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120 points for what your get is actually still very good. I get the no additional hits on 6s after a jink, even so.

What say you? Anni-barge cost too much now in points now, not viable?

No it's still really good just that before people were using it as a AA anti everything platform.

It's absolutely fine now, just toned down enough that we'll hopefully stop seeing so many lazy spam lists of it and maybe get a few more lists with any ounce of personality whatsoever.

The only actual problem with these changes is they took away any reason to take Tesla for infantry.

Maybe the death toll for spam ability at the highest levels of competitive play, but certainly still viable. And I don't mean viable as in "you have a chance if you're playing dark angels". Sorry dark angels btw. I played Deathwing myself.

They're now appropriately costed instead of being patently undercosted (this goes for the night scythe as well). The codex has great internal balance and synergy. I think we're going to see a lot of variety in Necron lists and many of them will work well. I don't mean to sound naïve, but this might be actual progress by GW. Now if they could only fix Ctans....

It's fine as it is now.
Personally I'm not taking it, because I prefer a legion-styled army with some C'tan. The only vehicles I take are transports for my troops and triarch stalkers for judicator batalions.

 Byte wrote:
120 points for what your get is actually still very good. I get the no additional hits on 6s after a jink, even so.

What say you? Anni-barge to costs too much now in points now, not viable?

With the inability to hit flyers the same without tesla the night scythe almost completely wins as your choice of vehicle to field the Tesla Destructor. The only benifit that the AB beats the NS is that the AB can hold objectives and starts on the board. If your taking AB over NS then your doing it wrong.

If you want to build a flyer spam list now, I'd suggest the Doom formation instead. The formation benefit is pretty minimal, but the relative upgrade cost for the second gun has gone way down, and an S10 lance is ideal for heavy vehicle popping.

I didn't mention NSs, but OK.

 Byte wrote:
I didn't mention NSs, but OK.

Well, as an Annihilation Barge's entire purpose is to be a Tesla Destructor platform, the other two Tesla Destructor platforms (Three if you include Night Shroud, I guess) are relevant to a measure of it's viability.

changemod wrote:
If you want to build a flyer spam list now, I'd suggest the Doom formation instead. The formation benefit is pretty minimal, but the relative upgrade cost for the second gun has gone way down, and an S10 lance is ideal for heavy vehicle popping.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/634766.page
Agreed. But the thread is anni-barges.

 Byte wrote:
120 points for what your get is actually still very good. I get the no additional hits on 6s after a jink, even so.

What say you? Anni-barge cost too much now in points now, not viable?

A A-Barge is dead.

Just look at the lists that have been posted since the new codex dropped, there are no A-Barges in them.

The Old A-Barge was cheap, great while jinking, great for anti-air support.
The new A-Barge is none of those.

Is it still playable? Sure, but so were Flayed Ones last edition, and look at how much play they got.

 Tomb King wrote:

 Byte wrote:
120 points for what your get is actually still very good. I get the no additional hits on 6s after a jink, even so.

What say you? Anni-barge to costs too much now in points now, not viable?

With the inability to hit flyers the same without tesla the night scythe almost completely wins as your choice of vehicle to field the Tesla Destructor. The only benifit that the AB beats the NS is that the AB can hold objectives and starts on the board. If your taking AB over NS then your doing it wrong.

So Q.shielding brings nothing? Not that Im disagreeing with you. Its just seems your comparing apples and raw meat(both are food). I get they have the same weapon but overall they play COMPLETELY different rolls.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 adamsouza wrote:

 Byte wrote:
120 points for what your get is actually still very good. I get the no additional hits on 6s after a jink, even so.

What say you? Anni-barge cost too much now in points now, not viable?

Just look at the lists that have been posted since the new codex dropped, there are no A-Barges in them.

Is it still playable? Sure, but so were Flayed Ones last edition, and look at how much play they got.

Ahhh, that doesn't say much. Most killy lists present themselves after big tourney play. With all the "what did he use threads?".

I understand your point, but I've played Dark Harvest FOs for sometime now. Again, doesn't mean much but wanted to throw that out there.

