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Can they make a post-behemoth asthetics pass and go back to smaller models?

I kid... sort of. Does anyone really like the huge models in the game? Serious, no sarcasm intended here despite the earlier joke. I'm genuinely curious if the change in focus is popular with the (dakka) community or strictly just a business move. Admittedly, I'm not a fan of the apocalypsification of 40k either so I am a bit biased in that regard.

beast_gts wrote:
Dropzone Commander Post-Behemoth Balance Pass

Just finished reading it, L OV E the changes (and that there's a changelog again, huzzah!)

They fixed most every major complaint I had about units, and the CQ fix I want to test but sounds like a reasonable compromise with simul-CQ, which appears to be a hill they will die on.

Would have been nice to see collateral and fast movers tweaked as well, but I get wanting to only change one piece at a time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 warboss wrote:
Does anyone really like the huge models in the game?

I hate them. My friends group hates them. I know of one guy out of a dozen drop players locally that likes them, but I think he likes them in a memey way more than as actual gameplay or modeling.

 warboss wrote:
Can they make a post-behemoth asthetics pass and go back to smaller models?

I kid... sort of. Does anyone really like the huge models in the game? Serious, no sarcasm intended here despite the earlier joke. I'm genuinely curious if the change in focus is popular with the (dakka) community or strictly just a business move. Admittedly, I'm not a fan of the apocalypsification of 40k either so I am a bit biased in that regard.

I’d likely buy the UCM or PHR ones if the prices were greatly reduced. I still think they violate the core conceit of the game and feel wildly out of place, but they’re so shmexy.

 warboss wrote:
Can they make a post-behemoth asthetics pass and go back to smaller models?

I kid... sort of. Does anyone really like the huge models in the game? Serious, no sarcasm intended here despite the earlier joke. I'm genuinely curious if the change in focus is popular with the (dakka) community or strictly just a business move. Admittedly, I'm not a fan of the apocalypsification of 40k either so I am a bit biased in that regard.

I think they're a bit... too large? They also aren't what the game really needed right now. If the game was healthy and vibrant, I wouldn't mind them at all, but they seem kind of like misplaced priorities given the other issues.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:


I’d likely buy the UCM or PHR ones if the prices were greatly reduced. I still think they violate the core conceit of the game and feel wildly out of place, but they’re so shmexy.

Agree with all but the shmexy part (referring to the behemoths). I think the term definitely applies to UCM and PHR in general though as I'm a fan of the asthetics. I bought some models and terrain kits simply because I like the asthetics but I can't call myself an actual player (just a small demo game played once and watched a few dozen videos years ago) so admittedly I'm not the target demographic. I just really liked the premise that gave the game its name, namely dropping units onto the field. Maybe it was naive of me to think that they wouldn't try to outgrow/expand beyond that though....

TBH I always found the "drop" part of the game to be overstated. The costs of the drop vehicles generally seems to be too high (IMO), the mechanics of embarking/disembarking too restrictive, and the length of the game too short for the tactical mobility afforded by the drop vehicles to really matter. Generally you're disembarking your entire force in the first couple turns, and maybe holding a quick response unit back for another turn beyond that, but thats about it, and aside from late game objective grabs, you're rarely re-embarking once you've dropped your forces off.

Thats been my experience with the game anyway, admittedly I haven't played at all in the last 18 months or so, and even before that I've only played about 7 or 8 games right after 2nd edition was released (played a lot more in 1st ed), so I don't know if errata and new releases have shifted the meta/gameplay dyanmics at all.

I fully admit that it's a bit of a gimmick but it was a cool one for me. Even if just used in the beginning with deployment on turn 1 and then sparingly if ever afterwards, I thought it was cool in theory from watching (again... not a player myself). The extra tasty icing on the cake was that the models actually fit onto the dropships for that added level of modelling coolness.

That seems to have been lost with the transition to megazords commander.

I have to admit that I like the behemoths (except whatever that resistance thing is), I played three games with them now. They do change the feeling of the game completely. But depending on the mission, there impact isn't as bad.
I won a mission where the only way to score was infantry inside buildings (forgot the name of the mission), I played 2000 points shaltari without a behemoth, my opponent played PHR with a behemoth. It was a fun game of dancing around the behemoth, redeploying via gates etc.
I think in the context of the smaller vehicles released in the beginning of this year, the behemoths aren't too upsetting. I like them as part of the sci-fi universe, and the mission design of Dropzone doesn't encourage them that much. But they are really intimidating on the table and definitely not very beginner friendly.

