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Made in de
Prescient Cryptek of Eternity






Germany

Im pretty sure DTTFE will be changed to unmodified 6s with the new codex.
   
Made in fr
Lesser Daemon of Chaos






macluvin wrote:
warpedpig wrote:
Any suggestions on a noise marines army list with a bunch of keepers of secrets? Want to have a very thematic looking 2k list

There’s 2 ways to go with this. Put points aside for summoning (unreliable, except word bearers dark pact strategem may be able to help with that). Alternatively, dump cp into a second daemon detachment (probably that command detachment of HQ’s). This way you can take emperor’s children. I think they still get noise bois as troops. And possibly sonic dreads? The rule of cool though may override all the competitiveness you are losing in either case and I applaud you for that. On the flip side if you get a 20 man blob of tooled up noise marines to endless cacophany and stack veterans of the long war on top you should be able to delete a lot of what you come up against. Toss a lord or prescience sorcerer and you e got a fearsome Death Star. Note how I didn’t talk about the keepers. Because all I know is they are psykers and can probably punch things really well.


Don't forget Excruciating Frequencies for +1str +1d on sonic weapons !

-"For the Ruinous Powers!" 
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader






Eldenfirefly wrote:
I am kinda excited to try out the new death to the false emperor. Abbadon just got a pretty decent buff with this. All CSM infantry around him gets to trigger death to the false emperor on 5s now. That's ... pretty scary. And that's against everything now, not just imperium!

Berserkers charging into combat with Abbadon's buff... absolutely sick.

Slanaash terminators with icon of excess fighting around Abaddon ... now essentially have 150% of their total attack.


Abaddon and Icon of Excess do not interact at all. Icon or Abaddon + Prescience though, that will get you 4+ double hits.

I'm on a podcast about (video) game design:
https://anchor.fm/makethatgame
And I also stream tabletop painting/playing Mon&Thurs 8PM EST
https://twitch.tv/tableitgaming 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





I'm happy for my 10 man terminator brick for iw, deepstrike and double tap shooting with Mark of slannesh then charge in with exploding sixes and everyone has a power claw for reroll wounds!
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





Rihgu wrote:
Eldenfirefly wrote:
I am kinda excited to try out the new death to the false emperor. Abbadon just got a pretty decent buff with this. All CSM infantry around him gets to trigger death to the false emperor on 5s now. That's ... pretty scary. And that's against everything now, not just imperium!

Berserkers charging into combat with Abbadon's buff... absolutely sick.

Slanaash terminators with icon of excess fighting around Abaddon ... now essentially have 150% of their total attack.


Abaddon and Icon of Excess do not interact at all. Icon or Abaddon + Prescience though, that will get you 4+ double hits.


Hmm, ok. Well, not hard to have a sorceror with prescience in a black legion army. And we save the 10 points then. I feel that with the emphasis on terrain set up these days. Putting important infantry units like berserkers into Rhinos are crucial, and they protect them quite well, until they can disembark and charge. The Rhino doesn't care about hiding behind obscuring terrain because it literally doesn't have any important guns it wants to shoot. And disembarking from transports like a Rhino increases the move and hence threat range of the zerker squad in it.

Actually, I know tons of people, including myself who used to always forget that we had a death to the false emperor rule. Now it is super important that we don't forget that we have this rule.
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

Eldenfirefly wrote:
 techsoldaten wrote:
Maybe I should be more precise.

DttFE will not be as good. Lists built around this will suffer. Because CORE.

Chaos got great rules in Traitor's Hate at the end of 7th edition. Lasted 6 months, then we got 8th.

Not that 8th was bad for CSM, but we seem to get the good rules before they pull out the rugs.


I don't get it. Most infantry are core if you look at the space marines book. Sterngard veterans are core in SM, so why would Chosen not be core? Devastators are Core , so Havocs should be Core too. Vanguard Veterans are Core as well. Assault jumppack squads are Core, so our raptors will be Core too. And even in the Tsons and DG codex, terminators and cult marines are Core. So, our elite infantry will probably all get Core.

