Switch Theme:

Codex Dark Angels! Preorder 9th Dec!  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in es
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets




Vigo. Spain.

 cuda1179 wrote:
I'm less interested in the codex being a tournament dominator than if it is fun, flexible, and adequately playable. It is all three of those things. It's strong enough that you won't expect to loose every game, and has a bunch of unique toys and combos to keep things fresh.

That being said, how about we all calm down about the power level until people start having real world experience with it. Maybe the whole is greater than the some of the parts, especially after some meta shifts in the not too distant future.


Na man Bobafett012 formed his opinion even before reading any reviews. That obviously means he had access to the Codex before anyone else and has have time to do all the math and theoryhammer that is needed. This codex just suck more than a Banana Split without bananas.

Now, I'm in the same boat as you. If my codex is mid-tier but with good internal balance, thats good enough for me.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Again I just don't see how this book is weaker than codex SM. Yes it's entirely possible for it to still be a mediocre book, because SM are generally bad right now, outside Robby G focused builds. They don't have a primarch equivelent but beyond that I do see a general improvement over the normal SM codex at every level. What do they lack that normal SM have?

I don't think we will get a good SM codex till the adjust base pricing of SM tacticals/scouts, but that'll be a while it seems.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/12 22:30:12


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Denison, Iowa

No kidding. For every different type of viable build in the vanilla marine codex, it looks like you can build two with DA. Not saying it will be the best build, but it can work.

Land speeder HQ's and heavies are a theme totally missing from the vanilla dex.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Steelcity

SilverAlien wrote:
Again I just don't see how this book is weaker than codex SM. Yes it's entirely possible for it to still be a mediocre book, because SM are generally bad right now, outside Robby G focused builds. They don't have a primarch equivelent but beyond that I do see a general improvement over the normal SM codex at every level. What do they lack that normal SM have?

I don't think we will get a good SM codex till the adjust base pricing of SM tacticals/scouts, but that'll be a while it seems.


More like it'll never happen. It took GW a decade to even give marines boltpistols and then to reduce tactical squads by 2 pts a model but no other improvements.

Keeper of the DomBox
Warhammer Armies - Click to see galleries of fully painted armies
32,000, 19,000, Renegades - 10,000 , 7,500,  
   
Made in us
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





I know the "Well, actually" crowd will say that White Scars weren't all about the bikes,but current codex does nothing to support my bike heavy list. I've been run ing Salamanders tactics for the time being, but at least DA give a unique build to their bikes. Might borrow their rules for a game to see how they play.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




For those worried about building competitive lists, as others have already mentioned, the Azrael parking lot is an obvious face-beating option. It got weaker in many respects with the 4++ bubble Nerf, but it also got more powerful with the plasma strat. Parking lot plus scout screens equals success!

I'm pretty sure we'll have some viable builds involving Inceptors, Black Knights, DWK, Belial, Sammael, etc. This is not a bad codex. It may not boast the all out ball-smashing raw power that tournament junkies crave, but it'll provide some potent options.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




MilkmanAl wrote:
For those worried about building competitive lists, as others have already mentioned, the Azrael parking lot is an obvious face-beating option. It got weaker in many respects with the 4++ bubble Nerf, but it also got more powerful with the plasma strat. Parking lot plus scout screens equals success!


The issue with that is, it's much easier to fit a bunch of tanks in that bubble since you only need a tiny corner in the bubble since it only protects models, not units.
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Parking Lot is also only good in the Eternal War missions in the rulebook.
Anyone playing Maelstrom of War or the missions from CA will see it fail over and over due to lack of ability to get objectives mid game.
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran




Azreal parking lot is good (despite obvious drawbacks if you literally bring nothing mobile), but I think the Guilliman gun castle still edges it out.

A straight up shoot-out between Guilliman and Azrael with otherwise mostly identical shooty units would probably still go to Guilliman on average rolls.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I actually think a ravenwing "parking lot" might have some success oddly enough. You have slightly better buffs over normal parking lot judging by those ravenwing LT abilities, access to the more versatile fliers, and all your buff bots have above average firepower as well. Plus you have more flexibility to break away and enjoy the extra mobility/hard to hit. Ravenwing in general just looks very solid, and I think a unit of black knights will be common.

Deathwing looks viable in small doses, but I can't see people taking more than 1-2 units, and at 2 units it's like be one of knights and one of normal.

Greenwing I'm unsure of. It wants to be the core of the army, but I think ravenwing might overall be better for everything but just boots on the ground. Azreal does look good still, but mainly for bolstering the screen or protect a unit of plasma devs/hellblasters, I think sammael and the deathshroud (plus one of the LT variants) are going to take over his main niche post nerf.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/13 08:30:26


 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Sunny Side Up wrote:
Azreal parking lot is good (despite obvious drawbacks if you literally bring nothing mobile), but I think the Guilliman gun castle still edges it out.

A straight up shoot-out between Guilliman and Azrael with otherwise mostly identical shooty units would probably still go to Guilliman on average rolls.


