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Made in us
Furious Fire Dragon




USA

 The Red Hobbit wrote:
Are you really trying to argue that a nerf from S6 to S4 is not a nerf because it's a new edition?
Everything changed across all factions. A nerf is an intentional weakening of something. This is a redesign. Let’s wait until we see them in action on the table before we decry them as nerfed.
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 The Red Hobbit wrote:
Are you really trying to argue that a nerf from S6 to S4 is not a nerf because it's a new edition?


Seeing you compare to other 10e datasheets...thee's not even old point to compare.

You realize right you don't play with 10e sheets vs 9e?

Tson bolters lost ap. Is that nerf? No as ap dropped all around. You compare 10e to 10e.

Unles you cheat and play 10e with 9e datasheets.

Closest to nerf/buff we can say is when win rates start to come. And then it's army got buffed/nerfed. Not individual units.

Last i heard # of 10e tournaments played is currently flat 0.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/06/05 18:42:36


 
   
Made in it
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Italy

And looking across every other Eldar data sheet previewed thus far, most of the weapons have barely been touched compared to other factions and some have been improved. Warp Spiders are notable for being significantly downgraded in that regard.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/06/05 20:08:19


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





*Googles the warp spiders datasheet for more details. *

Ah. Okay. That doesn't look too bad, actually. Strength 4 means they're -1 to-wound against most targets I would realistically send them after, but going from blast to torrent means we'll be landing 3.5 hits per spider instead of like, 2.345ish. I'm not sure how the math compares vs meq and geq and such, but my gut says it's probably not a *huge* nerf.

Plus, switching to torrent is cute little nod back to their roots and (to me) feels like it helps to distinguish their guns a little. S6 was cool and all, but we kind of had a lot of it floating around. But torrent weapons? Not a ton of those.

The 24" jump is kind of meh. With spiders, you should either be able to nuke the thing you teleport next to (which the strength debuff doesn't help with), or you should be able to lean into the hit&run thing (which the new jump doesn't allow.)

So my gut says they're a bit blander due to the jump changes, but probably perfectly usable. Seems like these guys will be pretty good at jumping onto lightly-guarded objectives and wiping out squishy campers.

Maybe there will be an exarch power that returns some of the hit & run flavor?


ATTENTION
. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
 
   
Made in us
Furious Fire Dragon




USA

 Wyldhunt wrote:
*Googles the warp spiders datasheet for more details. *

Ah. Okay. That doesn't look too bad, actually. Strength 4 means they're -1 to-wound against most targets I would realistically send them after, but going from blast to torrent means we'll be landing 3.5 hits per spider instead of like, 2.345ish. I'm not sure how the math compares vs meq and geq and such, but my gut says it's probably not a *huge* nerf.

Plus, switching to torrent is cute little nod back to their roots and (to me) feels like it helps to distinguish their guns a little. S6 was cool and all, but we kind of had a lot of it floating around. But torrent weapons? Not a ton of those.

The 24" jump is kind of meh. With spiders, you should either be able to nuke the thing you teleport next to (which the strength debuff doesn't help with), or you should be able to lean into the hit&run thing (which the new jump doesn't allow.)

So my gut says they're a bit blander due to the jump changes, but probably perfectly usable. Seems like these guys will be pretty good at jumping onto lightly-guarded objectives and wiping out squishy campers.

Maybe there will be an exarch power that returns some of the hit & run flavor?
They have devastating wounds, which means they should average about 3 MW on a full squad shooting. Then 17.5 hits into something that is T4 means then should wound another 9 times, which would be another 3 wounds on anything that doesn’t have a 2+ save. That means they will wipe 3 primaris means on average a turn. Depending on their point cost, that could be very good.

On the turns they do the flicker, they can either spend 2CP to fire and fade into some kind of cover or LoS blocker, or just wait until the opponents movement phase and spend 1 CP for phantasm to do the same move.

