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 ImAGeek wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

Chikout wrote:
Saw this pic on Twitter. Sorry if it has already been shared. It looks like the arms, the shoulder guard, the chest plate, the items hanging from his belt, the head, and the Mohawk are all seperate pieces. This should allow for a decent amount of customisation with these plastics.

The Goliath looks like he could be similar to the genestealer cults and skitarii kits. Torsos and legs are not interchangeable, but heads and arms are. The Escher with the pistol smacks of monopose though. Her torso is angled too realistically as she raises her arm to be anything but monopose.

I'm guessing that like other GW starters, we'll see monopose minis in the box, then multipose kits released afterwards.

So then why are they showing us multipose stuff for one gang and monopose stuff for another when both are in the starter? Plus they've already said the kits are multipose with lots of options. I would be willing to bet that the gangs in the starter are the same multipose kits that will be released later separately (the blood Bowl starter teams are the same as released later separately too). Plus, Necromunda needs options really.

Where did they "multipose"? I only saw them refer to them as "multipart" which is not the same thing. Some of the pieces look like they only fit one way, like the Sisters of Silence kit. I think many people are setting themselves up for disappointment when all implication is that there are a bunch of optional parts that ultimate fit one way, without modification.

 aka_mythos wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

Chikout wrote:
Saw this pic on Twitter. Sorry if it has already been shared. It looks like the arms, the shoulder guard, the chest plate, the items hanging from his belt, the head, and the Mohawk are all seperate pieces. This should allow for a decent amount of customisation with these plastics.

The Goliath looks like he could be similar to the genestealer cults and skitarii kits. Torsos and legs are not interchangeable, but heads and arms are. The Escher with the pistol smacks of monopose though. Her torso is angled too realistically as she raises her arm to be anything but monopose.

I'm guessing that like other GW starters, we'll see monopose minis in the box, then multipose kits released afterwards.

So then why are they showing us multipose stuff for one gang and monopose stuff for another when both are in the starter? Plus they've already said the kits are multipose with lots of options. I would be willing to bet that the gangs in the starter are the same multipose kits that will be released later separately (the blood Bowl starter teams are the same as released later separately too). Plus, Necromunda needs options really.

Where did they "multipose"? I only saw them refer to them as "multipart" which is not the same thing. Some of the pieces look like they only fit one way, like the Sisters of Silence kit. I think many people are setting themselves up for disappointment when all implication is that there are a bunch of optional parts that ultimate fit one way, without modification.

Yeah, right now it's better to assume that the options really are weapon swaps and posability is minimal. The Escher with the pistol may have a different pistol hand or complete arm, or a pointing sword or however many other options GW puts on the sprue, but the walking, pointing arm foward pose isn't going to change.

Real posability like Marines doesn't work with so much exposed skin. They tried and failed with Catachans and Marauders. I would expect something along the lines of Witch Elves instead.

They look as customizable as the Genestealer hybrids to me

Tetsu0 wrote:
People complaining about scale change will look silly when more of the models come out and you realize your concerns are unfounded. Even more silly than they look now.

I really hope you're right!

So far we've seen 2 basic bodies for each of the 2 gangs... with Goliath its a bunch of different weapons that rely on the exact same distant between wrists making use of what so far appears to be fixed posed arms, with only one arm that appears to be a separate piece; we've seen 3 heads and a bunch of different little bits for them.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
Oh that, can they just retire him and never ever use his art as inspiration ever again? his vision is what ruined the elegance of 40k and turned it into the "grimdark" visual waste it is today.

While I'm not a big fan of Blanche, he was there since the beginning of the game and his drawings were part of the basis of the 40K universe from the days of Rogue Trader. I don't think you can say he turned 40K from "elegance" to "grimdark". It was always "grimdark".

 Papa-Schlumpf wrote:
Noob question: Can I also use a Dark Eldar gang to play?

That would be unlikely.

The original Necromunda included very basic rules for including a small range of aliens for scenarios, but they weren't really set up for use as a normal gang.

Imagine a Necromunda style game set in Commoragh...

 aka_mythos wrote:
So far we've seen 2 basic bodies for each of the 2 gangs... with Goliath its a bunch of different weapons that rely on the exact same distant between wrists making use of what so far appears to be fixed posed arms, with only one arm that appears to be a separate piece; we've seen 3 heads and a bunch of different little bits for them.

I'd rather have less poses and more weapon options, weapon swaps would be fairly easy with sockets. Having enough alternative heads, helmets and other extra parts has worked to differentiate hundreds of space marines.

Yodhrin wrote:This is becoming frustrating, because every time someone makes this error there's a chance you could put off a potential player

That's GW's problem both to create and to solve. If they didn't want people wondering about scale and whether these will work with existing GW miniatures (be it old necromunda stuff or current GW plastics) they could have addressed that in the warhammer community site by 1) a comparison shot 2) not leading with the minaitures they did or 3) directly addressing it with text. Or GW might be intentionally trying to make them look as large as possible because they think that's awesome. Maybe GW wants people to finish reading the article with a sense that the miniatures are big?

