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I backed Ogre DE as my first KS. Since then, I've backed several more. So far, I think I've done well enough, not yet having anything fail outright, although some of the final delivery / total completion windows are a lot longer than I would have imagined... I'm thinking maybe it's time to step away?

Backed

Fully-delivered
- Sedition Wars - sweet spot; unplayable, wish I could sell...
- Reaper Bones 1 - small split; partial sell
- Relic Knights - sweet spot; 1 year late; kept some minis, sold almost all
- Dreamforge Games Leviathan Crusader - a little late, awesome kit!
- Zombicide 2 - sweet spot; on time, sold all
- Reaper Bones 2 - only $10
- Zombicide 3 - sweet spot; on time, sold extras
- Super Dungeon Explore : the Forgotten King - near-complete preorder; months late, good quality
- Blood Rage - sweet spot; on time, sold all
- Kingdom Death : Monster - Herald-level pledge; late by 20+ mos, but truly incredible quality and value
- Conan - basic pledge, 1 year late

These were pretty much all "sweet spot" pledges, except Bones being tiny, Relic Knights going big, and Kingdom Death going huge. Sedition Wars was a turd of a game, that I was stupid enough to buy the terrain pack and updated rules, just flushing money down the toilet there. Relic Knights turned out to not be the right game for us, and we managed to sell off the pieces for beer profits - a very positive result. I sold off the Zombicide 2 exclusives when Z3 was announced, so my Z games are "free". Dreamforge produced an outstanding model, and I'm totally satisfied with it. Kingdom Death delivered very late but the quality and overproduction totally makes up for it, and then some! Selling off the excess cleared a lot of space and recovered a big chunk of spend.

Partially-delivered
- Ogre DE - base pledge 1 year late; SGs 3+ years late
- Robotech Tactics - partial split; 1 year late for wave 1, but decent little models; wave 2 in 2017? soon! j/k
- Journey : Wrath of Demons - months late for wave 1; wave 2 2017?

3+ years late, but Ogre DE seems to be finally working on the SGs. . Robotech is still a gakshow. Fethers. Journey Wave 2+ is crazy slow.

Not delivered
- SDE : Legends - due Q2 2017
Pesky rules & balance issues by a company that spreads itself far too thin push this to 2017.


Not (yet?) Backed

Not backed
- Heavy Gear Blitz - product is not looking impressive.
- Ninja All-Stars - looks OK, but wasn't feeling it
- Zombicide : Black Plage - looks OK, but wasn't feeling it
- the Others : 7 Sins - monsters OK; heroes meh
- Dark Souls - very expensive, not at all compelling compared to buying more KD:M
- Massive Darkness - base pledge wasn't compelling, and KD 2 is coming

Mostly, this is me moving away from 100 minis for $100, and being a lot choosier with the money I spend.

Interesting
- Mythic Battles: Pantheon - very tempting!
- Ogre Miniatures 1 - on the fence
- Kingdom Death #2 - mystery KS launching Black Friday 2016...

But I can still be tempted!

Final Lessons
- Wargames Factory produces truly excellent, boutique HIPS kits - I love their stuff
- CMoN is doing a fantastic job of running and delivering Kickstarters, I would not hesitate to back them from a business reliability standpoint.
- Kingdom Death is amazing stuff, and I'm glad to have been a part of it.

Always interesting to read about other people's experiences and the choices they made. I'm not sure I'd like to go through my list, although I will say that I missed out on anything of the ones that did not and will not be delivering. I have been lucky there. I have several that are behind and late although none of my miniatures games are as bad as some of the software ones I backed. I ended up doing Shadowrun: Hong Kong but I probably won't be backing anymore software Kickstarters for awhile. They tend to be more riskier and take longer delays than miniatures KS on average. At least with miniatures/board games KS I have more room to resale or trade for something else if I decide I don't really like it.

I am somewhat risk adverse, which is why I tend to look at splits and "sweet spot" pledges. The splits spread risk with a partner, and sweet spots can generally recoup money if it's not popular in our playgroup.

I spent over a decade doing software stuff as a consultant. I have never, will never, back a software Kickstarter. There's enough problems with a professional studio that no way I'm fronting money to amateurs!

i lost interst in KS becasue of all the ones i backed that i still dont have :(

Why anyone is willing to just throw money at these tings is beyound me.

So.... I bet Blood Rage is in our hands before Kingdom Death.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Trondheim wrote:
Why anyone is willing to just throw money at these tings is beyound me.

Typically fantastic ROI if you choose to sell.

Typically fantastic value for your dollar if you choose to keep.

