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Today my good friend Ben was talking to me about this tactic he developed to combat an all-infiltrating army, which seem to be the rage lately.

It works mainly for Tau, but almost anybody has access to kroot from the mercenaries list.

Standard table size: 48x72

You set up your units accross your deployment zone at the 12 inch mark.
Next you roll off for infiltrators.  This will only work if you win the roll, but getting this to work half the time is more than enough :-)

So you win the roll then set up a line of kroot 18 inches away from your 12-inch deployment line and 18 from the enemy's board edge, and space them 2 inches apart from edge of the table to the other edge (therefore the unit must be at least 24 models strong).  Then your reach our your hand to shake your opponent's because he can't deploy a single unit in his army and just lost the game.

What would you do in a scenario like that? 

I'd say very nice, now do you want to play a real game?

I don't play an all infiltrating army, and I would never make an army that could do this against an all infiltrating army because sometimes you just want to PLAY the game and not play stupid 40K tricks.

Yet sometimes you just want to teach a little lesson to those who make entire armies based around "40k tricks", hrm? You'd never make an army that could do this against an all infiltrating army? I don't think you caught the gist of it, because *all* you need is one large unit of kroot with kroot hounds that numbers 24 models or more (which is not rare at all for a fat kroot mob) and there ya go.

Ok,

1. This isn't a 'tactic', its a cheap trick based on exploitation of the rules.

2. Why the 'all infiltration' hate? Its a valid, legal, and fluffy upgrade for certain lists.

3. Had I an all infiltrate list (and I don't), I'd laugh my arse off if you tried this on me and succeeded.

Why? Not because it was funny. Not because it was clever. Not because you 'out foxed' me.
But rather for the simple reason that now YOU now have to waste time putting all your models away and trying to find another opponent while I can simply move my unpacked army over to the next table and in very little time begin a new game with someone else.

@Mr. Bombadidalobadoabaridorud

I hereby crown you, king of the dumb@ss'! ALL HAIL

An interesting "F-You!" to gimmick lists.

However, as has been mentioned, the practical constraints of this tactic are gargantuan, ie: you don't get to play.

I salute you. Would be fun to see if you knew you were up against an "all infiltrating, demonic demon prince, with speed, mark, cheese poofs, khornate choker, deamon blade, cable vision, demonic chains.. ect ect ect"

I agree that your opponent cannot deploy a unit, but where in the rulebook does it say that he loses the game because of it?  To me, it looks like the game never got past the deploy forces point.  On page 81, there is a box that says Start The Game.  This comes AFTER deploy forces.  So if the game never starts, it never ends, right?  Therefore what you're doing is just a waste of time.  It isn't even a draw, because there is no game.  In fact, in a tournament setting it probably would be considered a purposeful waste of time, giving your opponent an automatic massacre! 

Now, deploying models and preventing droppods and deepstrikers from showing up is during the game, and is a valid tactic.  What you want to do is pure wiffle (I heard it during British Parliament).

- Oaka (who plays an all-infiltrating force, making all these comments ridiculously biased)

An all infiltrating force should always have at least one non-infiltrating model, otherwise it's very vulerable to shenanigans like this. Consider 2 all infiltrating armies, both will likely have the ability to prevent the other from deploying entirely, so the game is 100% decided by the infiltrate-first roll.

Be a smart player and don't infiltrate everything.

I maybe wrong about this, but don't you deploy the infiltrators AFTER the rest og the army is on the table.
btw. hail the king of Dumb@ss

that is going to b my new Sig.

sorry, I overread the part of "all" infiltrating army. my bad. who plays this donkey anyway

Thanks for the nickname happypants. But not really, I don't get why some people are being anal about this.

