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Interested in hearing thoughts on what I would like to dub "happypants config" (if there isn't already a name for it)

Missle Pod / Burst Cannon / Multi Track

It is obviously aimed more at killing light infantry instead of MEQ and also comes in at a cost effective 50pts

If there is already a name for the happypants config I would like to dub the following HQ the Happypants Shas'el

Burst Cannon/CIB/Target Array/HW MT = 88pts

Again, it is aimed at light infantry.

later
d<---- who really just want something named after his dumb screen name

Then find something special in the new codex and prove why it is special. Find a tactic and explain why it works. JTS has niiken'ryu to describe his combined arms tactics. The torgoch suit was an mathematically provable exception to the universal rule of 'never twin-link'. Pathfinder 'Alpha Strikes' were first argued for by Piccolo (although I think JTS named it).

If you want something, you have to contribute something, and have that contribution recognised by other dakkaites, particularly I would say, Me, Spooky, Orlanth, Davian, Syr, Phyrxis, and others who have been round a bit.  

I think this Crisis Suit configuration is probably the most optimal you can have:

Check it out.

Shas-O with:  Twin Linked Flamers, Multi-tracker, Black Sun Filter, Targeting Array, Hard Wired Drone Controller, - 2x Shield Drones, Ejection Mechanism, Self Destruct Mechanism

You need the multi-tracker, because all the other "good" crisis builds have it and you should always take the targetting array: BS-6 to make sure you hit!  Players often forget the black-sun filter.  You should definitely invest in it - you don't want to be cursing your luck if you can't see your opponent in a night fight and you want to cause those re-rollable wounds.  You'll also want 2x shield drones to protect your investment from bolter-fire.  And in the case his suit is blown up, you'll want the ejection mechanism.  You never want your boss-man in HTH, but if he is and he has to fall back, SELF DESTRUCT!!!!!!111!!!!one.

F0r teH Gr8t0r G00D!!!

(And for ye of little faith, don't worry, I've used my source-er-ous powers to determine that in the 5th Ed Tau Codex, this will be super-over-powered due to GW's points / stats correction tendencies)

Hey Torgoch... you think we could give this one a name?  Maybe the:

Never-ever-take-this- pattern crisis suit? or the Waste-of-points pattern MK-I?

Lol, you sure its not dangerously vulnerable to lasguns?

Posted By torgoch on 04/26/2006 10:32 AM
Lol, you sure its not dangerously vulnerable to lasguns?

OK. Here's some statistics vs Lasguns for the greatest Crisis Suit Ever.

It takes on average:


Each lasgun has a 1/2 x 1/3 x 1/3 or 1/18 chance of bringing down a a shield drone (T5)
Each lasgun has a 1/2 x 1/3 x 1/3 or 1/18 chance of placing a wound on the Shas-O (T5)
Each lasgun has a 1/2 x 1/3 x 1/2 or 1/8 chance of placing a wound on the "naked" Shas-O (T3)


So. We need 36 shots to reliably bring down the shield drones, and another 72 shots (18x4 wounds) to shuck old stumpy out of his crisis suit, and then another 8 shots to polish off mr happy once he's running around in his birthday suit. That's a total of 116 lasgun shots to claim full victory points!

Vulnerable against lasguns?!?? I THINK NOT!

Actually Keezus...its called the Greatest Crisis Suit EVAR!

What he needs is to refit the Targeting Array for a Positional Relay. This suit is so hard that he only needs one Reserve a turn to help out. The Reserve chosen arrives on a 2+!! The rest dont get to come on, so there are fewer Tau on the board so your Commander can ROXOR over more of the enemy on his own.

Keezus, if you ever fielded that thing against me in a tournament, I'd definitely give you zero comp.







Seriously, I would, since you obviously have no sense of army composition if you field it. ;P

Yeah, but just think about it ? it only takes 696 points of lasguns to do that, whereas it takes 870 points of marines. I think you?ve just proved how unbelievably broken guardsman really are.

