Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Theres no reason they wouldnt as long as they are from the same hive fleet.

There might be sentences to forbid their use. I don't have the book yet.

I have to say I am really suprised by the power they put into this book. Taking a proper Levithan list now with the new stratagems and synaptic links seems like it will be absolutely devastating. I had no intention of dusting off my Nids since Thousand Sons are so fun to play, but I might have to.

The new Synergy with Hive guard is especially nuts. Loading them up with reroll all failed hits or +1 to hit with our double shoot stratagem is going to just obliterate a lot of armies. Give a Dima Heavy and Light cover? Solid. Termagants can actually be a threat now? Also solid. While we are still leaning on some crutches like Hive guard, it feels like I can actually play some competitive games now and not get completely rolled over.

https://youtu.be/LlUqzEuiV_8

This is a list that did good work at a recent tourney, Pre-Octavious buffs...food for thought...

pinecone77 wrote:
https://youtu.be/LlUqzEuiV_8

This is a list that did good work at a recent tourney, Pre-Octavious buffs...food for thought...

to put it bluntly, seems like a weaker version of nidzilla. Not bad but its significantly worse than the better versions imo

Ok 2 questions:
1: Read a battle report recently that had a bunch of Gants come in on a Lictors pheremone trail. I thought the consensus was that the Pheremone Trail was useless. What's up? Is there a change via FAQ or something?

2: Exocrenes. I knew they were popular for a while, how to people feel about/use them now? I have one waiting to be painted up and I wonder if I should reprioritize it, get more, whatever.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Ok 2 questions:
1: Read a battle report recently that had a bunch of Gants come in on a Lictors pheremone trail. I thought the consensus was that the Pheremone Trail was useless. What's up? Is there a change via FAQ or something?

2: Exocrenes. I knew they were popular for a while, how to people feel about/use them now? I have one waiting to be painted up and I wonder if I should reprioritize it, get more, whatever.

1. Something did indeed change. There where no good targets for that stratagem. 9th edition has a stratagem that allows you to reserve anything. Ithas really bad restrictions to where they come onto the board. The lictor stratagem helps with that. A solution in serach for a problem.

2. They are stil good I believe. They got a high competetion from the forgeworld modesl when they got updates. They are still in ship shape. And tyranids have the usual problems of beeing very dependend on stratagems.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Ok 2 questions:
1: Read a battle report recently that had a bunch of Gants come in on a Lictors pheremone trail. I thought the consensus was that the Pheremone Trail was useless. What's up? Is there a change via FAQ or something?

2: Exocrenes. I knew they were popular for a while, how to people feel about/use them now? I have one waiting to be painted up and I wonder if I should reprioritize it, get more, whatever.

Yeah, strategic reserve in 9th edition has made pheromone trail usable.
It was bad back in 8th edition, because the ability to reposition a unit arriving from reserve was pointless when all your abilities to reserve units in the codex were already deepstrikes.
But now in 9th there's a method of reserving stuff which pheromone trail actually can improve.
Coupled with devilgaunts going down to 7 points, and lictors becoming very useful for scoring secondaries, you see it used reasonably often now.

Exocrines are still good, but they've taken a couple of recent hits which have made people start to question them a bit more.
One is that Symbiostorm now requires an unmodified 6 to trigger, which means exocrines no longer trigger it on a 5+.
Another is the change to abilities which count models as stationary, so it can no longer benefit from the Symbiotic Devastation stratagem on the turn it arrives from reserve. Making it a bit harder to protect from an alpha strike (it did simultaneously gain the ability to fall back and use this stratagem, so it's kind of a side-grade. But I still think it lost out overall).
Another is the arrival of Orks into the meta. The Ramshackle rule applies -1 damage to weapons below S8, which makes S7 exocrines not the greatest against them (the existing sources of -1 damage like dreadnoughts and death guard already gave them trouble. Now there's just more of it.)
Also the new octarius rules provide a bunch of buffs which work better on hive guard than exocrines. People are still exploring the best new combos, but bringing more hive guard instead of exocrines seems to be what people are currently leaning towards.