Pretty simple gak.

 cincydooley wrote:

Typically fantastic ROI if you choose to sell.

Typically fantastic value for your dollar if you choose to keep.

Pretty simple gak.

Don't think that quite answered his question. Especially the 'throwing money' bit. It's like pecuniary incontinence, and - while I don't usually complain about this kind of thing - slightly off-putting consumerism. Igor's more entertaining when he's just a fictional character in Dork Tower.

I've contributed to about, oh... two kickstarters. One of them had something to do with wargaming. I think.

 tenebre wrote:
i lost interst in KS becasue of all the ones i backed that i still dont have :(

That sucks.

What did you back that hasn't delivered at all?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vermis wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

Typically fantastic ROI if you choose to sell.

Typically fantastic value for your dollar if you choose to keep.

Don't think that quite answered his question. Especially the 'throwing money' bit. It's like pecuniary incontinence, and - while I don't usually complain about this kind of thing - slightly off-putting consumerism.

If you put yourself on a budget, like I do, "bang for the buck" is a pretty important metric. Same with being able to cash out or trade if the game doesn't work in your group.

Still waiting on Kingdom Death myself, I got turned off from Kickstarter in a big way due to how Blackwater Gulch was handled when another company stepped in and the delightful riot of laughs that the Toughest Girls of the Galaxy campaign is.

I just checked what I have backed so far:

Sedition Wars - A disappointment
Reaper Bones 1 - Good value, but sold everything ( turns out I prefer quality over quantity)
Kingdom Death - Looking good, hopefully it arrives this year
Imbrian Arts - The kickstarter equivalent of having a large, spiked object inserted into my anus
Darklands First Edition 2 - Partially received, good so far but running late
Creature Caster - Delayed, buyer's remorse
Infamy - Excited to eventually receive my stuff!
Darklands: Monstrous Mounts - Existing models purchased
RBG Brigands & Aenglish - Exemplary
Twisting Catacombs - Delivery soon I hope!
Minion Miniatures - As above
Fallen Frontiers - Impressive progress so far
Blood Rage - I expect this to deliver on time

The only really bad experience I have had so far is the Imbrian Arts Kickstarter. I am resigned to never receiving what I paid for, I curse the name of Jody Siegel.

What happened to Blackwater Gulch?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
What happened to Blackwater Gulch?

Halfway through the fulfilment stage a company took over from the chap who ran the KS, which turned a rather communicative post-campaign period into one of pointlessly long waits and other bs. It took them quite a few months to get our pledges, that they had been sitting on for some time now, all boxed up, packed up and shipped to us.

 cincydooley wrote:
So.... I bet Blood Rage is in our hands before Kingdom Death.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Trondheim wrote:
Why anyone is willing to just throw money at these tings is beyound me.

Typically fantastic ROI if you choose to sell.

Typically fantastic value for your dollar if you choose to keep.

Pretty simple gak.

And translated into some form of English that others may understand?

 Trondheim wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
So.... I bet Blood Rage is in our hands before Kingdom Death.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Trondheim wrote:
Why anyone is willing to just throw money at these tings is beyound me.

Typically fantastic ROI if you choose to sell.

Typically fantastic value for your dollar if you choose to keep.

Pretty simple gak.

And translated into some form of English that others may understand?

He's saying that the KS exclusives will net you a good bonus on eBay or the other places people go to sell their gak.

Ah I see, well seeling whatever thing you recived for backing a project seems bit odd. As one would perhaps like to keep said thing? But I supoose ones milliage may vary on the matter

I think it's odd as well, but yeah, YMMV. I wouldn't consider a KS a great investment if all you're in for is reselling it.

 Trondheim wrote:
Why anyone is willing to just throw money at these tings is beyound me.

You aren't really throwing money, it is more a risk vs investment opportunity. For example CMoN is established so it is fairly common that you will get a return on your investment vs a new KS from someone unknown. There are some things that throw up red flags but overall most the community working together are able to sort through them. Then you determine if you want to invest for a later return.

I could definitely get a higher return but I'm not out to make a lot of money. I just want to make enough to continue turning around and supporting other games. I like having options and there have been times where I didn't want something, sold it, but then later on my group was interested. There are also times that you can sell all the Exclusives which cover your initial pledge and still come out ahead because you have the regular game and/or miniatures, minus exclusives.

 Dark Severance wrote:
I ended up doing Shadowrun: Hong Kong but I probably won't be backing anymore software Kickstarters for awhile. They tend to be more riskier and take longer delays than miniatures KS on average. At least with miniatures/board games KS I have more room to resale or trade for something else if I decide I don't really like it.

