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While the subject of Space Marines longevity is wide open for debate, we know one thing for shure. The eldest Space Marines, not in a dreadnought, is Dante and he his around a 1000 years old which in the eyes of most Space Marines is a ridiculous amount of time. Ortan Cassius is the eldest Ultramarine and he is nearly 400. Logan Grimnar is around 750 years old. A human transformation into a Space Marines ends around the age of 18 to 20 years old. So that means there is a lot of Space Marines who are in their teens, early twenties and thirties. But what about the average age of the members of the Adepetus Astartes. Personnaly I would be tempted to say between 100 to 150 as an average age for most Marines. What do you think?

To me that seems like a fair estimate, though my knowledge for SM fluff is not the best source for information

100-150 is certainly already a 1st Company Veteran or Sergeant. The outliers are seen as incredibly old by other marines, and when the Head Chaplain of the Chapter of Chapters, the UM, Cassius, is barely 400 and calls his Chapter Master "Young Calgar"...

If we assume veterans are around the 150 mark, then that's still going to be way above average. We have to factor in 8 other companies full of younger marines, and then another company that's even younger than that. How many Space Marines simply become cannon fodder in the honour of the Emperor?

I think it will be exceptional for them to live past 75 considering all the conflict they face. Those that do, end up in the first company and have access to better armour and war gear so end up living even longer.

18-20 year old Space Marines? I'm sure I remember reading in a codex, or maybe the rulebook fluff section (this was years ago, mind), that the multi-stage augmentation of a recruite into a full Marine - including implants and growth times - was the best part of a century. I have a clear (ish) memory of making a point of that nature to my little brother once when he asked me why all the Marines under their helms were old men.

Anyway, was this retconned? Am I just misremembering the fluff?

 Anfauglir wrote:
18-20 year old Space Marines? I'm sure I remember reading in a codex, or maybe the rulebook fluff section (this was years ago, mind), that the multi-stage augmentation of a recruite into a full Marine - including implants and growth times - was the best part of a century. I have a clear (ish) memory of making a point of that nature to my little brother once when he asked me why all the Marines under their helms were old men.

Anyway, was this retconned? Am I just misremembering the fluff?

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Creation_of_a_Space_Marine

They're 18ish by the time they receive their final implants, including the Black Carapace, which marks the transition from Scout to Battle-Brother. This would mean that, yes, there are a lot of Space Marines who are younger than the average 40K player.

Depends on where they are as well.

Your average Devastator marine is going to be the youngest of the lot, outside of the Scout Company. That's where new marines generally go, bullet catchers for the heavy weapon squads.

Your tactical and assault marines are going to be older, I'd reckon that your youngest tactical marine would probably be around 40ish. So that's 20 years in the Scouts and Devastator squads.

I reckon 100-150ish?

Veteran status is often just as much if not more due to deeds than actual veterancy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Psienesis wrote:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Creation_of_a_Space_Marine

Mind you, the timespan you refer to is taken from the Compendium, which is written for first edition.

First edition Astartes were quite different from the ones we know and love today.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Veteran status is often just as much if not more due to deeds than actual veterancy.

But how many died trying to do those deeds? The oldest UM is barely 400 and the youngest in full Power Armor is 18 - what's the attrition rate between those two points? There's a reason they mention Dante, Ulrik, Grimnar and the like - they really are exceptionally old to not have caught some rokkit-to-the-face syndrome. Marines don't die of old age simply because they never get to try it. And the fluff does support that part - every other background battle is 100 went in against horrendous odds, less than 10 came back.

Your average Eisenhorn-level Inquisitor (OK, exceptional Inquisitor) will be 350 and look like a man in his 40s, and can expect to live another 350 years thanks to rejuvenat treatments. It's probably very rare even for an Inquisitor of such age and power to meet a marine older than that. Not impossible as he's likely to deal with Captains and Chapter Masters, but still improbable.

Even Gregor Eisenhorn, at 400-something years old now, looks (and feels!) old. While he's living "off the grid" and all, he can still make use of his prodigious resources to get whatever treatments he wants... but 700+ is rare for any human outside of the AdMech (who cheat by becoming robots), other than a Space Marine....

