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Made in de
Mysterious Techpriest






4W Custodian Guard kinda leave me in a weird place... on one hand, 4W protect you against all that 3D and D3 weapons out there and it is HUGE to have basically doubled survivability against those.
Then again, 4W do nothing when your opponent planned for marines, since you'll just die as fast to 2D weapons as before.
5W Terminators however... oh boy. Those are some tanky bois. There is nothing that is efficient in taking those down.

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Made in at
Longtime Dakkanaut




I've been saying this for months now. +1 wound for all our Infantry and bikers is very much needed and chances are that we'll get exactly that.
We'll lose our +1 invuln if battleforged ability, but I am betting that aegis of the emperor just going to get bumped from a 5++ to a flat 4++, thus making the +1 invuln bonus superfluous.

Axes will for sure become flat 3 dmg and according to some reddit leaks, spears will also be flat 3 dmg, though I'm sceptical about that still.

   
Made in us
Guard Heavy Weapon Crewman





Flat 3 spears seems a little too optimistic. My money is on d2.

4w custodes is... Acceptable. especially if it keeps our points from getting too bonkers. So many d3 weapons out there, that would make a difference. However, it wouldn't change our vulnerability to d2...

Is a ranged weapon option for terminators out of the question?

Armies
 
   
Made in us
Despised Traitorous Cultist





Keep in mind, 4W does make a difference when not every weapon thrown against you is D2. Remaining with 2W after the last D2 weapon still leaves you with needing to fail 2 saves against a D1 weapon instead of 1. Plus, I'd assume the Allarus dudes would end up with 5W.

If they give Custodes a flat 4++ then what would be the point in taking storm shields? My biggest hope (for what it's worth since I'm super new to Custodes and haven't even gotten a game in yet) would be that the wargear options are to some extent internally balanced. It's always a shame looking at an army and realizing 1 of the 3 or so weapon options is the clear, universally superior choice.

Rejoice in the coming oblivion!

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Chaos Custodes 
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





In My Lab

Iggy88 wrote:
Keep in mind, 4W does make a difference when not every weapon thrown against you is D2. Remaining with 2W after the last D2 weapon still leaves you with needing to fail 2 saves against a D1 weapon instead of 1. Plus, I'd assume the Allarus dudes would end up with 5W.

If they give Custodes a flat 4++ then what would be the point in taking storm shields? My biggest hope (for what it's worth since I'm super new to Custodes and haven't even gotten a game in yet) would be that the wargear options are to some extent internally balanced. It's always a shame looking at an army and realizing 1 of the 3 or so weapon options is the clear, universally superior choice.
First off, +1 Armor Saves.

Second off, GW could make "Custodes Storm Shields" instead of regular ones that give a 3++, or a 4+++ against MW, or whatever they want.

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Longtime Dakkanaut




 JNAProductions wrote:
Iggy88 wrote:
Keep in mind, 4W does make a difference when not every weapon thrown against you is D2. Remaining with 2W after the last D2 weapon still leaves you with needing to fail 2 saves against a D1 weapon instead of 1. Plus, I'd assume the Allarus dudes would end up with 5W.

If they give Custodes a flat 4++ then what would be the point in taking storm shields? My biggest hope (for what it's worth since I'm super new to Custodes and haven't even gotten a game in yet) would be that the wargear options are to some extent internally balanced. It's always a shame looking at an army and realizing 1 of the 3 or so weapon options is the clear, universally superior choice.
First off, +1 Armor Saves.

Second off, GW could make "Custodes Storm Shields" instead of regular ones that give a 3++, or a 4+++ against MW, or whatever they want.


I agree, custodes stormshields will likely just get some other additional buff instead of the 3++. And +1 save is still a very useful buff in addition.

I'm somewhat optimistic that we'll see at least something previewed next week.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/21 19:32:24


 
   
Made in de
Mighty Chosen Warrior of Chaos






I doubt we will keep the shields with 3++ So I hope they make the Stormshields -1 to hit or wound, like the galatus shield.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/21 20:04:11


 
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





In My Lab

 nordsturmking wrote:
I doubt we will keep the shields with 3++ So I hope they make the Stormshields -1 to hit or wound, like the galatus shield.
-1 to-wound would be rather much, don'tcha think?

