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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




yukishiro1 wrote:
Yeah, a good ranged list played by a competent player will ruthlessly exploit a T1 to T2 double turn and not give you a way back into the match unless they roll really badly.

What sort of person talks about positioning in a game where basically all the powerful ranged lists have threat ranges that cover essentially the entire table, and in which cover basically doesn't exist except as an occasional bonus to saving throws?

If you get DTed from T1 to T2 by LRL, Tzeentch, Seraphon, or KO...you will lose 80% of the time, because you will go into the second half of T2 with half of your army or less.

The only faction for which positioning can really give you a chance against a ranged list DTing you on T1 and T2 is Deepkin.


Damn I love Deepkin, so happy I chose them. Awesome aesthetic, awesome rules. We just need more models.
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






 CMLR wrote:
Sorry if already talked about
All covered in the rules available for download, but thank you for the effort regardless
   
Made in fi
Ye Lord of The End Times (and a good guy)





 Hanskrampf wrote:
Ouch, reprinting the Core Rules to fill half the page count of the GHB and the warscrolls will be in the app. I'm seriously consider skipping it...



Core rules being there is a plus for me. No need to carry the brick. Plus scenarios.

Brick good for fluff reading at home, less convenient at carrying to games.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 kodos wrote:
for now we don't know

as well as we don't know if the free rules + GHB covers everything or if there are any rules missing that are found in the hardcover

we have had both with GW, so better of waiting until the first reviews are out


Path to glory. Couple scenarios

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/15 18:47:23


2021 painted/bought: 538/575 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Preface: I have not played AOS since early release.

I have read the new "core" rules. 3.0 doesn't look any better to me. I want to be excited about this game, but geez.

Heroic actions and Monster rampages don't need to exist, there are better ways to make them more interesting/powerful.

Miscasts punish players for casting spells. I did not have the chance to play WHFB, was there a possibility of miscasting on all spells? Then there is the distinction without a difference between wizards and priests..... Way to waste space, and your time, rule team!


More battalions..... is this really better balanced, easier to comprehend, or even more flavorful than WHFB's Lord and Heroes, Core, Special and Rare with %s?

I have never read batch-rolling described in such a tortured manner.

I want to see the actual core rules, but this does not look like an edition that will get me playing AOS with any regularity.


Pet peeve: "wholly within" is pointless, GW! If you want units to be closer for an effect, shorten the distance it must be within!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/15 19:09:45


 
   
Made in us
Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard





Blastaar wrote:
Pet peeve: "wholly within" is pointless, GW! If you want units to be closer for an effect, shorten the distance it must be within!

No it’s not; it prevents players spreading effects out by having one model in the zone and the rest of the unit strung out like washing on a line. Or getting more units into effective range by each one having a “tail” of a few models that stick into the range of the effect.

Of course they could replace both “within” and “wholly within” with a rule that measurements have to include 50+% of the unit and fix it entirely but as long as “within” just means the barest sliver of a fraction of one base out of thirty, wholly within is sometimes required.

"Three months? I'm going to go crazy …and I'm taking you with me!"
— Vala Mal Doran
 
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





Blastaar wrote:
Preface: I have not played AOS since early release.

I have read the new "core" rules. 3.0 doesn't look any better to me. I want to be excited about this game, but geez.

Heroic actions and Monster rampages don't need to exist, there are better ways to make them more interesting/powerful.

They don't need to exist, no, but Monster Rampages do give you something else to do in your opponent's turn, so that's cool.


Miscasts punish players for casting spells. I did not have the chance to play WHFB, was there a possibility of miscasting on all spells? Then there is the distinction without a difference between wizards and priests..... Way to waste space, and your time, rule team!

Yes, in WHFB you could miscast.
There's some fairly large differences between wizards and priests that are easy to tell just by glancing at the rules. Not sure why you think there's no difference?

More battalions..... is this really better balanced, easier to comprehend, or even more flavorful than WHFB's Lord and Heroes, Core, Special and Rare with %s?

They do... entirely different things? The closest thing to WHFB's %s is the battleline requirements and behemoth/artillery/leader limits. Which, yes, those are much easier to comprehend. Not sure about flavorful (both limitations are equally unflavourful imho). Balance is scrummed out. All depends on how good your battleline are, honestly.
   
