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Continuing Rumors of WHFB 9th (Post-End Times) in Early Summer 2015  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in us
Sharp-shooting Foundation Sheriff

Raleigh, NC

Greetings everyone,

As this topic continues to develop, both from new rumors and information gleaned from the WHFB End Times books, I will continue to add/delete information as it becomes available.

The newest information is at the top, while older rumors/information will be at the bottom.


Confirmed Destruction of the Old World via END TIMES: Archaon:

Wonderwolf wrote:
 Charles Rampant wrote:
Is anyone able (and willing) to quickly summarise the end state of the Old World? Do we have that information yet? I assume that it is bad news since, you know, End Times.

There you go. Spoilers. Obviously.


Original Series of Rumors in January- Harry and Darnok's original information about this future release:

I have copied the original source from Darnok over on Warseer below. As there seem to be a number of sources coming out leading to further developments in this story, I will continue to added them below the main article in spoilers.

Darnok wrote:If you like Warhammer, I suggest you better take a seat.

Over the last few months I got a few glimpses on what WHF could change to in the very near future. I have collected messages, asked questions, and tried to form a somewhat coherent picture. The one thing I believe by now is: Warhammer in its current form will no longer be supported by GW. It will be transformed into something else, with everything built up in background and most of the model range being kicked out of the door.

To give you an insight into some of the messages I got, have a look at the following. Please note that I am paraphrasing at times, and have cut out (hopefully) everything that could lead to the original identities of my friendly birdies.

Quote Originally Posted by Birdy
- 9th Edition to pick up where the ET leaves off in fluff, plus a couple of hundred years or so (to reboot the setting).

- The Warhammer World gets shattered on a dimensional level during the climax of the ET. No more "map of the Old World" - it's now little bubbles of reality, where pockets of civilisation try desperately to eke a living before the next collision with another bubble, which may be full of Chaos. (To address the problem of "how come my Tomb Kings of Khemri are fighting against Wood Elves from Athel Loren?", not that I get the impression that either of those will still exist, but you get the idea)

- New faction... heavily armoured, religious, "good" human warriors fighting with the power of the gods. (Warhammer Space Marines, basically). Karl Franz Ascended seems to be the prototype or precursor for this concept, AFAICT.
Quote Originally Posted by Another Birdy
9th edition will have 6 factions. Model diversity cut in half shelf space. New world and new age so current factions and lore aren't recognizable at all. Each new faction has like 3 core units that will always be on the shelf. Much faster releases of stuff, mainly characters and special units of 2-5 fancy models (like Morghasts) that have their own rules right in the box, so not dependent on a static army book. Many of the these non-core models are only available for a limited time (say 6 months to a year), so they don't take up shelf space forever and ever. Many existing models are not usable in 9th.
Quote Originally Posted by Birdy #3
We can expect the next edition of Fantasy to throw everything up in the air. The whole End Times move has been to wean people onto a whole new take on the Warhammer world and it's going to start with every army being "chaosified". We can expect army play styles and appearance to change quite dramatically and there will be a whole load of new models being released early on to tie everything together. This has caused quite a stir back at GW HQ as there are a lot of people behind the scenes (some of which are very well known to us) who don't like the changes that have been made. I have also been told that the models due to be released are some of the best to date!
Add to that (and by "Birdy Prime" I mean my best source so far):

Quote Originally Posted by Birdy Prime
'9th' [or] whatever is next for fantasy [...] coming 2015 in the summer. The new faction [plus] future releases after this point for five 'existing' factions (which plus this would make six) […] but I think there will be [...] more.
As you can see, it will be drastic. It seems like those „Spanish rumours“ might have had some more flesh on them than I thought: I am by now sorry for my sometimes nasty words about them. And despite my remorse about ever mentioning it, I think my statement about a „ragestorm of epic proportions“ could have been correct after all.

This whole thing will turn out to be either correct or not in less than six months. Hopefully we can get over our worst emotions until then.

P.S.: I have sat on most of this since right before Christmas, but decided I didn't want to ruin anybodies holidays. I also had high hopes for somebody relieving me from this stuff... but that hope was lost.

Link: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?404065-Warhammer-And-Now-For-Something-Completely-Different

January 7th, 2015

In addition, here is another rumor posted by Harry over on Warseer a number of months ago that appears fairly consistent with Darnok's info (spoilered to keep the post from becoming unwieldly):

 Ozymandias wrote:

For the lazy:

Harry wrote:About six months .... but i first heard about ita good six months before I posted that.
Sometimes it is not all that cryptic .....

I tried to find some of my old posts about this. i have posted about this 6 months, 12 months and 18 months ago. But many of my recent posts have been deleted.???

In the end I had to go find some of what I had said on BOLS Forum where Big red had quoted me from here. (Thanks Red)

OK, here's one for you .....

Chaos Vs "Humans".

Quote Originally Posted by Tozudos a Dieces:
I've just read The fall of Altdorf.


At least fluff-wise, nothing's gonna be again the same. It all will change. All.

Harry: You are not wrong there fella. That is what I have been saying.

Quote Originally Posted by Ludaman:
Awesome! Thanks Harry! I may be way off, but that sounds like the contents of a new starter Box to me.

Harry: We have been playing this game together for too many years.