Are they brokenly good? Probably not, but I don’t see their changes as a straight nerf. It is a bit of a redesign that forces them into a different type of role. Infantry will afford them special rules that things like bikes do not get, and with that, there aren’t many other infantry units that can move 24 inches in a single turn (not counting the possibility of a stratagem)

We mortals are but shadows and dust...
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Made in nz
Unshakeable Grey Knight Land Raider Pilot




I don't think you can easily discount any squad full of Torrent weapons this edition, with the way that Overwatch works.

If you've got the CP to spend, you could potentially get 2 rounds of shooting at an enemy before they get to charge you (once in your shooting phase, once when they move or charge).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/06/07 02:03:13


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Spartacus wrote:
I don't think you can easily discount any squad full of Torrent weapons this edition, with the way that Overwatch works.

If you've got the CP to spend, you could potentially get 2 rounds of shooting at an enemy before they get to charge you (once in your shooting phase, once when they move or charge).


That's true. You can also probably use the whats-it-called strat to deepstrike them in the path of long-bomb charge units and overwatch with them. Could be worth it if you need to keep some berzerkers away from your reapers or whatever.


ATTENTION
. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
 
   
Made in us
Furious Fire Dragon




USA

I’m upset that the new Autarch kits warp spider build is not an option per the data sheet.

We mortals are but shadows and dust...
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Made in us
Twisting Tzeentch Horror





Upon review of the full set of data sheets I am overall happy with Eldar, especially the lists I build. Some thoughts....

War-walkers look great, 3+,4++ and -1 to the wound rolls. I always take a unit of 3 as they are some of my favorite models so I like this

Dire Avengers - over-watch on a 5+ or 4+. Love it. Also with their Phoenix lord they get to do that for free.....Definitely taking a unit of them.

Farseer and warlock in a max bike squad looks like a delicious deathstar-esq unit.

Fire Dragons coming out of a Falcon seems like it will be great, as the re-roll wounds will mitigate the S9 on the meltas.

Some negatives though
Autarchs can't join aspect warriors? That is not just a suck for game purposes, but isn't the fluff that Autarchs have walked many aspect paths to get to where they are? Wouldn't that make them good leaders for aspects?

Someone correct me if I am wrong but Dark Reapers look piss poor, even if they were dirt cheap.


Of course everything is dependent on points tomorrow.

   
Made in us
Furious Fire Dragon




USA

 xeen wrote:
Farseer and warlock in a max bike squad looks like a delicious deathstar-esq unit.
Are you talking about either one of them joining a squad or both joining the same squad? I didn’t think a squad could have more than one leader.

We mortals are but shadows and dust...
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 mokoshkana wrote:
 xeen wrote:
Farseer and warlock in a max bike squad looks like a delicious deathstar-esq unit.
Are you talking about either one of them joining a squad or both joining the same squad? I didn’t think a squad could have more than one leader.


On the warlock sheet it says it can join even if already has another character, similar to the SM lieutenant. Correct me if I am wrong though.
   
Made in it
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Italy

 xeen wrote:
Upon review of the full set of data sheets I am overall happy with Eldar, especially the lists I build. Some thoughts....

War-walkers look great, 3+,4++ and -1 to the wound rolls. I always take a unit of 3 as they are some of my favorite models so I like this

Dire Avengers - over-watch on a 5+ or 4+. Love it. Also with their Phoenix lord they get to do that for free.....Definitely taking a unit of them.

Farseer and warlock in a max bike squad looks like a delicious deathstar-esq unit.

Fire Dragons coming out of a Falcon seems like it will be great, as the re-roll wounds will mitigate the S9 on the meltas.

Some negatives though
Autarchs can't join aspect warriors? That is not just a suck for game purposes, but isn't the fluff that Autarchs have walked many aspect paths to get to where they are? Wouldn't that make them good leaders for aspects?

Someone correct me if I am wrong but Dark Reapers look piss poor, even if they were dirt cheap.


Of course everything is dependent on points tomorrow.