Made in fi
Ye Lord of The End Times (and a good guy)





Blastaar wrote:

Pet peeve: "wholly within" is pointless, GW! If you want units to be closer for an effect, shorten the distance it must be within!


Okay so...ummm..within 1"?

You have any idea how far 60 models can be stringed out? Even with new coherency rule(that doesn't halve it) it's long time.

Within 1" results often enough LONGER reach than fully within 12".

Pointless? Lol. Maybe try rules before saying it's pointless?

Also saying priests and wizards are same...lol. guess you didn't even read them?

Btw here's riddle for you. If they are same why teclis and slann, 2 anti-wizard models extraordinary, have only kill the priest as anti-priest solution?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/15 19:36:35


2021 painted/bought: 538/575 
   
Made in si
Skillful Swordmaster





I did not have the chance to play WHFB, was there a possibility of miscasting on all spells?


WHFB had a table for the miscast result, some outcomes were bad, others horrific.

More battalions..... is this really better balanced, easier to comprehend, or even more flavorful than WHFB's Lord and Heroes, Core, Special and Rare with %s?

AoS still constrains you with the composition table. You can shuffle the units you've taken into these 'packages'. I don't find the bonuses to be flavourful, more resenting that the effects are burdensome to track and not exciting in the first place.
   
Made in us
Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard





 Knight wrote:
I did not have the chance to play WHFB, was there a possibility of miscasting on all spells?


WHFB had a table for the miscast result, some outcomes were bad, others horrific.

On the contrary, all of them were hilarious (Dwarf player).

"Three months? I'm going to go crazy …and I'm taking you with me!"
— Vala Mal Doran
 
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





 Mr_Rose wrote:
 Knight wrote:
I did not have the chance to play WHFB, was there a possibility of miscasting on all spells?


WHFB had a table for the miscast result, some outcomes were bad, others horrific.

On the contrary, all of them were hilarious (Dwarf player).


As a fellow player, I'd like to note that miscast almost always meant that we couldn't dispel, even with a rune! So depending on the spell they cast, very funny (if they were trying to buff a unit and ended up exploding it instead) or very sad (purple sun of Xereus through your Hammerers with no chance to stop it!)
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






 Mr_Rose wrote:
 Knight wrote:
I did not have the chance to play WHFB, was there a possibility of miscasting on all spells?


WHFB had a table for the miscast result, some outcomes were bad, others horrific.

On the contrary, all of them were hilarious (Dwarf player).
Them being hilarious isn't mutually exclusive

It is amusing to see someone expressing concern over d3 MWs for a miscast when previously it was entirely in line for your wizard to instantly die and take a bunch of surrounding troops with him! The dichotomy of different perspectives.

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page


I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history. 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 Knight wrote:
I did not have the chance to play WHFB, was there a possibility of miscasting on all spells?


WHFB had a table for the miscast result, some outcomes were bad, others horrific.

More battalions..... is this really better balanced, easier to comprehend, or even more flavorful than WHFB's Lord and Heroes, Core, Special and Rare with %s?

AoS still constrains you with the composition table. You can shuffle the units you've taken into these 'packages'. I don't find the bonuses to be flavourful, more resenting that the effects are burdensome to track and not exciting in the first place.



The miscast table sounds familiar. How did miscasts occur? Did spells "overcharge" like TTW? I am curious if a choice was involved.

The composition table does create limits, and this is good. I think it can be better.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/15 22:03:23


 
   
Made in us
Skink Chief with Poisoned Javelins




Xalapa, Veracruz, Mexico

I find curious how AoS and 40K are pretty much overlapping rules currently: new rules in one system, implement them on the sister for their next major update edition, and vice versa.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
 CMLR wrote:
Sorry if already talked about
All covered in the rules available for download, but thank you for the effort regardless


Would appreciate a link.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/15 22:12:23


 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

 CMLR wrote:
I find curious how AoS and 40K are pretty much overlapping rules currently: new rules in one system, implement them on the sister for their next major update edition, and vice versa.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
 CMLR wrote:
Sorry if already talked about
All covered in the rules available for download, but thank you for the effort regardless


Would appreciate a link.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/6180/784170.page#11148804
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Southern New Hampshire

 Mr_Rose wrote:
 Knight wrote:
I did not have the chance to play WHFB, was there a possibility of miscasting on all spells?


WHFB had a table for the miscast result, some outcomes were bad, others horrific.