That would mean a Sisters of Battle Bolter would need 216 shots to kill a single Shield Guard at W4.

4 failed saves
24 wounds
144 hits
216 shots

I mean, yes, you're not supposed to take down Custodes with bolters... But when you need just shy of 300 points of Sisters all within 12" of a single squad to do ONE WOUND... That's pretty mean.

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Made in us
Despised Traitorous Cultist





+1 armor save isn't nothing, but when you compare it to the other weapon options, it's not nearly worth the points if it's not also doing something else.

It seems like GW is straying away from 3++ and my guess is the army won't have a flat 4++ but a 5++ instead with some other battleforged buff. Then, the shields would give you 1+/4++ vs the 2+/5++ you'd have otherwise.

Rejoice in the coming oblivion!

Army blog:
Chaos Custodes 
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





In My Lab

Iggy88 wrote:
+1 armor save isn't nothing, but when you compare it to the other weapon options, it's not nearly worth the points if it's not also doing something else.

It seems like GW is straying away from 3++ and my guess is the army won't have a flat 4++ but a 5++ instead with some other battleforged buff. Then, the shields would give you 1+/4++ vs the 2+/5++ you'd have otherwise.
Well, we all know that GW will surely make sure all existing options are well-balanced with one another, right?

...

Right guys?

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Longtime Dakkanaut




 JNAProductions wrote:
 nordsturmking wrote:
I doubt we will keep the shields with 3++ So I hope they make the Stormshields -1 to hit or wound, like the galatus shield.
-1 to-wound would be rather much, don'tcha think?

That would mean a Sisters of Battle Bolter would need 216 shots to kill a single Shield Guard at W4.

4 failed saves
24 wounds
144 hits
216 shots

I mean, yes, you're not supposed to take down Custodes with bolters... But when you need just shy of 300 points of Sisters all within 12" of a single squad to do ONE WOUND... That's pretty mean.


-1 to wound would be bonkers and introduce another problem of internal balance: nobody would ever take the spears....again. I want them to be finally viable.

-1 to hit in melee like the Galatus shield is nice, but with the stupid cap to modifiers, it's just not a very valuable rule...

No re-rolls to hit against our storm shields would be something I can get behind.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Iggy88 wrote:
+1 armor save isn't nothing, but when you compare it to the other weapon options, it's not nearly worth the points if it's not also doing something else.

It seems like GW is straying away from 3++ and my guess is the army won't have a flat 4++ but a 5++ instead with some other battleforged buff. Then, the shields would give you 1+/4++ vs the 2+/5++ you'd have otherwise.


Yeah I don't think they can take away our 4++ and just give us one extra wound. We'd need some ridiculous additional buff to make up for losing the 4++.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/21 20:51:14


 
   
Made in us
Despised Traitorous Cultist





 JNAProductions wrote:
Iggy88 wrote:
+1 armor save isn't nothing, but when you compare it to the other weapon options, it's not nearly worth the points if it's not also doing something else.

It seems like GW is straying away from 3++ and my guess is the army won't have a flat 4++ but a 5++ instead with some other battleforged buff. Then, the shields would give you 1+/4++ vs the 2+/5++ you'd have otherwise.
Well, we all know that GW will surely make sure all existing options are well-balanced with one another, right?

...

Right guys?


No, I know. But I can hope.

I think the idea that they'll get a flat 4++ is too optimistic. The rumor says they'll lose the +1 invul, so I don't see that implying they'll get a flat 4++ and lose the +1.

Rejoice in the coming oblivion!

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Chaos Custodes 
   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!






Even if we loose the +1 invun the terminators are gonna stay at a 4++ since everyone's cataphracti terminator armor is at a 4++ (DG, TS, relic marine).

Not sure what they will do for the bikes though, as if they go down to a 5++, even with a +1 wound buff, they would still be pretty overcosted.

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Made in dk
Regular Dakkanaut




I mean, if they cut the +1 to ++ saves and gives us one more wound, then custodes won't feel like demi-gods and they should. I think GW feels likewise.

im not even sure flat 4++ and another wound would be as tough as the current rules. sword n board guys do feel rather godlike but dont have much utility apart from being hard to remove. one pistol shot and 3 s5 attacks is rather miserable in any meta but especially in this one.