Why does CORE come into the discussion when interacting with DttFE? I really don't understand. Most of the units we want in melee will likely have Core.


Yes, Space Marines have Core on most of their infantry. While that may be true, not sure it's safe to assume Chaos will get the same treatment.

Probably best to call this a bad feeling, partially based on what's happened to CSM historically - things like ATSKNF mechanics and making books obsolete shortly after release. But also having to do with 9th edition itself.

Changes to Detachments in general and the Supreme Command Detachment in particular made it harder to load up on HQs, eliminating some of the power builds we saw in 8th. This new direction in game design penalizes CSM as a mid-range, melee faction that relies on cheap troops and powerful characters to get work done. Instead, we see elite units like Possessed Bombs, Obliterators and Daemon Engines becoming the focus of armies.

I don't know if GW wants to re-emphasize the role of infantry in CSM lists. I could see limits on who gets Core as a way to achieve this. Let's take it for granted CSM get Core, that leaves the following:

- Possessed
- Cult Troops
- Chosen
- Cultists

To be clear, I have no reason to suspect these units would not get this mechanic other than it would be something GW could screw up, intentionally or unintentionally. But maybe they decide this is only for troops and not elites, or maybe they decide having a mark makes them ineligible for Core. Or maybe not, and everyone does get it.

I just wouldn't count on armies that rely too heavily on DttFE to be as good once the Codex comes out.

   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




The dark hollows of Kentucky

Based on the Death Guard and Thousand Sons codexes, we can expect Cultists to NOT be CORE, or have obsec, but for all Astartes based non-character units to be CORE: Possessed, Bikers, Chosen, Terminators, Raptors, and Warp Talons. Cult Marines could be a question mark, as making them not core for CSM, but CORE in their respective Legions could be a way to separate them. But if they go the way of 3.5 and Traitor Legions, that might only matter for Black Legion, because in both of those books, they were the only Legion that could take Cult Marines outside of their own Legions.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

I don't see why, other than 1KSons Marines, the other Cult Troops wouldn't be core.

Not all Berzerkers/Noise Marines/Plague Marines are World Eaters/Emperor's Children/Death Guard, after all.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I don't see why, other than 1KSons Marines, the other Cult Troops wouldn't be core.

Not all Berzerkers/Noise Marines/Plague Marines are World Eaters/Emperor's Children/Death Guard, after all.


Yes.

And yet, my concern remains, that GW would see it differently.

The CSM Misery Index is a running list I've been keeping, spelling out rules / mechanics where GW could miss the mark in the new Codex. Suppose it's time to share so others can contribute.

- Infernal Jealousy Equivalent: DG have a rule called Infernal Jealousy. Limits you to 1 "Lord" per detachment or 1 Daemon Prince per detachment. Other than that, the only HQ you can take is Sorcerers. Could see them making every HQ a Lord but for Sorcerers.

- Veteran Skills: DG have the Deadly Pathogens equivalent, special abilities for specific units. Could see it be a set of options at the level of -1 AP for Bolters, +1 to leadership rolls, +2" to flamers on charging units, advance and shoot with rapid fire weapons, Warpflame Gargoyles, etc.

- What's In the Box: Havocs come with 1 Chaincannon. Could see GW limiting units (like Havocs) to 1 of each heavy weapon, which would mean a lot of people are remodelling.

- Marks: The only real use for Marks right now is access to Stratagems. Could see them keeping this but making it more strict (for example: Black Legion Infantry with Mark of Nurgle.)

- Predators / Land Raiders / Vindicators: These vehicles are severely overcosted compared to Imperial / Ork options. Everything else is more shooty for about the same price. Either the statline needs to go up or the price needs to go down. Could see the inverse occurring.