On the other hand, software KS's often have a much lower 'sweet spot' if all you want is the game. $10-20 generally isn't too bad for getting a digital download, and as long as you avoid physical items that's about all you pay. Granted, if it's coming out on Steam or another distribution service, you probably aren't saving much either, but I don't mind pitching in a little once in a while for things like Shadowrun.

With Miniatures you theoretically might be getting a good ROI/Value, but at a much higher sweet spot, usually around $100-150 or so, and if you're international that can tack on another $20-50+ in shipping and possibly even more once it hits the border. My group paid $100 US in shipping for our stuff and got hit for another $35 for wave 1.

Yes, KS's of all sorts are often late, but that can be offset with quality communication as to *why* it's happening and what is being done to rectify that. Contrasting the first Shadowrun campaign (~8 months late, I believe?) where I felt like there was tangible progress made, with the Robotech Campaign I often mock, which delivered wave 1 a year late (for North America. Australia, Europe and ROW are more like 1.5 years late for wave one) and wave 2 is a big question mark that they have spent months teasing a teaser for, as it were. The current target is half a year from now and from what little we've seen I doubt it'll show before 2016 unless they actually finally start providing evidence of progress.

At this point I'm kind of tapped out as well, and it'll take something pretty damned amazing to get a 'big' contribution out of me (more than, say, $50 or so).

Except Dwarven Forge. Those guys deliver a great product in a timely fashion. Unstoppable KS badasses right there.

 Forar wrote:
On the other hand, software KS's often have a much lower 'sweet spot' if all you want is the game. $10-20 generally isn't too bad for getting a digital download, and as long as you avoid physical items that's about all you pay. Granted, if it's coming out on Steam or another distribution service, you probably aren't saving much either, but I don't mind pitching in a little once in a while for things like Shadowrun.

I really like the Shadowrun games, the only thing I think they missed out on was allowing cooperative play. My wife likes the games but she prefers we were able to actually play together. Shadowrun Chronicles is now doing that but I would have preferred to continue using my Shadowrun Returns or had some continuity with them, not to mention I prefer the SR system more. SC is getting better and has come a pretty good ways.

Yes definitely most games have a lower entry point. A couple software games I put in quite a bit more because I wanted to see the games develop. The progress is slower than expected but they are still coming along. Unfortunately because of the delays I've lost interest currently so haven't been following as closely, that may change. The other issue with games is you usually can't sell them or offload them to break even, unlike board games and miniatures. I have done a few gadgets and tech projects as well, so far they have been fine.

There is definitely a higher dollar amount to reach the sweet spot with board games and miniatures.

I looked over my spreadsheet, I'm at about 150 projects backed between my two accounts, although technically one is my wife's but to be fair all the purchases and pledges have been made by me. I have stuff coming in about once a month and probably will well into 2016. My wife says I only do this because it feels like Christmas every other week to come home to find packages and you go "Wonder which project this is".

 BrookM wrote:
I wouldn't consider a KS a great investment if all you're in for is reselling it.

I think one can potentially double their money on the "sweet spot" pledge of a high value KS. That is, put $100 + S&H into a KS, gross $250+, net $100-ish after fees. Something like that, depending on fees and such. If you look at it over a 1-year term, it's a pretty good rate of return that justifies the financial risk. If you're looking to sell extras and exclusives for beer money, it's not bad at all - I think one could self-sustain a <$1k/yr hobby this way.

The thing is, it doesn't scale as a proper business. You wouldn't drop $25k because there just aren't enough high quality KS to back, and concentrating the money would kill the exclusivity of the "exclusives", reducing the net return. You can put a single copy on eBay and sell it at a decent profit, but you can't put 50 identical copies up without competing against yourself. I don't think you could cover rent and food this way - you need to eat and pay rent every month, but those variable delivery delays would break you. And if they don't deliver a la Imbrian Arts, you're totally screwed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dark Severance wrote:
I looked over my spreadsheet, I'm at about 150 projects backed between my two accounts, although technically one is my wife's but to be fair all the purchases and pledges have been made by me. I have stuff coming in about once a month and probably will well into 2016. My wife says I only do this because it feels like Christmas every other week to come home to find packages and you go "Wonder which project this is".

A hundred and fifty projects? I've backed barely a dozen, and already feeling like maybe I'm getting in over my head. Where are you keeping 150 projects worth of stuff? Full basement?

The Christmas thing is real. I got excited when SDE:FK and Z3 arrived. It's kinda magical.

