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Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!





Chicago

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
 Ustrello wrote:
Well we all can't idolize men who take over government buildings and threaten to shoot people and cry when they get shot when they reach for guns


I don't. What they did was dumb, and the guys they were doing it for even said it was dumb.

You can't idolize men that take over government buildings, but you certainly are good at straw-man statements. At least you have that to go with your bruised ego.

 Galas wrote:
And, people please, lets chill a little, shal we? Things are getting a little intense and I have seen some breaks of the 1# rule.


No worries, I'm still planning my riot. You want anything from Starbuck's? I'm gonna loot me a White Chocolate Mocha.


Well seeing how you were vehemently defending them to score some cheap points because you are angry about liberals, nah I don't think I am the one with the bruised ego

Ustrello paints- 30k, 40k multiple armies
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/614742.page 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

Oh yeah, I always think that its stupid when people defend states like North Korea, the China of Mao, Cuba, Venezuela or the URSS (Thats lest be honest here, its all shroug in a giant cloud of propaganda for both sides) just becuase they label itselfs as Communist when from the beginning they breaked many of the core values of the real Communism system. A system that again, I find irrealizable because it takes the human nature and elevates it as Divine.

But then I suppose Communist and Nazism dictators pale in comparasion to the body count of Capitalist states throug the years, no? If that its just the measure system we are using.

And personally, I think the comercialization of the Che Guevara T-shirts its the biggest win of Capitalism over Communism

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/04/17 22:38:34


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority





 Ustrello wrote:
Well seeing how you were vehemently defending them to score some cheap points because you are angry about liberals, nah I don't think I am the one with the bruised ego


Defending them? Not at all. I think you should re-read that and see where I thought it was a good idea and supported them. I just don't think it was this nasty case of terrorism, it's nothing compared to driving a truck through a crowded group of Christmas shoppers, wouldn't you say?

However, I think stealing is wrong. Of course I will think that stealing a bottle of booze from a liquor store is nothing compared to stealing a bunch of life-saving medication from an emergency vehicle near a massive disaster. It's a matter of scale, you see.

And when something happens, and the only people that end up dead are the criminals- I fail to see the problem.

 Galas wrote:
But then I suppose Communist and Nazism dictators pale in comparasion to the body count of Capitalist states throug the years, no? If that its just the measure system we are using.


Tell me the story about how Sam Walton lined up people who didn't want to work at Wal-Mart and shot them in the back of the head for Capitalism.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/04/17 22:38:52


Mob Rule is not a rule. 
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

IMHO, the only difference between a Commie and a Nazi- the Commies were indiscriminate about who they mass-murdered. That's why they got the high score.


The Nazis had 12 years, Stalin and Mao had much more than that. Give Hitler a little time...

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:


You can't idolize men that take over government buildings, but you certainly are good at straw-man statements. At least you have that to go with your bruised ego.


Pot. Kettle. Black. For instance:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

Tell me the story about how Sam Walton lined up people who didn't want to work at Wal-Mart and shot them in the back of the head for Capitalism.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/17 22:40:19


For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





 Galas wrote:
Hmmm... I suppose that it has to be expected being this an US thread but... why is Communism, the teorical communism writted by Karl Marx, a system that personally even being Marxist I don't think its realizable, more deadly than the Nacionalsocialist movement? Because, you know, dictators are dictators no mater the colour, but one system has the genocidal "Purge" of humans as a core of his values...


Because Mao, Stalin, The GDR (east germany), Nicolae Ceausescu, North Korea, Viet Cong all happened, thats why.

Communism was and is every bit as nasty as Fascism was, a fact that tends to be overlooked.
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
 Galas wrote:
Hmmm... I suppose that it has to be expected being this an US thread but... why is Communism, the teorical communism writted by Karl Marx, a system that personally even being Marxist I don't think its realizable, more deadly than the Nacionalsocialist movement? Because, you know, dictators are dictators no mater the colour, but one system has the genocidal "Purge" of humans as a core of his values...


Because Mao, Stalin, The GDR (east germany), Nicolae Ceausescu, North Korea, Viet Cong all happened, thats why.

Communism was and is every bit as nasty as Fascism was, a fact that tends to be overlooked.