- Dumb Secondaries: given many secondaries can be triggered by just standing somewhere, could see CSM getting a lot of "rituals" that involve separating your forces all over the board. Could see GW using this as a way to keep CSM weak relative to Imperials.

- Core Restrictions: outside Characters, only CSMs and Chosen get Core. Could see GW doing this just to nerf HQs, which were overpowered in 8th.

- Daemon Engines: have not understood, relative to units in other armies, how Daemon Engines are better in this edition. Could see GW giving them special rules that make it too expensive to field more than a couple in a list.

- Deep Strike Stratagems: seems like all armies are getting Stratagems that allow units to deep strike for CP. Could see CSM becoming dependent on this mechanic.

- Legion Traits: it was pretty clear in 8th that Alpha Legion had the best Legion trait. Could see GW doing a cut and paste for most armies.






   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

I know this has come up before, but can someone remind me:

Rubrics are specifically 1KSons, right? There are no Rubrics from other non-aligned Legions*? There are potentially Tzeentch-aligned Chaos Marines out there that aren't Rubrics because the whole Rubric thing was something that happened to the Thousand Sons, correct?


*I am aware that Black Legion takes in forces from other Legions, but Rubrics in the Black Legion would have originated from the Thousand Sons, yes?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/16 03:43:04


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in de
Prescient Cryptek of Eternity






Germany

Rubrics are in the CSM codex. Any legion who doesnt worship a specific god which isnt tzeentch can use them.
   
Made in gb
Hungry Ork Hunta Lying in Wait





 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I know this has come up before, but can someone remind me:

Rubrics are specifically 1KSons, right? There are no Rubrics from other non-aligned Legions*? There are potentially Tzeentch-aligned Chaos Marines out there that aren't Rubrics because the whole Rubric thing was something that happened to the Thousand Sons, correct?


*I am aware that Black Legion takes in forces from other Legions, but Rubrics in the Black Legion would have originated from the Thousand Sons, yes?


The rituals to turn marines into Ruberics or "close enough" versions are out there, and much like the Butcher Nail surgeons, the black legion has brought most of the sorcerers capable of this into their fold.

Hell I could also see Tzeentch dusting some marines as a 'blessing'. Aka they were promised untold arcane power, Tzeentch gave them the power but also turned them into animated armour so they're unable to use their new found gifts. Just as planned.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/16 08:38:18


 
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





Wow... I just had a game where I finally dusted off my CSM and brought them out after well over a year. I was going to try out our new "death to the false emperor". All I can say is ... "wow! Its good!" lol

I brought a pure black legion list. Not soup, not mixed legion. Just pure black legion. Starting with 13 CP because of Abaddon was the first refreshing difference.

Shout out to my opponent as well. Although it was a casual game, he is a great player, and loves to bring pretty good lists. Yet, he doesn't sweat the small things and games with him always end up really enjoyable. I have learnt a lot from him.

So, here's my list:

Abaddon (warlord).
Terminator Sorceror (delightful agonies + warptime) with the relic angelsbane.

30 cultists
2 squads of 10 cultists

2 squads of 5 Berzerkers in a Rhino (champ w lightning claw)
2 squads of 5 Berzerkers in a Rhino (champ w lightning claw)
10 terminators, all with lightning claw and combi bolters.

2 squads of 5 raptors, champ w lightning claw

1 Khorne Lord of Skulls (1cp).

He brought Necrons. I can't remember the whole list. But it had roughly 1 squad of 5 immortals, 3 squads of 5 scarabs, 3 squads of 6 Wraiths, Nightbringer and Void Dragon, a Catacomb Command Barge Lord, Szeras and a unit of Cryptothralls. It looks very troop lite (only 1 troop), until you realise he took the custom dynasty that gives him army wide pregame move plus everything except the 2 C'tans are obsec.

Anyway, I won't post the full battle report here. I will just summarise the best parts for me. This was when his first 6 man wraith unit charged into my Terminator squad, whiffed and killed only 1 terminator, and in retaliation, my terminator squad obliterated that entire wraith squad in one combat phase!

