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Hey Everyone,

It's been awhile since I played this game, and being an Ork player, I never dealt with Rending all that much. I was reading my Ork Codex under Gifts and Gork and Mork, and I noticed the "Big Choppa of Death" something had a special rule that could read something like this.

Beheading Special Rule. Any to Wound roll of 6 will cause the Instant Death special rule.

I also noticed the Weapon had rending, so I looked that up...

I go Look up rending and it basically says and "To wound Roll of 6 automatically causes a Wound resolved at AP2.

So, I'm a bit confused. First, if the weapon causes Instant Death, on Wound of 6, why on earth would it need rending to give the model a wound if it's Dead?

Also, within the Rending rule itself, if you automatically cause a wound, why the need to say "at AP2" if the affected model won't even get a saving throw.

What am I missing here?

Instant Death doesn't ignore armour saves.

Wound =/= Unsaved Wound.

You can still get saves against wounds.

You need rending so you ignore the armour of whoever you're hitting.

 SilverDevilfish wrote:
Wound =/= Unsaved Wound.

You can still get saves against wounds.

You need rending so you ignore the armour of whoever you're hitting.

Perhaps I'm confused about the Wound roll of 6 automatically causes a Wound. I thought it meant they wouldn't get a save, but if it just means, they automatically take a wound and can still save, then wouldn't that happen without rending, In other words, When would a Wound roll of 6 NOT cause a wound?

against something with a toughness much higher than your strength.

Darkzephyr wrote:
When would a Wound roll of 6 NOT cause a wound?

When the target's Toughness is four points higher than the attacker's Strength.

How many T10 things are their? because even a basic ork character is S4 +2 for the Big Choppa is 6. Then of course on the charge its 7

 Ghazkuul wrote:
How many T10 things are their? because even a basic ork character is S4 +2 for the Big Choppa is 6. Then of course on the charge its 7

That might be true of Orks, but there are plenty of low strength models with rending.

 grendel083 wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
How many T10 things are their? because even a basic ork character is S4 +2 for the Big Choppa is 6. Then of course on the charge its 7

That might be true of Orks, but there are plenty of low strength models with rending.

I know it's not the best example, but black knights are only S5 rending. Can't think of many others sadly.

C: Eldar Harlequins are S3 Rending (if they take Kisses).

The AP2 element of rending is also quite nice.

Take the Callidus Assassin as an example. She has "Poison Blades", which are S:User, AP:-, Melee, Poisoned (2+), Rending.

So, say she attacks a Terminator. She has 4 attacks base, plus one for two weapons and another for charging. We'll say she hits with all 6 attacks and then rolls a 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 for the wounds. The 1 doesn't wound, but the rest do thanks to poision. The 2, 3, 4 and 5 are resolved at AP:- while the 6 is resolved at AP:2. The Terminator has to take four 2+ saves and one 5++ due to the Rending Wound. The Rending Wound is likely to be the one that kills the Termie.

personally i like the idea behind that Gift of Gork and mork but for 20pts it should be a lot better then a regular big choppa

Well, you're forgetting half of what rending does. Against a vehicle, a roll of 6 from a rending weapon adds and extra d3 to your armor penetratiom roll. On a Warboss, that big choppa, hitting at S7 could roll as high as a 16. When you consider that the highest AV on vehicles is 14, that would mean a Warboss with a rending big choppa would always at least glance any vehicle on a 6. Considering Instant Death does diddly to vehicles, that there would be why they gave it both.

Plus, as people have pointed out, the AP2 from the Rending and the 6+ ID from decapitating strike stack. Given that Headwoppa's KillChoppa is normally AP5, rending changes it from an ID weapon even most hoard armies would get an armor save against, to an ID weapon that even a space marine terminator loses its armor against.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
personally i like the idea behind that Gift of Gork and mork but for 20pts it should be a lot better then a regular big choppa

Rending and Decapitating Strike aren't already "a lot better than a regular big choppa"?

Not sure how the Warboss can reach that high, but decapitating a Wraithknight is great

 grendel083 wrote:
Not sure how the Warboss can reach that high, but decapitating a Wraithknight is great

Step-stool of Gork (or possibly Mork)

Keep in mind though that
1: most things the warboss is going to fight are only going to have 1 or 2 wounds, and only have T5 or less. Therefore having a 1 in 6 chance of insta killing it isnt as good as a power klaw hitting at S10 AP2 with the possibility of hitting 5 times. So now your insta killing 5 termies instead of just 1, (yes the 5++ withstanding).

There are plenty of T6+ Monstrous creatures who wouldn't be phased by a power klaw, but the choppa could be trouble.