Brickfix wrote:
I have to admit that I like the behemoths (except whatever that resistance thing is), I played three games with them now. They do change the feeling of the game completely. But depending on the mission, there impact isn't as bad. I won a mission where the only way to score was infantry inside buildings (forgot the name of the mission), I played 2000 points shaltari without a behemoth, my opponent played PHR with a behemoth. It was a fun game of dancing around the behemoth, redeploying via gates etc.

Are the gates their version of redeployment via dropships? Are the gates size limited (certain gates can only move certain size models/stands)? I remember seeing them in videos but it's a bit fuzzy years later.

I think in the context of the smaller vehicles released in the beginning of this year, the behemoths aren't too upsetting. I like them as part of the sci-fi universe, and the mission design of Dropzone doesn't encourage them that much. But they are really intimidating on the table and definitely not very beginner friendly.

As long as you and your opponent had fun, that's the most important thing. Are the rules very different for the behemoths? Or is the non-beginner friendly thing that they're very concentrated power that new players may not know how to handle properly and instead just piecemeal throw their own units into the grinder?

Let's see if I can work out quoting on my smartphone ...

 warboss wrote:

Brickfix wrote:
I have to admit that I like the behemoths (except whatever that resistance thing is), I played three games with them now. They do change the feeling of the game completely. But depending on the mission, there impact isn't as bad. I won a mission where the only way to score was infantry inside buildings (forgot the name of the mission), I played 2000 points shaltari without a behemoth, my opponent played PHR with a behemoth. It was a fun game of dancing around the behemoth, redeploying via gates etc.

Are the gates their version of redeployment via dropships? Are the gates size limited (certain gates can only move certain size models/stands)? I remember seeing them in videos but it's a bit fuzzy years later.

Yes, Transport capacity is limited for gates. They have a transport value they can maximally embark and disembark. The rules even allow embarking one squad and disembarking a different squad from the same gate in the same turn, if they are both in the same battleground. It also allows to reduce the number gates compared to the dropships other factions bring, was one battlegroup may deploy round one and another reuse the gate round two.

I think in the context of the smaller vehicles released in the beginning of this year, the behemoths aren't too upsetting. I like them as part of the sci-fi universe, and the mission design of Dropzone doesn't encourage them that much. But they are really intimidating on the table and definitely not very beginner friendly.

As long as you and your opponent had fun, that's the most important thing. Are the rules very different for the behemoths? Or is the non-beginner friendly thing that they're very concentrated power that new players may not know how to handle properly and instead just piecemeal throw their own units into the grinder?

The rules are a bit more complex then regular units. They have three different sections with degrading effects when damaged, which encourages decision making which to destroy first. To completely destroy the behemoth, all sections must be destroyed. The rules concerning the behemoths "spread" value took some time to completely work through. With all the other mechanics in play a total beginner might be overwhelmed but after some regular games it shouldn't be too hard to get into. I like the degrading profile because it creates a better interaction with the enemy vehicle, the life points aren't just a huge damage sink.
But what I really think is that a beginner might focus to much on the big thing and forget the game objectives. There are several missions where infantry is the only unit type that can score, or multiple objectives are spread out on the table. The behemoths can only be in one place when scoring is concerned. And in combination with dropships, most units are far more mobile then the behemoth. And in the new edition, they may still shoot (yes with a to-hit modifier but that's fine). We had a friend who isn't into small scale wargames watch and he totally misjudged what was going on in the first round.

Now the new resistance "colossus" behemoth changes some thing's as it has a massive anti-air arsenal, but 12" range and sensible use of terrain may mitigate that. I doubt I will ever see it action, I won't buy it and I don't know anyone else who showed any interest in it. I will also have to see how the balance changes pan out, some factions received some potent upgrades to their guns.

warboss wrote:Are the rules very different for the behemoths? Or is the non-beginner friendly thing that they're very concentrated power that new players may not know how to handle properly and instead just piecemeal throw their own units into the grinder?

The rules aren't wildly more difficult to understand, but before the FAQ yesterday there was a lot of slop in how their measurements work, and I think the whole 'Drop Harness' rules are a noob trap and the better play is ALWAYS to ignore them and have it walk onto the board from an edge. Also, a huge part of the recent update was adding in the phrase 'but not behemoths' to like half the rules and special abilities in the game.

But the biggest thing that makes them noob unfriendly is their size and cost. Every one of these models is 500pts, and in a 2000pt game (a typical size for including them), they cost more than the other 1500pts of models in real world money. And their mass is also greater than the rest of the army.

They're blatant whale bait.

New variant for the scourge cruiser:
https://community.ttcombat.com/2022/09/21/wip-wednesday-new-scourge-wyvern-cruiser/

Additional commentary on the plastic kits:

Now we should make it clear that this is just an updated sculpt we’ve been working on and won’t be replacing the existing plastic cruiser kit.

I like the sculpt, but I prefer the plastic cruiser look.

