Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So with the new Necron codex coming out, the Trans. C'Tan got moved to heavy and took a massive nerf, though the obelisk still is a LOW. Compared to other vehicles, like the morka/gorkanaught it seems like it should be a heavy choice. It does not have spectacular firing potential with just the tesla orbs and no combat potential. The whole ability to have a 3++ is nice, but you trade that for not being able to do anything, the tessseract vault makes sense, but why move the obelisk to heavy?

-It was always a LOW, so they kept it there.
-In a CAD, they want people to only take 1 max
-It's a super-heavy vehicle
-It's physically huge

None of these are great reasons, mind you.

My question is why not nerf the trans. less than what it got and keep it a LoW and move the Obelisk to the Heavy option, compared to other LoW, kinda lacking... a lot.

oz of the north wrote:
My question is why not nerf the trans. less than what it got and keep it a LoW and move the Obelisk to the Heavy option, compared to other LoW, kinda lacking... a lot.

At first glance, I hated the nerfto Transcendant Ctan, but after awhile, you'll come to appreciate the fact that is a more generic, NON-LoW unit (People won't complain about fighting it...) and it has Deep Strike and a bubble of Difficult Terrain, and the new Ctan powers. Plus, it's not 700+ points that people will hate you for fielding.

And the Obelisk is much better now, it's technically better and tougher than 3 A-barges, and has all the benefits of a Super Heavy.

I'm not really seeing the reason why it _shouldn't_ be a Lord of War.

Necrons have just three choices for LoW.
Imothek is meh and the Vault is good but very expensive.
So I think the Obelisk is the best choice atm.

The answer is, why not.

Its still a super heavy, and they really dont want them spammed at lower point games with the CAD. Under a decurion it can be done but is still a bit more restrictive.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Necrons have just three choices for LoW.
Imothek is meh and the Vault is good but very expensive.
So I think the Obelisk is the best choice atm.

The answer is, why not.

True, but excluding the characters that got moved to LoW status, most LoW have mass killing power, such as a knight, or a stompa that can justify having half an army fire into it. The obelisk on the other hand seems like only a moderately different monolith, it just seems like it is lacking something to actually make it seem like a LoW.

Don't forget superheavy vehicles have rules that make them good regardless of their killing power.

For example, the Malcador, while on paper a gakky Leman Russ, has thunderblitz, which is basically a D-weapon hit.

One thing to remember is due to the formation you can fit two Obelisks into an army without having to use a decurion or start a 2nd CAD/Mephrit. It also means everyone and their dog can throw an Obelisk into their army without a Necron CAD/Mephrit/Decurion if they wanted to.

You could have an army with a Lynx, Ad Lance, and Obelisk in a 2050 point army. All without having to take more than 1 FOC detachment. Silly, eh.

Pdogg614 wrote:
Its still a super heavy, and they really dont want them spammed at lower point games with the CAD. Under a decurion it can be done but is still a bit more restrictive.

Yet Knights exist.

No real reason for Imotek to be there either, to be honest. He's just an HQ that you can't take as an HQ.

Obelisks should be Heavy Support. With people fielding 2+ IKs in a game, 3 Obelsisks doesn't seem like a problem to me in a CAD.

The only unit we have inside The codex that seems like a LoW is the Vault.

They need to be a SHV, it makes them stronger.
Anyway, who cares? Necrons can take 10 of those in a Decurion.

 SilverDevilfish wrote:
One thing to remember is due to the formation you can fit two Obelisks into an army without having to use a decurion or start a 2nd CAD/Mephrit. It also means everyone and their dog can throw an Obelisk into their army without a Necron CAD/Mephrit/Decurion if they wanted to.

You could have an army with a Lynx, Ad Lance, and Obelisk in a 2050 point army. All without having to take more than 1 FOC detachment. Silly, eh.

Obelisks are not a Formation and you cannot take a single Obelisk as, let's say, Blood Angels.

oz of the north wrote:
My question is why not nerf the trans. less than what it got and keep it a LoW and move the Obelisk to the Heavy option, compared to other LoW, kinda lacking... a lot.

I don't know, 20 S7 Tesla shots that target 2-4 separate units is pretty beastly....on average, you'll get 19 hits a turn thanks to Tesla. Its not effective against AV14 obviously, but with the rest of the Necron army having access to auto glance weaponry, it doesn't need to be.

Kangodo wrote:
They need to be a SHV, it makes them stronger.
Anyway, who cares? Necrons can take 10 of those in a Decurion.

 SilverDevilfish wrote:
One thing to remember is due to the formation you can fit two Obelisks into an army without having to use a decurion or start a 2nd CAD/Mephrit. It also means everyone and their dog can throw an Obelisk into their army without a Necron CAD/Mephrit/Decurion if they wanted to.

You could have an army with a Lynx, Ad Lance, and Obelisk in a 2050 point army. All without having to take more than 1 FOC detachment. Silly, eh.

Obelisks are not a Formation and you cannot take a single Obelisk as, let's say, Blood Angels.

I think you can. Living Tomb can be a 1 unit Obelisk formation. There's no reason not to take it as that formation, because you'd lose Precision Arrival, unless for some reason you'd want it to show up late.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

oz of the north wrote:
My question is why not nerf the trans. less than what it got and keep it a LoW and move the Obelisk to the Heavy option, compared to other LoW, kinda lacking... a lot.

I don't know, 20 S7 Tesla shots that target 2-4 separate units is pretty beastly....on average, you'll get 19 hits a turn thanks to Tesla. Its not effective against AV14 obviously, but with the rest of the Necron army having access to auto glance weaponry, it doesn't need to be.

It's not the greatest, based on fact it will attract all firepower,but when compared to something like the malcador, it just seems like a smaller LoW.

In fact I believe you could run a CAD of 1HQ, 2 Troops, and nothing but Living Tomb formations with no Monoliths for all the Obelisks your heart desires.

 jasper76 wrote:
I think you can. Living Tomb can be a 1 unit Obelisk formation. There's no reason not to take it as that formation, because you'd lose Precision Arrival, unless for some reason you'd want it to show up late.

My mistake, I confused him with the Vault.

 jasper76 wrote:
In fact I believe you could run a CAD of 1HQ, 2 Troops, and nothing but Living Tomb formations with no Monoliths for all the Obelisks your heart desires.

You could do that, but anything armor 14 would crush you.

Kangodo wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
I think you can. Living Tomb can be a 1 unit Obelisk formation. There's no reason not to take it as that formation, because you'd lose Precision Arrival, unless for some reason you'd want it to show up late.

My mistake, I confused him with the Vault.

(deleted for bad info)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

oz of the north wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
In fact I believe you could run a CAD of 1HQ, 2 Troops, and nothing but Living Tomb formations with no Monoliths for all the Obelisks your heart desires.

You could do that, but anything armor 14 would crush you.

Right, was just saying it's possible.

 jasper76 wrote:

Kangodo wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
I think you can. Living Tomb can be a 1 unit Obelisk formation. There's no reason not to take it as that formation, because you'd lose Precision Arrival, unless for some reason you'd want it to show up late.

My mistake, I confused him with the Vault.

Even the Vault is his own formation.

You could run a CAD of 1Hq 2Tr and nothing but Star-God formations of Vaults.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

oz of the north wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
In fact I believe you could run a CAD of 1HQ, 2 Troops, and nothing but Living Tomb formations with no Monoliths for all the Obelisks your heart desires.

You could do that, but anything armor 14 would crush you.

Right, was just saying it's possible.

Got me there, true, would be a silly list. Kinda want to try it now

oz of the north wrote:
So with the new Necron codex coming out, the Trans. C'Tan got moved to heavy and took a massive nerf, though the obelisk still is a LOW. Compared to other vehicles, like the morka/gorkanaught it seems like it should be a heavy choice. It does not have spectacular firing potential with just the tesla orbs and no combat potential. The whole ability to have a 3++ is nice, but you trade that for not being able to do anything, the tessseract vault makes sense, but why move the obelisk to heavy?

20 S7 shots (that can fire at up to 4 different targets) that can inflict a potential 60 hits is spectacular shooting potential, particularly on an AV14-all-round 6HP vehicle that can regain hull points. That's not only incredibly amazing for the absurdly low cost, but that's solidly Lord of War territory.

Look at the other vehicle Lords of War for the same cost (or more!), stuff like Macharius and Malcador tanks, and they're drastically inferior.

 jasper76 wrote:
You could run a CAD of 1Hq 2Tr and nothing but Star-God formations of Vaults.

These are the Formations:
1. Reclamation Legion
2. Judicator Batallion
3. Destroyer Cult
4. Deathbringer Flight
5. Living Tomb
6. Annihilation Nexus
7. Canoptek Harvest
8. Royal Court

So Star God doesn't count as a formation? (ref page 62, left column, last sentence)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Makes sense that it wouldn't. No data sheet.

Yup, just like Deathmarks and Flayed Ones.
Which I am glad about, otherwise every army could just add one of those to their armies.