And then next turn, the same terminator squad charged into a second wraith squad ... and obliterated it as well... lol.

Let me just say... Black legion terminators with lightning claw, and backed by Abbadon are... obscene. They are rerolling all hits, so I can reroll all my 1,2,3,4s to fish for 5,6s which are exploding hits. And then I vets for 1CP so that now they are +1 to wound plus they reroll all failed wounds because lightning claws...

I didn't even need to use the Mercilous Fighters strategem to add 1 more attack because it was already overkill!

I love our new Death to the False Emperor!
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I know this has come up before, but can someone remind me:

Rubrics are specifically 1KSons, right? There are no Rubrics from other non-aligned Legions*? There are potentially Tzeentch-aligned Chaos Marines out there that aren't Rubrics because the whole Rubric thing was something that happened to the Thousand Sons, correct?


*I am aware that Black Legion takes in forces from other Legions, but Rubrics in the Black Legion would have originated from the Thousand Sons, yes?

If a non-Thousand Sons army has Rubric Marines it's because they acquired a Thousand Sons sorcerer somehow (like Iskandar Khayon in the Black Legion). The Scourged are another Tzeentch CSM cult that aren't known for having dusty boys at all, they're all perfectly normal marines who have been driven to insanity by having every lie ever spoken by humanity drilled into their brains. It'd be weird to run any Rubrics in a Scourged list.
   
Made in us
Warp-Screaming Noise Marine




Without access to combat doctrines and other rules that make loyalist power armor work, is the second wound on chaos space marines going to gimp us harder because of the increased point cost for an increasingly more useless profile? I talk of course about the bolter. And won’t it make us more fragile points wise to the meta of d2 weapons?

Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. -Kurt Vonnegut 
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




The dark hollows of Kentucky

macluvin wrote:
Without access to combat doctrines and other rules that make loyalist power armor work, is the second wound on chaos space marines going to gimp us harder because of the increased point cost for an increasingly more useless profile? I talk of course about the bolter. And won’t it make us more fragile points wise to the meta of d2 weapons?

I'm sure we'll get something to make our stuff "work". Death Guard got Contagions, 1ksons got extra AP. But it shouldn't be Doctrines. Doctrines are for loyalists. CSM have Marks and Veteran Skills. Just wait for the codex before you start worrying.
   
Made in us
Warp-Screaming Noise Marine




 Gadzilla666 wrote:
macluvin wrote:
Without access to combat doctrines and other rules that make loyalist power armor work, is the second wound on chaos space marines going to gimp us harder because of the increased point cost for an increasingly more useless profile? I talk of course about the bolter. And won’t it make us more fragile points wise to the meta of d2 weapons?

I'm sure we'll get something to make our stuff "work". Death Guard got Contagions, 1ksons got extra AP. But it shouldn't be Doctrines. Doctrines are for loyalists. CSM have Marks and Veteran Skills. Just wait for the codex before you start worrying.

We haven’t had veteran skills in decades... and marks of chaos haven’t done anything besides unlock stratagems, which have made chaos known as a faction heavily reliant on CP to win. I never was a fan of having a strategem that allows you to double a shooting units shooting power but it was a necessity... Granted, attaching special rules to marks of chaos has the potential to balance out the lack of doctrines and their vastly superior traits. Which based on previous design, having comparably suboptimal traits is likely to carry over.

Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. -Kurt Vonnegut 
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




The dark hollows of Kentucky

macluvin wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
macluvin wrote:
Without access to combat doctrines and other rules that make loyalist power armor work, is the second wound on chaos space marines going to gimp us harder because of the increased point cost for an increasingly more useless profile? I talk of course about the bolter. And won’t it make us more fragile points wise to the meta of d2 weapons?