The other thing is that the Choppa goes at Initiative. Not that ork initiative is impressive, but it will be before other nasty weapons. Could give you a chance to kill a character before he swings his power fist or thunderhammer.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Keep in mind though that
1: most things the warboss is going to fight are only going to have 1 or 2 wounds, and only have T5 or less. Therefore having a 1 in 6 chance of insta killing it isnt as good as a power klaw hitting at S10 AP2 with the possibility of hitting 5 times. So now your insta killing 5 termies instead of just 1, (yes the 5++ withstanding).

The one benefit I think Headwoppa's Killchoppa has over a power klaw, though is that it's not Unwieldy. So for a Warboss hitting on Init 4, the Killchoppa might be the way to go. On any other Ork, you might as well got with the power klaw, though. I mean, at Init 2 or 3, just about everybody is gomma be hitting before you, so it doesn't really matter how long before you they do it.

keep in mind though that it is 20pts where as a Power Klaw is 5 pts more and has a better chance of ignoring armor. Thats my biggest point. A monstrerous creature might not be able to take an instant death rending hit but then again it probably wouldnt be able to take 3-5 S10 Ap2 hits either. Yeah the Init is better for the headwhoppa but in most Ork armies the best way to kill vehicles is with Pk's so PKs are the bread and butter for my lists.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
keep in mind though that it is 20pts where as a Power Klaw is 5 pts more and has a better chance of ignoring armor. Thats my biggest point. A monstrerous creature might not be able to take an instant death rending hit but then again it probably wouldnt be able to take 3-5 S10 Ap2 hits either. Yeah the Init is better for the headwhoppa but in most Ork armies the best way to kill vehicles is with Pk's so PKs are the bread and butter for my lists.

I get that. I play SW, so I'm used to relying on melee units rather than big guns as my main anti-tank weapons. On most Orks, the power klaw is definitely the obvious choice. But I think if you've got an I4 model, there's definitely gonna be merit to a non un-wieldy weapon. Eventually you're gonna have to go up against infantry, and that's where those power klaws can give you trouble.

Since my Freeboota Warboss is modelled with a large Choppa, I was more than happy when a suitable gift was released! He's been going for Monstrous Creatures ever since

The fun thing is that you can bring both a PK and the killchoppa on a warboss, and choose which you want to use in a phase.

Honestly though, the killchoppa is very much a 'fun' choice. A power klaw on a warboss is a more reliable choice almost all of the time. Even against T6+ stuff, I'd be happier with str 10 ap2 - wounding on 2+, no armor saves, than holding my breath for a lucky 6. V. a wraithknight, for example, a killchoppa is too long odds. Maybe if it charged you through difficult terrain, challenged, and you wanted to try and kill it before I1. But those are some LONG odds, and if you wiff it's a dead warboss.

Like others have said though, even though a 6 may inflict an auto-wound, the target would still get an armor save if not for the rending special rule. that's what makes the killchoppa useful.

He's actually probably got a pretty good chance of killing a lot of MCs before they swing too. Roughly 41% of the time he'll roll at least one 6 if my math is correct.

The other thing worth mentioning is models with FnP lose FnP against wounds with ID, so even if they have eternal warrior or something they would lose the benefit of fnP versus to wound rolls of 6 with the killchoppa. Instant death also reduces the Ressurection protocol roll for necrons.

which is sometimes useful.

 Grey Templar wrote:
He's actually probably got a pretty good chance of killing a lot of MCs before they swing too. Roughly 41% of the time he'll roll at least one 6 if my math is correct.

It'd vary on quite a few factors, such as passing his fear test, having an attack squig, WS of the target, but there's a fair chance of rolling a 6. My issue is that a lot of scary melee MCs have an I better than 4 anyways, and are characters to boot. 1 on 1, a warboss stands almost zero chance v. melee, character MCs, and against non character MCs, or not-so-great melee MCs, a power klaw will deal more reliable damage.

Sure, it would be sexy to behead a carnifex before it gets to swing, but a power klaw is a better bet most of the time.

But like I said, you can always bring both for versatility, and it's not that terribly expensive.

Well he is hiding in a unit of boyz that have a PK nob right? Its not he's going out to solo a Wraithknight.

*corrected

Rending's AP2 doesn't* add +1 to the vehicle damage chart.

 Byte wrote:
AP2 is also +1 to the vehicle damage chart.

Rends don't get the benefit of AP1/2 against vehicles, just the +d3

 greyknight12 wrote:

 Byte wrote:
AP2 is also +1 to the vehicle damage chart.

Rends don't get the benefit of AP1/2 against vehicles, just the +d3

Thanks for the correction. Got mixed up.

 grendel083 wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
How many T10 things are their? because even a basic ork character is S4 +2 for the Big Choppa is 6. Then of course on the charge its 7

That might be true of Orks, but there are plenty of low strength models with rending.

My personal favorite, daemonettes!