Tetsu0 wrote:People complaining about scale change will look silly when more of the models come out and you realize your concerns are unfounded. Even more silly than they look now.

It doesn't actually matter if you think someone's concerns are silly. The end result is that people seeing the new miniature pictures are going "this doesn't look right." And when it comes to marketing, that's not on the viewer but on the marketer. Just like the purple skin making people be uncertain about whether the miniature is nice or not. Yep, it's entirely an aesthetic reaction.

Weve only seen 4 models and the two goliaths don't look out of scale, the only one people seem concerned with are the TWO models that are in HIGH HEELS. You think someone in high heel platform boots should be the same height as someone not on platforms?

I think it's a bad idea to market a game with miniatures that look off for any reason given how visually oriented a lot of potential customers are.

End result: me excited about necromunda coming back has turned into wait and see based on the miniatures shown so far. And I'm not alone. It doesn't matter how "silly" or "frustrating" or whatever anyone thinks that is. My guess is that GW wants people to think they're really huge. That the platform shoe miniature is supposed to be towering and the vat grown goliaths are supposed to be huge. So it's only natural that some portion of the potential customer base is going to see that and go "they may have gone too far."

It also doesn't really matter if you pull out digital calipers and then compensate for posing and declare they are a match for current GW plastics. Miniatures for a lot of people are about what feels right when they look at it. And if it feels off to them, then it's off.

People just took this idea and ran with it for miles not realizing that they don't have real evidence of a scale change. But contentious discontents will just be contentious discontents. If it wasn't this they'd find something else to be unhappy about.

Given that I returned to 40k after a decade or so and am super excited about inq28, SWA and necromunda, I must be a contentious discontent. It couldn't possibly be that people are expressing an honest aesthetic reaction to the preview pictures?

I will be very happy if as more pictures come out the figures look like they will be compatible in terms of conversions with other GW kit parts. But let's not pretend people are expressing concern out of some sort of character flaw. That's just immature.

The reason people are having concerns is that the images GW showed are causing them.

Tetsu0 wrote:
People complaining about scale change will look silly when more of the models come out and you realize your concerns are unfounded.

And when those models are shown to be demonstrably larger and out of scale with the previous metals, presumably, you'll post a video of you literally eating your words or making some other ridiculous penance for trying to minimize the legitimate concerns of those who previously bought and own the 1st gen Necromunda models.

I use different sized models as people come in different sizes

 insaniak wrote:

 Papa-Schlumpf wrote:
Noob question: Can I also use a Dark Eldar gang to play?

That would be unlikely.

The original Necromunda included very basic rules for including a small range of aliens for scenarios, but they weren't really set up for use as a normal gang.

I'm sure people will come up with ways to integrate Necromunda and SW:A quickly enough.

 Breotan wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 Papa-Schlumpf wrote:
Noob question: Can I also use a Dark Eldar gang to play?

That would be unlikely.

The original Necromunda included very basic rules for including a small range of aliens for scenarios, but they weren't really set up for use as a normal gang.

I'm sure people will come up with ways to integrate Necromunda and SW:A quickly enough.

I was going to use some of the dark elder to make my own Spryer gang.

Will there be ripperjacks again?

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

Tetsu0 wrote:
People complaining about scale change will look silly when more of the models come out and you realize your concerns are unfounded.

And when those models are shown to be demonstrably larger and out of scale with the previous metals, presumably, you'll post a video of you literally eating your words or making some other ridiculous penance for trying to minimize the legitimate concerns of those who previously bought and own the 1st gen Necromunda models.

You are aware that no one is arguing the new minis are the same size as the metal minis? We're arguing they're the same size as modern human-sized minis.

Also @Chamberlain "scale" issues aside, I can't see how anyone can say these minis don't look gorgeous, especially when you see the bare plastic images that haven't been given that janky 'Eavy Metal paint job (Does GW seriously not realize how badly the current painting style distorts the model details?)

I have a 22-year-old Necro gang and I have absolutely no expectation that new shiny 2017 models would be at all beholden to old-enough-to-drink metal models in any way.

But that's me, I guess. Long live the new plastic!

I have a large necromunda collection myself. The idea that these would be larger to the point where they don't look right on the table next to the old models is not a concern for me.

There's been a small scale creep since 2nd edition till now in 40k. Which you have to at least account for, and is virtually negligible for me and I suspect other reasonable minded people. Note that primaris marines are an entirely conscious effort to scale up.

You really can't expect GW to go and match the 2nd edition metal figures exact scale. They are going to be in scale with current 40k humans and such.

So you would have to say you are not okay with how 2nd edition models look mixed with current edition models.

Also, I play Infinity, where they basically choose the model's size at a whim, it seems.

I can say from that experience that, as long as the models all look good, a 5mm-ish difference or whatever seems huge in front of my face or on a screen, yet is barely even noticeable on the battlefield.

So mainly my only concern these days is "does it look cool?"