Does it?
Azrael brings 4++ and reroll failed hit rolls.
Azrael is cheaper so you can have a Lt for re roll 1s to wound and a Dark Shroud for -1 to hit without losing too much in the way of "Work" models.

Gulliman brings reroll all failed hit and wound.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/13 12:39:35


 
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran




LEJ wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
Azreal parking lot is good (despite obvious drawbacks if you literally bring nothing mobile), but I think the Guilliman gun castle still edges it out.

A straight up shoot-out between Guilliman and Azrael with otherwise mostly identical shooty units would probably still go to Guilliman on average rolls.


Does it?
Azrael brings 4++ and reroll failed hit rolls.
Azrael is cheaper so you can have a Lt for re roll 1s to wound and a Dark Shroud for -1 to hit without losing too much in the way of "Work" models.

Gulliman brings reroll all failed hit and wound.


Well, as I said, it's not like it couldn't go the other way. Guilliman usually brings Tigurius for the extra-1 on a key thing at least (say .. a Stromraven).

The 4++ is nice, but now a little bit less so as it no longer applies to tanks and you really need to cramp models (not units) into that bubble.

But most of all, re-roll ALL failed to wound is so stupendously powerful, more so than the re-roll failed to hit with the way re-rolls before modifiers work in 8th, yet doesn't apply to wound rolls which aren't fixed like hit rolls and still work on comparing Str. vs. T, similar to 7th edition (even if the comparison chart changed).

It's the main reason the effectiveness of more mid-tier str., high RoF weapons goes up so insanely with Guilliman. It's much less of an issue with, to pick the typical example, those Assault Cannon Razorbacks, to shoot at tanks or Primarch, etc. and wound on 5+, if you get to re-roll the 1s to 4s. If it'd be a mirror-match Assault Cannon Razorback/Stormraven shootout (probably not the best choice for the DA, I know), both sides would be wounding each other on 5+, with Guilliman re-rolling all and Dark Angels re-rolling 1s.

If Dark Angels switch to infantry and higher-str. weapons like lascannons or plasma to make use of the 4++ and to generally wound on lower numbers with Str. 8 and 9 (and make the re-roll 1s cover a greater percentage of the failed to-wound rolls), a UM Razorback list will immediately get more Wounds/T per point to the table as it's hard to match 10 T7 W for just over 100 points of an AssCan Razorback with Infantry worth anything other than bubble wrap. But again, the 4++ might mitigate that disadvantage somewhat.

But it'd be an interesting match (from a mathhammer perspective .. game-play wise it'd be boring as death). In no way am I saying it's an immediate autowin for Guilliman.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/13 13:11:03


 
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight





Ellicott City, MD

I think the meta for the Dark Angels will change a lot once the Lion is released. Competitive SM builds basically revolve around Guilliman, odds are good that the same will be true for DA but without knowing what rules he has it's difficult to tell right now.

I think a combination of Ravenwing and Greenwing will be the competitive meta until the Lion is released but that's just my two cents on the matter.

Vonjankmon
Death Korp of Krieg
Dark Angels 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I do like that I can add some support sqds to my Ravenwing without the need for characters to boost their stats with rerolls. Some sniper scouts, helblasters, dev sqd can hold objectives while the Wing goes out supported by Sammael and maybe a DW knight unit in reserve to teleport close in when needed.
   
Made in us
Stalwart Dark Angels Space Marine





 bullyboy wrote:
I do like that I can add some support sqds to my Ravenwing without the need for characters to boost their stats with rerolls. Some sniper scouts, helblasters, dev sqd can hold objectives while the Wing goes out supported by Sammael and maybe a DW knight unit in reserve to teleport close in when needed.


I agree, and would even go so far as to say maybe that was the intention? The RW and DW are supposed to be the hammer, the Greenwing the anvil. That's how it's always portrayed in the fluff.

Your green boys mind the backyard and provide fire support, your wings go out and smash face.

The 1st Legion
Interrogator-Chaplain Beremiah's Strike Force
The Tearers of Flesh 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




If Dark Angels switch to infantry and higher-str. weapons like lascannons or plasma to make use of the 4++ and to generally wound on lower numbers with Str. 8 and 9 (and make the re-roll 1s cover a greater percentage of the failed to-wound rolls), a UM Razorback list will immediately get more Wounds/T per point to the table as it's hard to match 10 T7 W for just over 100 points of an AssCan Razorback with Infantry worth anything other than bubble wrap. But again, the 4++ might mitigate that disadvantage somewhat.
At least in my mind, that's how a DA parking lot would work. Hellblasters cluster and use the plasma strat ad nauseam to take down whatever you please. Mortis Dreads with quad lascannons clean up the rest. Maybe have some Black Knights or just plain Ravenwing to clear out chaff that gets too close. Scouts act as speed bumps and drop screen. Voila! instant serious PITA army, even without 4++ on vehicles. It may not be quite as impressive as having Assbacks everywhere, but it'll lay down some reliable hurt for a few turns.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Central WI

Can't wait for summer 2018 when the lion, vulkan, and Russ are released in their campaign. Too bad they couldn't have just put them in their codex books now though... 7th/8th is becoming like 3rd, having to use several books to play one army.