Because on a theoretical level it's not. The central tenent of Nazism is the extermination of people, the victory of the "Übermensch" over all "Untermenschen". The central tenent of Communism is the redistribution of the means of production. While the later has pretty much always been done through force it doesn't have to be. Exterminating people, however, kinda has to be done through force.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/17 22:43:03


For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
 Galas wrote:
But then I suppose Communist and Nazism dictators pale in comparasion to the body count of Capitalist states throug the years, no? If that its just the measure system we are using.


Tell me the story about how Sam Walton lined up people who didn't want to work at Wal-Mart and shot them in the back of the head for Capitalism.


I think that is an ad absurdum. But this is not a thread to talk about Capitalism vs Communism, It wasn't my intention to bring this issue here. I apologice for that.


 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
 Galas wrote:
Hmmm... I suppose that it has to be expected being this an US thread but... why is Communism, the teorical communism writted by Karl Marx, a system that personally even being Marxist I don't think its realizable, more deadly than the Nacionalsocialist movement? Because, you know, dictators are dictators no mater the colour, but one system has the genocidal "Purge" of humans as a core of his values...


Because Mao, Stalin, The GDR (east germany), Nicolae Ceausescu, North Korea, Viet Cong all happened, thats why.

Communism was and is every bit as nasty as Fascism was, a fact that tends to be overlooked.


Well, as I said before, those systems weren't communist even from the beginning. And yes, we can go the "Not true communist" argument here and you will be right, its always used by actual communist to defend those regiments.

Personally, I think those where despicable people doing despicable things that maybe in that time where how things had ended one way or the other.
So I'm not gonna go down the route to justify those regimens. I think those weren't true Communist regimens, because Communism, as state originally by Karl Marx, isn't realizable, so we can agree that those things where the "Real world" versions of Communist systems.

But I stand my ground saying that the pure Communism and his core values aren't as deadly as the ones of Nationalsocialism.

EDIT: I write "can't" when I want to write "can"

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/04/17 22:47:20


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority





 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

The Nazis had 12 years, Stalin and Mao had much more than that. Give Hitler a little time...


The Great Leap Forward lasted from 1958 to 1962. Pol Pot's executions took place in about two years.

Nice try though.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Pot. Kettle. Black. For instance:


If you can't tell the difference between a snarky joke and an actual point, you can kiss my black iron ass.

Oh, and let me use your argument: "Capitalism had much longer, give communism a little more time".


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Galas wrote:
But I stand my ground saying that the pure Communism and his core values aren't as deadly as the ones of Nationalsocialism.


You mean 'on paper it doesn't look as bad'. Or as we say in the military, "that briefed well". The problem is the execution.

I can write "I want to redistribute funds and ensure that no one is hungry." That 'core value' doesn't seem bad at all. What you're not seeing is that there's got to be something done when people don't want their money redistributed, their taxes raised, and their assets seized. I'm probably going to have to get some guns and put some families face-down on the floor to get this done when that happens, but the plan initially sounds a lot nicer.

At the end of the day, if you lay both ideologies on the table they seem just fine (and you really need to understand fascism to see this). The problem is, they don't always read with the results of the plan.

If you think 'take a bunch of stuff from people and distribute it' isn't deadly, then you've never been around someone who's getting their stuff taken by armed men.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/04/17 22:56:22


Mob Rule is not a rule. 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

Well, thats why I said Nationalsocialism and not fascism. They are different systems. Nationalsocialism has is core values based in genocide, so maybe in the future you can have a pacifist communist system, but you aren't gonna have never a pacifist Nationalsocialist system.

And yeah, I totally understand that the aplication of communist isn't realizable, thats why I said that those states where the "real world" version of a Comunnist sistem, but even then, they look the other way in many Communism core principles, turning those system in Personal Dictatorships.

Maybe in the future a state will voluntary become pure communist without the imposition of it for a external autorithy. I doubt it, but craziest things have happen in history.

EDIT: And Communism isn't about redistributing funds. Thats one of the many misconceptions about it. You can have as many money as you want. Being for example a medic, an artist, etc... it just forbid the personal enrichment based in the apropiation of other persons capital gain. So, it forbits being a capitalist

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/04/17 23:04:10


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot




On moon miranda.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
 Vaktathi wrote:
Lets not forget we had right wing groups mount an armed occupation of a federal facility and got in a standoff and car chase with federal agencies just over a year ago...


