According to blongbling on Warseer (who was the head of European Sales or something like that IIRC) Epic 40k was the strongest performance for an SG which peaked at 4% of GW sales in it's launch year and then dropped to 1%.

Bottom line, for a company of GW's size SG have never produced the returns they require to justify resourcing them, and expecting new models and expansions is even less realistic for that reason.

They'd make a great line for a small company to maintain*, but apparently GW has rebuffed any attempts to license them so far.

*Or perhaps FW, but FW can't even maintain updates to their existing army lists at the moment, so I don't think they can resource it on their current staff.

Those of use that want to see the game "brought back" would like to see it restored to some semblance of that former glory...

I think that there is someone saying the same thing about most any game. I have people come in the store and vent on a regular basis about why their favorite game isn't like it was in the old days: DnD, 2ndEdDnD, 3.5DnD,Runequest,Dragonquest,CoC,Champions.all of White Wolf, Ogre,CarWars,Battletech, All GW specialist Games, WFB 6th and 7th, Rogue Trader 40k, Warzone, .............I tell them the same thing: Start up a group, run a league, put some work in to get it going. Doesn't happen much. They all want me to do the work, so they can play.

Even if GW gave the game support, it's still going to greatly depend on your local community. If they're of playing 40k or Warmachine, they may not go back to BFG reguardless of what GW does. I'd recommend that people wanting to play a certain game put in the work to start their own leagues and groups, and not wait on GW to jump start things. You may be waiting for years.

Baragash wrote:
I'm afraid that's not true. All the Specialist Games had their own magazine, Necromunda even had two incarnations (Gang War and Necromunda Magazine). According to blongbling on Warseer (who was the head of European Sales or something like that IIRC) Epic 40k was the strongest performance for an SG which peaked at 4% of GW sales in it's launch year and then dropped to 1%.

Where did you get those numbers from? I have serious doubts that any of the bigger SG (Mordheim, BFG and Epic) made that little impact on GW sales on their release years and besides, GW never released any sales numbers on any of their product line, let alone before they wen't public and had no legal obligation to release any values whatsoever!

PhantomViper wrote:

Baragash wrote:
I'm afraid that's not true. All the Specialist Games had their own magazine, Necromunda even had two incarnations (Gang War and Necromunda Magazine). According to blongbling on Warseer (who was the head of European Sales or something like that IIRC) Epic 40k was the strongest performance for an SG which peaked at 4% of GW sales in it's launch year and then dropped to 1%.

Where did you get those numbers from? I have serious doubts that any of the bigger SG (Mordheim, BFG and Epic) made that little impact on GW sales on their release years and besides, GW never released any sales numbers on any of their product line, let alone before they wen't public and had no legal obligation to release any values whatsoever!

Sorry, didn't notice that...

So basically, that most trusted of sources: "some guy on the internet told them to me"...

I would, but it is rediculously over priced, even for GW. If they dropped the price I might think about it. Or they could just make Battlefleet Gothic more readily available....

Ok I managed to see the thing on my hands and I have to say something here... some of the best fine detailed plastics from GW there... lots of micro detailed cool sprues...
Now I think GW MISSED THE BOAT!... on the dreadfleet sprues I noticed some really tiny 15mm caravels and boats and those are just the perfect scale and detail for a MASSSIVE naval game... I mean if they ditched the fugly big boats and did big armadas for all races in that scale I would buy it in a second!

So yeah this could have been something memorable.

mikhaila wrote:Those of use that want to see the game "brought back" would like to see it restored to some semblance of that former glory...

I think that there is someone saying the same thing about most any game. I have people come in the store and vent on a regular basis about why their favorite game isn't like it was in the old days: DnD, 2ndEdDnD, 3.5DnD,Runequest,Dragonquest,CoC,Champions.all of White Wolf, Ogre,CarWars,Battletech, All GW specialist Games, WFB 6th and 7th, Rogue Trader 40k, Warzone, .............I tell them the same thing: Start up a group, run a league, put some work in to get it going. Doesn't happen much. They all want me to do the work, so they can play.

Even if GW gave the game support, it's still going to greatly depend on your local community. If they're of playing 40k or Warmachine, they may not go back to BFG reguardless of what GW does. I'd recommend that people wanting to play a certain game put in the work to start their own leagues and groups, and not wait on GW to jump start things. You may be waiting for years.

Oh, I definitely agree . I just contributed a segment to the Black Ocean podcast on this very topic, as I've found myself in the position of having to organize a group for a game I'm fond of several times. I have discovered, though, that the process is much more difficult for games that are older or have a lack of new releases. Unfortunately, BFG is in a position where both of those apply .

I think the only real reason why its not selling particularly well is because no one knew anything about it two bloody weeks before launch.

I mean christ, people need to save up money to afford it. Two weeks notice leaves very little room for the consumer to get excited over the product being offered and offers no breathing room for retailers to hype up the game.

The stories about stores having to open their copies the morning of release is just nuts as well. How can you entice people to play it, if your own employees don't know whats going on with it.

It doesn't even look bad, quite fun actually, but how on earth can you expect people to buy something with almost no information given?

PhantomViper wrote:Sorry, didn't notice that...

So basically, that most trusted of sources: "some guy on the internet told them to me"...

*shrugs* What you do with the information is up to you, if you can't be bothered to go and investigate the information and it's potential truth, who loses out?

PhantomViper wrote:Sorry, didn't notice that...

So basically, that most trusted of sources: "some guy on the internet told them to me"...

Well, no. "Blongbling" has a good track record and a good reputation. As with "Harry" and others, he is more than just "some guy on the internet", he's actually "some guy on the internet who has a good track record of telling the truth". If someone has a good record of telling the truth where it has been able to be verified makes it worth listening to them on those occasions when it can't be verified by other sources.

I'm not a credulous person, and I generally take everything I read in t'internet with a dose of salt, but sometimes its worth taking a smaller dose than others.

If you're skeptical about the value of bloingbling's statements, then you are at total liberty to pop over to Warseer and read what he has posted himself over the years.(http://www.warseer.com/forums/search.php?searchid=3002358). Once you have done that then your opinion as to the worthiness of his statements may be worth something itself. Until then your opinion of their reliability or otherwise is just that of "some guy on the internet"....

I'm not busting your bones about this, but the standard "internet skeptic" point of view tends to irritate me unduly. At some point, actually, sometimes, some guys say some things on the internet that it *is* worth listening to. Disbelieving *everything* simply on principle and demanding proof as if you have some sort of right to it just seems a pretty arrogant stance to take, to me.

And to get back to the original topic, my local store still has on display the 4 copies he had on display on 1st Oct, they're priced at £64 which is in line with his usual 10% discount. Whether they are selling generally, I haven't a clue. They aren't selling on my local High Street, that's for certain. On my part, if the price comes down to £40 or so I'd likely get a copy, but given the style of play the reviewers indicate (highly random, can take a long time to resolve) I can't see myself paying the full asking for it, particularly as the ships seem pretty fiddly to paint. On the other hand the islands (de-skullified) and wreckage would do double-bubble for Uncharted Seas/Dystopian wars, so I may get a discounted sprue of them off ebay at some point.