Our terminators have 4++ and 4w and we all know how they melt to serious fire. So maybe we'll be another -1 dam army? How would the layering of 4++ and 5+++ work for our dudes? I dont see that happening, though, as they got rid of all that dice rolling with the DG codes. Reintroduing it for another army would be weird.
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




I don't see us getting any major changes to Invuln, but I could see them saying we have a "Jink" mechanic in the form of a strat, -2 to hit if the unit made a move of at least 7", including charge, pile in, movement, and Heroic intervention. Say 2cp. That would give us viability to keep moving and not just sit on objectives and win.
   
Made in dk
Regular Dakkanaut




well, it would also be against the intrinsic mechanics of ninth with to hit mods capping out at -1 so I wouldn't count on that solution.

also, why seven inches and why such a convoluted wording with pile in, charge, heroic? I want leaner text in 40k. not more complicated wordings.
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




I'll be honest, I don't see GW keeping our Telemon the top dog in the future. GW seems lazer focused on making 9th a Infantry vs infantry game. I see bikes getting a nerf as well.
   
Made in at
Longtime Dakkanaut




FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I'll be honest, I don't see GW keeping our Telemon the top dog in the future. GW seems lazer focused on making 9th a Infantry vs infantry game. I see bikes getting a nerf as well.


Oh lighten up and stop it with your doom and gloom about or new codex all the time. All 9th ed codices have recieved some buffs, so let's try and stay optimistic until we know for a fact our book sucks and everything got nerfed, I'll join you in complaining then.
   
Made in gb
Mighty Brass Scorpion of Khorne





Why Aye Ya Canny Dakkanaughts!

So the previous leak of a GSC vs Custodes release with a new Custodes lieutenant has been somewhat confirmed by a leak of the actual custodes model. Does this basically then cement the other leaks then? Losing 3++, +1W, etc.

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 Marmatag wrote:
All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
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Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high

 mrhappyface wrote:
So the previous leak of a GSC vs Custodes release with a new Custodes lieutenant has been somewhat confirmed by a leak of the actual custodes model. Does this basically then cement the other leaks then? Losing 3++, +1W, etc.


I doubt those leaks were anything of substance. But the box set may be confirmed perhaps.

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MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum. 
   
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 iGuy91 wrote:
 mrhappyface wrote:
So the previous leak of a GSC vs Custodes release with a new Custodes lieutenant has been somewhat confirmed by a leak of the actual custodes model. Does this basically then cement the other leaks then? Losing 3++, +1W, etc.


I doubt those leaks were anything of substance. But the box set may be confirmed perhaps.


Whatever happens I think it's fair to assume that come Saturday and warhammer fest, we'll at least know if the GSC vs Custodes box is legit or not.

As for the reddit leaks about our codex contents: I'm with iguy there...I'll believe those if I actually see them in the codex.

If the "leaked" image of the Custodes mini turns out to be legit, I'll be a happy cat I think, because the pose looks kinda cool and I wanted to see a custodian with a two handed sword for a long time anyway.
   
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Bath

Tiberias wrote:
 iGuy91 wrote:
 mrhappyface wrote:
So the previous leak of a GSC vs Custodes release with a new Custodes lieutenant has been somewhat confirmed by a leak of the actual custodes model. Does this basically then cement the other leaks then? Losing 3++, +1W, etc.


I doubt those leaks were anything of substance. But the box set may be confirmed perhaps.


Whatever happens I think it's fair to assume that come Saturday and warhammer fest, we'll at least know if the GSC vs Custodes box is legit or not.

As for the reddit leaks about our codex contents: I'm with iguy there...I'll believe those if I actually see them in the codex.

If the "leaked" image of the Custodes mini turns out to be legit, I'll be a happy cat I think, because the pose looks kinda cool and I wanted to see a custodian with a two handed sword for a long time anyway.


auspex has just done a vid on it, and he points out that it matches a GW silhouette form the reveal banner almost perfectly, if form a very slightly different angle. so, yhea, i'd say hes legit our new custodes "lieutenant" model. I hope to god hes not fluffed as a lieutenant, because thats pretty against how the Ten Thousand operate (being a very flat command structure because custodes are too elite to need junior leaders, etc), but he might be more of a champion/duellist, which i can see working.

