Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

since the new Codex is more or less coming up for next year, I would like to know what you Guys think would be good changes.

I've been playing with the current Ork Codex for some time now, and there's a lot of things which worch really well in the 4. edition. Shootaboyz are suddenly of use and big Mobs are even more deadly than before (there's nothing like the look on your opponents face when you say the magical words:" eighty attack on your Carnifex").
there are a lot of Units I like very much:
Zzap Guns are great against any non-Monolith Vehicle.
Kommandos are a wonderful way to distract the enemy, and if he doesn't watch out they can really hurt.
Cyborks are really mean. besides the Bossmob, there one of the most powerful Units in play AND they can ride in a Trukk.

I never used Stikkboomers, and am not planning too. any experiences with them.

now for the new stuff.
1.my Guess on the Skarboyz is, that they can chose veteran skills like Space Marines. maybe you have to small the unit down to use infiltrate.
2.I want a Squigoth! and I want it in a real Ork Army! not some weird, better at shooting then fighting, feral Ork list.
3.Weirdboyz. Medusa 5 proved that they are still part of the current Fluff. even for non-feral Orks. but where to use them? there are allready 3 HQ Units and many (2x) cool elite choices.
4.I would love too see some options to make your own clan, like they did with Marines and especially IG.

so what do you think?

since nobody else is posting here, I'll just keep talking about my ideas.
1.Weirdboyz should have mor than one Psychic Power. green electrical vomit is nice, but I think we need something more subtle. like increasing the boyz' speed, Ini or movement.
2.Cavalary, but no Boars. I want riding Squigs, like we saw on that cocept scetches. riding beast are great
3.make Stormboys fast Attack. IMO that would be much better.
4. It's maybe a bit too much, but I think Stormboyz should have some morale bonus. I mean come on, Bikers are fearless, but the Guys who strap Rockets on their back are not a bit crazy?
5.more Options for Lootaz. Orks with Lascannons and heavy Bolters are fine, but I want them to use non-imperial weapons as well. maybe two Orks using a rail rifle.
6.maybe making the other two HQ choices a bit more different, maybe give a Big Mek more BS but less strenght/weapon skill

again, what do you think

Hadn't heard that a new Ork Codex was coming out. I hope nothing drastically changes about the basic structure of the last Codex as I think it was pretty solid.

I guess my suggestions would be:

-Variants/"Doktrines"/"Trayts"/etc.: Much like IG and SM, you'd get to choose to make your army more Speed Freaks, more Feral, etc.
-As above, inclusion of more squads (Weirdboyz, Squiggoths, Trappas, Deff Koptas, etc.)
-Give Kommandos a 6+ armour save (they're Orks, they have tough skin)
-Give Skarboyz access to "veteran abilities" (and produce a sprue of models sized between regular Boz and Nobz; as per the size chart of the last codex)
-Produce new, larger Wartrukks
-Stormboyz = Fast Attack
-Produce a plastic "Ork Conversion Sprue" of various Orky Gubbinz for conversion purposes

yayh, somebody actually answered!
well, it will be the next codex after DA, who come after Elder. Hell I want it now! maybe it will come before Dark Angels... ah hell, who am I kidding? It's GW we're talking here.
the Problem is just. right now. Orks are on of the armys with the most choices, but there's still so much fun stuff you could do with them

"I hope nothing drastically changes about the basic structure of the last Codex as I think it was pretty solid."

I agree that the codex is solid on its own, but in the context of the current rules environment it is ridiculously underpowered.  Right now, Tyranids can do everything that Orks do better and for less points.  I want to see some of the old Orky randomness, or at least some new and interesting features that will set them apart from the other armies out there. 

Somebody here on Dakka (sorry to whoever you are, can't remember your name) suggested a neat rule to make up for Orks bs2.  It went something along the lines of if the number of shots being fired at a unit was double or more the models in that unit, they had to take a pinning test to represent the sheer amount of crazy Ork dakka flying their way.