I'm sure we'll get something to make our stuff "work". Death Guard got Contagions, 1ksons got extra AP. But it shouldn't be Doctrines. Doctrines are for loyalists. CSM have Marks and Veteran Skills. Just wait for the codex before you start worrying.

We haven’t had veteran skills in decades... and marks of chaos haven’t done anything besides unlock stratagems, which have made chaos known as a faction heavily reliant on CP to win. I never was a fan of having a strategem that allows you to double a shooting units shooting power but it was a necessity... Granted, attaching special rules to marks of chaos has the potential to balance out the lack of doctrines and their vastly superior traits. Which based on previous design, having comparably suboptimal traits is likely to carry over.

Fourteen years isn't "decades". And Legion Command and Deadly Pathogens both look a lot like an amalgam of Veteran Skills and Daemonic Gifts to me. We'll probably get our own version of those, doesn't matter what they call them, as long as it gives us back some customization and a way to improve our units outside of Marks. I'll take that instead of Doctrines any day. Doctrines are for loyalists, not Chaos Space Marines. CSM need their own thing.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Doctrines are for loyalists, not Chaos Space Marines. CSM need their own thing.
"Hateful Directives".

They do the same, but sound more angry.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





Good to hear that people are seeing some joy with the new rules! I'm going to the Leicester GT on Saturday and an taking my iron warriors with this list..


++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [106 PL, -2CP, 2,000pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Detachment Command Cost

Legion: Iron Warriors

+ HQ [22 PL, 405pts] +

Chaos Lord [6 PL, 90pts]: 5. Siege Master, Astartes chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw [5pts], No Chaos Mark, Plasma pistol [5pts], Warlord

Lord Discordant on Helstalker [10 PL, 200pts]: Baleflamer [5pts], Bolt pistol, Fleshmetal Exoskeleton, Frag & Krak grenades, Impaler chainglaive, Mark of Khorne, Mechatendrils
. Helstalker: Bladed limbs and tail, Techno-virus injector

Sorcerer [6 PL, 115pts]: Bolt pistol, Force sword, Frag & Krak grenades, Jump pack [1 PL, 25pts], Mark of Tzeentch, Prescience, Smite, Weaver of Fates

+ Troops [12 PL, 210pts] +

Chaos Space Marines [4 PL, 70pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Aspiring Champion [14pts]: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Frag & Krak grenades
. 4x Marine w/ boltgun [56pts]: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Boltgun, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

Chaos Space Marines [4 PL, 70pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion [14pts]: Astartes chainsword, Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades
. 4x Marine w/ chainsword [56pts]: 4x Astartes chainsword, 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

Chaos Space Marines [4 PL, 70pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion [14pts]: Astartes chainsword, Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Frag & Krak grenades
. 4x Marine w/ boltgun [56pts]: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Boltgun, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

+ Elites [48 PL, -2CP, 955pts] +

Chaos Leviathan Dreadnought [13 PL, -1CP, 245pts]: 3x Hellforged hunter-killer missile [15pts], Leviathan siege claw and meltagun, Mark of Slaanesh, Storm cannon [10pts]
. Two twin volkite calivers: 2x Twin volkite caliver

Chaos Leviathan Dreadnought [13 PL, -1CP, 245pts]: 3x Hellforged hunter-killer missile [15pts], Leviathan siege claw and meltagun, Mark of Slaanesh, Storm cannon [10pts]
. Two twin volkite calivers: 2x Twin volkite caliver

Helbrute [6 PL, 135pts]: Combi-bolter [5pts], Helbrute fist, Mark of Tzeentch, Twin lascannon [20pts]