Big Red: So first up, Harry called the End Times and Glottkin by name over 6 months out. So when he says something, you should take it as much more serious than garden variety rumors.

This insinuation of new boxed sets and unified "Human" factions all feeds back into Harry's earlier speculation on GW utterly shattering the game with the End Times series, to produce a very different environment and game on the other side of the series.

After months of absence, the BEST rumormonger out there returns to talk about the End Times of Warhammer Fantasy:

Harry's BACK from the wilderness!

Harry: You may remember last year I was being very vague about some 'radical changes' in a thread about 9th edition.

Back at the start of the year, in one of my first posts of the new year I said this:

I don't think they are trying to destroy it.
I suspect they will be trying their hardest to breath new life into it.
We are not seeing the "End times" for Warhammer just yet.

Did you see what I did there?
The clues are always there fellas.

So I first heard about all this last autumn?
I was told 2014 would be "Year zero" for Warhammer.

Had no idea what that meant at first but if you Google your way to the wikipedia you get this:

The term Year Zero, applied to the takeover of Cambodia in April 1975 by the Khmer Rouge, is an analogy to the Year One of the French Revolutionary Calendar. During the French Revolution, after the abolition of the French monarchy (September 20, 1792), the National Convention instituted a new calendar and declared the beginning of the Year I. The Khmer Rouge takeover of Phnom Penh was rapidly followed by a series of drastic revolutionary de-industrialization policies resulting in a death toll that vastly exceeded that of the French Reign of Terror.

The idea behind Year Zero is that all culture and traditions within a society must be completely destroyed or discarded and a new revolutionary culture must replace it, starting from scratch. All history of a nation or people before Year Zero is deemed largely irrelevant, as it will (as an ideal) be purged and replaced from the ground up.

It was made clear to me that this was what we were talking about for warhammer.
Everything that existed being completely destroyed (or discarded) and something new replacing it from scratch ... purged and replaced from the ground up.

I hinted in various posts that they would be getting rid of the existing timeline, the existing map, etc. (In an effort to soften the blow. )

I am going to get this a bit wrong because I honestly can't remember where I heard it but to confirm the three book rumour .... I did hear the "End times" were going to be spread over three books.

Nagash was the first, followed by Malekith followed by Glotkin

Good luck with that!

...You have to ask yourself .... What will remain of the world as we know it when it has been ravaged in turn by the Undead, the Dark Elves, Skaven, and Chaos?

...Whatever 9th is it will be set in the grimmest, darkest post apocalyptic Warhammer fantasy world yet.

You think I haven't had all the same thoughts being voiced on here?

I can't see them throwing out everything they have done either ... but the only way to own the IP is to loose all the generic Fantasy that other companies can copy ... normal Dwarves, Elves and sure as heck you have to get rid of the historical based human armies ... or you can go build an Empire or Bretonnian army from anyone's miniatures.
I can't see them getting rid of any armies either ... but they can not continue to support all of them so some of them have to go or some get mashed together.
I can't see them wanting to reduce the number of minis you need .... but if it costs too much to complete an army people don't even start an army ...so is it better to sell some minis for a scaled down game or no minis? Is it better to ramp up the Lords and monsters allowance and keep on selling the big kits so an army is 'more tanks and less infantry' and thus less minis and easier to paint .... or sell no minis.
Simple fact is so many people have so many armies now unless they do something drastic with the look of the armies no-one is buying enough minis. The only way to force folks to buy new stuff is if we cannot use our current stuff. Some folks may refuse to buy the new stuff on principal ..... what do they care? They were not buying the stuff anyway as they already had their army. Imagine how badly Fantasy must be selling compared to 40K if anyone even thought about knocking it on the head for even a moment .... they must be thinking .... it can't make things any worse!!! What have we got to loose??? But if they are doing this why even bother completing 8th edition? Why do all the books?

I have been around and around with this in my head ..... the only thing that makes any sense to me at the end of the day is that 8th edition is complete enough and robust enough to endure a bit longer and 9th edition will not be a complete new edition of the rules .... but an alternative background and rules with which to play post End times battles but you still need the core rules to play A bit like all the stuff in Strom of Magic was an add on to the existing rules. The core rules and books will still exist for those that want to remain stuck in the timeline but if you want to be down with the cool kids you really need to buy the new post End Times stuff.

I don't know what else I can add to this.
I don't have all the answers.

But for what its worth .... I think it will be round bases.
First said that on here more than 18 months ago .... when someone guessed very close to the mark about WFB becoming a skirmish game.

I have added in the Warhammer Fantasy rumors that pretre keeps compiled, as he posted them a few pages into the thread (also spoilered):

 pretre wrote:
Warhammer Fantasy Rumors

via a very solid source on Faeit 212
Let me give you some confirmation:
The setting is being completely overhauled - true.
The concept of a huge chunks of the world in a sea similar to the warp from 40k - true.
Faction reduction to 6 - true

As for how it interacts with the current rules.
9th edition takes place after the sundering that brought about from the End Times.

So for the purposes of compatibility, you can use your 8th edition hardback book, representing a section of the culture that hasn't been horrifically changed by the End Times (Recognizing it will have the same drawbacks of using a dated book that are experienced elsewhere).

You can use End Times rules/concepts, representing a section that is still being torn apart.

You can use the new, post-end times rules to represent what is "current."