Yeah Autarch not being able to lead Aspect Warriors was a real wtf moment for me. Overall Eldar look very good, glad to see my favorite unit the Wraith Lord has such a fun ability, Spirit Seers are also vastly improved. Visarch leading Corsairs might be fun, not quite sure if the unit gains Strands of Fate when he joins it though.

Overall Eldar still look remarkably strong.
   
Made in ca
Tough Traitorous Guardsman






Heavy wraithcannon + Strands of Fate with three 6s = auto-wound and auto 12 mortal wounds.
That's savage !

But maybe the rule says we can only replace one dice from a 2d6 roll? It's not all clear to me. It's still 6+D6 auto mortal wounds.

Anyway, since it's a D3 weapon and the Wraithknight can have two such weapons, you can easily pull that off twice in the same volley and auto-kill an Imperial Knight or Mortaring at 36''.

This message was edited 13 times. Last update was at 2023/06/15 23:10:01


 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Dallas area, TX

 mokoshkana wrote:
I’m upset that the new Autarch kits warp spider build is not an option per the data sheet.
I felt the same at first. Then I realized that the Wayleaper datasheet is meant to be a combined profile for any "jump pack" Autarch. So your kit is still perfectly valid.

Otoh, my Skyrunner Autarch is complete crap now. First they remove all his wargear options in 8th, now they only allow him to join a non-melee unit that never wants to get close enough to use his melee

-

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/06/16 01:55:49


   
Made in it
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Italy

 RenegadeKorps wrote:
Heavy wraithcannon + Strands of Fate with three 6s = auto-wound and auto 12 mortal wounds.
That's savage !

But maybe the rule says we can only replace one dice from a 2d6 roll? It's not all clear to me. It's still 6+D6 auto mortal wounds.

Anyway, since it's a D3 weapon and the Wraithknight can have two such weapons, you can easily pull that off twice in the same volley and auto-kill an Imperial Knight or Mortaring at 36''.

Now the question is, will the WK be undercosted like in 7th or over costed like in 8th
   
Made in us
Agile Revenant Titan




Florida

There is a lot to unpack in the index. A few things really stuck out for me (barring points)

The Yncarne can teleport and charge in the same turn as well as Heroic Intervention.

Wraithguard and Webway Gate seems like an easy way to shoot, charge, Assault, and shoot again (assuming they survive getting hit back). Spiritseers will be an auto include.

Wraithnkights. IIRC, benefit from cover giving it a 1+ save (assuming being shot by AP 1 or better) and shoot as true LOS. Throw Guide on it (allowable once again) and you have a very solid anti armor platform.
Lop
Reapers with Maugan Ra always hitting on 2+ with ability to retreat out of LOS.


The big issue I suspect will be how prevalent will Indirect Fire be? I have 10 Desolation Marines in my DA army and I think they are an auto include unit. For example vs a Guardian squad with Farseer, the Desolation can Indirect fire 10d3 + 20 shots hitting on 3s ignoring cover. Not sure how other factions fared with Indirect fire options.


Edit. Points are significant. Webway Gate is a bit costly, but other stuff much less so. 370 for Wraithknight definitely gers mine off the shelf to test out.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/06/16 14:51:59


No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




370 for a Wraithknight seems insane.
   
Made in it
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Italy

Yeah 90pts cheaper than the twin heavy wraithcannon version from 9e.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Some points comparisons on some iconic units

HQ
Asurmen -40pts
Baharroth -35pts
Fuegan -55pts
Jain Zar -45pts
Karandras -50pts
Maugan Ra -30pts
Eldrad -45pts
Farseer -45pts
Spiritseer -10pts

Aspects MSU
Dire Avengers +5pts
Scorpions -15pts (-25 Claw)
Fire Dragons -35pts (-45 Fire Pike)
Banshees -10pts (-15 Executioner)
Dark Reapers -60pts (-70 Tempest)
Shining Spears +15pts (+0 Starlance & Shield)
Swooping Hawks -50pts (-60 Hawk's Talon)
Warp Spiders -10pts (-20 2x Spinner)