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O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
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Longtime Dakkanaut




xerxeskingofking wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
 iGuy91 wrote:
 mrhappyface wrote:
So the previous leak of a GSC vs Custodes release with a new Custodes lieutenant has been somewhat confirmed by a leak of the actual custodes model. Does this basically then cement the other leaks then? Losing 3++, +1W, etc.


I doubt those leaks were anything of substance. But the box set may be confirmed perhaps.


Whatever happens I think it's fair to assume that come Saturday and warhammer fest, we'll at least know if the GSC vs Custodes box is legit or not.

As for the reddit leaks about our codex contents: I'm with iguy there...I'll believe those if I actually see them in the codex.

If the "leaked" image of the Custodes mini turns out to be legit, I'll be a happy cat I think, because the pose looks kinda cool and I wanted to see a custodian with a two handed sword for a long time anyway.


auspex has just done a vid on it, and he points out that it matches a GW silhouette form the reveal banner almost perfectly, if form a very slightly different angle. so, yhea, i'd say hes legit our new custodes "lieutenant" model. I hope to god hes not fluffed as a lieutenant, because thats pretty against how the Ten Thousand operate (being a very flat command structure because custodes are too elite to need junior leaders, etc), but he might be more of a champion/duellist, which i can see working.


I think the leaks just called him a "lieutenant" for lack of a better word or description. Call me gullible but I still have enough faith in GW for them not to call one of the ten thousand a lieutenant.
Based on the pose I agree that he seems like some champion/duellist like you said. Forget for a second if we need such a thing competitively.....I want it.
   
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I dunno, he looks like a basic custodian with a sword in a special mono-pose. I really don't see the point of a single sword model HQ/Elite unit. It's basically a completely pointless unit. Unless this thing hits like a mini-Belakor, he might be kinda useless in melee. Maybe they come with the ability to insert into larger units? I don't see the point of single model units for our army. Hey, maybe the GSC/C box set will only be 9 models, 8 GSC guys and one of these. That would be hilarious.
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I dunno, he looks like a basic custodian with a sword in a special mono-pose. I really don't see the point of a single sword model HQ/Elite unit. It's basically a completely pointless unit. Unless this thing hits like a mini-Belakor, he might be kinda useless in melee. Maybe they come with the ability to insert into larger units? I don't see the point of single model units for our army. Hey, maybe the GSC/C box set will only be 9 models, 8 GSC guys and one of these. That would be hilarious.


Don't be such a downer, we literally don't know anything about that new model. He might not be a melee beatstick at all, but more of a buffing character who gives our other guys boni to advance and/or charge. Seems to me like you only have negative outlooks towards our 9th ed update, why? There is no indicator whatsoever that we'll somehow get a worse treatment than other factions who already got a new codex.
   
Made in us
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Because GW has treated the entire community like a fething Actiblizz Live service, where they can dangle crap that has already been done, or at worst is just a reprint of 8ths version, and drip feed it to us, then wrap it in FOMO, then overcharge it.

But sure, be excited for the literal manifestation of the joke/meme that people have been using to knock GW's model releases for the last three years. We GOT A NEW LT model! /q
   
Made in eu
Longtime Dakkanaut




FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Because GW has treated the entire community like a fething Actiblizz Live service, where they can dangle crap that has already been done, or at worst is just a reprint of 8ths version, and drip feed it to us, then wrap it in FOMO, then overcharge it.

But sure, be excited for the literal manifestation of the joke/meme that people have been using to knock GW's model releases for the last three years. We GOT A NEW LT model! /q


I'm sorry you feel that way. If have such a negative experience with GW and the hobby, maybe you would benefit from taking a break from 40k for a little bit. I honestly don't mean that in any condescending way, but most of your posts in this thread for quite some time now have been you worrying about us getting a bad codex or no codex at all and that can't be healthy.

I'm not implying btw that GW is such a shiny example of a customer friendly company, but I don't think they are this evil, mustache twirling villain either like some make them out to be.
Would I like to see more new releases for us than "just" a new character? Yes, sure. But I can still be happy about a (hopefully) cool new model for our bananaboys.