All the books (again, with the caveat that older books may not be optimal for the new core rules [but truthfully the core rules aren't changing wildly, like 5th to 6th edition 40k, really more of a tidied up 8th edition with a brand new setting]) are designed to be compatible.

Support will be towards the new book, new setting, however, with End Times being in the past. Viable, but not current.

Expect armies to have fewer units in their core books, which will be heavily focused on the fluff for where they are now, what they've been doing in the centuries immediately following the sundering. This will create a more "balanced" pool as they will be rapidly produced and released (consider a scale even somewhat faster than what we've had for 40k these past few years).

These will then be expanded on with supplements, not intended as money-grabs (as I am sure they will be received by the majority of your readers), but more as guided hands to acknowledge deficiencies in books, or even "global meta" changes. The first time that Games Workshop will be openly acknowledging things that need changes.

These units will typically get white dwarf rules treatments heralding the release in hardback of all of the new units from the previous month(s), for a new setting expansion, which will pit several of the races together (representing a collision).

As these expansions are not permanent in the world, so too will these models not be. They are intended to only get one template injection mold life-run, the same as the books will be printed only once in hardback, then delayed paperback.

They will of course remain legal throughout all of 9th, they will just be more limited eventually, the same as the end time models will not be available forever, the same as XYZ model is no longer available (just with a shorter life span than previous experienced). I mean... you can't get albion models anymore either, but that campaign was before people whined on the internet, so I guess that's why no one's complaining.

This will allow for more new models, as contrary to common belief, the storage and rejuvenation of these templates takes a lot of resources which can be instead dedicated to new ones.

On the topic of round bases. The latest version I saw used round bases, but units had the option of ranking up to receive the typical bonuses. To rank up using round bases, it is intended to use new movement trays which have circular cuts to hold the bases of the appropriate size.

Nothing stops you from (and in many ways you are encouraged to) maintain unit formation the entire game. But you don't have to. Note that throughout all of Warhammer Fantasy, changing width/depth was an option, it's just rarely seen.

So to summarize - you can skirmish, but it's in your interests to rank up for different reasons, like shield walling before a charge for instance. You can alternatively always hold a formation and move the way we're all used to.


This will be a very big change. It is not because GW doesn't care about its old players and just wants to attract new ones. It is not to fill a void that will come from the fading of Lord of the Rings (which will remain in stores and be supported for a long time due to the agreement with New Line Cinemas).

It is just a very fresh look at a game that hasn't changed dramatically in how it's played since the dawn of the game and company. It will give everyone the opportunity and hopefully inspiration to do something new, but without invalidating everything from the past. It is opening room for creativity, not closing doors.

Yes, army books will eventually feel too out of date to play, but that's the same with any new edition. And new Army Books will typically allow people to recreate what they're "used to" it just might not be the most effective thing they could do with their new book.

The new faction are basically the opposite of warriors of chaos, but good the way chaos marines are the opposite of space marines but evil (in terms of broad tropes, I really hope this doesn't spawn some kind of debate about the morality of space marines).

Lastly, nothing stops you from just playing 8th, and ignoring 9th the same way some people ignore End Times. Just understand that unlike Storm of Chaos which was post-production looked at as an "alternate timeline" where the clock was turned back to right before it took place for the purposes of the setting, the End Times are real, and 9th will begin where it left off.

More information added on from Earlybird on BOLS (possibly less-reliable rumor-monger):

 RiTides wrote:
Has this bit been discussed yet? From the bottom of this BOLS article, and attributed to Earlybird. Just sounds like piling on existing rumors, but still worth noting:


from the horse mouth

factions :

1) Chaos : Demons + Beasts + Mortals
2) Elves
3) Empire
4) Undead
5) Orcs and Goblins
6) Skavens

Lizards are gone in space.
Dwarves survivors join the empire with the ogres.

1) Chaos core : Warriors of chaos/chariot/Hounds
Demons figs will be kept as they are usable in 40k
Bye bye marauders, ungors, centigors, razorgor etc

2) Elves core : spearmen/archers/cavalry on horse
No more xbows
the 3 elves will blend in one faction
dark elves monsters are gone : cold ones, hydra

3) Empire core: Hallberds/Handgun/Canon
Some dwarves survivors and ogres are included
Imperial and bretonnian knights are merged

4) Undead core : Skeletons/Ghouls/Spirit host
bye bye bone giant, scorpion sphinx, chariots and everything too much egyptian

5) Orcs and goblins core : Goblins/Orcs/Black orcs
no real change for them

6) Skaven core : Clanrats/Plague rats/Rat ogres
no real change for them too

The following is a rumor on Warseer from a Spanish website pertaining to the lore of WHFB 9th:

 chochky wrote:
[spoiler]I don't know if this has been mentioned on this thread already (haven't kept up with all 20+ pages), but do you guys remember the spanish rumors thread posted on Warseer early last fall?