Hrmm im glad to see its people besides me who mull over codices that they dont even use and find the areas they need tweaking in. Anyways here are my ideas:

1. As stated before reinstitute WierdBoyz, I would make the power either a movement boost for units or completely attack based. No panic or fear checks here, it needs to be blunt and fairly utilitarian. I would also suggest instead of perils of the warp, a chance to go boom with the big blast template, something like what happens to O&G mages in WHFB.
2. Change the choppa rule to giving -1 to AS. I want to see this mainly because it effects all models with an armor value and helps clear up confusion of how IG armor and termi armor can be one and the same somehow from a weapon designed to cut through it.
3. Make the battleWagon open topped. It should be a hug assault boat, with dakka to boot. As it is now its onyl real use is as a gun platform.
4. I'd like to see bikes with a 4+ AS
5. Turn the confusion of gun batteries into heavy weapon teams. As it is now when i fire at them i first roll to hit, then to randomize, then allocate among crew or the guns themselves, the roll for damage. It'd be much easier if crew were the targets here, and guns got removed as crew fell below a certain #, as it is its a bit of a pain right now.

Overall the current codez is fairly nice as is i think. The major problems orc hordes suffer from are inability to deal with high AV vehicles ( Think nigh indestructible monolith, hopefully living metal gets revised when necrons do)an inability to fleet ( which hopefully would come in the form of a unit choice), and a distinct lack of anything particularly unique to them ( Sure waargh and mob up help with leadership and low I, but so many armies arent even affected by morale.) I would hope for something destructive from the codex, liable to lose as many of your guys as theirs, but still effective due to numbers.

Orks have more options then anyone out there....unfortunately they have the least useful choices out there.
Simply allow various armies to be designed with similar success ratios.

Give Orks a shooting alternative. I'm all for Flash Gitz being BS3, A1 for a few extra points.
Tone down the Big Mek in hth to give him BS 3 with a worthwhile gun.

Orks having access to all other armies weaponry is a little iffy to me. I understand they have access to them more for entertainment sake then fluff wise but I am comfortable with them looting imperial weaponry as it tends to be more common then Tau guns.
Orkz don't need a major change...just a minor tweek here and there in points values, Ap or S change on a gun or 2 and presto.

I don' think that the choppaz or or the gun batteries will be changed, since there were more or less rules for this kinda stuff in the 4th edition rulebook.
but I agree that it sounds weird, that I can chopp as easily through Marine Armor as through IG plate armor using the same weapon.
one more thing from the feral Ork list I would love to see: Squig Herds.

new special characters would be nice too. the Stormboyz and Kommandoz are pretty lame.

i would say make a sepcial rule that adds 1" to the Ork Charge.... granted this is solely based on fluff seeing as how Orks are "WarMongers who LOVE to fight"... why the hell not though? think about it... you're an ork, who just emptied your slugga clip on some marines 7" away... you throw the slugga down..... look down at your axe..... scream WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHH!!!!! then charge in wedging that axe between the marine's shoulder blade and the right side of his neck...

Orks, like every other CC army in the game, need a way to get into CC faster. Without it, they're doomed to be as underpowered as they are now.

It's either that or make the individual boyz more resiliant, or give them all the basic options of being able to take Trukks, kind of like a KOS list.

Look at every other CC army in the game, they all have ways of getting their troops into CC quickly or relatively safely.

From just reading the codex, it seems to me like Orks don't want to be a purely combat army, it's just that their shooty elements kinda suck. Instead of making orks able to get into CC faster, what if the shooty units were boosted to make a combined arms approach viable?

Make shootas 24" assault 2 and give shoota mobs more heavy weapon slots, on top of that maybe reduce each choppa boy's cost by a point? Less points equals more choppa boyz equals more targets while 24" range and 5 rokkits makes the shoota boyz behind them a necessary target.

Yo Anung Un Rama: where were those squig rider concepts you're talking about?

somebody posted ork concept scetches some time ago, besides some really (2x) cool stormboyz this was my favorite

I agree with VooDoo... Orks MAIN buying power is their "relentlessness to HtH combat" and their "thirst for blood is so great they'll even fight themselves when they're not in a WAAAGH!" or some other type of fluffy gak, yet when it comes to HtH they do kick ass....... with the exception of loosing 3/4 of your squad before actually getting there...
Not only adding the 1" to their charge... maybe giving them some type of fleet power? once again... they're orks... they're DIEING to get into HtH... gak i'd be running as fast as i possibly can if i was an ork to bust some skulls... or hell... how about this as an Ork Troop Speical Rule:

All Orks classified under the "Troops" section get to move 7" during their movement phase, and can charge up to 7" as well... This can be upped by 2 additional inches by rolling your Power of the WAAGH! test from up to 9" away, you cannot have already used the Power of the WAAGH! test in a previous charge, and if you fail you cannot use it again in future charges... if you pass, you can charge the 9" into CC but roll a D6 for every 4 models in the charge (rounding upwards)... on a D6 roll of 4+ remove one ork as a casualty (they're thirst for combat is so great, they'll trample their own to get into HtH)...