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

pinecone77 wrote:
https://youtu.be/LlUqzEuiV_8

This is a list that did good work at a recent tourney, Pre-Octavious buffs...food for thought...

to put it bluntly, seems like a weaker version of nidzilla. Not bad but its significantly worse than the better versions imo

Well...it did win some games....

It is not the sort of list I would build, that is what makes it interesting to me. I can learn far more from other styles, than being in an "echo-chamber". My take away was his heavy use of Termagants and Lictors to play the mission, while the Big Bugs did the "distraction-Carnifex" job on steroids.

I think the biggest change is not the new rules (though those do help) it is that it is finally getting through to TO's that more terrain makes for better games, and helps with the go first, I win issue.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think the new Synapse boosts help Exocrenes a Bunch, both the re-roll all, and the +1 to hit are big assets. Having both available, and putting one on an Exo, and one on a Hiveguard Brood will be a good way to run a shooting list. Kronos is back baby!

pinecone77 wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

pinecone77 wrote:
https://youtu.be/LlUqzEuiV_8

This is a list that did good work at a recent tourney, Pre-Octavious buffs...food for thought...

to put it bluntly, seems like a weaker version of nidzilla. Not bad but its significantly worse than the better versions imo

Well...it did win some games....

Yeah. And so do better lists?

There is nothing echo chamber about my post, I'm stating my own opinion, not anybody else's. I think that this list is a concept that I've been saying is really strong for us for ages, yet the execution of his list is just lacking. So much points wasted on stuff that draws away from what the list wants to do and doesn't add much. Ironically it looks like the sort of list someone would build if they WERE just living in the echo chamber and needed to include one of every unit they had heard was good at least once, rather than playtesting the actual playstyle of the list and finding what it needs.

pinecone77 wrote:
My take away was his heavy use of Termagants and Lictors to play the mission, while the Big Bugs did the "distraction-Carnifex" job on steroids.

Literally EXACTLY what my Nidzilla list does (except this one fits less Gants), and what I've been saying it should be doing for like a year now. He's running 150 pts of Gants in 3x 10 squads man, that's just not really enough, and not really "heavy use" at all.

pinecone77 wrote:

I think the new Synapse boosts help Exocrenes a Bunch, both the re-roll all, and the +1 to hit are big assets. Having both available, and putting one on an Exo, and one on a Hiveguard Brood will be a good way to run a shooting list. Kronos is back baby!

The thing is though, neither of those buffs work on Exocrines.
The re-roll all hits warlord trait only works on Infantry, Beasts, or Swarms (also it's locked to hive fleet leviathan).
The +1 to hit is made redundant by the exocrines own Symbiotic Targeting ability (+1 to hit if it doesn't move). Since 9th edition won't let you get more than +1 to hit, this is only useful on the exocrine to negate a -1 to hit.

It's not that exocrines have gotten too much worse, it's mainly that the new buffs either don't work on them, or just work much better on other units.

I guess the tervigons synaptic link to re-roll 1's and 2's to wound isn't bad on an exocrine. But I'm still a bit leery of tervigons.

Arson Fire wrote:

pinecone77 wrote:

I think the new Synapse boosts help Exocrenes a Bunch, both the re-roll all, and the +1 to hit are big assets. Having both available, and putting one on an Exo, and one on a Hiveguard Brood will be a good way to run a shooting list. Kronos is back baby!

The thing is though, neither of those buffs work on Exocrines.
The re-roll all hits warlord trait only works on Infantry, Beasts, or Swarms (also it's locked to hive fleet leviathan).
The +1 to hit is made redundant by the exocrines own Symbiotic Targeting ability (+1 to hit if it doesn't move). Since 9th edition won't let you get more than +1 to hit, this is only useful on the exocrine to negate a -1 to hit.