An all infiltrating army means you get a great tactical advantage over your opponent in deployment. How is this fair to your opponent? The only way for your opponent to have the same deployment fairness as you is for him/her to field an all infiltrating army as well. So I don't want to hear anybody crusading the righteousness of an all infiltrating army because it's just another way to take advantage of an ability, just like Iron Warriors taking 4 heavies and 9 oblits, Khorne Daemonbombing, etc etc. For warhammer to be a great game, every tactic should have a counter, and this is an effective counter to said tactic.

Now, depending on your opponent, it's up to you whether or not you actually want to employ this tactic; there's no problem with simply deploying your big kroot unit normally. However, if your opponent is a prick, like some people I've met in tournaments and games I've played, then I'd not hesitate to teach a lesson :-P

However, it is a good question how this would be resolved in a tournament; I'm still leaning towards the all-infiltrating army getting the loss because they chose to not deploy any units until it was time to set up infiltrators.

As Jayden63 said: Play a eal game.

It just won't work. A single, non-infiltrating unit is enough to prevent this "tactic" and all-infiltrating is not that strong. Sure you got an advantage during deployment but so do armies which can deploy their heavy hitters as fast attack instead of heavy support.

And it's not an auto-loss because no game happend

yea its not that big a deal. my tau includes 2 units of kroot for just the purpose of mission & infiltrate pushback.

my alpha legion list includes infiltrate on every model (apart from oblits who deepstrike) and if im playing a game with a mission pushback, or the other guy has infiltrators, i just deploy a unit normally.

infiltrate is optional, you can deploy a infiltrating unit normally. people always forget this for some reason. they also seem to forget that you dont need to put a infil unit 18" away from the enemy, you can just deploy in ur dzone but benefit from being able to deploy after the enemy.



anyway.
what is important as the tau player if you face infiltrate-heavy, is to put kroot unit down normally at the very front of ur dzone. this claims space, if you didn't want to use a hammerhead for pushback.

so in a normal mission you deploy 12" on to the table. the enemy puts down a unit of their own to stop you screwing them if you win the roll-off, like described above, 12" on as well.
you win the infil roll, and put another unit of kroot 6" in front of the first, and 18" away from the enemy's first normal deployment, to claim more space.

then the enemy infiltraters are pushed back to deploying in their dzone or in the corners.

if you lose the infil roll off, the enemy does the same to you.

its worth sacrificing kroot to gain an extra 6" of breathing space, this is why tau armies should always include some kroot units, and why the units should be cheap as possible because if you sacrifice them, it hurts less, but they can still do the same pushback role for the lower price

@bomb, you end up paying for infiltrate on almost everything and some armies are MADE to be all infiltrating (Kroot mercenaries) It is not a cheese tactic, mostly it just adds flavor to a game.

More importantly, you are there to PLAY. Putting out an army like that just means you don't get to play.

OTOH: If you were to say put all your infiltrators 19" away from the opponents table edge and force them all to set up within 1" of thier table edge I would call you sharp and witty.

well, depending on your army, the best thing to do against an all-infiltratin army (IMO still a very stupid and cheezy idea) you should get as many Auspexes/Scanners as you can. it's almost like an extra shooting phase

Posted By Mr. Bombadidaloo on 04/27/2006 11:01 PM
However, if your opponent is a prick, like some people I've met in tournaments and games I've played, then I'd not hesitate to teach a lesson :-P

Good points.

Maybe, once in a blue moon, it would be acceptable to do this against an ultra-annoying POS player who regularly drives the rest of your gaming group nuts. But only do it once, just to prove your point.

As for tournaments, I think you're just as likely to have the massacre resolved in your opponents favor by the judges, simply for being an incredibly poor sport and uber-cheese monger, and for delaying the tournament while the situation was resolved.

 

Better yet, DON'T do it, but instead simply point out that you COULD do it and show him how.  Then simply force him to deploy in one corner in a very tight formation. Rain pie. Repeat.

 

(Do Tau have pie?)

(Do Tau have pie?)

That depends if Railgun Submunitions count. They're only AP4, but they are S6.