Here's some of what those rumors claimed:

Originally Posted by Wonderwolf
A rumour from a spanish site (found here: http://www.cargad.com/index.php/2014...aba-warhammer/ )

They were the first to mention a release of Nagash / End Times campaign (May 29th), but did so in a context saying that this End Times campaign would be the lead to a closure of "Warhammer" (presumably WFB, not 40K), followed by a subsequent new skirmish game (presumably fantasy-ish-themed) in 2015


Originally Posted by cazzz669
So, just got off the horn with a contact at GW who apparently has just come out of a briefing regarding the future of WHF
in May 2015 after the End of Times WHF will become a skirmish game centered around surviving warbands after the "armegeddon" of the fantasy world as a result of the End of Times.
Chaos decimate the Empire
Nagash and co decimate Brettonia
Ulthuan sinks
there will be less army books than currently ( no idea if this means imalgimation armies )

appreciate I do not post very often so will doubtless recieve a whole load of flame for this post BUT given i literally just got told it, thought some people here would appreciate me sharing..
Personally I hope to god this is all incorrect

That second quote in particular mentions Ulthuan sinking, which happened in the Khaine book. Bear in mind these rumors were posted before the Khaine book was released. The May release date also roughly lines up with Darnok's rumored release date of April (i.e. late spring not summer). All of this, in combination, kind of make these rumors a bit more believable to me... and have made me a lot more concerned.

January 11th, 2015

Another compilation of WHFB rumors debate between Harry and another Warseer poster Autumn Leaves:

Warhams-77 wrote:
[spoiler]Harry posted another post compilation about what's going on with WFB

Worth to read

Re: Warhammer - And Now For Something Completely Different

Yay ... found it.
Here is everything that Autumn Leaves and I said about this on a thread over 12 months ago.

Originally Posted by Autumn leaves
It's downright sad.
I love Warhammer and I've loved it for years, probably since before some of the younger members here were born. Sadly WFB has not moved with the times and there are so many other options out there now many players have drifted away to them and stayed away.
I had high hopes for my teenage son to follow in my war hammer footsteps but he is not remotely interested in it. God knows I've tried but he is only interested in 40K and not very much either. I can see his his interest waning and all those 40K box sets I bought for him over the years in a vain effort to drag him into the hobby, and then showed him painstakingly how to put together and paint, they are going to be on eBay shortly. The only systems I have managed to get him interested in are the odd game of Space Hulk (yay) and Mantics 'Dwarf Kings Hold'. The idea being if I can keep him interested in DKH then i can turn him onto Mordheim…. but I digress.

A big part of what has taken so many thousands of war hammer players away from war hammer in the last 5 years is three fold and the reasons have been well explained by other members in this thread.
1) Warhammer fluff is generic with slip shod time lines compared to the much better fluff for 40K.
2)The price point has become too high. Big units cost a small fortune and armies look good and play well with big units. The fiscal outlay is prohibitive at bot the entrant level and for the veteran.
3) More modern games have come out with sleeker design features that interest older players looking for something 'different'. Competition has grown up.

Can GW win ground back for the ailing core game?
Of course they can but not by keeping it the same. Many many changes are required to improve its attractiveness to younger market and with the exceedingly precarious performance, that has seen a wide variety of WFB blisters and box sets being deleted by GW from the Indie retailers trade sales selection very scarily shows how little demand there is for the WFB product in the current climate.
When sales drop this low, and it has been happening for a long time, the axe is never far away.
Thats a reality.
Now I'm picking it will be the axe of change not the axe of final destruction that sees WFB take on a new look appealing to the youngsters as a Skirmishing game like 40K and LOtR. Smaller units,much smaller units. Many pundits see the same change approaching as it fits in with the GW sales format. WFB must start to increase it's profitability.
Change is coming.
To keep things the same means that WFB will go the way of the specialist games. Withering profitability = the end.

Can GW fix WFB under it's current format after years of decline in sales?
Possibly but the single biggest problem they have is to get profitability up they have to make it more appealing to the kids at the entrant level.
That would mean changing the format to bring it into line with the other two systems. Especially 40k.
Making it affordable.

1200 points is a skirmish game.
You need 2000 points to have a decent sized game.
If you really like war hammer skirmish then wait for 2015 and thats exactly what you will get as they repackage WFB for the entrant level market.

I have worked for the company.
I still know people that work for the company at Lenton and other parts of the world. I know some popular individuals who used to work for the company. From time to time all of those folks have been useful in offering insights as to what is coming up soon and to how the Kirby Hive mind thinks.
Common sense will tell us that 40K is not going to undergo any changes significant or otherwise, because it's happily making a great deal of money for the PLC.
WFB on the other hand has been suffering on a global level for a long time now and it needs re-booting to return to profitability.
Why would the PLC not take the easiest road to achieving that, by bringing WFB in to mimic the format that is working spectacularly well for 40K beginners?
Warhammer skirmish to get kids and adults in to play the game.
It makes sense and it lowers the entry cost making it instantly more attractive to a wide social strata of customers.
It won't hurt to finish releasing the army books to flesh out 8th edition and it's a fair call to the collectors of those armies without a book for a loooong time. A nod to the customer base. Nice touch.
I really hope the repackaging of war hammer skirmish works because the entire war gamer hobby benefits from the recruiting done by the GW bricks and mortar stores at a beginner entry level.
Perhaps a swan song…

I see Warhammer fantasy Skirmish starter set as a 'stepping stone' into the bigger war hammer game, perfect for entry level, and then options for growth of the beginners army into something more rewarding in time to come.
I can also see scenario aspects of the skirmish game that would lend itself in a slightly campaign way (each game affects the next) toward the Mordheim feel.
This is not a bad thing people, it could be a great new dawning for a system that drastically needs to be overhauled to catch up to the modern thinking that has moved on over the years.
I'm excited about it.
Perhaps introducing a skirmish style entrant level element in 2015 will give GW design a real chance to have the critical time to reinvent the wheel on WFB.
This last line I found interesting. He almost suggests 9th edition will be a temporary fix why they decide what to do with the Mass fantasy battle game???