How's THAT sound....... i dunno... maybe a bit strong... but i like it...

What if Power of the Waaagh is rolled for units at the beginning of turns and can then be spent on different effects for the rest of the turn a la markerlight counters or faith points.

Possible effects could be the mob gets leaping (12" charge, 3" kill zone), fleet of foot, strike at I1 but feel no pain, or the regular double initiative thing.

Posted By Beavisv420 on 05/09/2006 2:20 PM

All Orks classified under the "Troops" section get to move 7" during their movement phase, and can charge up to 7" as well...

...But only if they're painted red... 

Posted By Mr. X on 05/09/2006 8:00 PM
What if Power of the Waaagh is rolled for units at the beginning of turns and can then be spent on different effects for the rest of the turn a la markerlight counters or faith points.

Possible effects could be the mob gets leaping (12" charge, 3" kill zone), fleet of foot, strike at I1 but feel no pain, or the regular double initiative thing.

Holy crap, that is the best idea I have heard yet. I quite like the way the SOB faith points system works as it gives the army a little more flexibility. I see no reason why the more Orks there are, the more Power of the Waaagghhh there is building up.

Weird boyz + squads over 20 etc can contribute dice that allow you to;

- reroll missed to hits in shooting or hth,

- reroll power of waagghhh test,

- reroll leadership

- add D6 inches to their charge.

- 6+ feel no pain save...

This doesn't need to include all of these, you may even need to roll a D6 for one of these or assign them different values you need to roll over. Either way it seems a good and justified addition to an ork army.

Definitely need something to get orks into HtH faster, maybe just fleet of foot for 6 inches. But the trick would be that grots can't do fleet of foot, so if you want to use a grot screen, then you can't fleet the unit behind the grots.

I think the grot screen save should be permanent and not by-passable by a Ld test.

"Red" Ork vehicles moving 24 inches should get the glancing rule for skimmers.

Different clans should get different bonuses. Goffs should get Skarboyz as core, for example. Shoota boyz should have a BS of 3 and a WS of 3 (to compensate). They should be upgradeable to Lootas. Stikkbommaz are useless and should be removed.

I like the -1 AS idea for choppas. It makes sense. Big choppas should be -2 AS

Bring back the Shokk Attakk gun and its rule set. That will take care of your Monolith problem
Bring back the Pulsa Rokkit with the ability to make skimmers shaken or stunned for a turn.

Give Storm boyz some kind of save, or let them Waagh and fly into an enemy unit and blow up.

Give kommandos an armor save of some kind and enough grenades to actually take down a vehicle.

Warboss S6, T5 with options to upgrade.

Give Killer kanz and dreads the ability to Waagh and be useful in HtH against other dreads.

-Jmz

Powerklaws on non ICs 15 points like on marine armies.
Change WAAAGH on HQs only but do it based on leadership so small HQs can still WAAGH.

I had this insane idea once to allow my friend who played orks to have a 6+ invulnerable save instead of the 6+ armor they get. The more I think about it, the worse I realize it is.

Combine squads into one troop chioce like the Kroot did in Tau Empire to get stickbommaz, lootaz, and some of the other marginally used units involved.

How about shootas 18" assault 2 so they can shoot and charge.

Don't make the Battlewagon open-topped, just make it considered a Land Raider for purposes of assaulting out of.

Just make the Shokk Attack gun a 36" Heavy 2 EMP grenade (If you hit a vehicle roll - 1-3 nothing, 4-5 glance, 6 Penetrating) and of course you could always throw in something Orky if you roll a 1......

I don't think a full leaping ability is neded, but mobs that make thier power of the Waaaagh! check should be able to charge 12". I fight them regularly with IG and their biggest problem is that last bit of distance where I just back up 6" and nullify their movement. Actually here's my idea for PotW:

On a successful check:

1 Assault 12"

2 Move through cover for the assault only (ie 3D6, take highest times two for distance)

3 Double initiative (like now).

 

Also, while I understand that orks are usually lead by the strongest, having one Nob who kills the few guys in contact with the mob on a charge nullifies the rest of the orks because of the Nob's higher initiative. Maybe have a second nob per so many points or some kind of early pile in move like follows:

On a successful Waagh!, if the Nob kills enough models to remove the boys from coherency the mob makes a free immediate 2" pile in move if that will bring it into base to base with the remaining opponents models and combat continues as if contact was never broken with the next initiative step. Note that this is not always possible if the remaining models are further than 2" away. This is intended to allow the mob to mete out the destruction that it deserves.