Joking aside, has anyone found a use for the twin-linked flamers yet, or are they simply a waste of points regardless? Seems to me that they're a dead cheap option for a monat in cityfight/other high terrain games. Against GEq in cover (bunched up), I don't think you'd need to be too lucky to get 7+ hits; wounding around 5 or 6 with no save. Seems good against guardians/orks/guard, particularly in take and hold games.

Combined with a missile pod, it might make for a nice distracting unit to run up a flank or ward people off grabbing a building with GEq.

I doubt it's that effective, and you are burning an elite slot ? but you can make pop-up attacks on the cheap, and it'll provide useful distraction. Anyone care to run the math-hammer on it?

I do like flamers, and I'd prefer a bit of variety to the ol' fireknife configs... So how can you make them work?

At least in my opinion, twinlinked flamers aren't a waste of points, they're a waste of the extra hardpoint. But, as a single weapon, flamers do have their applications. Primarily, they're an alternative, cheaper way to fill the third hardpoint on a suit with a twinlinked weapon, as opposed to putting a target array in that slot.

I think the most useful flamer-inclusive configurations would be twin missile + flamer and twin fusion + flamer. They're relatively cheap and are reasonably effective at performing either one of two roles. If you're only going to be firing one of the two weapons, there really isn't any point in those two weapons having a similar role, ruling out burst cannons. Twin plasma could work maaaaaaaybe, but that's a stretch.

I could see someone using a burst cannon + flamer configuration with a multitracker in situations where you're gearing up for antihorde work ahead of time, but I don't see any place for it in an all-comers list, especially with all the other sources of massed S5 shots.

The torgoch suit was an mathematically provable exception to the universal rule of 'never twin-link'.

torgoch, do you want to go over this? I'm not sure I'm familliar with...

I notice that GW typically makes T-L weapons cost half again as much as the normal weapon. This is obviously the case with Tau. At BS3, this seems like a fairly direct correlation between cost and improvement. Thus, all else being equal, not a bad idea at BS3.

In my current list, I've got a 3 man Deathrain squad with Targetting Arrays. There's a couple ways to look at it, but the bottom line is that twinlinking a BS4 weapon doesn't improve it by 50%, it only improves by about 33%, but it still costs 50% more. That does somewhat concern me from a number crunching perspective... On the other hand, if I want to use those suits just to sit back and shoot Missiles all game, then that's what I want to make them good at. Twinlinking seems a decent option, though not from a numbers perspective, more from a "easier to find useful cover 36" away, than 18" away" perspective.

it costs 50% more for the weapon, but the weapon is mounted on a suit which has a fixed points overhead. so the price difference overall, counting the suit, is not 50% more.

eg. shas'el with single missile is 50+12, with twin is 50+18. thats 9% or something difference in pts.

Why would you ever twinlink a weapon on a commander, though, when he can take a target array and hardwired multitracker?

The point I was trying to make is that if you want to specialize an Elite suit to supplement your railguns in vehicle-popping, the missile pod and the fusion blaster are your best options. A Missile + Fusion + Multitracker configuration suffers from the range difference in the two weapons. If you hang back, you're losing the fusion shot, and if you get close, the missile is not giving you the extra penetration die. Instead, it would make more sense to take a twinlinked version of one of those two said weapons. If you do that, you could put a target array in the third hardpoint to further increase accuracy, or a target lock, but those suits get locked into a single role and their effectiveness drops off sharply if there is not a vehicle-rich environment. Putting a flamer in that third slot gives you the option of an alternate role for the suit, while keeping the overall points cost as low as possible, and the flamer doesn't require twinlinking or a decent BS to be effective. It's not something you want to rely on, but the possibility of flaming can act as a (small) deterrant, and if all else fails, they're cheap enough to keep hidden as objective-grabbers/holders.

As I see it, under the new codex, the best Crisis configurations would be Fireknife and Aurora, with Deathrain a step or two behind, and Helios and Sunforge on the third tier. The top two should be the defaults for generalized lists, but all of those (with slight variations for Team Leaders and HQ suits) are efficient enough to have a decent benefit in certain list compositions. I honestly wouldn't bother with any other loadouts, though, and I personally only use the top three.

This is not right in line with the thread, but can someonedescribe the different weapon fits that make up the crisis suit configurations or point me somewhere that does?