I cannot wait to see how giant my KD:M package is going to be when that finally arrives on my doorstep!

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
A hundred and fifty projects? I've backed barely a dozen, and already feeling like maybe I'm getting in over my head. Where are you keeping 150 projects worth of stuff? Full basement?

The Christmas thing is real. I got excited when SDE:FK and Z3 arrived. It's kinda magical.

I cannot wait to see how giant my KD:M package is going to be when that finally arrives on my doorstep!

About 16 of the KS would fit into clothing, electronic games and gadgets so they don't take up a lot of room.

I have two large Billy bookcases from IKEA that houses my board games, TCG, and card games. I could probably put half the KS board games on half of one of the bookcases for things like Arcadia Quest, SDE, Krosmaster, Khaosball, etc. The rest of the board games are from working conventions and demo work that I've obtained over the years. They get loaned out depending on who needs them. That reminds me that I need to create a better checkout system for loaning games out. I've provided games for demos and convention use at Kumoricon, Sakuracon, Gamestorm, Portland's ComicCon, etc.

I have another Billy bookcases that holds my miniatures, paints and supplies. Painted ones get moved to display case (they aren't that good, but I don't like to always put them in storage) or into game cases or boxes for when we play. Ones that need to be primed and base coated set out on the workstation in the garage for airbrushing. Ones that need to be assembled are on a couple trays from Michaels, so I can move them on and off the shelf but keep them grouped together. Then I have a couple plastic storage bins that set various groups: needs to be assembled, needs to be cleaned, needs touch up work (gap filling, sanding, mold line removal).

The terrain is taking over though, the wife did yell at me about my terrain taking up too much space. Once assembled there is a lot more that needs primed and painted but it takes up vastly more room than miniatures do. I loaned out my Pop-Up Terrain kit to my friends who do D&D games. I loaned out Battle Systems to another group for their RPG sessions, although I may take that back for use for Imperial Assault now.

There is quite a bit which I have been going through and finally starting to decide what to keep, what I'm not going to get around too and making the choice of just getting rid of. There are a few games that I have previously gotten rid of, but then later the family started to take interest so I had to get the games again (Zombicide for example). The kids are starting to develop their own interests so it makes it easier to now figure out what they like, don't like to get a better idea of what we'll play as a family. I do have a couple shelves in the walk in closet which I call the EBay shelf. I need to go through take pictures, update my lists for trades and wants though. Unfortunately time has become a lot less available than it was 1 1/2 years ago, so a lot of KS I planned on playing I know won't get game time so they get put on the sell list.

I have actually cut back quite a bit. I have a couple shelves to unload first before I'm allowed to pick up new stuff.

I back quite a lot and while the first flush of excitement is gone I still find it an entertaining game

If the backers actually manage to put together a solid community the comments can be a fun place to hang out and chat (eg mierce, impact miniatures, reaper), although others soon become places you would not want to even visit

and you can get neat new shiney stuff,

sometimes it's a boardgame from CMON or similar that would have happened anyway, but you get a bunch of fun exclusive bits for backing

sometimes it's stuff that just would not have got made without your backing, you may well not save anything much but without KS there would be nothing to buy (eg Olleys Armies)

You don't even need to spend loads if you just want to help out a small campaign either because you like the company/people involved or hope to buy it at retail sometime in the future, that $1 or $5 pledge plus a bit of forum or social media effort does really make a difference,

you don't just have to chase the big projects

and most especially don't depend on KS projects delivering on time (although some do), if you need it for a certain date, rather than at some abstract time in the future steer clear, because once you start being bitter/jittery about project A it will sour you over project B & C etc (even if they are not being nearly as rubbish)

and finally don't pledge what you aren't prepared to loose, because sometimes what you get might not be what you expected (Sedition Wars for many although I was mostly happy with it), sometimes the communications and timescale are just terrible (Relic Knights and Raging Heroes, I'm looking at you) and sometimes the company folds and you loose it all (Cairn, CSM, Defiance Games)

but after all the doom and gloom it's just so cool and exciting and fun when a KS delivers really cool stuff to your door to play/build/game with, a box of Mierce resin, SDE Forgotten King, Arcadia Quest, enough minis to drown yourself in from Reaper Bones, or a handful of little chibi ponies from Impact miniatures, you helped make it happen, you mattered (more or less depending on the company)

@DS - OK, that makes sense. Thanks!

I'm feeling a bit burnt out on them too TBH. I'll back ones for small amounts now, but I'm too overloaded to take on new "100+ minis for $100" pledges.

Fulfillment-wise I actually have nearly all of mine (at least that I should have).

