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This is tactics, but life tactics.

Step 1: burn all pages with wraith units on them. Yes, even the plane. D weapons dont make friends.

Step 2: take autarchs and/or warlocks, so people don't ragequit when your farseer miraculously rerolls all his failed psychic dice. Also the spiritseer was technically a wraith unit, and is only really effective when backed up by wraith units, so ignore it.

Step 3: use guardians and rangers. Jetbikes have too much ragequit potential.

Step 4: aspect warriors have easily counterable abilities, making them good but not too cheesy, so use them, but not use so many that you have a solution for everything

Step 5: throw in some squishy units like a single war walker, to make the enemy think he's doing well

Step 6: deep strike EVERYTHING. Or at least all that you can. Why? You tend to have a good laugh when your unit of falcon tanks goes flying off the board.

Step 7: give up and play dark eldar instead.

Ok, so this was obviously made for a bit of fun, but on a more serious note, i've been playing eldar for years, and i am horrified at the new codex. It is really the 'i have no friends' codex. I mean, it brings shame to people who have been playing eldar for years because they use the 'cheesiest and most op army'. Next time you play someone who has eldar.... Take all their wraith units and smash them into a fine plastic dust.

I think the things that make the most un-fun armies are the unkillable ones.

So whilst it has some insane killing potential, it doesn't have any specifically resilient options, so its kind of friendly.

monte wrote:

Step 2: take autarchs and/or warlocks, so people don't ragequit when your farseer miraculously rerolls all his failed psychic dice.

Chaos Space Marine Sorcerers get to do this with all dice on every power and have done so for years now. No one cared then, they aren't allowed to care now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

monte wrote:

Step 6: deep strike EVERYTHING. Or at least all that you can. Why? You tend to have a good laugh when your unit of falcon tanks goes flying off the board.

The only means Falcons have of Deep Striking also prevents them from scattering.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

monte wrote:

Step 2: take autarchs and/or warlocks, so people don't ragequit when your farseer miraculously rerolls all his failed psychic dice.

Chaos Space Marine Sorcerers get to do this with all dice on every power and have done so for years now. No one cared then, they aren't allowed to care now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

monte wrote:

Step 6: deep strike EVERYTHING. Or at least all that you can. Why? You tend to have a good laugh when your unit of falcon tanks goes flying off the board.

The only means Falcons have of Deep Striking also prevents them from scattering.

Its the powers they get to pick from that gets the crying, not the new chaos familiar clone ability.

Was this made with a serious examination of the new Eldar Craftworld codex, or a cursory glance at the rumor threads or Bols?

There have been plenty of other guides about how to play Eldar in a fair manner for more casual/semi-competitive metas. We didn't need another one, much less a borderline troll like this one.

The problems with the Eldar codex have been discussed to death. It would be better if there was a thread about how other armies can counter Eldar in general.

I'd say the best way to run eldar and keep your friends is to not duplicate anything.

Troops? Take a unit of storm guardians, defenders, rangers, dire avengers, and 1 unit of bikes.
Aspect Warriors? Smaller squads, and again don't duplicate.

Then Skip the Wraith Knight, and don't take D-Scythes or heavy D-Scythes.

You can still have a decently strong army, without delivering a spammed Knock Out punch on turn 1.

Razerous wrote:
I think the things that make the most un-fun armies are the unkillable ones.

So whilst it has some insane killing potential, it doesn't have any specifically resilient options, so its kind of friendly.

*Cough* Wraithknight *Cough*

 Zagman wrote:

Razerous wrote:
I think the things that make the most un-fun armies are the unkillable ones.

So whilst it has some insane killing potential, it doesn't have any specifically resilient options, so its kind of friendly.

*Cough* Wraithknight *Cough*

Yeah, had to fight a seer bike council with 2+ armor, 3+ invul and re-rolls on the saves. Warlocks had Protect, Farseer had fortune, other seer had Sanctic for the +1 invul power.
It was comically stupidly invulnerable. He joked if he had more points he would add another seer and fish for invisibility.

-Matt

 TheNewBlood wrote:

The problems with the Eldar codex have been discussed to death. It would be better if there was a thread about how other armies can counter Eldar in general.

How other armies counter Eldar:
Wait till they get their own

 koooaei wrote:

 TheNewBlood wrote:

The problems with the Eldar codex have been discussed to death. It would be better if there was a thread about how other armies can counter Eldar in general.

How other armies counter Eldar:
Wait till they get their own

Or just play using Counts as Eldar rules.

 Lammikkovalas wrote:

 koooaei wrote:

 TheNewBlood wrote:

The problems with the Eldar codex have been discussed to death. It would be better if there was a thread about how other armies can counter Eldar in general.

How other armies counter Eldar:
Wait till they get their own

Or just play using Counts as Eldar rules.

The problem is that this creates an arms race, where the only outcome is that the game approaches a critical mass where there are certain inherently overpowered armies (the ones that were updated) and certain inherently underpowered armies (the ones that aren't, or aren't boosted up in power).