Originally Posted by Autumn Leaves
Yeah they did fail with Warhammer skirmish in the past but to be fair that was pitched at an adult market more than an entrant level market.
I'm sure they have done their homework and they will make the new box set more attractive both price wise and game design wise than the previous war hammer skirmish.
Also, warhammer skirmish back in the day was quite an attractive game, but we had a fully supported Mordheim to fall back on. The cross over on other in-house systems was an issue for the older gamers.
No cross over now and an opportunity to get interest kindled in starting into fantasy with a skirmish box set.
I really don't think it's going to be a big problem for the older vets.
A new painting challenge.
A new gaming challenge.
Something that is guaranteed to be finished in a single club night. Maybe even two games O_o

WFB needs to be more accessible to the entrant level. Going to skirmish was the obvious choice, and the right choice.
But the round bases might be another issue..
Here is the first time anyone mentioned Round bases in fantasy.... as soon as he said this I knew he was not guessing ...as this was something I had already heard and you simply would never guess this for fantasy

Originally Posted by Malagor
Autumn Leaves, just because you keep repeating the same nonsense over and over again won't stop it from being nonsense.

Originally Posted by Harry
What if, eventually, he is shown to be the only one talking sense?

Originally Posted by Harry
As I have said repeatedly ... I do not know where the dust settled on all of this. Maybe the starter set is a skirmish game as Mr Leaves suggests ... maybe it's not?
Maybe Warhammer 9th is JUST a skirmish game ... as Mr. Leaves suggests ... Maybe it's not? Maybe they found a way of making it scale up successfully from a few figures in a skirmish encounter to an ambush on the vanguard to a full blown battle between two armies, to an apocalyptic 10,000 point battle of DOOOOOOOM!

That's what I have always done with every rules set (every edition) ... some have needed more bending than others.
It is how we did it in olden times.

I have huge armies of most fantasy armies but have always enjoyed playing small skirmish level games ... often as a prelude to and influencing future bigger games. I use smaller games as a way of focussing on individual units and writing their back story so they become more than just "a unit of 25 spearmen" and become something more ... "Bronzino and the Brown jackets, The veterans of skulldoom pass" etc ... you get the point.

Warhammer's origins were Role playing games ... I have always found it hard to shake that off ... thankfully.

I have been playing more 3rd edition than 8th edition recently ... but I still enjoy 8th edition ... however, the two games have very little to do with each other .... so it's not that big a deal to me if 9th edition is different again.
Just another way to enjoy Warhammer.
I am not saying Yes or No ... I am saying "I don't know".
All I know is they started into a 'ground up' re-write a couple of years ago.
Nothing was sacred. Not the timeline. Not the stat line. They started with a fresh page.
Anything could have changed ... Everything could have changed.
I have heard ... a few things since ... but not enough to say with any certainty what 9th edition will be.
Originally Posted by Autumn Leaves
I said Warhammer Fantasy won't be getting a new edition until 2015 and I also said it's going to be warhammer skirmish game in a similar format to the 40K starter sets and I also said that WFB is only contributing 8% of the overall revenue of GW's annual income in the last 12 months and thats a primary reason why the bean counters in the PLC are demanding some serious change to the former flagship core game.
Yes they are going to be 'rejuvenating' the Warhammer fantasy brand so it's more entrant level friendly for the kids.
I have made my predictions and I totally stand by them.
Watch and wait to see if they come true.
The company is undergoing some serious changes, the WD has been revamped already.

Originally Posted by Harry
Maybe they think they have cracked it with 8th edition (for the time being ... or once every army has a nice shiny new book) and the Skirmish thing for Fantasy (That Autumn leaves suggests) is more like Storm of Magic ... except designed to enable smaller games rather than bigger games ... just adding another dimension to the existing core game... Rather than replacing it. Just a thought.
Originally Posted by Autumn Leaves
Warhammer skirmish will be the gateway for the entrant level customers to be introduced to milieu.
Most of us won't buy it for anything other than the ruleset. I played LotR as a skirmish game but my miniatures were all on square bases and rectangular for the horses, so I could use them in war hammer and other systems.
You can easily buy movement trays for round bases to be ranked up in from the net.

