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Comming back from a major hiatus from all things GW I decided to start two new armies.  One for WFB and one for 40k.  Having decided on Wood Elves for WFB I started kicking around what to start for 40k. 

Since my Eldar still apparently have thier old codex and everyone else and thier brother are doing the Tau, I thought I would go for an army I always wanted to play but never got around to since the amount of conversion work would be staggering for someone with my minimal conversions skills.

Harking back to the days of the mighty Arch-Magos and his Lustwing army I decided to go for one myself.  However the only experience I have with it is from thier last codex not the newest one.  Just from glossing over the new codex I got today it seems it's still a strong army. 

However I have some questions. I was a bit confused by the Chosen and exactly how they fit into the army.  Planning a 1500 pt army I could get a maximum of 20 Chosen.  Could I break these guys up into as many squads as I want and they still count at 1 elites choice?  Is this still a viable army under the 4th edition rules? 

If anyone can help me in this reguard I would appreciate it as I've always wanted to do an army of this type and this seems as good an opportunity as any to go for it.

The limit of chosen is per army, so 20 chosen in the whole army. Which gives you 18 Terminators in 1500 if you stick to the sacred numbers.

On the unit thing - you can get 3 inot the army:

1 unit as a retinue for the Lord
1 unit as a retinue for a Lieutenant
1 Unit as Elites.

Of course, total numbers are limited by force size etc.

if you read the unit entry, the little bit above the "character" section, it explains how many actualy UNITS you can have.

I am also interested in a Lustwing - I shall certainly be watching this carefully...

The classic 1500 Lustwing build is indeed a Lord with Chosen retinue, a Lt with retinue, the single Elite squad you're allowed, and three squads of daemons. The nice thing about doing this at 1500pts is that you can get 6 x 6 model squads without having to go too crazy with wargear. Obviously the characters and Chosen squads have to be pricey, but if you're careful with your choice of upgrades they can be pretty solid. You do need to make sure that each unit is capable of filling multiple roles and killing as many different types of enemy units as possible, as you obviously have a limited number of units.

It's a fun army which kind of predates the concept of the drop pod army, in that the preferred way to fight is to Deep Strike (hoping the mission allows it).

Here's a sample list:

Lord w/Mark of Slaanesh, Termie armor, Spiky, Dread Axe (or Dark Blade), Power Weapon, Daemonic Strength, Mutation, Combat Drugs= 190
with retinue of 5 Chosen Terminators with MoS, 2 Chainfists, 2 Combi Meltas = 241

Lt. w/Mark of Slaanesh, Sorcerer, Gift of Chaos, Lightning Claws, Termie armor, Daemonic Strength, Mutation = 155
with retinue of 5 Chosen Terminators with MoS, 2 Chainfists, 2 Combi Meltas = 241

6 Chosen Terminators with MoS, Tankhunter, 1 Lightning Claw, 2 Chainfists, 2 Reaper Autocannons= 325

6 Daemonettes = 90

6 Daemonettes = 90

6 Mounted Daemonettes= 168

Thanks for the info.  The light of understanding has illuminated me in the required manner.  Now my scribes of all things infernal and arcane will be put to work crafting a list worthy of the Lord of Pleasure.

Are any of the other chaos terminator wings viable in the fourth edition?

 

Mannahnin:

Interesting list!

Is the 1500 point limit limiting you from taking sonic weapons (including blastmasters instead of reapers) on at least some of the units?

Would you include them at 1850?

Thanks!

Leif- good question. Fourth edition has definitely made life harder for Deathwing and all similar armies due to the restriction of having to assault the same unit you shoot at. In 3rd ed these are=nies , which often have both good firepower and nasty assault capabilities, relied on the ability to hurt multiple targets in the same turn to make up for their relatively low number of units.

Nurgle Terminators are very tough. I have seen a single squad used to very good effect in 1700-2000pt games, with Tankhunters and Autocannons to give them nasty anti-vehicle firepower in addition to their great HtH ability. One nice advantage to their sacred number is that you can actually take two autocannons in each squad. Their bigger disadvantage is that Plaguebearers just aren?t very effective. Still, it might be a fun list, and the Plague termies would definitely be more durable and nastier than the Noisy termies. With the cost of the larger squads this army would probably fit better into a larger point value, unless you really shave those characters for points.

Thousand Sons termies are the best type of T-Sons. That said, I don?t think they can stand as an army by themselves. Obviously nine squads of nine models doesn?t work so well unless you?re playing a crazy points value. Their daemons aren?t too hot either.

Khorne as the same issue with model/squad count and price. That said, if you don?t bother trying to take eight squads you could probably make a nasty army with termies and bloodletters. They wouldn?t have the ranged anti-vehicle capabilities of Lustwing or Plaguewing, though, and their tendency to be led around the tabkle could be a major liability, but if you?re a real fanatic you could give it a try.