I don't believe that Eldar are an inherently overpowered army. Neither are Necrons, or Skitarii/Mechanicus (even with their new giant formation of doom, death, destruction, free unit upgrades, and other words beginning with the letter "d").

The problem is that there are overpowered options in certain armies. It's a matter of players choosing not to use those options outside of a competitive environment/meta, and limiting those options in competitions.

Does being overpowered in 2-d, 3-d, 4-th, 6-th and 7-th count as inherently overpowered?

 koooaei wrote:
Does being overpowered in 2-d, 3-d, 4-th, 6-th and 7-th count as inherently overpowered?

Of course not! These are just coincidences and have nothing to do with each other. Nothing to see here citizen, move along.

BTW, I think that the new Skitarii & Cult Mech and Knight formation has the potential of being waaaaaay more ridiculously broken than Eldar. And Kataphron Destroyers? 18 grav shots at 30" for 155 pts? Sounds pretty balanced.

 Lammikkovalas wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Does being overpowered in 2-d, 3-d, 4-th, 6-th and 7-th count as inherently overpowered?

Of course not! These are just coincidences and have nothing to do with each other. Nothing to see here citizen, move along.

BTW, I think that the new Skitarii & Cult Mech and Knight formation has the potential of being waaaaaay more ridiculously broken than Eldar. And Kataphron Destroyers? 18 grav shots at 30" for 155 pts? Sounds pretty balanced.

Pity a stiff breeze blows the kataphrons over.

 Crazyterran wrote:

 Lammikkovalas wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Does being overpowered in 2-d, 3-d, 4-th, 6-th and 7-th count as inherently overpowered?

Of course not! These are just coincidences and have nothing to do with each other. Nothing to see here citizen, move along.

BTW, I think that the new Skitarii & Cult Mech and Knight formation has the potential of being waaaaaay more ridiculously broken than Eldar. And Kataphron Destroyers? 18 grav shots at 30" for 155 pts? Sounds pretty balanced.

Pity a stiff breeze blows the kataphrons over.

Chances are that there won't be much of a breeze left with that kind of firepower. I do agree that their stats aren't much to write home about when excluding the weapons.

 koooaei wrote:
Does being overpowered in 2-d, 3-d, 4-th, 6-th and 7-th count as inherently overpowered?

That was a matter of overpowered units, not the army as a whole. Earlier editions had Starcannons. 6th edition had the Wave Serpent and the undercosted Wraithknight. The new codex has Scatbikers, ridiculously undercosted Wraithknights, and the access to D weapons on certain units.

This problem is not exclusive to Eldar. There are plenty of other overpowered units in other codexes, such as Flyrants and Riptides and Centstar. Nobody says that Tyranids or Space Marines or Tau (okay, perhaps not Tau) are inherently overpowered. Why should Eldar be any different?

Actual tactic for making and keeping friends: be nice.

Hamstringing or Handicaping yourself or not giving 100% is an insult to your seasoned opponent. Insulting your opponent is NOT nice. Be nice.

Bring any codex Eldar list. Let me play Unbound. We will both have a good time.

There are some people it is insulting to. Others that prefer it. Knowing the difference can be hard.

My short list?
- CAD. No Formations.
- If its not a Troop choice, max 1
- Windriders stick to 1 per 3
- No WK. Maybe if you looove the model, take 1. In large games. And further gimp yourself elsewhere.
- No DE tools for Wraith units
- Don't stick two ICs in the same squad

Follow those, and your list should be fine. I'm sure you can bring the cheese while technically meeting it, but its unlikely to happen inadvertantly.

1 in 3 isn't particularly practical if you want to be WYSIWYG and able to participate in tournaments. I'm personally going to go with scatbikes being a 0-1 choice. Are there really any other problem units in the Codex besides them and the Wraithknight? As for the WK, I'd say the easiest solution here is to just decide with your opponent if you want to use Lords of War. I'm not going to bring a Wraithknight for every game, but if I'm facing a Stompa or three Imperial Knights I won't feel bad about it. Definitely another 0-1 though.

As for 'no DE tools', I'm going to go one further and say 'no allies', for anyone! They're usually unfluffy, silly and mechanically unbalancing anyway, and as an Eldar player I now suddenly have leverage when negotiating for a 'no allies' game.

I love using Allies as mechanics for team games.

Within my lists, its always been SM, Tau, or Eldar. Never a mix of them. But they frequently ally with other players.

However, my Eldar is frequently a CW CAD plus Harlies or Corsairs. Things like those or Demons/CSM, or GK/IG/Inq seems reasonable.

I'm much more lenient if the combo makes sense fluffwise and isn't too abusive. If I were to redo the allies chart I'd get rid of both desperate allies and come the apocalypse, and move battle brothers and allies of convenience down one on the penalties (effectively getting rid of both unfluffy army combos and abusive unit mixing).

Bharring wrote:
There are some people it is insulting to. Others that prefer it. Knowing the difference can be hard.

My short list?
- CAD. No Formations.
- If its not a Troop choice, max 1
- Windriders stick to 1 per 3
- No WK. Maybe if you looove the model, take 1. In large games. And further gimp yourself elsewhere.
- No DE tools for Wraith units
- Don't stick two ICs in the same squad

Follow those, and your list should be fine. I'm sure you can bring the cheese while technically meeting it, but its unlikely to happen inadvertantly.