I think the bigger issue than any nerfs is the inability to really take them in the decurion. Sure you can take the annihilation matrix formation but due to the point cost taxes of the decurion it will not be a popular choice. As such, you will likely only see A-barges in CAD detachments which is less of an explanation of nerfs rather than choices of the decurion.

 adamsouza wrote:
Just look at the lists that have been posted since the new codex dropped, there are no A-Barges in them.

That is probably because we now have actual options and people want to try that out

I think they are still good.
Not 'try and take two CADs so you can field six of them'-good, but more a 'I have points left, let's take a Barge'-good.
And when I am building an AV13-army, I would still take one or two.
It's just not the auto-include it used to be.

 buddha wrote:
I think the bigger issue than any nerfs is the inability to really take them in the decurion. Sure you can take the annihilation matrix formation but due to the point cost taxes of the decurion it will not be a popular choice. As such, you will likely only see A-barges in CAD detachments which is less of an explanation of nerfs rather than choices of the decurion.

Excellent point Sir.

It lost Arc and snap-shotting tesla benefit (which let them Jink all the time). If they didn't, people would still field it at the actual price.

It's still a good unit, but with Heavy Destroyers on HS slot, new Doomsday Ark and Night Scythes more survivable... Oh, and the Obelisk packs more punch for less than 3 A-Barges. I'd say A-Barges will see much more field battles on casual lists than tourney ones.

The Old A-Barge was cheap, great while jinking, great for anti-air support.
The new A-Barge is none of those.

Other than already owning the model, and wanting to use it, why would you field an A-Barge now ?

The Tesla Nerf hit it's firepower and anti-air capability, while making it more expensive. I just don't see what role it fills, well enough, to justify including it an army list.

The Anni-Barge has taken several hits with this new Codex. The points increase and the nerf to Tesla* pretty much killed it as an effective AA platform (but hooray for Tomb Blades with N-Scopes on a Quad Gun!). You can't take it in the shiny new Decurion unless you really want the Doomsday Ark with it. It's still a decent unit to use, but it's no longer the auto-take it once was. And I think that's the problem: a "decent" unit often isn't good enough for those who care about competitive play. I would still toss one in when I play a CAD, maybe even both of the two I have, but it would be near the end of my list making and not near the beginning.

*I really wish they could have come up with an alternative version of Tesla rather than the lazy choice they made with it in the Codex. Tesla was only an "issue" because the Anni-Barge was cheap, can jink with a 4+ in 7th, and still put at least 3 S7 hits on anything it wanted to. It was the platform that was always the issue, never the weapon itself. It's not like anybody was ever afraid of Tesla Immortals and their extra hits.

*mistake

Not looking good for the AB. Very valid points here.

"Tesla does not apply if the unit jinked". There, fixed the vehicle problem without ruining it for troops.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
The Anni-Barge has taken several hits with this new Codex. The points increase and the nerf to Tesla* pretty much killed it as an effective AA platform (but hooray for Tomb Blades with N-Scopes on a Quad Gun!). You can't take it in the shiny new Decurion unless you really want the Doomsday Ark with it. It's still a decent unit to use, but it's no longer the auto-take it once was. And I think that's the problem: a "decent" unit often isn't good enough for those who care about competitive play. I would still toss one in when I play a CAD, maybe even both of the two I have, but it would be near the end of my list making and not near the beginning.

*I really wish they could have come up with an alternative version of Tesla rather than the lazy choice they made with it in the Codex. Tesla was only an "issue" because the Anni-Barge was cheap, can jink with a 4+ in 7th, and still put at least 3 S7 hits on anything it wanted to. It was the platform that was always the issue, never the weapon itself. It's not like anybody was ever afraid of Tesla Immortals and their extra hits.

Apparently some people hated that about Immortals. A dude at LO complained at least once that the snap shots being effectively BS3 was too good.

Meh, there are people in this very forum that would hate on anything that Necrons could do better than a Space Marine.

Now the hate is just shifting from Tesla and annihialtion barges to Reanimation Protocols and Wraiths.