Facility was abandoned
Um...are we talking about the same thing? Because the Malheur refuge was very definitely not abandoned. It just didnt have anyone there when everyone showed up because they'd been told not to return until tensions regarding the hammond case cooled off. It was not an abandoned ruin or idle facility.


and the authorities zealously gunned down the guy in charge.
Finnicum was in charge? Not the Bundy's?

And, lets not forget, the dude was armed and involved in a long distance car chase, promised not to be taken alive or go to prison on TV beforehand very clearly more than once, and wrote a book fantasizing about cowboys murdering government officials...

After reviewing the footage, I can tell you- had he been black, the left wing would be burning down cities screaming 'hands up, don't shoot'.
wat?


Oh- I almost forget. The left was advocating every BLM riot.
oh yes...that nebulous "the left" as a whole...really dude? Are you really advocating that? That's a rather absurd generalization, much the same way it would be to make out like the Malheur thing was broadly supported by the nebulous vast "the right". Trying to make it out like one side is angels while the other are all devils is ridiculous.


The last time Nazis went around trashing cities and breaking windows was 1938.
I guess if you mean actual uniformed German nazi's...and you forget everything up to 1945...as for US nazi's, there was the Greensboro massacre, or the Aryan Nation, etc...

For the left, it was a couple of months ago. "Rioting" isn't being short-sighted, it's being a criminal.
yeah...as someone who lives near where some of that went down, at least in Portland, if you want to call the riffraff that hang out under the burnside bridge "the left", then ok, otherwise no, it was local riffraff taking advantage of the situation as an excuse to do stupid things. The stufd they wrecked was primarily all in the ritzy snobby (and very HRC) liberal part of town


I think their beliefs are disgusting, but if we're allowed to harm people for their beliefs I'd just love to lock & load and go after people who espouse ideologies that killed far more than Hitler ever could. Are you sure this is the precedent you want to set?
I am not advocating that. I am however noting that these people are advocating for things that have gotten many killed in the past, and are actively looking to stir up trouble that advances their agenda, and that certain viewpoints expressed in certain times and places will almost inevitably result in violence for a a number of reasons, good or ill, and there are absolutely people who will see such speech as a direct precursor to direct violence against them (because that has also absolutely happened in the past).


 Vaktathi wrote:
Also, again, Damigo, the dude throwing the punch in this case, is a convicted felon who robbed a cab driver at gun point because of his ethnicity.


You say this lie it's supposed to mean something- has this man escaped custody? If you commit a crime are you not legally allowed to defend yourself?
It means something because the dude is a violent convicted felon who was thrown out of the service with a known propensity for engaging in ethnic violence, who advocated for some seriously disturbing causes. That speaks to mindset and motivation.

Sure he's allowed to defend himself, but lets also not make it out like this dude was an innocent butterfly either.

Keep in mind Trayvon Martin was expelled from school for violent behavior, I guess him getting perforated is just what he deserved.
Not gonna touch this red herring with a 40ft pole except to say that Martin was never convicted in a court of law as an adult for a violent felony, which is a world different than school punishments for a minor where one can be suspended or expelled for even self defense (dont know enough about Martin's school record to comment either way).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/17 23:05:42


IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.  
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority





 Galas wrote:
Well, thats why I said Nationalsocialism and not fascism. They are different systems. Nationalsocialism has is core values based in genocide, so maybe in the future you can have a pacifist communist system, but you aren't gonna have never a pacifist Nationalsocialist system.


You're a nice guy, so don't think I'm a dick when I ask you this- but what part of National Socialism states that genocide is required? I'm curious to see where you got this.

 Galas wrote:
Maybe in the future a state will voluntary become pure communist without the imposition of it for a external autorithy. I doubt it, but craziest things have happen in history.


Yeah, we just need people to stop having that whole 'human nature' thing and we'll be well on our way. Communes exist- they just aren't very popular. Wonder why...

Mob Rule is not a rule. 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





 Galas wrote:
But I stand my ground saying that the pure Communism and his core values aren't as deadly as the ones of Nationalsocialism.