Aside from all the numerous, easier ways to defeat infultrating armies such as auspex/scanner, Chooser of the Slain, etc, this tactic only works when you get to put your unit down first, and depends on zero terrain for them to hide behind. If your tau, and playing on a board with almost no cover, why are you complaining? Seriously, what all infultrate armies scare you? Deathworld Veterans? All SM scouts? Alpha legion? There are not many armies that can pull that off, and most will have no tanks nor 12 charge range guys.

Can't your opponet place his guys normally in his deployment zone anyway? All he has to do is place one squad to nerf your plan.

I wouldn't use this "tactic" in a friendly game, for that its just too stupid. But in a Tournament ? Definitely. I don't have a 24 Strong unit, but even with a 10 Strong you can deny a very big part of the board.

I just played against a Tau player last night with my Alpha Legion. He used two units of Kroot to box me into a corner quite well (I do have one non-infiltrating unit), though I did get my lord and lietentant and a small squad close to his lines.

And of course, he did manage to somehow get his broadsides unit to fight off and beat my daemon prince, causing him to run from combat...The lietenant got revenge though, taking out a squad of firewarriors and a crisis suit squad

Winning the Infiltrator deployment roll is godly as a Tau player. You can really %&*ç up the other players deployment. And if you're using the quarter deplyoment, then you can deploy your tanks very aggressively and block up huge portions of the board to devastating effect, just make sure he can't deploy up your *%ç&.

Give the guy a break. This is a fine tactic for tournaments where you have at least one large infiltrating unit and the opponent has an all infiltrating army and chooses not to deploy any units in the deployment phase and loses the roll to deploy infiltrators first or wins the roll but elects to give you the game. In other words it is so unlikely to happen that you might as well do it when you can just to say you did. For those of you who say that you did not win the game because no game was played, well I just don't buy that. To me you would get the same amount of points as if your opponent conceded and walked away, in other words, max points. If you ever played this tactic in a tournament that I run, that will be the outcome.

I came up with the same tactic in a 2000 point "Tournament of Cheese." I played a mostly infiltrating Khorne army. Now don't try to tell me Khorne can't infiltrate. They did. It was approved and in fact was in the spirit of the tournament. With one large squad of 16 infiltrating berserkers I could win the game in the deployment phase for any long table edge deployment that was 19" deep or less, in other words all of them. In a 18" diagonal setup I could give you 9 square inches in which to deploy you 2000 points.

No, using your infiltrators to force your opponent to deploy where you want to is a fine tactic.  Coming up with a method to try and sleeze a victory without rolling a die is lame.  Like I mentioned earlier, it is a good thing that the rulebook actually says the game starts when both armies are deployed.  Hence, no automatic victory.

When players take turns placing terrain before the game begins, would you call be a strategic mastermind for filling one deployment zone with impassable terrain and claiming the win?

"A victory is assured when you force an enemy to fight you in the middle of a mountain, where he cannot exist."  - Sun Tzu

- Oaka

By simply deploying a unit or two regularly instead of infiltrating the whole army, this tactic is immediately neutralized.

I can't imagine anyone being able to claim a victory even if they did pull this off. The units aren't destroyed, and the game never starts. While you can certainly give the win to him if it's your tournament Phoebius, it's going to be at a cost to your reputation.

The cheesier thing to do would deploy the Kroot unit in such a way s to have only a little part of the board avilible to deploy in. He will then bunch up as many models as he can into one corner, and those that couldn't be deployed would be lost, than play the game wiping out the few units he has left.

Than be prepared to be jumped later that day by an angry player and have your arse beat down.

But than if your opponent had half a wit about him, he would just deploy a few units before infiltration, thus invalidating this whole thread.

A guy posted something about this on wargamerau (IIRC) ages back. The circumstances were dfferent I think all infil Alpha v kroot mercs. However he had a catchy name "40k in 40 seconds"..