Anni barges are still really decent. The bigger issue is what now competes with them.

To me the doom scythe has been glossed over pretty heavily to date. For 30 pts on a NS (40 over a barge) you get a S10 ap1 lance blast that not only hits ground armour but combats flyers and can target FMCs with the death ray. I wouldn't be suprised if people start running these at least in pairs.

dominuschao wrote:
Anni barges are still really decent. The bigger issue is what now competes with them.

To me the doom scythe has been glossed over pretty heavily to date. For 30 pts on a NS (40 over a barge) you get a S10 ap1 lance blast that not only hits ground armour but combats flyers and can target FMCs with the death ray. I wouldn't be suprised if people start running these at least in pairs.

Agreed, I think a lot of folks are more in tune than you might think. Its just shiny codex syndrome right now and wraiths/destroyers are being the interwebs distraction. I'm confident the successful tourney builds have yet to be revealed.

The Doomscythe formation is sick. Heres a list I put together utilizing anni-barges in the heavy slots and the D.scythe formation. I'm still gonna run it(despite all the AB hate) just to see how it plays. I have all the models so no big deal.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/634766.page

Too expensive. New points cost would be ok with the old AB, but the additional nerf to Tesla and the resulting nerf to its anti-air capabilities was too much.

Personally, I don't think it's worth taking. And if I do take it, I literally don't care if it dies. The fact that Tesla doesn't have anything special as far as a Heavy support option (S7 with mediocre range and no ap). Even before the nerf I never used more than 2 max, simply because I like other options better. Now that they not only nerfed Tesla, but made it more expensive, there's little reason to take it, besides maybe the Decurion formation.

You can spend 10 points more for a Night Scythe with more mobility, arguable more durable since it's a flyer, and same firepower, plus transport capacity. I'll be relying on my Doom Scythe and Doomsday Ark to do most of my heavy lifting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Too expensive. New points cost would be ok with the old AB, but the additional nerf to Tesla and the resulting nerf to its anti-air capabilities was too much.

Exactly. Make it more expensive, OR nerf tesla. Doing both just kills any kind of attractiveness to the model.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Too expensive. New points cost would be ok with the old AB, but the additional nerf to Tesla and the resulting nerf to its anti-air capabilities was too much.

Nooo. Just no. 120 points for an AV13 skimmer that can jink and fire just as effectively at ground targets and air targets would still be too low.

Look at the Mortis Dread: 180+ points for an AV 13 walker with a 5++ that must remain stationary to gain skyfire. . . with S6 weaponry.

 astro_nomicon wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Too expensive. New points cost would be ok with the old AB, but the additional nerf to Tesla and the resulting nerf to its anti-air capabilities was too much.

Nooo. Just no. 120 points for an AV13 skimmer that can jink and fire just as effectively at ground targets and air targets would still be too low.

Look at the Mortis Dread: 180+ points for an AV 13 walker with a 5++ that must remain stationary to gain skyfire. . . with S6 weaponry.

But, as I said, just spend 10 points more for a Night Scythe. Problem solved. The reason the A-barge was used a lot for that purpose was because it sucked against most other ground targets. Sure, good number of shots, slow as a rock, no ap, ext. There's little reason to use one now.

 astro_nomicon wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Too expensive. New points cost would be ok with the old AB, but the additional nerf to Tesla and the resulting nerf to its anti-air capabilities was too much.

Nooo. Just no. 120 points for an AV13 skimmer that can jink and fire just as effectively at ground targets and air targets would still be too low.

Look at the Mortis Dread: 180+ points for an AV 13 walker with a 5++ that must remain stationary to gain skyfire. . . with S6 weaponry.

The AB is NOT a AV13 skimmer. It's one of the biggest misconceptions people have. It's AV 13 before the first penetrating shot - and on top of that, it's Open-Topped. And come on:

fire just as effectively at ground targets and air targets

That's a lie and you know it.

 Sigvatr wrote:

fire just as effectively at ground targets and air targets

That's a lie and you know it.

Wow, a little testy are we?