Tetsu0 wrote:

So you would have to say you are not okay with how 2nd edition models look mixed with current edition models.

Semantics, really. The simple fact is that GW scaling has always been a bit hit and miss, but there's been a rather noticeable increase in size over the years, with the common theory being that it was to allow for more detail. It's frustrating for those of us that actually prefer things to be in scale, though, partly because it looks better when things are in scale, and partly because in a game that has rules that rely on the physical dimensions of the models, scale matters.

There was never any actual demonstrated need for GW to increase the size of their models, and lacking that, some people are going to see it as unnecessary and annoying.

 faeslayer wrote:
Also, I play Infinity, where they basically choose the model's size at a whim, it seems.

Funnily enough, I was all set to jump into Infinity when Icestorm was released... but IIRC that was about when new sculpts started showing up head-and-shoulders taller then the previous iterations, and that killed my interest.



Still, while I'll likely stick with the older models (or conversions of Kev White iKore sculpts) for my Eschers, it will be interesting to see what the other gangs look like, as I can probably deal with the scale differences for fleshing out the gangs that I don't have yet.

I never get this line of thinking.
"Wow, you made the models look better! How DARE you! Now my old ones look bad by comparison!"

Well. It's still a superior product. I say this for example, as someone who had a lot of Infinity. The new models are even more gorgeous, and slightly larger. Quite frankly, that's fine. They still fit in together at tabletop scale, and it works.

As for these necromunda models, they're fine. Goliath looks way cooler than before, and the Escher models are wearing huge heels and big hair anyway... even then, it's at most a 5-10% growth, well within human size differences.

Remember, abominations like the old Catachans are the old scale, and we should be glad to move away from that trash.

 Killionaire wrote:
I never get this line of thinking.
"Wow, you made the models look better! How DARE you! Now my old ones look bad by comparison!"

I'm not surprised, since nobody has said that.

Remember, abominations like the old Catachans are the old scale, and we should be glad to move away from that trash.

That's a result of bad sculpting, not scale. The Catachan heavy weapons and command models are proof that GW could sculpt decent-looking plastic Catachans in the existing scale.

 insaniak wrote:

 Killionaire wrote:
I never get this line of thinking.
"Wow, you made the models look better! How DARE you! Now my old ones look bad by comparison!"

I'm not surprised, since nobody has said that.

Remember, abominations like the old Catachans are the old scale, and we should be glad to move away from that trash.

That's a result of bad sculpting, not scale. The Catachan heavy weapons and command models are proof that GW could sculpt decent-looking plastic Catachans in the existing scale.

What, these guys? They still look like butt. Because the proportions are 80s heroic, a style that really looks terrible with modern techniques. Remember, Painting's come a long way too in methods and tools.

 Killionaire wrote:

What, these guys? They still look like butt. Because the proportions are 80s heroic, a style that really looks terrible with modern techniques. Remember, Painting's come a long way too in methods and tools.

GW models are still 'heroic' scaled. The only thing that would be different if they made those Catachans today is that they would be bigger. And probably in fewer parts.

 krazynadechukr wrote:
Will there be ripperjacks again?

I hope so. I still have an old unopened pack, lol.

 Killionaire wrote:
Remember, abominations like the old Catachans are the old scale, and we should be glad to move away from that trash.

\

They really aren't at all the same scale as Necromunda. The plastic catachans and cadians represent a bit of scale creep that happened around the time of 3rd edition. Even plastic Cadians (that arent' as exagerated) are notably thicker and taller than Necromunda humans.

Original Necromunda figures are more in scale with 2ndEd/RT figures and necro figs were sculted a bit more slender even than many of those.

BigDaddio wrote:

 krazynadechukr wrote:
Will there be ripperjacks again?

I hope so. I still have an old unopened pack, lol.

Can I buy it from you?

Tetsu0 wrote:
So you would have to say you are not okay with how 2nd edition models look mixed with current edition models.

I, for one, am OK how 2E "human-sized" minis look with other 2E "human-sized" minis (e.g. Eldar, Guard, Necromunda). I am OK with how they look with the 3E Orks and 3E Space Marines.

I am not OK with how the 2E humans look with the giant plastic infantry.

Those 2nd ed models are literally 20 years old. They're utterly irrelevant to how any modern model should look. That's a completely nonsensical argument against this, when these look better than literally any human that GW's made previously. Just because your model is literally 1mm shorter than a new one in a more upright pose, has nothing to do with the validity of your old models or not.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

I, for one, am OK how 2E "human-sized" minis look with other 2E "human-sized" minis (e.g. Eldar, Guard, Necromunda). I am OK with how they look with the 3E Orks and 3E Space Marines.

Psst! Elder aren't "human-sized". In fact it would be best to think of early 40K more like Matchbox or Hot Wheels cars--box scale* rather than scale models. It's important to remember 40K has never been naked as a scale game and even if one wanted to believe there was a 1:1 figure to ground scale then it was the humans that were always far too large. Rogue Trader pretty much quashes the idea of that though.

Can't have scale creep if you don't have a scale.