It's not that exocrines have gotten too much worse, it's mainly that the new buffs either don't work on them, or just work much better on other units.

I guess the tervigons synaptic link to re-roll 1's and 2's to wound isn't bad on an exocrine. But I'm still a bit leery of tervigons.

Symbiostorm moving to unmodified 6's is a big nerf to the Exocrine.

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

pinecone77 wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

pinecone77 wrote:
https://youtu.be/LlUqzEuiV_8

This is a list that did good work at a recent tourney, Pre-Octavious buffs...food for thought...

to put it bluntly, seems like a weaker version of nidzilla. Not bad but its significantly worse than the better versions imo

Well...it did win some games....

Yeah. And so do better lists?

There is nothing echo chamber about my post, I'm stating my own opinion, not anybody else's. I think that this list is a concept that I've been saying is really strong for us for ages, yet the execution of his list is just lacking. So much points wasted on stuff that draws away from what the list wants to do and doesn't add much. Ironically it looks like the sort of list someone would build if they WERE just living in the echo chamber and needed to include one of every unit they had heard was good at least once, rather than playtesting the actual playstyle of the list and finding what it needs.

pinecone77 wrote:
My take away was his heavy use of Termagants and Lictors to play the mission, while the Big Bugs did the "distraction-Carnifex" job on steroids.

Literally EXACTLY what my Nidzilla list does (except this one fits less Gants), and what I've been saying it should be doing for like a year now. He's running 150 pts of Gants in 3x 10 squads man, that's just not really enough, and not really "heavy use" at all.

Being negative about any/all is a form of "echo-chamber" and it is one that does harm.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Arson Fire wrote:

pinecone77 wrote:

I think the new Synapse boosts help Exocrenes a Bunch, both the re-roll all, and the +1 to hit are big assets. Having both available, and putting one on an Exo, and one on a Hiveguard Brood will be a good way to run a shooting list. Kronos is back baby!

The thing is though, neither of those buffs work on Exocrines.
The re-roll all hits warlord trait only works on Infantry, Beasts, or Swarms (also it's locked to hive fleet leviathan).
The +1 to hit is made redundant by the exocrines own Symbiotic Targeting ability (+1 to hit if it doesn't move). Since 9th edition won't let you get more than +1 to hit, this is only useful on the exocrine to negate a -1 to hit.

It's not that exocrines have gotten too much worse, it's mainly that the new buffs either don't work on them, or just work much better on other units.

I guess the tervigons synaptic link to re-roll 1's and 2's to wound isn't bad on an exocrine. But I'm still a bit leery of tervigons.

But....it does help (+1 to hit) when you run out from behind cover, or fall back and shoot (using strats/ Swarmy) doesn't it?

pinecone77 wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

pinecone77 wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

pinecone77 wrote:
https://youtu.be/LlUqzEuiV_8

This is a list that did good work at a recent tourney, Pre-Octavious buffs...food for thought...

to put it bluntly, seems like a weaker version of nidzilla. Not bad but its significantly worse than the better versions imo

Well...it did win some games....

Yeah. And so do better lists?

There is nothing echo chamber about my post, I'm stating my own opinion, not anybody else's. I think that this list is a concept that I've been saying is really strong for us for ages, yet the execution of his list is just lacking. So much points wasted on stuff that draws away from what the list wants to do and doesn't add much. Ironically it looks like the sort of list someone would build if they WERE just living in the echo chamber and needed to include one of every unit they had heard was good at least once, rather than playtesting the actual playstyle of the list and finding what it needs.

pinecone77 wrote:
My take away was his heavy use of Termagants and Lictors to play the mission, while the Big Bugs did the "distraction-Carnifex" job on steroids.

Literally EXACTLY what my Nidzilla list does (except this one fits less Gants), and what I've been saying it should be doing for like a year now. He's running 150 pts of Gants in 3x 10 squads man, that's just not really enough, and not really "heavy use" at all.

Being negative about any/all is a form of "echo-chamber" and it is one that does harm.