I don't care. Words are meaningless, what matters are the actions and lengths you're willing to go to, to achieve your "core values". Using violence in the belief that its for the greater good does not make you any better.
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Maybe in the future a state will voluntary become pure communist without the imposition of it for a external autorithy. I doubt it, but craziest things have happen in history.


Yeah, we just need people to stop having that whole 'human nature' thing and we'll be well on our way. Communes exist- they just aren't very popular. Wonder why...



Yeah, thats why I'm not a communist One of the many things funny about economical Marxism is that many principles are totally against things that today social marxism defend. Like, the free movement of people. Even Karl Marx noted that a country has limited job offer and has the right to control his borders, because the illegal inmigration without limits will only benefit the bourguesy against the interest of the national proletary class.

And I'm gonna go re-read the Mein Kampf to find the citations about Lebensraum and other principles of nazism.


 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
 Galas wrote:
But I stand my ground saying that the pure Communism and his core values aren't as deadly as the ones of Nationalsocialism.


I don't care. Words are meaningless, what matters are the actions and lengths you're willing to go to, to achieve your "core values". Using violence in the belief that its for the greater good does not make you any better.


I totally aggre at a 100%

Don't missread me please. Don't think I'm communist or that I defend the imposition of ideologys througt violence. Or that I defend the typical "communist" icons. But I was all the time talking about the academical definition of communist of Karl Marx vs the academical definition of Nationalsocialism. And why one isn't equal to the other.

PD: Don't let my avatar trick you. Porco Rosso has nothing to do with Communism. I have realized that now

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/04/17 23:14:39


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority





 Vaktathi wrote:


Facility was abandoned
Um...are we talking about the same thing? Because the Malheur refuge was very definitely not abandoned. It just didnt have anyone there when everyone showed up because they'd been told not to return until tensions regarding the hammond case cooled off. It was not an abandoned ruin or idle facility.


Oh, sorry then. It was empty. Either way, no one was hurt but the bad guys.

 Vaktathi wrote:

And, lets not forget, the dude was armed and involved in a long distance car chase, promised not to be taken alive or go to prison on TV beforehand very clearly more than once, and wrote a book fantasizing about cowboys murdering government officials...


And he's dead, and not a single damn was given that day. Am I supposed to defend what he did at some point? I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of the left. Doesn't mean I think the far right isn't full of idiots.

 Vaktathi wrote:

Sure he's allowed to defend himself, but lets also not make it out like this dude was an innocent butterfly either.


So we're clear- I'm allowed to bring up someone's past criminal convictions, if they've served their sentence- to justify my position? I just want to make sure.

Yeah, he broke the law. Bot not when he rocked that chick in the mouth and gave her what she was asking for.

 Vaktathi wrote:

jesus you're going down the rabbit hole of red herrings quickly here. Not gonna touch this one with a 40ft pole except to say that Martin was never convicted in a court of law as an adult for a violent felony, which is a world different than school punishments for a minor.


So we move the goalposts- it MUST be a court of law, right? Just checking.

Sorry, man. A left-wing radical got her face smashed, Antifa got chased out of Berkley's streets howling like scalded apes, and the world will be better once these radicals are purged. If that requires a few racist manlets (that dude's like 5' 3"), so be it.


Mob Rule is not a rule. 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





 Galas wrote:
And I'm gonna go look re-read the Mein Kampf


That sounds like something a Nazi would say!

I kid, I kid.

I totally aggre at a 100%

Don't missread me please. Don't think I'm communist or that I defend the imposition of ideologys througt violence. Or that I defend the typical "communist" icons.


Oh don't worry, I don't regard you as some tub thumping communist, you're actually one of the more moderate and reasonable posters. So far at least. When I say "You", I'm speaking about the proverbial "you", not...you. If you catch my meaning.

I just think "Core Values" are irrelevant. To quote a popular fantasy author...Words are wind.


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/04/17 23:20:44


 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Not as Good as a Minion






Brisbane

Congratulations, another US Politics thread is locked for at least a while if not for good. Don't start another one or discuss the topic in the OT until we give you the go ahead, as per the usual.

I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... 
   
 
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