While I agree with most of those points, I personally think that the formations in the Eldar book are fine. The Wraith formation's biggest problem is the weapons they use. Change them back to 6th edition Distort and they're fine. The reason people complain about the formations is that not all codexes have been updated to 7th so that they have formations and alternate detachments.

I can see why people would want to avoid the deathstars resulting from lots of ICs together to avoid the Seer Council of Doom (TM), but that's only a problem if they're on jetbikes. Keep them on their feet and you have an excellent Ulthwe army core.

 TheNewBlood wrote:
The Wraith formation's biggest problem is the weapons they use. Change them back to 6th edition Distort and they're fine.

No, that would make them too weak. There is absolutely no point in taking Wraithguard over Fire Dragons if they're S10. A walking unit of 1-wound, no-unvil blokes with a 12" gun really isn't a problem for any competent general. Again, the problem is allies. When you can suddenly stick them in open-topped transports or deep strike them without scatter, then they become overpowered. Footslogging across the table, or in an expensive, closed transport that's easily taken out by a couple of krak grenades up the rear hatch? I can deal with that.

I could be convinced that the heavy wraithcannons should have been priced a bit higher though.

Okapi wrote:

 TheNewBlood wrote:
The Wraith formation's biggest problem is the weapons they use. Change them back to 6th edition Distort and they're fine.

No, that would make them too weak. There is absolutely no point in taking Wraithguard over Fire Dragons if they're S10. A walking unit of 1-wound, no-unvil blokes with a 12" gun really isn't a problem for any competent general. Again, the problem is allies. When you can suddenly stick them in open-topped transports or deep strike them without scatter, then they become overpowered. Footslogging across the table, or in an expensive, closed transport that's easily taken out by a couple of krak grenades up the rear hatch? I can deal with that.

I could be convinced that the heavy wraithcannons should have been priced a bit higher though.

Even with the old Distort rules, Wraithguard are still quite strong. The big benefit for them is taking the Wraith formation to give them Battle Focus; then they turn into much tougher and more powerful Fire Dragons.

Wraithguard are bad when footslogging, yes, but a Wave Serpent does a lot for their mobility and survivability. And it's still the best dedicated transport in the game. And with its mobility, getting into CC with it is a lot harder than one would imagine, especially if it has troops inside to protect it.

I do agree that putting them in a raider with an Archon is ridiculous; IMO battle brothers should not be able to ride in each others' transports.

Wraithguard were not competitive at all last edition. Again, Fire Dragons did a better job for half the points. For Wraithguard to see any use their guns have to be better than meltaguns, and D is the obvious solution. T3 or T6 doesn't make all that much of a difference; this is an alpha strike unit, which will be dead in one turn regardless.

Again, the problem is the delivery method. Wave Serpents and foot slogging give both the Eldar player and his opponent a challenge. A no-scatter deep strike is just a kill switch requiring no skill to utilize, and no level of careful planning can mitigate it.

 TheNewBlood wrote:
Was this made with a serious examination of the new Eldar Craftworld codex, or a cursory glance at the rumor threads or Bols?

There have been plenty of other guides about how to play Eldar in a fair manner for more casual/semi-competitive metas. We didn't need another one, much less a borderline troll like this one.

The problems with the Eldar codex have been discussed to death. It would be better if there was a thread about how other armies can counter Eldar in general.

Borderline troll is giving this too much credit

Yes, we get it, Eldar are 2 OP 4 lief, Eldar players are bad and they should feel bad, you're objectively a worse human being for fielding wraithguard or jetbikes, etc etc ad nauseum for all time, apparently. Did the OP think the internet had forgotten about the new codex? It's been the subject of like every third thread since the book came out. You're preaching to the choir - it's not brave to say the Eldar are broken, nor is it news.

This horse isn't just dead. It's been buried, decomposed, fossilized, dug up, and put back together for display in a museum.

 Jambles wrote:

 TheNewBlood wrote:
Was this made with a serious examination of the new Eldar Craftworld codex, or a cursory glance at the rumor threads or Bols?

There have been plenty of other guides about how to play Eldar in a fair manner for more casual/semi-competitive metas. We didn't need another one, much less a borderline troll like this one.

The problems with the Eldar codex have been discussed to death. It would be better if there was a thread about how other armies can counter Eldar in general.

Borderline troll is giving this too much credit

Yes, we get it, Eldar are 2 OP 4 lief, Eldar players are bad and they should feel bad, you're objectively a worse human being for fielding wraithguard or jetbikes, etc etc ad nauseum for all time, apparently. Did the OP think the internet had forgotten about the new codex? It's been the subject of like every third thread since the book came out. You're preaching to the choir - it's not brave to say the Eldar are broken, nor is it news.

This horse isn't just dead. It's been buried, decomposed, fossilized, dug up, and put back together for display in a museum.

Have an exalt, good sir. You made my day and /thread. At least now there aren't as many complaints about Necrons or AdMech.