Cool story, point me to where I've literally EVER done that? I'm constantly sharing positive opinions that don't match up with the groupthink - that often to turn out to be correct later on down the line. Being completely incapable of taking criticism to a list you think is strong is the only viewpoint here doing anyone harm.

pinecone77 wrote:

But....it does help (+1 to hit) when you run out from behind cover, or fall back and shoot (using strats/ Swarmy) doesn't it?

It helps in the case where you want to move two exocrines in one turn.
We've already got the Symbiotic Devastation stratagem for the first one, which is far better due to also letting it use Weapon Beast to shoot twice.
The second exocrine could use the +1 to hit due to not getting to use its own Symbiotic Targeting ability, but it'll still only get 6 shots.

It doesn't help in the case where you fall back and shoot, because the only way to do that is with the Symbiotic Devastation stratagem which already allows it to benefit from Symbiotic Targeting.

So the +1 to hit is a very minor benefit on exocrines. It's redundant due an existing much better ability, and only helps them when they are already suffering penalties.
Comparatively, put the +1 to hit on hive guard where it's an awesome bonus all the time.

I believe that there are some new strats though. And one can let you fall back and shoot, though I am hoping that we can get more play without strats as Nids are very thirsty and spending fewer per turn would be nice.

Oh right, the trygon primes synaptic link. Yeah that lets you fall back and shoot.
However that can't be stacked with the +1 to hit, because you can't apply two synaptic links to the same unit. So it still doesn't help.

Yeah, I have not purchased the Octavius book, yet. But here are my ideas based on watching you-tube videos....

This is my "style" so YMMV...

My standard list will be three units of MSU Warriors, with at least one, possibly two having Synaptic link just too good not to have
One large 15+ Brood of Stealers, and a Broodlord with Synaptic link

two Lictors, and a unit of Rippers for "pop-up" use, and 6 Hive Guard. It is after that when I get wondering.....

I really want to use my beloved Tyranofex and maybe finally use Beetle hive with the new toys. I also want to try out a Tervigon with some kit, and 30 Termigants with maybe three Venos to hold the center, and backfield....?

The Malecepter also looks fun, but I don't think it can make a competitive list sadly.

I think I will be trying out a Prime, with Synaptic link as a Warlord as well


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also use Zoeys and Neuro, so the new Synaptic link looks like a must take as well. (only 10 points!)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also want to revisit using Hormagaunts with custom fleet adapt for -1 AC, with the new strats and powers they might be a decent "bomb" unit ...maybe!

This has me excited to dust off the Nids and try em.
Is it me, or is the Tervigon now nearing an "unkillable dreadnought" level.

T8 3+/5++/6++ (or 5++ with Catalyst)
Get 5++ with Dermic Symbiosis
Biomorphic Crapace grants -1 to wound
WLT Adaptive Bioliogy, reduce dmg by 1 after first wound
Take Alpha Leader and grab Swarm Leader for buff as second WLT

Optional Support units:
Consider adding Malanthrope for -1 to hit
Maleceptor for -1 Str

Strategy:
Hold center of board.
Surround with gants getting rerrolls of 1 to hit and 1,2 to wound. Possibly buffing with full rerolls.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, someone please check my math on the devilgant bomb.


Use the stratagem to Turn 30 Devilgants into Kronos
Have kronos Neuorpthope cast sybmiostorm for extra hit on 6s
use Stratagem relentless fury for another +2 hits on 6s for large units of 11+ models.
So for each 6 you get an additional 3 hits.

Reroll 1s (kronos) you get 105 hits with 17.5 of those being 6's which become 70 total hits. (17.5*4 since the 6 is a hit; basically tesla on steroids). So 175 hits total.
87.5 wounds on T4
with reroll 1,2 wound from tervigon Weaons Gestation Synaptic link you get 116 wounds. On 3+ save your still doing 38 wounds.

Then you can single minded annihilation and do it again if anything is left still in range.

