Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I often see people making lists with dev. squads in them, I don't really get why?

I know that having 4 HB's in a squad is impossible anywhere else, but the cost is kind of excessive, for slightly more than the points of an 8man dev squad w/ hb's you get a pred des & a tornado

Elementary my dear Watson:  8 Man Dev squad, take four wounds (usually a lot more than 4 shots), still fully effective.  Predator and Tornado could be blown up with only two shots, if not blown up, incapacitated within turn 1.  Survivability. 

8 Man Dev squad, take four wounds (usually a lot more than 4 shots), still fully effective. Predator and Tornado could be blown up with only two shots, if not blown up, incapacitated within turn 1

Is is true that infantry are more survivable than vehicles, but your statement is somewhat misleading. You say that the Devs will take "usually a lot more than 4 shots" and then say that the vehicles "could be blown up in 2 shots," and failing that, could become "incapacitated" in turn 1. You're putting a typical scenario vs. a worst case/almost worst case scenario.

That's just not entirely fair.

But you are certainly right in your assertion that vehicles are more easily crippled than squads of infantry.

Devs also start on the board in Escalation.

Worst case scenario or not, I to have seen tanks totaly destroyed in turn one before even getting off a shot. I like to take a mix in my heavy support slots. Tanks and Infantry options.
Although now tanks can fire on the move better I may be re-thinking this.

Of course my main army is SoB. You just can't ignore 4 HB's with divine guidence.

Posted By Psyche on 04/25/2006 5:39 PM
Of course my main army is SoB. You just can't ignore 4 HB's with divine guidence.

Sure you can! Their range is only 36" and they are one of the first units to be deployed. Say out of range and render them useless. That is of course assuming that you do not NEED to enter their range to nab an objective, etc...

I meant that you can't ignore it as a choice to take, not ignore it as something you opponent will have.
But anyway, I have found my opponents are far more worried about the exorcist tanks.

Because they stay back and hold your quarter, 4 heavy Bolters is not a big target early and so dont lose lots of casulties... buy the time your opponent tries to root them out they probably moved behind the cover they started in. They, when played smartly, almost guarantee your gonna own/contest your own quarter.

Tanks rarely make it into scoring situations anymore, against good players.

Devastators can be useful,

1. They deploy on escalation.
2. They can use cover.
3. Lots of shots which at ap4 negate most infantry armour.
4. Void shields at 15 points each.
5. 36" range, quite how blue loki intends to stay out of range for 6 turns puzzles me.
6. 12 Strength five shots against light vehicles is very useful against vipers, speeders and raiders are a lot of fun.

On the flip side all the other options are overpriced, even missiles.

I must say that dev squads are one of the things I always hate to see on the other side of the board. Tanks I can usually take down fairly quickly and with only minimal effort. Dev squads take time and effort to get rid of. This is particularly true since they are virtually guaranteed to be in 4+ cover and its particularly foolish to "charge the guns" and attempt to engage them in hand to hand. If you are still concerned about them, watch some games where they get used along side some tanks. See which (the devs or the tank) is still around at the end of the game. Heavy bolters are probably not the best option to go with when you are fighting MEQ's, but against anything else (like my eldar for example) they are hell on wheels. I definatly would not discount them as a viable option.

Posted" by="" the="" cabbage="" on="" 07/10/2006="" 7:15="" am="">
4. Void shields at 15 points each.

huh?

Ablative wounds. (extra marines)

On the flip side all the other options are overpriced, even missiles.

I think that's just a matter of taste; I find 4 ML Devs to be quite worth their cost, for their versatility and killing power.

Posted By lord_sutekh on 07/10/2006 11:01 PM

On the flip side all the other options are overpriced, even missiles.

I think that's just a matter of taste; I find 4 ML Devs to be quite worth their cost, for their versatility and killing power.

You are probably right, I just haven't got four launcher models and still think maybe a bit pricey.  But yeh personal thing.

Posted By Gabe on 07/10/2006 3:14 PM

Posted" by="" the="" cabbage="" on="" 07/10/2006="" 7:15="" am="">
4. Void shields at 15 points each.

huh?

I've been very pleased with my devastators.  I use either missiles or heavy bolters, and both work well.  While the missiles are obviously good against vehicles, don't forget what four krak missiles a round can do to MEQs.

I'm going to be trying out some 6 Man/3 ML Devs this weekend. At 150 points it's a bit more cost effective than the 8 Man/4ML Dev Squad. I'd rather leave the HB type duties to other facets of the army, plus I'm just not so big on the HB Marine Model, but that's just me.