Brickfix wrote:
New variant for the scourge cruiser:https://community.ttcombat.com/2022/09/21/wip-wednesday-new-scourge-wyvern-cruiser/

There, was it that hard to just say these are alt-sculpts in the first place?

Not particularly excited by them. They're so flat and 2 dimensional looking.

The only downside is it reminds me of the worst thing about scourge models - lots of little vain/dimples all on the freaking mould line region. Otherwise I like it, nice sleek design and unique compared to the original whilst sharing similar design traits to other ships.

Alt designs is always interesting in my view and something I like to see supported long term; it lets you get more diversity and variety on the table without bloating the model line.

Dang is that an awesome looking cruiser.

That one model will get me to start a Scourge army. I like the scourge battlecruiser, hunter-killer, and monitor designs but hated the rest of the sculpts. But this cruiser makes it possible to have a fleet that I think will look *baller*.

New starter set for Dropfleet coming soon with the new sculpts they showed of the other day & version 1.5 rulebook!

https://community.ttcombat.com/2022/09/27/dropfleet-commander-update-news/

Excellent news regarding the DFC starter.

Is there are solo 'plug in' for it does anyone know? No way o could get any mates interested in it, but I like the idea of a space fleet pew pew session.

Perfect timing on the new starter- I've been eyeing this game for some time, and it sounds like this is the perfect time to make the leap

Any idea what the price point will be on that starter?

 Gitzbitah wrote:
Any idea what the price point will be on that starter?

Previous starter set was 65 GBP. Hopefully the new set won't cost too much more than that.

Wait, are the new alternative sculpts not resin? So resin and plastics mixed in the new kit? A weird decision, I assume ordering the plastic sprues got harder or something like this…

Man I hate resin. It's such garbage - it could be okay but at this point so few companies do proper quality control. Mold slips along major detail? No thanks.
The dropfleet plastics were really fun - only space fleet game with good plastic sprues.

To be fair, TTC has quite good QC control and similar to GW will resend any miscast models that slipped QC. Biggest issue are bended models that need to be bent back in shape. Especially with models like space ships this can be an issue as if you do not get it right as it looks wonky. This is just something for more experienced hobbyists.

For a beginner product it seems just weirdly out of place: The starter should make the entry as easy as possible. Habing to buy 2 kinds of glue, to clean the resin models and bent them back of required, before glueing…all additional and uncomfortable steps that clearly may put of newer players.

Buddy of mine bought a Shaltari fleet pack, had a huge blast building the plastic models but had such a horrible experience with the included resin battleship that he literally stopped the whole project there and did not bother to dive deeper in to the game.

It is already hard to convince people to give the TTC games a fair chance to extend the playgroup…still haven’t found more than 1 other player for Carnevale in my area :(

The new ships are single piece casts, so besides some bending and flash removal no increased workload for a beginner.
But I do find it weird that they mix plastic and resin, would have thought an expansion pack would make more sense for the new resin ships.

It's curious because starter packs and such are designed to be mass produced to get the most people in so often favour plastics over resin components because you can fast cast plastic, then you use resin for smaller production lines.

Then again Dystopian Wars has a starter with two big chunky resin ships inside.

Mantic firefight 2.0 also contains PVC minis next to the plastic, and the Dropzone starter contains the two commanders out of resin. So it is not a first. Still would have preferred 3 plastic ships next to the two resin ships, this would allow a greater variety of rules that can be covered with the starter set. Fighters and bombers, bulk landers, orbital bombardment is all available in the plastic sets, but with the only one sprue the options are lost.

I do wonder though, the image for the new starter contains a Moscow heavy cruiser. The heavy cruiser requires two sprues to be built, as each sprue only contains two main guns. The Moscow needs four ...

I wonder if they've cut a new starter plastic mould that only has the starter set models. Since if I recall right most cruisers don't come on their own separate sprue to start with and the starter only shows 1 plastic cruiser per faction.


Also another thought is that including a resin model in the starter set means perhaps less of a shock when people find resin in the rest of the range. A downside to plastic starter sets is that customers then expect everything else to be plastic as well.
So getting out of the door with both means new people learn about both. Yes it might mean 1 more pot of glue for startup, but I'd consider that a tiny investment barrier

I doubt they recut the sprue to build a cruiser variant that only requires two small extra guns. Much easier to just cast those two in resin.
Good point on introducing two different materials though, cuts down on some misplaced expectation. This happened to me after buying the Dropzone starter years ago und wondering why my plastic glue would not glue the new tank a bought together.

While I’ve mostly had great experiences with their resin, I find this a bit troubling. Are they just not able to get more of the plastic sprues?

At least they had the good sense to make the starter ships one piece to ease new players into resin.