The 8% is not a prediction or a rumour, it's a stone cold fact and the number may very sadly be a little high by the 'summer' of 2014 where GW numbers annually take a nosedive.
Gentlemen, wfb is sinking and not slowly, why… WHY do you think there is so much activity going on in the background around the White Dwarf revamp etc

Parents are not buying into a game for their kids where they are staring down the barrel of hundreds and hundreds of pounds just to build 'one army' on GW's current pricing strategy.
40K or LotR offer a cost ceiling in terms of box sets and whats required to crank out a little game for the entrant level customer.
LotR/The Hobbit is running hot at the box office and it's a self contained skirmish game.
40K does not make demands on the customer to purchase a wide variety of Big units. A couple of squads and a dreadnought or a tank and you're done, chances are most parents are thinking those toys will be in bits at the bottom of the toy box in a couple of months anyway. You know how kids are…
If the child shows a genuine interest then the incremental attachment for either LotR and in particular 40K are user friendly. Another squad and/or another tank/dreadnought/APC and you're all set.
They both play well for the entrant level customers and particularly 40K has enjoyed ongoing success and buoyancy.
Try playing war hammer with a unit of 25 models on each side and a general on a mount for each. With a war machine each.
It's beyond dull.
It's ridiculously expensive for what you get.
The actual customers worldwide who are buying these toys for their kids are not stupid. They can see the amount of money required to play war hammer effectively as it was meant to be played and as it is portrayed in the literature within the stores, i.e. with multiple units on each side and then they look at the boxes, how many figures do you get for how much?
Mums are thinking about the weekly food shop bill and that pair of Jimmy Choo's at the end of the month that hubby doesn't know is on the credit card yet… "Ummm, I think we'll take the space game thank you."
Of course GW are not foolish, the board members know Fantasy has been sick as a pig for a while now and it needs more than a revamp at 8%, it needs a full overhaul. Bar a few tweaks over the years it's essentially the same game designed in the very early 90's for 4th edition.
It's clearly not working and all the indicators are there to tell us it's not going to work until it is changed.
Warhammer skirmish?
It gives the fantasy aspect of GW a chance to compete on a level playing field with 40K in a well priced self contained box set. Father and son can play it in a couple of hours at the dining room table and then son can teach it to his little buddies on the weekend. The budget can stretch to augmenting the model count to keep the boys interested. Job done.
In the meantime GW can flesh out all the army books for 8th edition and win the hearts and minds of elements of the disgruntled older members of the fraternity, and in the meantime, get to work feverishly on WFB 10th edition with an ALL NEW ruleset. Modernised and maximised for excellent quick gameplay. Reasonable levels of items and magic. Skirmishers that don't reinvent the wheel. Cannons that don't come with laser sighting, GPS and night vision et al the list goes on and on…

It will be the game that brings back the grumpy old grognards and joins them with the bubbly fan bois and we can all be happy little peas in a pod once again. 2015 is looking very positive.
Originally Posted by Harry
If Autumn Leaves is correct about the Skirmish thing ...This is the only thing that makes sense to me.
The only reason we are expecting a new edition of Warhammer fantasy Battle is because that is what we have had every few years.

BUT I remember having a conversation with Jervis and Gav .... so this is gong back a few years ... where they stated that they wanted to get Warhammer to the point that it did not need updating/re-writing and they wanted to get all the army books completed in such a way that they were robust enough to survive changes to the rules so they did not need to keep re-writing them. The reason for doing this was to allow them to look at more interesting things to develop aspects of Warhammer they did not have time to do. We discussed the obvious things like Skirmish, Siege, but also fighting on boats, in tunnels/underground, exploring new areas of the map, etc.

Alright this was a few editions and many years ago but what if? What if they feel they have reached that point with 8th. Where a new edition isn't going to change very much. Where every army has a book. What if they decide NOT to do a new edition but stick with Warhammer 8th as it is ... consider this the finished product for a while. .... What would they explore next?

We already have "Storm of Magic" for 'Big magic, Big Monster' games.

Maybe they would look next at Skirmish? (Autumn Leaves seems convinced).

So no new BRB ... as rumoured. But a new starter set ... as rumoured.
Not needing full army books but where all the armies could be combined in less books ... as rumoured. Would certainly be the way to present warband options.


I was still left with some of the other stuff I had heard about the timeline advancing and multiple books. (Will it be two, three or four books?)
A recent conversation prompted a new line of thought ....
and started to make a different kind of sense to me.

What if this was nothing to to with the next edition .... but a "what would they explore next?"
What if they decided to explore different area of the world or different periods of history? Source books for playing warhammer in different times and places.
Same game ... same rules set just changing the setting a bit ... bit like the Lustria stuff.

An excuse to explore some new special rules, introduce some new characters, new monsters, exploring some undiscovered corner of the world or some undescribed period of history ... currently little more than a dot on the map or a story in an army book. A chance to undertake some new modelling projects, sculpt some new minis.
One book might be 500 years ahead, one 500 years the past (or exploring some key point in recent history). One might be based in an area of the world which has not been detailed yet. (Like the Lustrian stuff).

This started to make some sort of sense to me ... but it was late at night.

What if? What if you a games Developer for Warhammer fantasy? What if you were told you didn't need to write an new edition or rewrite an army book? Where would you go next? What aspect of Warhammer would you like to explore?
My guesswork here almost describing 'bubbles'

Originally Posted by Harry
I don't think they are trying to destroy it.
I suspect they will be trying their hardest to breath new life into it.
We are not seeing the end times for Warhammer just yet.

I'll leave you all to it.

This message was edited 17 times. Last update was at 2015/03/12 20:19:37

Made in eg
Keeper of the Adeptus Arbites Flame

Cairo, Egypt

Isn't there another rumor of round bases floating around?

I think round bases would piss off more fans than blowing up the entire Olde Worlde.

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Sniping Reverend Moira

Cincinnati, Ohio

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Isn't there another rumor of round bases floating around?

I think round bases would piss off more fans than blowing up the entire Olde Worlde.