Alpharius-

This is just a basic one I knocked out from memory of Janthkin and AMA?s lists and numerous battle reports, combined with the reaper/tankhunter combo another friend of mine has had a lot of success with in local leagues and tournaments. I?ve never done Lustwing myself, but have used minimal sonic weapons in my own Slaanesh-flavored armies, just because mine were always about HtH, not shooting.

With a Lustwing, the Sonic Blasters don?t cost you HtH attacks, so they are more worthwhile. They?re also more expensive, however. My natural inclination in building a list is maximum lethality for minimum cost. That said, Sonic Blasters might be worthwhile if you wanted to use them. Blastmasters I think are less worth it, because you?re getting one shot at effective S9 against vehicles, as opposed to two S8 twin-linked with a Reaper. The choice seems obvious. You?re already fielding a tiny army with limited ranged attacks. Not much sense in taking the less effective options.

Actually a Khorne Termie list (bloodwing?) would have the same ranged weapon options as the Nurgle version. The restriction on Khorne models' ranged weaponry is only for models in power armor, so terminators should still be able to get autocannons and combiweapons. Of course, they'll go crazy on a 1 or 2 and not be able to shoot, so there is that limitation.

"Thousand Sons termies are the best type of T-Sons. That said, I don?t think they can stand as an army by themselves. Obviously nine squads of nine models doesn?t work so well unless you?re playing a crazy points value. Their daemons aren?t too hot either."

I've done pretty well with my Dustwing. 3 squads of 9 termies (with loaded sorcerers, naturally), kai gun lord, 3 6-strong flamer units, and a unit of screamers is about my 1850 list. Yes, it violates the sacred number element of ----wings, but otherwise is pretty fun and surprisingly decent. Those big 1k Son termi squads can be tough nuts to crack, and spiky too, with 5 chainfist attacks without the charge ... not to mention the 16 power weapon attacks!

- Boss Salvage

Ok here is the list I cooked up.  I'm going at this knowing I have a lot of conversion work and money to spend on bits to put this list together.  But I'm looking for something more unique than you normally see.  Some weapon choices I made for flavor reasons and not entirely going for the 100% dead competive list.

Lord w/MoS, term armor, mutation, strength, combat drugs, doom siren, spikes, lash of torment - 190pts

Lt w/MoS, term armor, sonic blaster, strength, power weapon - 110pts

 x5 Chosen Lords retinue w/MoS, x1 blastmaster, x4 sonicblasters, x2 chainfist, Slannesh Icon - 249pts

x5 Chosen Lt. retinue w/MoS, x1 blastmaster, x4 sonicblasters, x2 chainfist, Slannesh Icon - 249pts

x6 Chosen w/MoS, x2 blastmasters, x4 sonic blasters, x2 chainfist, Slannesh Icon - 310pts

x3 Obliterators - 210pts

x6 Daemonettes - 90pts

x6 Daemonettes - 90pts

Total - 1498pts

Whats up with Dakka?  Except for one exception everytime I post up an army list for input I get absolutly no response.

Well I'll assume that this is a pretty tight list as there has been no comment for 2 days.  All that remains is to break out the bitz catalog, fire up the trusty dremmel and buy a case of green stuff.

Hi Starko,

I've noticed as well that Dakka has been slow on the responses lately. Then I figured that I could do something about it as well. So hereby: a response!

I've been following the thread and the lists for a few days now. What I've noticed in the list is the fact that for a Deamonbomb it's very unstable. For an all terminators list it's workable, but I don't know if a Chaos Term list has the same validity as it's Imperial counterpart. The -wings IMHO will never be the most powerfull Chaos lists immaginable - fun though they can be.

Your last list though is rather nasty in the shooting departement for 1500 points because of the DS advantage of shooting first. 33 models and comming in peacemeal in deep strike however, make for a very weak combination. My thoughts are:

- Cheap characters. You have an army of powerweapon and powerfist dudes, do you realy need a 190 points Lord? He can be brought down to 120.

- Also remove one Chainfist from each squad, you have a reasonable amount of AT power already.

- For the saved points you could get a third squad of Daemonettes. For the loss of some upgrades with minor relevance you gain six rending models, and upgrade to a 39 modelcount list which in my book is a lot more valid in 1500.

 If you manage to tweak the list beyond my suggestions I'd advise to give the Lord and the Lieut both Teleport homers. When one of these land in a good spot you can maybe assure a very strong flank by keeping the Termies close. (BTW Mounted Daemonettes are awesome - although I don't see many possibilities for saving the ammount of points needed to get a squad). 

How will you play this list? Will you deepstrike or walk. Think about this because both have merits and weeknesses. Remember you have a list that will be outnumbered most of the time and could very easily be facing 1500 point lists that have enough firepower of meleepower to deal with 21 Terminators - I know mine does. Because of the fact that you are quite slow (after an initial DS) a mobile enemy might get to pick the list appart one squad at the time - keep your squads close for mutual support.