Terminators [16 PL, 330pts]: Icon of Excess [10pts], Mark of Slaanesh
. Terminator [33pts]: Combi-plasma [5pts], Lightning Claw
. Terminator [28pts]: Combi-bolter, Lightning Claw
. Terminator [28pts]: Combi-bolter, Lightning Claw
. Terminator [28pts]: Combi-bolter, Lightning Claw
. Terminator [28pts]: Combi-bolter, Lightning Claw
. Terminator [38pts]: Combi-plasma [5pts], Power fist [5pts]
. Terminator [33pts]: Chainaxe, Combi-bolter, Power fist [5pts]
. Terminator [38pts]: Combi-plasma [5pts], Power fist [5pts]
. Terminator [28pts]: Chainaxe, Combi-bolter
. Terminator Champion [38pts]: Chainfist [5pts], Combi-melta [5pts]

+ Heavy Support [24 PL, 430pts] +

Obliterators [10 PL, 210pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. 2x Obliterator [10 PL, 210pts]: 2x Crushing fists, 2x Fleshmetal guns

Venomcrawler [7 PL, 110pts]: Eviscerating claws, 2x Excruciator cannon, Mark of Tzeentch, Soulflayer tendrils

Venomcrawler [7 PL, 110pts]: Eviscerating claws, 2x Excruciator cannon, Mark of Tzeentch, Soulflayer tendrils

++ Total: [106 PL, -2CP, 2,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

The plan is for the lord and the 3 dreads to advance to the middle and just shoot everything then charge in. Sorcerer will be behind them giving them extra invulnerable and prescience.

Disco lord and his 2 friends the venomcrawlers will push on another objective and wait for the terminators and oblits to come help

3 squads of marines will full e on objectives and do actions for me.

It's a very blunt list and I'm looking forward to using it.
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




The dark hollows of Kentucky

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Doctrines are for loyalists, not Chaos Space Marines. CSM need their own thing.
"Hateful Directives".

They do the same, but sound more angry.

Yeah.....if they do that you'll be just as annoyed as me.
   
Made in us
Warp-Screaming Noise Marine




 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Doctrines are for loyalists, not Chaos Space Marines. CSM need their own thing.
"Hateful Directives".

They do the same, but sound more angry.

Yeah.....if they do that you'll be just as annoyed as me.


You are most probably correct that we are getting a rough equivalent in the chaos space marine codex as what death guard and tsons got. People love playing those codices too so I would not be bummed out if that's what we got as well. I still would rather a new index edition rather than a new codex XD I wouldn't feel bummed out to be left out of the 9th edition codex creep.

Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. -Kurt Vonnegut 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Spoiler:
Eldenfirefly wrote:
Wow... I just had a game where I finally dusted off my CSM and brought them out after well over a year. I was going to try out our new "death to the false emperor". All I can say is ... "wow! Its good!" lol

I brought a pure black legion list. Not soup, not mixed legion. Just pure black legion. Starting with 13 CP because of Abaddon was the first refreshing difference.

Shout out to my opponent as well. Although it was a casual game, he is a great player, and loves to bring pretty good lists. Yet, he doesn't sweat the small things and games with him always end up really enjoyable. I have learnt a lot from him.

So, here's my list:

Abaddon (warlord).
Terminator Sorceror (delightful agonies + warptime) with the relic angelsbane.

30 cultists
2 squads of 10 cultists

2 squads of 5 Berzerkers in a Rhino (champ w lightning claw)
2 squads of 5 Berzerkers in a Rhino (champ w lightning claw)
10 terminators, all with lightning claw and combi bolters.

2 squads of 5 raptors, champ w lightning claw

1 Khorne Lord of Skulls (1cp).

He brought Necrons. I can't remember the whole list. But it had roughly 1 squad of 5 immortals, 3 squads of 5 scarabs, 3 squads of 6 Wraiths, Nightbringer and Void Dragon, a Catacomb Command Barge Lord, Szeras and a unit of Cryptothralls. It looks very troop lite (only 1 troop), until you realise he took the custom dynasty that gives him army wide pregame move plus everything except the 2 C'tans are obsec.