Alternatively, dont change to kronos, dont use symbiostorm, and instead use Swarm Commander for full rerolls.
135 hits with 2 extra hits on 6s so another (22.5*3) for 67.5 hits. Thus 202.5 hits total. So on T4 101.25 wounds.
If rerolling 1,2 you get another 16.875 wounds. so 118 wounds total on T4. With 3+ save you do 39.33 wounds.

So slightly better this way.

I wonder if there is a threshold for which is better with T3 vs T4. My head hurts. Someone plug into the hive mind and me out here. XD

 Dynas wrote:
This has me excited to dust off the Nids and try em.
Is it me, or is the Tervigon now nearing an "unkillable dreadnought" level.

T8 3+/5++/6++ (or 5++ with Catalyst)
Get 5++ with Dermic Symbiosis
Biomorphic Crapace grants -1 to wound
WLT Adaptive Bioliogy, reduce dmg by 1 after first wound
Take Alpha Leader and grab Swarm Leader for buff as second WLT

Optional Support units:
Consider adding Malanthrope for -1 to hit
Maleceptor for -1 Str

Strategy:
Hold center of board.
Surround with gants getting rerrolls of 1 to hit and 1,2 to wound. Possibly buffing with full rerolls.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, someone please check my math on the devilgant bomb.


Use the stratagem to Turn 30 Devilgants into Kronos
Have kronos Neuorpthope cast sybmiostorm for extra hit on 6s
use Stratagem relentless fury for another +2 hits on 6s for large units of 11+ models.
So for each 6 you get an additional 3 hits.

Reroll 1s (kronos) you get 105 hits with 17.5 of those being 6's which become 70 total hits. (17.5*4 since the 6 is a hit; basically tesla on steroids). So 175 hits total.
87.5 wounds on T4
with reroll 1,2 wound from tervigon Weaons Gestation Synaptic link you get 116 wounds. On 3+ save your still doing 38 wounds.

Then you can single minded annihilation and do it again if anything is left still in range.

Alternatively, dont change to kronos, dont use symbiostorm, and instead use Swarm Commander for full rerolls.
135 hits with 2 extra hits on 6s so another (22.5*3) for 67.5 hits. Thus 202.5 hits total. So on T4 101.25 wounds.
If rerolling 1,2 you get another 16.875 wounds. so 118 wounds total on T4. With 3+ save you do 39.33 wounds.

So slightly better this way.

I wonder if there is a threshold for which is better with T3 vs T4. My head hurts. Someone plug into the hive mind and me out here. XD

Just kill the gants, problem solved for your enemy

The problem with the unkillable Tervigon is that its a Tervigon and your opponent isn't going to care that its unkillable.

Devilgaunts are good tho.

The "super" Terv does have promise, as you can blarp out reinforcements to units that don't get eliminated, letting you play the mission with some chance. Termigants are already a good basic troop for Nids, so getting buffs is always a good thing.

 Dynas wrote:

Also, someone please check my math on the devilgant bomb.


Use the stratagem to Turn 30 Devilgants into Kronos
Have kronos Neuorpthope cast sybmiostorm for extra hit on 6s
use Stratagem relentless fury for another +2 hits on 6s for large units of 11+ models.
So for each 6 you get an additional 3 hits.

Reroll 1s (kronos) you get 105 hits with 17.5 of those being 6's which become 70 total hits. (17.5*4 since the 6 is a hit; basically tesla on steroids). So 175 hits total.
87.5 wounds on T4
with reroll 1,2 wound from tervigon Weaons Gestation Synaptic link you get 116 wounds. On 3+ save your still doing 38 wounds.

Then you can single minded annihilation and do it again if anything is left still in range.

Alternatively, dont change to kronos, dont use symbiostorm, and instead use Swarm Commander for full rerolls.
135 hits with 2 extra hits on 6s so another (22.5*3) for 67.5 hits. Thus 202.5 hits total. So on T4 101.25 wounds.
If rerolling 1,2 you get another 16.875 wounds. so 118 wounds total on T4. With 3+ save you do 39.33 wounds.