I saw a havoc squad with 4 autocannons with tank hunters. 8 strength 8 shots against vehicles. Hmmmmmm

I saw a havoc squad with 4 autocannons with tank hunters. 8 strength 8 shots against vehicles. Hmmmmmm

Only for chaos... Yes.. Chaos

Just as an additional thought, with Traits it is also possible to get Dev's to infiltrate. Never a fun thing to have those heavy bolters (or plasma cannons, or lascannons) shooting at the REAR armor :-)

-Hans

Posted By Hans on 07/21/2006 10:07 PM
Just as an additional thought, with Traits it is also possible to get Dev's to infiltrate. Never a fun thing to have those heavy bolters (or plasma cannons, or lascannons) shooting at the REAR armor :-)

-Hans

Hans brings up a good point.  If you really love heavy weapons, then "Honour Your Wargear" is a given.  I figure you could build a good shooty list around infiltrating and tank-hunting devastators.

Well, most people infiltrate their devs to get into a good position (i.e lining up heavy boolters on a gaunt squad).

Chuck

In my Ultramarine army I have one 6 man dev squad with 3 HB and one 6 man dev squad with 3 ML. They work great and are very cost effective.

Capt K

I played a game against a Tau player, and every turn I downed a devilfish or killed most of a squad to force a Ld test. I used 2 lascannons and two ML. Very versatile to. I am able to kill clumps of enemy, heavy infatry, light infantry, light vehicles and heavy vehicles. And all this was without tankhunters or infiltrating. Maybe I just got lucky, but dev squads are great!

Yes, but a few battle cannons or earthshakers on a Dev Squad or just plain tons of longer ranged (and usually powerful) shots can wipe out a 150+ point section of your army in one turn, or make them run away and spend turns taking up a new position. Tanks are probably more useful against IG and other swarmers like Tryanids and Orks, but Devs are good against pretty much everything else. Infiltrating Plasma Cannons on some Necrons or Chaos is mean (if you get the first turn).

Jump the same can be said about tanks, a few BC or Earthshaker rounds on them and they are guaranteed to be worthless the rest of the game. Devs can at least get cover saves.

Posted By chuckyhol on 07/26/2006 11:38 AM
Well, most people infiltrate their devs to get into a good position (i.e lining up heavy boolters on a gaunt squad).

Chuck

Well that or just having them set up on the board last rather than first helps alot!

Posted By DarkHellion on 08/03/2006 11:19 AM
Jump the same can be said about tanks, a few BC or Earthshaker rounds on them and they are guaranteed to be worthless the rest of the game. Devs can at least get cover saves.

I agree.  Devastators should be deployed into cover, the heavier the better.

Dev squads are fantastic. at 200 points, my 8 man 4 ML squad is ALWAYS an all star. They can take out any vehicle in the game, and with frag missles they are very useful against hoardes and MEQ's in cover. I have never regretted taking them.

Imperial tanks, baring a few exceptions, are total point sinks. One glancing shot, and they are not firing for a turn, therefore rendering them nearly useless. A vehicle that is not firing is not earning points. I suppose they are good for mobile cover or to absorb fire but a cheap Rhino serves just as well as an expensive Pred or, god forbid, a land raider. I cant tell you how many times i have seen a raider get destroyed turn one. I have yet to see a dev squad destroyed turn one. Unless you deploy the squad in the wide open and your opponant gets lucky and rolls a direct hit on a clumped up dev squad with heavy ordanance and then wounds all of them, it just isnt going to happen. IMHO, the only imperial vehicles worth taking are the cheapest, to be used as destractions, mobile cover, or to sieze/contest objectives. the big tanks will get lucky and shine once in a while but in my experiance, they rarely survive a game or get their points back, where dev's nearly always do. the only notable exception to this are the indirect weapons, such as whirlwinds and basilisks, which i feel are great tools.

In the last 6 months of gaming, i have only lost my entire dev squad once and that was on turn six after my opponant had been pouring massive fire into them. typically they rarely even go below half and hold onto my table quarter very well.

If vehicles had wounds like an MC (which, go figure, are cheaper and so so so much better), they would be great and much more viable. However, as they do not, only a limited amount of vehicles in the game are really worth the points, and if you think about it, the best vehicles are those that ignore most of the damage table, ie. Falcons, cahos possessed vehicles, hammerheads.

Your missing one of the advantages of vehicles. Mobile firepower.

A huge major advantage. Mobile firepower is vital for a take all comers list.

Suit heavy or mech tau eat devastator heavy lists alive.