I've done:
First Mantic KoW - sold nearly the entirety of it. Disappointing quality on the Basileans.
Relic Knights - just for the SDE stuff. Late. Complete. Very happy with it though.
Kingdom Death: Monster - My only big disappointment so far, as it's so late I've kinda lost interest.
Rivet Wars: Went big - have it all. Very nice. Worried about how much will be in the next one.
Tablescapes: Secret Weapon - late, but have it. Also nice.
Warmachine Tactics: Delivered. Minis were great, game less so. But I (like most, I suspect) mainly wanted the minis.
Reaper II: Small pledge, sold almost the entirety of it.
SDE: TK: Went big. Partially delivered. Wave 2 should be arriving soonish. Extremely pleased so far.

IndieGoGo:
Freebooter's Fate: Very prompt. The most on-time delivery.
Avatars of War: Very, very late - pledged only for the BSB. Delivered.
*Figone: Actually this one was probably the most on time. Forgot about it because it was mainly just a book. Though did come with 2 minis too.

So only 3 have been especially late. But only one of them remains unfulfilled.

*Left out the Figone campaign, as I was thinking mostly in terms of minis.

I am burnt out on Kickstarter. My first Kickstarter was Zombicide 1, and I was really bitten hard by the Kickstarter bug afterward. I gotta say, a well run campaign is a lot of fun to participate in and I don't think I'll ever be able to replicate the fun I had with Z1's campaign. The excitement of seeing a new stretch goal reached, having new goals announced, and all of the back and forth between project creators and backers was compelling. Oh, and the exclusives! I love exclusive miniatures, so being able to pledge for those was great. I eventually learned that not all campaigns were like Z1, and the more campaigns I participated in the more I realized the interim period between pledging and receiving any goods eventually began to sour the KS experience for me. Often the delays would result in the project I was planning around the pledge to change or be dropped all together making the pledged item(s) unnecessary. After that occurred a few times I realized that I'd rather forgo the exclusives and delays, and just wait for stuff to show up for retail purchase. Exclusives can be found on eBay or on trading sites, and I don't mind compensating someone else for their patience in dealing with the fulfillment period by paying more for the exclusive than the KS price.

Unless a project is completely unique or groundbreaking, I just can't see myself pledging for anything anytime soon.



My KS list:

Zombicide 1- delivered, pleased with pledge, sold majority for HUGE profit after my gaming group disolved

Dreamforge - delivered, late, buyers remorse caused me to sell all but a few models

Mimic Miniatures - I never filled out my survey, no longer care about receiving reward

Table War Mini Case - delivered on time (or close to), pleased with pledge

Tablescapes - late, pleased with pledge but killed Kickstarter for me.

Olleys Armies Steampunk Scrunts - delivered on time, one of the best campaigns I have participated in

Frontline Gaming/Table War Mat - delivered close to on time, buyers remorse due to storage issue with the mat.

Creature Caster - delayed, buyers remorse as I am no longer working on the project this model was intended for *forgot I even pledged for this campaign until reading this thread*

Krieg Dwarves - delivered close to on time, pleased with my pledge

Salvage Crew - delivered on time, flawless campaign, pleased with my pledge

Tavern Dungeon Decor - waiting for my pledge (shipping now), likely another flawless campaign like the Salvage Crew.

I'm not going to list the Kickstarters here that I've backed because I'd look like an addict or something; let's just say that my wife had to stage an intervention.

 agnosto wrote:
I'm not going to list the Kickstarters here that I've backed because I'd look like an addict or something; let's just say that my wife had to stage an intervention.

Dude, uncool! You can't drop a bomb like that and just walk away without any details.

Revel in your addiction and the subsequent intervention!

Wow, I am impressed the support people have given to so many projects.

I am not into Kickstarters as much but if some developer thinks of an idea that I agree there is nothing comparable in the market and I want to see it: it gets my support.
I have one requirement on that: I want to see some kind of plan, broad strokes of the resources they lined up to make it real.
I have seen too many ideas with no facts get floated around and then the developer is all surprised they failed and have no clue... drives me nuts.

I have reached a bit of a saturation point of what games I can effectively play and store with any commitment to play in the next few years so I can afford to be REALLY picky.
I am not as concerned about selling things off, when hobby stuff gets in my clutches, there is little hope of escape... ask my wife of the scary man-cave (more like storage crate).

I cleaned up my first post and added a poll, as people love polls...

My KS use went way up this year. Backed both Deadlands KS, the new TGG, and a KS for western combat maps.

I wish there were more I wanted to back.