Wraiths MSU
Wraithblades swords -30pts
Wraithblades Ax & Shield -55pts
Wraithguard D-cannon -45pts
Wraithguard D-Scythe -95pts
Wraith Lord 2x Starcannon + Glaive +30pts
Wraith Lord 2x Shuriken or Bright Lance + Glaive +5pts (w/ Flamers -5pts)
Wraithknight sword and board -30pts
Wraithknight with dual cannons -90pts

Leaders in several factions have dropped a lot, including ours.
While the Aspects & Phoenix Lords have lost a lot of what made them awesome in 9e , the points for the most of them have dropped significantly.
Also someone on the design team really like Wraiths given how much cheaper they've gotten.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/06/16 15:31:25


 
   
Made in dk
Regular Dakkanaut




fate die are completely bonkers. must be nerfed right now or we will never loose any games in tenth.

with eldrad you have15 die. with a guardian squad and a wraith lord on points you get two more every turn. plus one for each unit the weeping stones unit kills. I can change 2 of these every battle round to sixes. and I can use these freely as it suits med on the relevant rolls.

Thats my understanding of the rules. if I got this right I can't see how we ever lose. Opponent won't be able to kill much except chaff the first two turns at least if you play the long range game.

3 prisms is.. 375 points? that and a lot of low volume/high damage shots will just remove enemy units between innate rerolls and fate dice. Wraith knight and d-cannon mortals on dev wound makes the armys shooting completely unreasonable.

I feel these rules are b0rk.

What am I missing? : )
   
Made in us
Furious Fire Dragon




USA

 xeen wrote:
 mokoshkana wrote:
 xeen wrote:
Farseer and warlock in a max bike squad looks like a delicious deathstar-esq unit.
Are you talking about either one of them joining a squad or both joining the same squad? I didn’t think a squad could have more than one leader.


On the warlock sheet it says it can join even if already has another character, similar to the SM lieutenant. Correct me if I am wrong though.
You are absolutely correct. I missed that. Very cool!

 Galef wrote:
 mokoshkana wrote:
I’m upset that the new Autarch kits warp spider build is not an option per the data sheet.
I felt the same at first. Then I realized that the Wayleaper datasheet is meant to be a combined profile for any "jump pack" Autarch. So your kit is still perfectly valid.

Otoh, my Skyrunner Autarch is complete crap now. First they remove all his wargear options in 8th, now they only allow him to join a non-melee unit that never wants to get close enough to use his melee

-
I missed this as well, a little bummed the cool kit cant be in a normal squad, but I guess I can always just "proxy" it without the warp spider pack if I want.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Am I correct in my understanding of Ynnari? It seems that as long as I don't make Yvraine my warlord, I can put her in a normal army of Harlequins leading a squad, and that same army could contain both a Solitaire and a Yncarne?

It would seem making her the warlord is purely necessary for adding in Drukhari if one wanted to do that sort of thing, right?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/06/16 21:17:38


We mortals are but shadows and dust...
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Made in dk
Regular Dakkanaut




the wording on the farseers branching fate ability confuses me. Can I do this once per turn per farseer with that ability or only once per turn no matter how many farseers I have on the table?
   
Made in us
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

 Galef wrote:
 mokoshkana wrote:
I’m upset that the new Autarch kits warp spider build is not an option per the data sheet.
I felt the same at first. Then I realized that the Wayleaper datasheet is meant to be a combined profile for any "jump pack" Autarch. So your kit is still perfectly valid.

Otoh, my Skyrunner Autarch is complete crap now. First they remove all his wargear options in 8th, now they only allow him to join a non-melee unit that never wants to get close enough to use his melee

-


While scatbikes were the go-to for a number of editions now, I think a squad of twin catapult bikes might make a good escort.