Anyway, I won't post the full battle report here. I will just summarise the best parts for me. This was when his first 6 man wraith unit charged into my Terminator squad, whiffed and killed only 1 terminator, and in retaliation, my terminator squad obliterated that entire wraith squad in one combat phase!

And then next turn, the same terminator squad charged into a second wraith squad ... and obliterated it as well... lol.

Let me just say... Black legion terminators with lightning claw, and backed by Abbadon are... obscene. They are rerolling all hits, so I can reroll all my 1,2,3,4s to fish for 5,6s which are exploding hits. And then I vets for 1CP so that now they are +1 to wound plus they reroll all failed wounds because lightning claws...

I didn't even need to use the Mercilous Fighters strategem to add 1 more attack because it was already overkill!

I love our new Death to the False Emperor!


Abaddon, a gakload of cultists, and an Apostle with the 5++ prayer would make for an interesting list. Not terribly punchy, but definitely more than it used to be and crazy hard to remove.

Also Bezerkers with +1 to hit exploding on 4s.

   
Made in cz
Angered Reaver Arena Champion




Connah's Quay, North Wales

Given the Long War update now effecting everything, has anyone given any special thought to pulling back out the Creations of Bile? The legion trait is really good for combat, where the 6+ auto hits are in effect, whereas Bile gives these units +1 attack so it can proc more often.

Seems decently powerful, fueled up on Raptors and Warp Talons and his own pet Daemon Prince flying around. Seems like one of the more melee capable ways that Chaos can be run.

 
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Given the Long War update now effecting everything, has anyone given any special thought to pulling back out the Creations of Bile? The legion trait is really good for combat, where the 6+ auto hits are in effect, whereas Bile gives these units +1 attack so it can proc more often.

Seems decently powerful, fueled up on Raptors and Warp Talons and his own pet Daemon Prince flying around. Seems like one of the more melee capable ways that Chaos can be run.


Hmm maybe. But would it be better than a world eaters army that also gets +1 attack and where the berserkers are obsec ?
   
Made in de
Prescient Cryptek of Eternity






Germany

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Given the Long War update now effecting everything, has anyone given any special thought to pulling back out the Creations of Bile? The legion trait is really good for combat, where the 6+ auto hits are in effect, whereas Bile gives these units +1 attack so it can proc more often.

Seems decently powerful, fueled up on Raptors and Warp Talons and his own pet Daemon Prince flying around. Seems like one of the more melee capable ways that Chaos can be run.


Creations of Bile legion trait sucks. Bile doesnt even benefit from his own legion trait, WTF ? Biles Enhancements suck. It works at the end of the movement phase. So your raptors/warp talons need to wait T1 until bile enhances them, and its only one unit you can enhance. In T2 you can start to move, and maybe in T3 you reach melee, but your unit is probably already dead, or reduced to almost nothing.
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





So, Chosen are actually decent now, with our new Death the the False Everyone rules. Has anyone tried out Chosen in a Rhino ?

5 Chosen, with Mark of Slanaash and Icon of Excess, all 5 with one lightning claw. They still have their bolters. The squad is 95 points, and hits like a truck. Its gets exploding 5s for additional hits, and rerolls to wound with lightning claws on a base 21 attacks when it charges or is charged.

Putting a squad or even two such squads in a Rhino doesn't sound too bad.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/13 07:27:59


 
   
Made in nz
Blood Sacrifice to Khorne



New Zealand

I've been rolling with a squad of 8 with claws, and 6 plasma in a dreadclaw with my World Eaters - they're a credible threat to drop in and clear something and don't need a ton of support.

6000 points World Eaters


2500 points Harlequins 
   
Made in us
Warp-Screaming Noise Marine




If you put combibolters on them in that slaanesh setup you can also blast a screen away. Or have combibolters and a plasma/claw squad to roll in after you shred those screens.

Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. -Kurt Vonnegut 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Has anyone experimented with playing chaos marines with 2 wounds, just upping the points a little to match loyalists? Did you notice any difference?
   
 
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