So slightly better this way.

I wonder if there is a threshold for which is better with T3 vs T4. My head hurts. Someone plug into the hive mind and me out here. XD

A few issues with that.

Firstly the Hyper Adaption stratagem does not change their faction keyword. It just changes their hive fleet adaptation. So you could not cast Symbiostorm on them. They're still Leviathan units, just ones that have swapped out their 6+++ for a different ability.

Secondly the Hyper Adaption stratagem is used in the command phase, meaning the devilgaunts had to start their turn on the table. Generally you want to deepstrike devilgaunts in as a 'bomb' for them to be intact to hit a target. Usually by the time their next turn rolls around they are either dead or stuck in combat.
Synaptic links and the Swarm Leader warlord trait have the same issue where they have to be applied in the command phase, so aren't of much use to a deepstriking unit. If you manage to have the gaunts survive unengaged until their next turn, then great, go right ahead. But best not to count on it happening.

The Relentless Flurry + shoot twice stratagems are about the best you can do for a deepstriking devilgaunt bomb on the turn they arrive. Still, that's already quite powerful.

So this is my official levi list I think. Im only gonna run it on TTS though, as i doubt i'll actually paint up all this.




Pretty cagey list actually. Hide the warriors best i can, screen with the big fleshborer gaunt unit, deep strike the lictors and reserve the pyro's. Use the strategic adeptation to reserve the 2 devilgaunt squads. now you have alot of options for secondaries.
You can take engage on all fronts and start the gargs and FHT on the board to go for that turn 1, or you can deep strike both of those units for very little on the board. If your opponent has forward deploy units you can also just go to kill them with those 2 units as well. Gargs with full rerolls, exploding hits , reroll 1's and 2's to wound, and mortals actually do alot of damage.
You can also just use them to clog up the midfield for a turn, and bait your opponent into going in and trying to wipe them out, leaving the flanks open for your round 2 strike.

The lictor/devilgaunt pheremone trail combo is known, but i doubt it gets seen too much so this list is gonna make it infamous. You've also got pyrovores that can pop in and flame screen units or do chip damage, or actions.


This list almost guarentees you full points on engage, ROD, and depending on opponent Behind Enemy Lines as well.

I only forsee problems against 2+ sv lists and vehicle spam. Vehicle spam/knight isnt a fun matchup, but you can chip damage most stuff down with the devilbombs (which you will get 2 guarenteed full volleys) and the mortals from fleshborers. We also have 3 venom cannons and the miasma cannon to do some more chunks of damage, along with the FHT's melee (should be able to drop a transport a turn).


Its got teeth, tons of board control, some speed early or late depending on whats needed, and alot of backfield pressure. If you think your opponent is gonna be in your face turn 1 you can always just not deepstrike everything and screen with the cheap 30man gaunt unit and the gargs. Tervigon is almost unkillable so youve got a reliable backfield holder as well.

Looks cool. If you get a chance to try it out...please post some after action reports.

https://youtu.be/kPP6wcybez8

Recent Tourney, Nids took second and third...without the new stuff. The featured swarm ran a Harridan, so super weird list.....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
https://youtu.be/C3XCKJSms6A

Here is a more "normal" list, no Forgeworld. And it took first place! This uses the new rules as well.

Art of War 40k just put Tryanids in bototm of S tier basically on par with GK and Drukhari.

Deleted. Need to do more research on nids before coming to the forum with vague questions

Looking to start a nid army have gard custodes and DA already
Want it to be monster heavy with a dimacharon and one hiveguard unit any list ideas would be helpful more fun than compeditive

https://youtu.be/81XVvomhOD0

Moar recent results. This guy takes forever to say stuff, but worth a listen. He runs Forgeworld sadly, so lots of what his list has is not useful for most, but if you think what you can replace those models with...?