IN ALAE MORTIS... On the wings of Death!! 
   
Made in gb
Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought





Cardiff

 455_PWR wrote:
Can't wait for summer 2018 when the lion, vulkan, and Russ are released in their campaign. Too bad they couldn't have just put them in their codex books now though... 7th/8th is becoming like 3rd, having to use several books to play one army.


You just know that if they do do that, they'll release a Campaign Book like it's 7th all over again, to get revenue from players of multiple armies for the same product. Easy money.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in ca
Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit





Nova Scotia

 JohnnyHell wrote:
You just know that if they do do that, they'll release a Campaign Book like it's 7th all over again, to get revenue from players of multiple armies for the same product. Easy money.

I actually don't mind that so long as 8th sticks around for a good long while instead of releasing a campaign book then a couple months later, a new edition that renders it all useless.
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight





Ellicott City, MD

I think GW needs to be careful how far they tread down the multiple books to play line, eventually it becomes to much for a new player to easily comprehend.

The yearly Chapter Approved could fill this void potentially.

Vonjankmon
Death Korp of Krieg
Dark Angels 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






This is also an unfortunate side effect of rushing out Codices. Obviously GW has more kits and new stuff to release, and while they should come with datasheets in the box, it becomes a knock-on effect of trying to release all the codices in 12 months time or whatever. You're going to have loads of products which won't be in a proper book - unless it is indeed a campaign book of some sort.

It's terribly obvious that the Primaris line will be releasing kits every year for...ever probably. So in a year or two almost half of the kits or more won't be in the current Space Marine codex (I still think we'll see a secondary Primaris type codex or something).

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Hopefully things will stabilize substantially once all the codices are released and all they have to do is update with CA and release kits. That'll make life grand. All you'll need are your book(s?) and the most recent CA. None of this shifting between index, codex, and CA garbage. That's too close to the bookkeeping nightmare 7th gave us.
   
Made in gb
Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought





Cardiff

MilkmanAl wrote:
Hopefully things will stabilize substantially once all the codices are released and all they have to do is update with CA and release kits. That'll make life grand. All you'll need are your book(s?) and the most recent CA. None of this shifting between index, codex, and CA garbage. That's too close to the bookkeeping nightmare 7th gave us.


Except each CA will have unique stuff too, so you could play a game in (imaginary example) 2019 using the CA2017 missions, CA2018 extra units and CA2019 Battlezone rules and points. They won't make it a revised almanac each time, as the Generals' Handbook for AoS has shown.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Another good review https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2017/12/13/dark-angels-codex-review-part-2-dark-angels-units/

Battlescribe Catalog Editor - Please report bugs here http://battlescribedata.appspot.com/#/repo/wh40k 
   
Made in es
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets




Vigo. Spain.



I don't know why they are doing this. Haven't they received the memo about the consensus that this Codex suck **s?

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




clearly you haven't seen frontline gamings reviews or understand that they are part of GWs special play tester team. So, i'm guessing they aren't going to gak all books they helped playtest, On top of that, their entire business is based on GW products, again, another reason why they never gak on anything GW has put out thus far. Go watch their review of 8th edition, if you don't see biased then your not looking. That's why most people watch their reviews with a LOT of skepticism, just look at their comment sections lol.

Not saying they are wrong, But i know how you don't like people's opinions that differ from your own...

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/12/15 01:47:38


 
   
Made in es
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets




Vigo. Spain.

Actually, it was sarcasm, about the "Consensus" that this Codex was garbage tier.

I can totally understand the biases people has. And I actually like that. When you know the bias of a group/person, or their personal tastes, you can know for what to look, and to take what they say with a grain of salt.

It applies to videogame reviewers, for example. If you follow a guy for years, you know what he likes and he doesn't like. And when he likes a game from a genre he normally dislikes, you know thats something worth looking. This is why I don't read "professional" reviews. They are made by anonimouns no-bodies, copypasted and without any kind of personal of objetive method.

And about the last little knive, I have no problems disagreeing with people. Actually I prefer that, I learn more talking with people that has a different opinion than my own, that with people that shares my same opinion.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 Galas wrote:


And about the last little knive, I have no problems disagreeing with people. Actually I prefer that, I learn more talking with people that has a different opinion than my own, that with people that shares my same opinion.


Then why attack people with different opinions than your own? I don't force my opinions on anyone, but I don't have any issues discussing and stating my position, and I fully concede my opinions can be wrong, and have been from time to time, but I don't attack people for giving theirs.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/15 04:56:16


 
   
Made in es
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets




Vigo. Spain.

Who I'm attacking? I'll concede, I was being a little snarky. But I wasn't attacking or intending to attack anyone.

And normally I don't "attack" people with different opinions than my own. I "attack" people that makes generalised and hyperbolic statements, even if they I have the same opinion.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in gb
Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought





Cardiff

Galas was being obviously sarcastic...

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
 
Forum Index » News & Rumors
Go to: