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Orem, Utah

Ok, Space Marine sizes have been something of a strange bit of fluff. People I talk to say the size of a marine is anywhere between six and twelve feet tall. I'm pretty sure that both Games Workshop and the fandom have been pretty inconsistent about the average Space Marine height, so I'd like to compile a list of references, along with the sizes that they each claim a Space Marine to be.

Please add any references you can find that tell us how tall Space Marines are. I'm going to be looking through my old books and see if I can find references there as well.

Here are the sources for Space Marine height we've gathered so far:



210 cm - (a little over 6'10" or 7 foot exactly if you use a 1 inch=2.5 cm conversion) Games Workshop competition (http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Competition?_requestid=15836007) probably the most recent reference (February 2015)

2.1m and 7' Image to go along with the competition- clearly showing that 7ft is exactly the same as 2.1 meters (in the grim darkness of the far future, math is simple).

7 foot tall - White Dwarf 300, p134 "Space Marines in the Movies"

"half as tall again as the man in front of him" - Paul Kearny, The Last Detail, p94- calculates at a little under 9 ft. tall depending on the height of the man in question.

7' tall- 6th edition Chaos Codex, p36

Barely under 8' tall - Black Library Weekender scale picture: http://i.imgur.com/6jjsiar.jpg

7 feet -Jess Goodwin's picture of a 1/1 scale space marine The head is at 8 feet, ground is at 1 foot.

Two and a half meters tall and taller or 8'2"+ -Dan Abnett, Horus Rising- description of Gavriel Loken and two other marines who are taller

"...well over two metres tall..." ie. above 6'7" - Xenos, page 171, Dan Abnett; from a description of The Emperor's Children Chaos Marine, Mandragore.

7'-7'6"- Jess Goodwin, Design Philosophy IV

210 cm - DeathWatch RPG, p28

Over 7'4"- Dan Abnett, Ravenor- compiled from several references to a 7'4" woman who is described as being nearly Astartes height

Approaching 3 Meters Tall/ Close to 3 Meters Tall- Aaron Dembski-Bowden Night Lords Omnibus pp 459, 494

"...a general increase in the size of the recipient's skeleton."- White Dwarf 98, February 1988 description of effects of Ossmodula. Possibly the first reference to size increase in Astartes.

No suggestion of increased height in Space Marine Physique- Rick Priestly and Andy Chambers, "The Physique of a Space Marine" Codex Imperialis 1993 p18. (the Ossmodula merely increases bone strength in this version).

7'2" Promotional material for THQ's video game: "Space Marine."

Human Sized- can be shorter as shown in artwork Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader p226 Contrast that against THQ's presentation in Space Marine


"Larger in girth and mightier of arm than even Leman Russ" (2nd ed Codex Space Wolves p. 67). A studio converted mini for Ranulf was featured in White Dwarf (#185, pg. 56- sculpt by Kim Syberg) Entry for Wolf Guard Ranulf- a Wolf Guard Leader with a less than impressive statline (he wasn't killing any greater daemons anytime soon). It should be noted that this predates fluff turning the primarchs into giants.

The Shortest Space Marine He'd Ever Seen proving that at least one space marine is below average astartes height Deathwatch p.72


Primarch Size References

The Primarchs seem to have grown even more than the Space Marines over time. Let's get some size references for them:


Leman Russ was considered large, but he was not the largest of the Space Wolves (2nd ed Codex Space Wolves p. 67)
I think it is noteworthy that the statblock for a larger than Russ wolfguard is very unimpressive by 2nd ed standards..


Roboute Guilliman can use the same power fists as normal marines 2nd ed Codex: Ultramarines, 72 and Guantlets of Ultramar Wargear card.

A cast of Sanguinius's face can be worn by marines, indicating that they're about the same size- - 2nd ed Codex Angels of DeathDeath, Mask of Sanguinius wargear card


Night Haunter could conceal his identity among normal humans 2nd ed Codex Chaos as well as later references to Night Huanter- a detail that seems to contradict his status as a giant.

This message was edited 56 times. Last update was at 2021/05/07 19:42:12


 
   
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Space Marine models have never been properly-scaled to the rest of the range. They've always been short, so I wouldn't take any measurement of a basic marine to be a proper 28mm "scale" height.

I can't give you a citation, but I've always seen references of 7+ feet tall.

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The short lived Design Philosophy podcast number 4 says 7' to 7'6"
http://podbay.fm/show/287635672/e/1228233600

At around 30 minutes in.

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 Eilif wrote:
Space Marine models have never been properly-scaled to the rest of the range.


Actually, I would disagree. SM look fine alongside Eldar, Tau, Crons and Nids, it's only really Guardsmen with their ape-like proportions that throws the look off. If IG minis were closer to True-scale (like the FW ranges) then the issue would be far less prominent.

Not attacking your post by the way, just offering an alternate explanation

 
   
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I've always seen the ballpark figures of 7' for the space marine and 8' in armor.

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 warboss wrote:
I've always seen the ballpark figures of 7' for the space marine and 8' in armor.


I think I've heard that one too, but I'm not sure where it comes from.

That doesn't seem to match the minis either (at least mark 1-8 power armor doesn't have epic elevator boots, and the helmets aren't adding that much height either, since we've got so many examples of marines without helmets).

Terminator armor is probably adding a whole foot to the height, though.



On a side note, I just went through my old 2nd ed "Codex Imperialis" and it didn't have any reference to Space Marine height. Doesn't even claim that they're tall. It does say that they can spit corrosive poison and have fused rib cages, though.


My 2nd ed Space Wolves codex states that they are "Huge, Burly Warriors" in comparison to normal Fenrisian citizens, but it doesn't give a number.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/02/04 19:44:44


 
   
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 odinsgrandson wrote:
Ok, Space Marine sizes have been something of a strange bit of fluff. People I talk to site the size of a marine anywhere between six and twelve feet tall. I'm pretty sure that both Games Workshop and the fandom have been pretty inconsistent about the average Space Marine height, so I'd like to compile a list of references, along with the sizes that they each claim a Space Marine to be.

Please add any references you can find that tell us how tall Space Marines are. I'm going to be looking through my old books and see if I can find references there as well.



210 cm - (about 6'10") Games Workshop competition (http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Competition?_requestid=15836007) probably the most recent reference (February 2015)

7 foot tall - White Dwarf 300, p134 "Space Marines in the Movies"


AAAAAAAAH

first of all. You have to change your post. 210cm IS seven feet. Just know some math.

Secondly, these competition rules are exactly what I was going to post when I saw this thread. Space Marines are 210cm tall, that is, seven feet.

I haven't read any more of the thread, I'm not going to read any more of the thread.

I'm going to edit a screen cap in to this post in a few minutes.

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Competition

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pelicaniforce wrote:


first of all. You have to change your post. 210cm IS seven feet. Just know some math.


"Some math" as in an extremely outdated system most of the world doesn't give a damn about.

   
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Hey, he's got a point. And he knew the current reference right away (honestly, it was the one that got me thinking about it).

Truth be told, I didn't do some math, I let the internet do it for me.

My conversion came from Google, which I figured would be more precise. I let it convert each step one at a time, so here's a breakdown of my process:

210 cm in inches is 82.6772 inches, or 6.88892 feet, or 6 foot, 10.667 inches.

I'm guessing that you used a simple 1 inche=2.5 cm instead of 1 inch=2.54cm (which is clearly what Google uses). In that case you get 210 cm= 84 inches=7 feet. Less precise conversion, but simpler math that gives you nice, round numbers on both ends. Since we're talking about fluff for our fantasy universe, I doubt that GW think that precision is really necessary.

I'll go ahead and make a note of that in my original post.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/02/04 20:56:59


 
   
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As with humans usually, the height varies greatly.

Some marines have been near primarch-size, and others merely just as tall as tall humans.

But as a mediocre, I'd say about 2,5m/8ft.
   
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I see it like this,

A short marine would be 6.5 ft. Average is 7-7.5. 8 would be exceptionally tall.

Power armor only adds a couple inches so its negligible. Terminator armor will add a considerable amount of height so they're going to be minimum of 8ft in the armor.

The biggest feature of marines is not their increased height over normal humans, its well within the possibility for normal humans, but rather how broad they are. That will give the illusion of them being taller than they actually are.

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Anybody have references for those?

I found one in the 2nd ed Space Wolf codex- the tallest Space Wolf was as big (or bigger) than Leman Russ. But it didn't give any numbers there either (and I've never found any specific references to Primarch height).

Does anyone have any of the novels that give space marine heights? I've heard Guant's Ghosts have them.

I honestly want to know where the variety of different ideas on marine height come from- clearly there are some very different ideas on marine height.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/04 21:43:50


 
   
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warboss wrote:I've always seen the ballpark figures of 7' for the space marine and 8' in armor.


They don't wear heels. Armour won't add a foot to their height.

Finlandiaperkele wrote:As with humans usually, the height varies greatly.

Some marines have been near primarch-size, and others merely just as tall as tall humans.

But as a mediocre, I'd say about 2,5m/8ft.


The designers/writers stated seven to seven and a half feet. As far as definitive proof, that's pretty much it, eight to eight and a half is ridiculous.

odinsgrandson wrote:Anybody have references for those?

I found one in the 2nd ed Space Wolf codex- the tallest Space Wolf was as big (or bigger) than Leman Russ. But it didn't give any numbers there either (and I've never found any specific references to Primarch height).

Does anyone have any of the novels that give space marine heights? I've heard Guant's Ghosts have them.

I honestly want to know where the variety of different ideas on marine height come from- clearly there are some very different ideas on marine height.


References above from the writers themselves. Can't get more definitive than that on the subject. The codex aldo states seven foot. The novels are questionable at best, especially with the likes of cs goto being involved... I think the tallest primarch was Magnus at sonething less than three metres, iirc.

Eight+ foot space marines is simply a fan created urban legend that has never gone away.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/04 21:52:45


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It's one of the most often discussed things in 40k...
and you will find a great deal of authors/artists who want to make them bigger and bigger, which is silly because they would be easily "outsmarted" by someone who build only narrow and small doors/ tunnels...

The figures are nothing to go by, because they are in heroic scale. The proportions are totally skewed (not just for marines... just look at the fat cadian models) No human would ever look like that. Forgeworld's DKoK and Elysians have more realistic body proportions

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Pg 94 The Last Detail wrote:It’ll be dark soon,’ the boy’s father said. ‘We should perhaps stay here another night and then set off at dawn.’ ‘No time,’ the Astartes said. Now that he was upright he seemed even huger, half as tall again as the man in front of him, his hands as big as shovels, his chest as wide as a dining table. ‘I see in the dark. You can follow me.


I've always preferred to go with this book as its descriptions generally make the most sense.

In this case, the 'man before him' is just below 6 feet.

So the Marine, outside of armour, is just below 9'.

Armour won't add more than a few inches though. So at, or about, 9'.

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 Ashiraya wrote:
Pg 94 The Last Detail wrote:It’ll be dark soon,’ the boy’s father said. ‘We should perhaps stay here another night and then set off at dawn.’ ‘No time,’ the Astartes said. Now that he was upright he seemed even huger, half as tall again as the man in front of him, his hands as big as shovels, his chest as wide as a dining table. ‘I see in the dark. You can follow me.


I've always preferred to go with this book as its descriptions generally make the most sense.

In this case, the 'man before him' is just below 6 feet.

So the Marine, outside of armour, is just below 9'.

Armour won't add more than a few inches though. So at, or about, 9'.

So you say that a marine with hands as big as shovels has a bolter that fits in his hands (gigantic) but fires (in relation) only toothpick sized little bolts (0.75") is making sense ? No it doesnt make any sense and it contradicts several statements. 9" is wishfull thinking of fanboys/girls who think bigger = always better

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 Keep wrote:
 Ashiraya wrote:
Pg 94 The Last Detail wrote:It’ll be dark soon,’ the boy’s father said. ‘We should perhaps stay here another night and then set off at dawn.’ ‘No time,’ the Astartes said. Now that he was upright he seemed even huger, half as tall again as the man in front of him, his hands as big as shovels, his chest as wide as a dining table. ‘I see in the dark. You can follow me.


I've always preferred to go with this book as its descriptions generally make the most sense.

In this case, the 'man before him' is just below 6 feet.

So the Marine, outside of armour, is just below 9'.

Armour won't add more than a few inches though. So at, or about, 9'.

So you say that a marine with hands as big as shovels has a bolter that fits in his hands (gigantic) but fires (in relation) only toothpick sized little bolts (0.75") is making sense ? No it doesnt make any sense and it contradicts several statements. 9" is wishfull thinking of fanboys/girls who think bigger = always better


And 7' is only the realm of IGhammer fanboys who hate the idea of anything more powerful than a stormtrooper, and do everything they can do mitigate those things.

Your brush is as wide as a Leman Russ.

Consider using something smaller to paint other people with.

No, 0,75 doesn't make all that much sense fwiw - seems like far too meek firepower to use for your buff supersoldiers.

But then, they should all use plasma guns really if their armaments did make sense. With flamers as backup weapons. It's not like they couldn't afford it when those weapons are given to darn guardsmen.

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Current Chaos Marine Codex says marines (and it is talking about normal. non-chaos marines) are seven feet. Studio has been really consistent with this over the years: Marines are about seven feet tall. Some BL books might sometimes portray them as larger, but even those tend to be pretty damn vague, just like Ashirya's quote earlier (anything that uses descriptions like 'hands as big as shovels' is not a mathematically accurate description.)

   
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well then i guess you owe an explanation why this vague section makes the most sense compared to explicit and precise statements in several sources (including from the designer of the modern Marine image itself) and other stuff.
Beeing a bigger target is worse, not fitting through areas/structures designed for smaller races (that is - most we know off, apart from orks and orgrins...) is a giant handicap.

So yes, i'll stick with "painting " everyone a fanboy who thinks bigger=always better whích believe in the 9"+ myth.

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 Crimson wrote:
Current Chaos Marine Codex says marines (and it is talking about normal. non-chaos marines) are seven feet. Studio has been really consistent with this over the years: Marines are about seven feet tall. Some BL books might sometimes portray them as larger, but even those tend to be pretty damn vague, just like Ashirya's quote earlier (anything that uses descriptions like 'hands as big as shovels' is not a mathematically accurate description.)


The GW studio is amazingly inconsistent, contradicting themselves almost every other description and often in the same book.

Much more common than the 'Marines are 7 feet' statement is the 'Marines are giants/larger than humans/bigger than any mortal man/' et cetera ad nauseam that you will find every bloody where. This directly disproves the 7' notion, since if they had been 7' in armour they would not have been much taller than 6' outside of armour once you subtract the big footsoles and the top of the helmet (especially the big footsoles).

Just above 6' is not superhuman, gigantic, or even particularly big. It's not even far above average.

Which is it?

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 Crimson wrote:
Current Chaos Marine Codex says marines (and it is talking about normal. non-chaos marines) are seven feet. Studio has been really consistent with this over the years: Marines are about seven feet tall. Some BL books might sometimes portray them as larger, but even those tend to be pretty damn vague, just like Ashirya's quote earlier (anything that uses descriptions like 'hands as big as shovels' is not a mathematically accurate description.)


Thanks for the reference. Don't happen to have a page number as well, do you?

 
   
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 Ashiraya wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
Current Chaos Marine Codex says marines (and it is talking about normal. non-chaos marines) are seven feet. Studio has been really consistent with this over the years: Marines are about seven feet tall. Some BL books might sometimes portray them as larger, but even those tend to be pretty damn vague, just like Ashirya's quote earlier (anything that uses descriptions like 'hands as big as shovels' is not a mathematically accurate description.)


The GW studio is amazingly inconsistent, contradicting themselves almost every other description and often in the same book.

Much more common than the 'Marines are 7 feet' statement is the 'Marines are giants/larger than humans/bigger than any mortal man/' et cetera ad nauseam that you will find every bloody where. This directly disproves the 7' notion, since if they had been 7' in armour they would not have been much taller than 6' outside of armour once you subtract the big footsoles and the top of the helmet (especially the big footsoles).

Just above 6' is not superhuman, gigantic, or even particularly big. It's not even far above average.

Which is it?


Most people aren't six feet tall either for a start. Historically, the average was five feet. I can imagine with the extremely harsh standards of life in the 40kiverse, that would be more common than not...

They're quite consistent on the seven to seven and a half foot thing.

So he wears six inch heels and a helmet that adds six inches to the top if his head. Think about it for a moment. It's Ridiculous.Yeah, bogus.

And 7' is only the realm of IGhammer fanboys who hate the idea of anything more powerful than a stormtrooper, and do everything they can do mitigate those things.


No, not really. No hate here. Just an honest appraisal of the ridiculousness of six inch heels and six inch armour on the top if a helmet of a marine. Oh and yeah, accepting the official word, as stated by the writers of the game.

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 Ashiraya wrote:

The GW studio is amazingly inconsistent, contradicting themselves almost every other description and often in the same book.

Not really. You're probably thinking BL.

Much more common than the 'Marines are 7 feet' statement is the 'Marines are giants/larger than humans/bigger than any mortal man/' et cetera ad nauseam that you will find every bloody where.

No you don't. Yes, it is often said they're really big, which seven feet certainly is. I've never seen it being stated that they're bigger than any mortal man.

This directly disproves the 7' notion, since if they had been 7' in armour they would not have been much taller than 6' outside of armour once you subtract the big footsoles and the top of the helmet (especially the big footsoles).

Armour adds couple of inches, and it is not really relevant whether they're about seven in or out of their armour. They're roughly seven feet anyway.

   
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If you look at the classic Jess Goodwin picture the Marine is 7' tall, standing with his feet slightly apart. Assuming he gets slightly taller when standing straight up (but loses and inch or two in combined boots and helmet thickness), they're probably somewhere between 7'3" and 7'6".

Terminator armor adding a considerable amount of height has always sounded silly. The same sized Space Marine has to fit in it. So unless it has platform soles, I don't see how it would do that. The Marine might be bulkier, but he's not going to be more than a couple inches taller, even if you include the top of the cowling.

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Mira from Space Marine is 1.80m (same as her male comrades). The marines are 2.2m with armor (the plateau shoes add only very little heigth), so exactly in the middle of jes goodwins measurement.

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Nice picture reference there.

By the way, does anyone have the Deathwatch books? It seems like most RPGs are very precise about these kinds of number, and I'd like to hear their opinion.

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Deadnight wrote:
 Ashiraya wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
Current Chaos Marine Codex says marines (and it is talking about normal. non-chaos marines) are seven feet. Studio has been really consistent with this over the years: Marines are about seven feet tall. Some BL books might sometimes portray them as larger, but even those tend to be pretty damn vague, just like Ashirya's quote earlier (anything that uses descriptions like 'hands as big as shovels' is not a mathematically accurate description.)


The GW studio is amazingly inconsistent, contradicting themselves almost every other description and often in the same book.

Much more common than the 'Marines are 7 feet' statement is the 'Marines are giants/larger than humans/bigger than any mortal man/' et cetera ad nauseam that you will find every bloody where. This directly disproves the 7' notion, since if they had been 7' in armour they would not have been much taller than 6' outside of armour once you subtract the big footsoles and the top of the helmet (especially the big footsoles).