Windrider's Swift Demise Rule wrote:Each time a model in this unit makes a ranged attack that targets the closest eligible target, re-roll a Hit roll of 1. If the target of that attack is within range of an objective marker your opponent controls, you can re-roll the Hit roll instead.


With the cats being TL’d, you are going to get full rerolls to hit and wound for blowing someone off an objective. They are also assault, so you are going to get to take advantage of the auto-6 for that from the autarch. Assuming you don’t want to charge. If you do want to charge, they have 3A at 3+ each to back him up, granted S3 is nothing to write home about, but it’s something. Stick a warlock in there for stealth/ignore cover.

Basically pop from objective to objective, shooting the crap out of anyone camping it, and charging the survivors.

Best use of points? Maybe not. Fun way to play? I might give it a try.

   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




Scoundrel80 wrote:
the wording on the farseers branching fate ability confuses me. Can I do this once per turn per farseer with that ability or only once per turn no matter how many farseers I have on the table?

Once per turn no matter what. Multiple farseers (including eldrad) just give you different points to measure range from.

Not sure why they decided to interrupt the use conditions (Once per turn, One model with branching fate) with what the ability is affecting (fate dice substitution near farseers) and then wrapping up with the effect (make it a 6), but it makes for convoluted phrasing.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2023/06/17 01:09:42


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Furious Fire Dragon




USA

Voss wrote:
Scoundrel80 wrote:
the wording on the farseers branching fate ability confuses me. Can I do this once per turn per farseer with that ability or only once per turn no matter how many farseers I have on the table?
Once per turn no matter what. Multiple farseers (including eldrad) just give you different points to measure range from.
Note you must have a normal farseer or jet seer with the ability to allow Eldrad to trigger it. He does not come stock with that ability.

We mortals are but shadows and dust...
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Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut



UK

Re Autarch's friends, think VERY literally.

Yes, an Autarch WAS on the Path of the Warrior. Keyword WAS. He is now on the Path of Command. His weapon is the army, not the catapult or the blade. He is a Staff Officer, not a Trooper.

Consider the Warlock; also a former Warrior and also given ritual wargear from their former shrine.

Now game terms, I can't explain the reasoning. But it can be justified in lore.
   
Made in us
Furious Fire Dragon




USA

Pilum wrote:
Re Autarch's friends, think VERY literally.

Yes, an Autarch WAS on the Path of the Warrior. Keyword WAS. He is now on the Path of Command. His weapon is the army, not the catapult or the blade. He is a Staff Officer, not a Trooper.

Consider the Warlock; also a former Warrior and also given ritual wargear from their former shrine.

Now game terms, I can't explain the reasoning. But it can be justified in lore.
Apologies, but I’m going to have to check you here. A staff officer rarely goes on the battlefield, and staff officers certainly do not command. The Autarch IS a commander. A commander will command from anywhere he/she deems it best to complete the mission. As such, it does not make sense for the commander to be restricted from a narrative perspective. The restrictions are pure from a rules perspective, which honestly are dumb. The autarch doesn’t bring much to the squad to which it can be attached.

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Dunno if anyone has mentioned it yet, but Striking Scorpions outperform Banshees vs. Marines on average.

hello 
   
Made in it
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Italy

Yeah Banshees are very underwhelming this edition, and not being able to turn off Overwatch was surprising to say the least.

Dire Avengers, Striking Scorpions and Swooping Hawks appear to be the strongest aspects in the Index.
   
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North Denver

[Edit: illegal advice]

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/06/20 07:21:45


 
   
Made in fr
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 The Red Hobbit wrote:
Yeah Banshees are very underwhelming this edition, and not being able to turn off Overwatch was surprising to say the least.

Dire Avengers, Striking Scorpions and Swooping Hawks appear to be the strongest aspects in the Index.


How would turn off overwatch work anyway in 10e? Just flat out 24" can't overwatch might be bit too good but old can't overwatch charging banshees would be nearly useless.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
 
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