On the contrary, all of them were hilarious (Dwarf player).


My personal favorite (for obvious reasons) was the one about a clawed hand grabbing the offending wizard and dragging them into the Realm of Chaos to be 'instructed' by their new master.

"There are no problems that cannot be solved with cannons." - Chief Engineer Boris Krauss of Nuln

AoS - Fires of Change : "The Everchosen stole my destiny. Soon, I shall return the favor." The Unmaker, Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch

Thousand Sons
Renegade Astartes The Scourged
Daemons

DR:80S++G++M--B+IPwhfb01#+D+++A+++/fWD268R++T(D)DM+++
 
   
Made in si
Skillful Swordmaster





How did miscasts occur? Did spells "overcharge" like TTW?

When you rolled ones, if memory serves. You could overcharge by opting to use more dice, but the effect was nothing similar to TWW. The more power (dice) you used, the harder it was for the opponent to dispel (RNG giving), naturally, along comes a higher chance to miscast (RNG taking).

when previously it was entirely in line for your wizard to instantly die and take a bunch of surrounding troops with him! The dichotomy of different perspectives.

+1 to cas/dispel was also considered a rubbish item for its points, while now it's rather decent. Probably because power stones don't exist ... for the moment.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/16 12:04:23


 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

A bit closer look at some of the Kruleboyz in Warhammer TV;s first painting tutorial:

Spoiler:


'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Germany

 Ghaz wrote:
A bit closer look at some of the Kruleboyz in Warhammer TV;s first painting tutorial:

Spoiler:



Is it me or is the like/dislike ratio worse than usual

Games Workshop are not your friends. They are not a small dev trying their best. They are a multibillion dollar company making calculated decisions about how many costs they can cut, how lazy they can be about relases, and how much they can paywall. They will do it again. Stop giving them money for this. 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

'Reinforcements Are the Key to Victory For Flesh-eater Courts in the New Edition' on Warhammer Community:

Spoiler:

















'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
A bit closer look at some of the Kruleboyz in Warhammer TV;s first painting tutorial:

Spoiler:



Is it me or is the like/dislike ratio worse than usual

Nick's videos always have a larger amount of dislikes. It doesn't help his Battle Ready tutorials end up looking like "Painted my first mini" threads on Reddit.
   
Made in gb
Fanatic with Madcap Mushrooms







 Arbitrator wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
A bit closer look at some of the Kruleboyz in Warhammer TV;s first painting tutorial:

Spoiler:



Is it me or is the like/dislike ratio worse than usual

Nick's videos always have a larger amount of dislikes. It doesn't help his Battle Ready tutorials end up looking like "Painted my first mini" threads on Reddit.


Are you saying his painting is a bit pants?

   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 CMLR wrote:
I find curious how AoS and 40K are pretty much overlapping rules currently: new rules in one system, implement them on the sister for their next major update edition, and vice versa.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
 CMLR wrote:
Sorry if already talked about
All covered in the rules available for download, but thank you for the effort regardless


Would appreciate a link.


Agreed. IMO, if they do not have an experience different from 40k in mind, they should have done with it and use the exact same rules for both.
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





 NAVARRO wrote:
 Arbitrator wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
A bit closer look at some of the Kruleboyz in Warhammer TV;s first painting tutorial:

Spoiler:



Is it me or is the like/dislike ratio worse than usual

Nick's videos always have a larger amount of dislikes. It doesn't help his Battle Ready tutorials end up looking like "Painted my first mini" threads on Reddit.


Are you saying his painting is a bit pants?

I don't know. I assume he must be half decent to get the job, since there wouldn't have been a lack of people applying for the chance to do painting tutorials for a living. It's just their Battle Ready tutorials now amount to "slap on a basepaint and put a wash over it. Now you're done!" Or even worse, Contrast. Nick seems to have joined around the time they stopped doing full in-depth tutorials.
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

Accessible tutorials are not a bad thing. Not everyone starts off with OSL, fine edge highlighting and NMM.

There are lots of ways to paint, don’t be an elitist about it.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

Yes he's a decent painter...

Spoiler:


My only complaint is sometimes he goes a bit overboard on how many paints he uses (53 paints on an Ogor is a bit excessive). Anyway I liked the Battle Ready tutorial I posted above because I wanted to see what the new paints actually look like. GW's paint swatches are a bit rubbish for seeing what the paint looks like.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/16 15:35:03


'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Battle ready literally means base coat + wash, I dunno why a battle ready tutorial would be more than that?