Just above 6' is not superhuman, gigantic, or even particularly big. It's not even far above average.

Which is it?


They're quite consistent on the seven to seven and a half foot thing.

So he wears six inch heels and a helmet that adds six inches to the top if his head. Think about it for a moment. It's Ridiculous.Yeah, bogus.


I did not say it reduces him by a full foot.

But look at those soles, they are huge.

When you add the top of the helmet, he is not far above 6'.

Which is basically human average height, plus a couple of inches. Nothing special or out of the ordinary with that. Which contradicts every single statement about Space Marines that has ever been made and that does not involve numbers.

It'd be like writing everywhere that a boltgun is capable of extreme armour penetration and then listing its armour penetrating ability as up to 0,005 mm of steel when you feel like actually giving a number.

It doesn't add up.


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 Keep wrote:
Mira from Space Marine is 1.80m (same as her male comrades).



In Space Marine I can kill thousands of Orks alone (including nobs, tankbustas, skarboyz and 'ard boyz) outside of single player (so I'm only playing a standard assault marine), without dying. With no weapons other than chainsword and bolt pistol.

Games are reliable.

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 Ashiraya wrote:

I did not say it reduces him by a full foot.

But look at those soles, they are huge.

When you add the top of the helmet, he is not far above 6'.

Which is basically human average height, plus a couple of inches. Nothing special or out of the ordinary with that. Which contradicts every single statement about Space Marines that has ever been made and that does not involve numbers.



You kinda did though..

since if they had been 7' in armour they would not have been much taller than 6' outside of armour once you subtract the big footsoles and the top of the helmet (especially the big footsoles). unless I'm reading it wrong?

Twelve inches with heels and helmets? Six inches though fir heels? They didn't even wear those in the 70s! Can't see a space marine doing a disco stu, can you?

And again, get a helmet off an infantryman or soldier. It doesn't add six inches to your head height. Last thing a marine wants is to be a bigger target. It's simply impractical nonsensical design.

And average human height is a fair bit less than six foot. Especially for females. And historically, the average height decreased significantly, during the middle ages, it was about five feet. I can imagine in the horrible conditions of the 40kiverse, they're not really breeding excellent physical specimens of humanity all that often...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/04 22:57:42


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 Ashiraya wrote:

But look at those soles, they are huge.
When you add the top of the helmet, he is not far above 6'.
Which is basically human average height, plus a couple of inches. Nothing special or out of the ordinary with that. Which contradicts every single statement about Space Marines that has ever been made and that does not involve numbers.

"just a couple of inches"... 12-18" if you assume a large human. And at least double if not triple their shoulder width and at least 4times the mass. Yeah, right, i'm not sure with who'm you hang out with, but that is not ordinary and outright massive.

In Space Marine I can kill thousands of Orks alone, outside of single player (so I'm only playing a standard assault marine), without dying. With no weapons other than chainsword and bolt pistol.

So what? This is in no way different to many BL novels.... also, gameplay has nothing to do with the art work. Games make it that easy so you feel powerfull and mighty... Not because they couldnt think of better ideas how to make your life harder.

Also, what makes you think people in the imperium are as tall as people are today? IoM is rhich with desease and famine. They dont have fast food around every corner where they can binge on fatty food and meat whenever they want. Lack of quality food (in particulary access to meat) reduces the maximum heigth people grow to. Japanese have been way smaller in their past. Now they are almost comparable to europeans in average heigth because they have easy access to meat. The same will happen in China as well. During a famine in romania the children during that period where way smaller then everybody the ones before and after them, because of lack of meat and other food.
And average human height is a fair bit less than six foot. Especially for females. And historically, the average height decreased significantly, during the middle ages, it was about five feet. I can imagine in the horrible conditions of the 40kiverse, they're not really breeding excellent physical specimens of humanity all that often...
exactly. Lack of meat, diseases, etc.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/02/04 23:12:15



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