Hope my suggestions are somewhat usefull, good luck with the list, let us know how you fare with it.

Cilithan out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the input Cilithan thats exactly what I was looking for.  That was one of my main concerns about the list is the low model count.  I was trying to figure how to get another squad of deamonettes in there.  I think I will do some shaving on the lord and lt.

In order to try to minimize the ablity of mobile enemy to stay out of charge range I tried to give some longer range firepower yet remain within the theme of the army.  The main reason I included the obliterators.

I to see the major weakness of this army if being forced to go it on foot and a quick enemy could choose where and when to engage.  I really don't know how I could defend against this other than trying to create the appearance of a weakness and getting my opponet to commit to something that can be counter-attacked.

I don't know if you really need the Obliterators. First of all, if you take them, you're no longer taking an all Emperor's Children army (they can't have the MoS), so no more free Aspiring Champions. Secondly, all the models in your army will more or less have good tankbusting - between blastmasters, chainfists, and rending claws, you really only need to worry about long-range threats, which shouldn't happen too often if you're teleporting. Also, to save points and get those mounted daemonettes, you might consider bumping the Lord down to a second lietenant, perhaps make one of them a sorcerer if you really want.

Ohh good catch tzeentchling.  Thanks for that.  Looks like I can sqeeze in another daemonette squad and a mounted daemeonette with the new list I'm working up.

By the way I need some clarification when it comes to the steeds of slannesh.  Where does it say that I can even have them for the daemonettes in the army book?  I see I can pick daemonic steeds for units under the armory but it says the unit/individual must have access to the army.  I don't see where in the troops descrption of daemonettes where they have access to the armory

Can anyone clarify this?

Deamonettes on steeds, I think are on the GW site. They are an extremely effective unit, so I would highly recommend you take them. Also, like said before, keep the force pure, by dropping the Obliterators, you can get free AC's in each squad as well have points left over. There is no reason why every Terminator in your force shouldn't have sonic weapons. I would also double up on the Blastmasters in each squad.

Tactically, don't look at the force as a assault army, if you need to deepstrike behind terrian and cut down on the firepower you will receive, while trying to take out something that you can. The good thing about the Deamons in this army is that you have a very good chance of getting into assault when they show up. (Turn 3 or so). Missions without Deepstrike can get you in a bind, but that is a risk you take in an army like this.

Modeling, you can get Assault Terminators and replace the hands on the Thunder hammer/storm shield arms and make them Chaosy enough. 18 Terminators = 200 dollars + bits and Deamonettes. Have fun!

Yes I am familar with the models.  I am not quite sure where it says in the codex where you can equip a squad of daemonettes with steeds of slannesh.  That part of the armory is only available to independant characters and/or units with a MoS.  Now I would assume that a unit of daemonettes pretty much have the MoS intrinsicly but it is not stated so in their list entry.  To furthur my confusion the GW site list them as a fast attack but they are for sure not under fast attack.

Not only that but I'm confused by Mannahnin's list where he includes 6 daemonettes on steeds of slannesh for 168pts.  Where does he get this point value?  According to the codex a squad of 6 daemonettes would be 90pts and if you are allowed to put them on steeds at 25pts each that would be another 150pts for a total of 210pts for an entire unit of 6.

Hi Starko,

http://uk.games-workshop.com/chaosspacemarines/mounted-daemonettes/1/

I hope this link works. What it boils down to is that Mounted Daemonettes are Chapter Approved (from a white dwarf back in 3rd edition). They are so accepted however that they are allowed ev'ry tournie I think.

The quality of the Mounted Babes of Slaanesh is in the fact that they are practically guaranteed a charge the turn the come in. With 4 rending attacks each a squad of six statistically has a good chance of taking down Daemon Princes, Carnies, Wraithlords, most vehicles etc. and put a dent in Elite squads as enemy Terminators. The downside is they are still T3, so give them some protection.

As to the previous remarks: Yes, foregoing the Obliterators in favor of a squad of Mounted Daemonettes is a good idea (gives the list a modelcount of 42). Also this leaves some points for the Termies. As I said give each Termie squad a teleport homer and avoid some nasty scattering. Also pack in a Daemonweapon if you like (maybe even a Kai Gun for some additional mobile firepower - BS 5 on a Lord/Lieutenant).  

Keep us posted as to the progres with your list.

Cilithan out.

Thanks a lot Cilithan.  This clears it up for me.  I was scouring the Chaos Codex looking and wondering if I had overlooked something.  I even looked up the errata/faq info on the GW website looking for something.

Its refreshing to see that GW still has rules buried in out of the way and out of print locations.

I will indeed let you guys know how this army fares.  I started looking at the bits I must buy to put it together the way I want.  The only thing I can say definatly at this point is it's going to be awhile before this army hits the table the way I want it to.