Obviously a tutorial video of that isn't going to be terribly useful for anyone who has any experience painting, but that's not the intended audience. Their videos are aimed at people who have never painted before - maybe people who are doing it grudgingly to get the 10VP in 40k.

GW is smart enough to know it would only embarrass themselves to try to actually compete with all the really good painters who do youtube tutorials, so they don't even try.
   
Made in us
Skink Chief with Poisoned Javelins




Xalapa, Veracruz, Mexico

Gotta try and become a WH YouTuber. Lots of Dominion boxes have been sent already...

Reminds me a lot from streamer privilege, lmao.

 Ghaz wrote:
A bit closer look at some of the Kruleboyz in Warhammer TV;s first painting tutorial:

Spoiler:



Funny how orcs lack toenails, yet hobgobs have toeclaws.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/16 15:51:14


 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Germany

yukishiro1 wrote:
Battle ready literally means base coat + wash, I dunno why a battle ready tutorial would be more than that?

Obviously a tutorial video of that isn't going to be terribly useful for anyone who has any experience painting, but that's not the intended audience. Their videos are aimed at people who have never painted before - maybe people who are doing it grudgingly to get the 10VP in 40k.

GW is smart enough to know it would only embarrass themselves to try to actually compete with all the really good painters who do youtube tutorials, so they don't even try.


Technically, wouldn't you then need like uh, a whole one of those? Since it's so easy and doesn't really change no matter what the model actually is.

Games Workshop are not your friends. They are not a small dev trying their best. They are a multibillion dollar company making calculated decisions about how many costs they can cut, how lazy they can be about relases, and how much they can paywall. They will do it again. Stop giving them money for this. 
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





 JohnnyHell wrote:
Accessible tutorials are not a bad thing. Not everyone starts off with OSL, fine edge highlighting and NMM.

There are lots of ways to paint, don’t be an elitist about it.

I'm the first person to defend Duncan's painting tutorials when people call them 'basic', so I'm far from an elitist about painting tutorials. The problem is they already had accessible tutorials... and they binned them to make the Battle Ready(tm) tripe. What made them so good is that they were accessible but finished (at least by Duncan and usually Peachy's hand) with a result that somebody could look at and go, "Wow that looks so good, but the tutorial was so simple, maybe even I could do that?"

Compared to the new Battle Ready(tm) tutorials which amount to them slapping a pot of Contrast or whatever paint they've got too much stock of and then drowning it in wash. Compare Duncan's Cadian tutorial to either of the Battle Ready ones - there's nothing aspirational about the latter. Hell, Peachy was doing full tutorials for years before Duncan left, so evidentially it was a conscious decision on the studio's part. Presumably those full tutorials are going to end up hidden behind Warhammer+.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/06/16 15:58:00


 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Germany

 Arbitrator wrote:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
Accessible tutorials are not a bad thing. Not everyone starts off with OSL, fine edge highlighting and NMM.

There are lots of ways to paint, don’t be an elitist about it.

I'm the first person to defend Duncan's painting tutorials when people call them 'basic', so I'm far from an elitist about painting tutorials. The problem is they already had accessible tutorials... and they binned them to make the Battle Ready(tm) tripe. What made them so good is that they were accessible but finished (at least by Duncan and usually Peachy's hand) with a result that somebody could look at and go, "Wow that looks so good, but the tutorial was so simple, maybe even I could do that?"

Compared to the new Battle Ready(tm) tutorials which amount to them slapping a pot of Contrast or whatever paint they've got too much stock of and then drowning it in wash. Compare Duncan's Cadian tutorial to either of the Battle Ready ones - there's nothing aspirational about the latter. Hell, Peachy was doing full tutorials for years before Duncan left, so evidentially it was a conscious decision on the studio's part. Presumably those full tutorials are going to end up hidden behind Warhammer+.


Would be a very, er, modern company-esque decision for them to go "Hey, if you wanna any tutorial from us that's not the most basic painting tutorial under the sun, pay up!"

Games Workshop are not your friends. They are not a small dev trying their best. They are a multibillion dollar company making calculated decisions about how many costs they can cut, how lazy they can be about relases, and how much they can paywall. They will do it again. Stop giving them money for this. 
   
 
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