This is pretty unelegant but the basic effect I would like to see. This is more a counter to that darn killy nob nerfing the hoarde than anyhing else.

with the new evrybody within 2"inch can attack-rule, that is not really a problem.
and how do you equip your bosses so that there aren't enemys left for the Boyz?

Posted By Anung Un Rama on 05/11/2006 3:42 PM
with the new evrybody within 2"inch can attack-rule, that is not really a problem.
and how do you equip your bosses so that there aren't enemys left for the Boyz?

I play IG like I said, if he has a Nob with a choppa going on initiative 6 and I position three spaced guys in front and everyone else packed in the back line, he can only kill the front three guys on a straight charge per the assault rules. If he had a powerklaw it wouldn't be a problem, but my wimpy IG guys go down like wimps, and I don't mind that all the time if it saves the rest of the squad (they will all back, oh yes, and will regroup closer to home). Maybe this isn't such a deal with other armies.

One thing I'd really like is for the Warboss to be toughness 5. Its a small change but it does mean that he is much less vulnerable to instant death, to compensate maybe remove the cyborg body wargear item. An item that makes him immune to instant death would also work, and it does seem to be popular with GW at the moment, but I personally think T5 is more characterful.

Nobs squads need a points break (like most T4 W2 squads in the game), I think maybe make them about 15points each. Also their mega armour needs a points break. Currently a mega-armoured nob costs 10points more than a terminator and is IMHO not as good (they have a few advantages and many disadvantages). I think mega-armour should be about 20/30 and power claws should be 15/25 (using the standard format of Nob/IC).

I'd also like to see something to stop the small specialist squads (tankbustas and burna boyz primarily) from getting shot up as soon as they appear. Currently if I use them I pretty much have to just let them get shot up and hope that the nob and special weapons survive long enough to mob up with a larger squad for protection.

For weirdboyz rather than them being an IC what I'd like to see is an elites choice consisting of a group of minderz dragging along a few weirdboyz. The psychic powers would be exclusively weapons and the weirdboyz would get bonuses to their test based on the number of orks nearby.

Supposed to be an edit

I think we all know that the new Ork Codex will not be changed all that much. It is an update, they will make a few necessary changes to make the army slightly more viable but not so tough that marines can't beat them. I think a few things could be done to make the army better. All boyz cost 8 points and Shootas become 18" Assault 2 or stay the same weapon type but make it ap 5 because of the large slugs that are used (or stay the same I couldn't care I assault with everything anyway). All of the Chapter Approved Clans to be in the Codex. I liked some of the suggestions about the Power of the Waugghhh! Killa Kans should become an Elite choice (or there should be a clan that takes them as Elite) it would make for a more mechy army. 3 Dreads, 9 Killa Kans and a hundred boyz behind a wall. Smoke upgrade for vehicles or vehicles gain the cover save granting ability that bikes do.

I agree with the point that orks need to be faster.

I would pull trukk boyz, and give trukkz as transport options to all ork infantry.

Move stormboyz over to fast attack.

Change the mob up rule. Add to the rule that orks will mob up towards the closest ork unit engaged in close combat. If no units are in close combat, the orks will mob up as normal.

All they need to make me happy is a simple "feel no pain" rule added to all orks. Simple.

Hell. Keep the same exact we have now, add the FnP rule and voila. I'm happy.

For suppossedly the "tough" and "nasty" creatures described in all the fiction, fluff and history, a bolter kills them dead too easily.

Now, I'll be happier with more changes obviously....

I agree with the points on simplifying/cleaning up the various boyz listings, T5 for bosses, BS3 and A1 for Flash Gitz, the return of Weirdboyz, and Nobz needing a points break and some fixing. Heck, I'd like to see Squiggoths brought into the main list in some fashion.

However, I completely disagree that Orks should be made faster. Although they rush into combat, they're not supposed to be *fast*. I think everyone agrees Orks hit plenty hard enough in combat...the problem is that they lose too many bodies along the way. Ergo, either allow them more bodies or give them some added protection. Even a 1 pt. drop might allow footsloggas to put some really large numbers of boyz on the table. And either making grot saves permanent or giving greater access to KFFs would also make a difference.

I think incremental changes are what's needed. Something as drastic as fleet or 12" charges would put Orks way over the top quickly.