Edit: just to get this clear, I'm also not implying that you can't or shouldn't be critical of GW or any other company for that matter, but it shouldn't dampen your enjoyment of the hobby in such a way that it's the main thing you associate with it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/26 19:08:16


 
   
Made in us
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Auckland, NZ

 mrhappyface wrote:
So the previous leak of a GSC vs Custodes release with a new Custodes lieutenant has been somewhat confirmed by a leak of the actual custodes model. Does this basically then cement the other leaks then? Losing 3++, +1W, etc.

Just to be clear, you're talking about two separate sets of rumors.
The one that predicted a GSC vs Custodes box would exist (with a new character for each) is from a set of leaks covering GWs release schedule, which has proven to be highly accurate over the past couple of months.
However the rumors that predicted the stat changes have totally unknown reliability. It's quite possibly just someones wishlisting. We won't know whether any of it is accurate until GW releases articles with details that coincide with or contradict some of its claims.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/26 19:48:51


 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




Tiberias wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Because GW has treated the entire community like a fething Actiblizz Live service, where they can dangle crap that has already been done, or at worst is just a reprint of 8ths version, and drip feed it to us, then wrap it in FOMO, then overcharge it.

But sure, be excited for the literal manifestation of the joke/meme that people have been using to knock GW's model releases for the last three years. We GOT A NEW LT model! /q


I'm sorry you feel that way. If have such a negative experience with GW and the hobby, maybe you would benefit from taking a break from 40k for a little bit. I honestly don't mean that in any condescending way, but most of your posts in this thread for quite some time now have been you worrying about us getting a bad codex or no codex at all and that can't be healthy.

I'm not implying btw that GW is such a shiny example of a customer friendly company, but I don't think they are this evil, mustache twirling villain either like some make them out to be.
Would I like to see more new releases for us than "just" a new character? Yes, sure. But I can still be happy about a (hopefully) cool new model for our bananaboys.

Edit: just to get this clear, I'm also not implying that you can't or shouldn't be critical of GW or any other company for that matter, but it shouldn't dampen your enjoyment of the hobby in such a way that it's the main thing you associate with it.


Awesome, it's the patented "If you don't like the hobby, then leave" post. I did leave. I went to AoS. And it was much better, until GW dropped 3.0 and then refused to actually print copies of the new book that is required to play, and put the app with warscrolls behind a paywall. 9th is essentially the same. Now I'm being told "Rejoice! We are getting a new model!" And it's a LT!

I am honestly not sure why you are the complaint police all of the sudden. Every time I bash GW you show up and claim I'm over reacting. I fully admit I've been hyperbolic to an extreme in the past, but this is silly.
   
Made in at
Longtime Dakkanaut




FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Because GW has treated the entire community like a fething Actiblizz Live service, where they can dangle crap that has already been done, or at worst is just a reprint of 8ths version, and drip feed it to us, then wrap it in FOMO, then overcharge it.

But sure, be excited for the literal manifestation of the joke/meme that people have been using to knock GW's model releases for the last three years. We GOT A NEW LT model! /q


I'm sorry you feel that way. If have such a negative experience with GW and the hobby, maybe you would benefit from taking a break from 40k for a little bit. I honestly don't mean that in any condescending way, but most of your posts in this thread for quite some time now have been you worrying about us getting a bad codex or no codex at all and that can't be healthy.

I'm not implying btw that GW is such a shiny example of a customer friendly company, but I don't think they are this evil, mustache twirling villain either like some make them out to be.
Would I like to see more new releases for us than "just" a new character? Yes, sure. But I can still be happy about a (hopefully) cool new model for our bananaboys.

Edit: just to get this clear, I'm also not implying that you can't or shouldn't be critical of GW or any other company for that matter, but it shouldn't dampen your enjoyment of the hobby in such a way that it's the main thing you associate with it.


Awesome, it's the patented "If you don't like the hobby, then leave" post. I did leave. I went to AoS. And it was much better, until GW dropped 3.0 and then refused to actually print copies of the new book that is required to play, and put the app with warscrolls behind a paywall. 9th is essentially the same. Now I'm being told "Rejoice! We are getting a new model!" And it's a LT!

I am honestly not sure why you are the complaint police all of the sudden. Every time I bash GW you show up and claim I'm over reacting. I fully admit I've been hyperbolic to an extreme in the past, but this is silly.


I don't think you fully read my post. I clearly did not phrase it in the way you describe it and I even clarified as much.
   
 
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