Agreed. When/If it happens I'm going to be unhappy about rebasing my stuff. Either that, or I'll totally be sticking with 8E, which I like.

Made in gb
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps


Darnok wrote:
... Many of the these non-core models are only available for a limited time (say 6 months to a year), so they don't take up shelf space forever and ever. Many existing models are not usable in 9th ...

If this is even remotely true

"Here you are long term fans, your armies are no longer usable. Hahahahahaha"

Also, Ebayers will love this...
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The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body

Devon, UK

Yep, look out for EBay seller "tkirby68" as a steady supply of OOP Warhammer kits in about two years time!

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All of this sounds horrible.

Hard to believe that GW would effectively kill off WFB but, well, stranger things...

If true, so much for 9th Edition 'saving WFB'!

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Mutilatin' Mad Dok

It's interesting, but we still don't have firm Necron rumors and they come out at the end of this month. I'm not worried... yet.

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Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps


I have to say, the business model that I'm picturing sounds like true evil genius. Built in obsolescence of the models. They are good for 6 months and a new supplement rules them no longer valid. Instead you have to buy a new kit that's replaced them.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/01/06 21:07:32

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Longtime Dakkanaut

North Carolina

That seems rather drastic. If GW thinks that WHFB isn't worth supporting as is, why not just drop it altogether? Why selectively stop supporting or manufacturing kits that they can still produce in favor of spending money developing new kits and replacing WHFB with a new fantasy game? Why would they drop a faction like Ogre Kingdoms for example if they still have usable molds to make the kits? That just strikes me as counter productive.

Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
Made in us
Experienced Saurus Scar-Veteran

California the Southern

Maybe this will finally inspire the Slann and their lizard kin to finally develop the concept of clothes and armor. That would absolutely make my day.

I'd be curious to see how this all plays out if true. Dumping just about every single army out there to sell new (and obviously more expensive) models? Sounds like a plan!

I wonder if we'd see smaller quantities of figures on the table as well. If there's less, you can sell them for more too. And make them incredibly large as well to continue to push the price up.

Poorly lit photos of my ever- growing collection of completely unrelated models!

Watch and listen to me ramble about these minis before ruining them with paint!
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Fixture of Dakka

So it basically combines the sales method of MTG with the price points of GW stuff.

I expect the only people who could afford such a thing would be too busy enjoying their classic car collection or sailing their luxury yacht to have time for WFB.

"The Omnissiah is my Moderati" 
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Experienced Saurus Scar-Veteran

California the Southern

Why not just go with a rebranding then? Will it even be fantasy any more?

With talk of things going more steampunk with Boneripper's robotic legs, the Warmahordes competition, it all makes me wonder if we'll still see any of the more traditional high fantasy tropes.

Poorly lit photos of my ever- growing collection of completely unrelated models!

Watch and listen to me ramble about these minis before ruining them with paint!
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Decrepit Dakkanaut


I find myself largely unconvinced,

although it's not impossible GW would give something like this a try as the alternative to dumping Fantasy totally

(if perhaps the sales are even worse than we realise and the numbers have hit the old specialist games territory where GW thinks them not worth the effort)

Made in us
Serious Squig Herder

I wondered if End Times was leading to something like this. From GW's perspective it makes sense - Fantasy doesn't sell nearly as well. So instead of being "roughly" equal - trim the hell out of the number of armies, etc available for it.

So you'll have 6 well-supported armies instead of the 12 or so available now some of which almost never receive updates.

And it also frees GW up from making a lot of minis - for instance, all the crap that needs done in the Beastman range gets dropped as they get folded into the Chaos book - just keeping the Gors/Minotaurs/other newer plastic kits. Or instead of doing a badly needed remake of the awful High Elf core plastics, now all elves use the much nicer Dark Elf core, and High Elf units are relegated to Special slots.

From a fan perspective its, of course, sad, sad, sad. But GW sees all the shelf space they free up for more Space Marines.

I suspect my army, Ogres, will be disbanded. With the core infantry kits being allowed to be taken as merc units in all armies. Or folded into Green Skins.

What do you think we'll be left with?
Chaos - Woc, Beastmen, Demons
"Man" - Empire, Brets, Dwarves
Greenskins - O&G, Ogres?
Skaven - always popular, one of GW's "unique" race
Elves - already seeing signs of this one
Undead - ditto

Lizardmen fly into space?
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain

The Rock

Hmm.. seems a bit of a silly rumour but with the End Times stuff going on it feels an awful lot like they're trying to minimize the number of armies available. ie All Elfkind working together, Nagash running the Undead show, Empire and Bretonnians combining forces. Dwarfs might stay as an independent force (possibly- assuming the Skaven don't Squat them and kill them all). Chaos in general could get joined into one force too. Yup that sounds close to 6 factions but I'll take that with the same amount of salt HBMC is throwing at it for now.

**Edit: Ooops forgot Lizardmen, Ogres and O&G. God knows what they'll do with them

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/06 21:20:38

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Made in us


I think we'll be left with tears in rain...

Made in gb
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General

We'll find out soon enough eh.

If this actually happens, I am going to have to find a suitably smug phrase for my sig. Also I'd better not see one single person who was all over the End Times and "advancing the story" moaning about this new setup; you asked for it.

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Norn Queen

Dublin, Ireland

It sounds fairly plausible to me.
It was a big step from a GW history perspective to get the ET going. They really have taken Warhammer and rejigged/reworked/re whatever you like to call it.
Given that the concensus is that WHFB has never been as big as 40k and in more recent years sales have been declining further, it seems logical they they have decided from a purely commercial standpoint to wipe the slate clean and try a complete revamp.
I dont write it off at all.

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Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut

That would be absolutely terrible.

lost and damned log
Made in gb
Battlefield Tourist

On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

Positives: Massively excited that GW are actually trying to do something new, for the first time in years.

Negatives: That WHFB is being smothered to do it. If true, it's going to really hurt the vets, and I can imagine a massive upswell in the number of people playing KoW as a result. One would surely hope that the WFB range and games would continue to be supported and sold?

Actually they were talking about this on BoW the other day - the reason that 40k has been absolutely steamrollered this year with new releases is to get all of the codexes done, and then free up the design and sculpting staff to work on a new 'massive project'.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/06 21:31:46

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Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut

The thing is that AFAIK the background and factions of WHFB are not the reasons of its bad sales. Even if they introduce WHFB space marines, I don't think they would sell well. The main problem is the barrier cost. If you want to start an army, you have to mortage your house. In 40k, starting a faction is a lot less expensive, since you need way less models.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/06 21:35:22

lost and damned log
Made in si
Ravenous Beast Form

I really don't get this.

I understand that Fantasy sells like ass and should have been axed years ago, honestly.

But this will just replace one failing product line with another.

It will incur the same wrath from the vets as dropping Fantasy entirely would have, without the benefits on saving production capacity for something better.

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Badass "Sister Sin"

Camas, WA

We've been hearing this kind of thing for a while. I'll believe it when I see it.

Looking for great deals on miniatures or have a large pile you are looking to sell off? Checkout Mindtaker Miniatures.
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Longtime Dakkanaut

North Carolina

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Maybe this will finally inspire the Slann and their lizard kin to finally develop the concept of clothes and armor. That would absolutely make my day.

Dude, have you been to the rainforest/jungle? It's hot, and wet, and hot. Even the people who live there barely wear clothes why would giant frogs and lizards need any? You do have a point about the armor though, nobody likes to get stabbed, including lizards.

I can see something akin to this plan being put into effect because it has the right combination of a lack of awareness of the the fan base and greed. Hey, what if we just discontinue a bunch of stuff, release a new totally different edition and make everybody start over? All the current players would buy all new armies sales would skyrocket!

Even if this rumor is mostly false I still think I'm much more likely to be proxying my WHFB armies in KoW 2.0 than buying anymore fantasy books from GW.

Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
Made in gb
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps


Ironically, while this sounds terrible, backstory wise, for fantasy; it'd be perfect for advancing 40k. Imagine if you will:

- The Emperor Dies/Disappears
- The Imperium is fractured into millions of petty empires and fiefdoms - Age of Strife 2: Strife Harder
- The line between villains and heroes is blurred
- Loyalist marines are treated with disdain as they steal off all the finest youth
- Traitor marines are treated as honored guests after they liberate a human planet from Xenos enslavers
- Orks Speed Freaks and Human Gangers race each other across Helsreach hive in a competition to see who rules
- The Adeptus Mechanicus is fractured and some see new technology as the saviour while others feel the opposite is true

Made in us
Dakka Veteran

South Portsmouth, KY USA

Well if this goes down as reported, the only company that will have a steady Fantasy range and a stable game to go with it will be Mantic!

This could bode well for Ronnie's gang of cutthroats and ne'er do wells :-)

Also Mantic's prices are better overall than GW, and KoW's gameplay doesn't require the same interaction with the models, so you can make better use of them on their bases than what GW's rules require.

Armies: Space Marines, IG, Tyranids, Eldar, Necrons, Orks, Dark Eldar.
I am the best 40k player in my town, I always win! Of course, I am the only player of 40k in my town.

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Made in gb
Poisonous Kroot Headhunter

It doesn't sound too bad, I can think of a worse direction to take it... such as introducing round bases! (Which I don't believe considering all of the large kits now coming with square/rectangular jobbies)

Definitely not expanding with any more Fantasy armies now though (it's my favourite war game!) so on the bright side, this rumour has sworn me off of purchasing any fantasy stuff until the summer, no Skaven or Undead for me!

edit: Looks like my Infinity, Flames of War and 40K models will get some much needed attention then, instead

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/06 22:00:13

Made in us
Potent Grey Knight Librarian

Fort Worth, TX

As a way of introducing an all new game, this could work quite well and does sound interesting.

However, it will equally be a turnoff for many, as it is the lore and aesthetic of WHFB that has kept the fans going, and not so much the game itself.

"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me."
- Twin Peaks
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Bryan Ansell

Birmingham, UK

if this were true It could fit in with some of GW' more recent actions.

New factions could see a more protect-able naming scheme implemented. Like Astra Militarum et al.

Fewer models and limited time releases slot into GW being a company .for collectors of miniatures. Limited time releases prevent 3rd party manufacturers gaining traction.

Digitally release rules and limited edition rule-books.

Less Inventory higher prices.

Not that I like any of it, but given GW's position and recent history I wouldn't bet against 'Fantasie Steam Battel' V1™ being released
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