... but, indeed. The casualty rate between 18 and 400 probably exceeds 80%. Those who do survive will probably sport one or more augmetic systems, to replace that which was lost in battle. or be interred in a Dreadnought sarcophagus

 Ashiraya wrote:
I reckon 100-150ish?

Veteran status is often just as much if not more due to deeds than actual veterancy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Psienesis wrote:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Creation_of_a_Space_Marine

Mind you, the timespan you refer to is taken from the Compendium, which is written for first edition.

First edition Astartes were quite different from the ones we know and love today.

Actually there was a discussion over on the Facebook Oldhammer board recently in which Andy Hoare stated the studio still regards the 1st edition article as canon.

The 3rd edition Index Astartes article was mostly a copy-paste job, including the implantation age.

 Psienesis wrote:
... but, indeed. The casualty rate between 18 and 400 probably exceeds 80%. Those who do survive will probably sport one or more augmetic systems, to replace that which was lost in battle. or be interred in a Dreadnought sarcophagus

In the UM case it seems there's at least 999 marines younger than 400. And they lost the entire 1st Company (and lots of others) fighting the Tyranids, a disproportionate number of veterans lost. Not that it seems to be a very odd occurence - the Blood Angels were once all but destroyed with only some 50 marines surviving. I suspect none of the survivors were of Dante's recruitment pool. Don't they say his rise to Commander and deeds done are now legends even to his own Chapter? He's trapped in his own future, all the people he grew up with long since gone. I imagine that could be even worse for your survival than any purely biological matter.

simple math did the trick on this one.

Assuming 1st company veterans are roughly 130 years old, members of the scout company average 20, Devastator company averages 30, assault company averages 40, both tactical reserve companies average 50, and each battle company averages 70, then the average Space Marine (ignoring HQ members and sergeants) is 60. Seriously just add all the total averages of each company which comes out to 600 and divide the result by how many companies there are, which is 10.

A lot of people think 100 is the average age but honestly, it's hard to get to that age without dying and those who do reach will become sergeants or placed in the 1st company. Also, nobody knows if Space Marines can die of old age and why? Because no marine has lived long enough to find out.

Here's a thing to consider.

A Service Stud is earned for a century of service - so, 120 years of age assuming the upper end for final implantation.

Force Commanders, where they're a thing (not often these days) are generally veteran Marines who are effectively brevet Captains put in charge of an ad-hoc formation.

Force Commanders are usually shown with two service studs, making them around 220. This is someone who is pretty much one casualty away from being a Captain, the second highest rank in the chapter.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Here's a thing to consider.

A Service Stud is earned for a century of service - so, 120 years of age assuming the upper end for final implantation.

Force Commanders, where they're a thing (not often these days) are generally veteran Marines who are effectively brevet Captains put in charge of an ad-hoc formation.

Force Commanders are usually shown with two service studs, making them around 220. This is someone who is pretty much one casualty away from being a Captain, the second highest rank in the chapter.

Service studs do not always suggest 100 years of service. Depending on the design, service studs can represent 10, 50 and 100 years of service. Marines sporting two studs are probably over 100 years old, the two studs representing 50 years.

It probably depends on the nature of the chapter as well.
Some Chapters take their recruits at a later age, and others may have a longer training process before a aspirant is judged ready or require more time in the scout company before progressing.

For UM style chapters (which is the majority), Lord Tarkin's bit of math seems pretty accurate.

Tarkin's numbers seem generally right, and we would expect different chapters to have variations (e.g., Ultramarines might recruits later and spend more time training recruits, and Blood Angels veterans might be older than average).

The SM codex mentions that Chaplain Cassius is over 400 years old, and that this age is exceptional even among the upper echelons of chapter leadership (he calls Calgar "young Calgar", but it's not clear how much older than Calgar he is).

GW is kinda wishy-washy about these sort of numbers. We know Tu'Shan is young for a chapter master, we know Logan is old for a chapter master, but we don't have hard numbers on how old either of them are. It does seem reasonable to me that the youngest Battle Brothers would be quite young. If they recruit them when they're 10, and then spend the next ten years in brutally intense training (with a high dropout/death rate) then you would have very highly skilled warriors by age 20.

 Anfauglir wrote:
18-20 year old Space Marines? I'm sure I remember reading in a codex, or maybe the rulebook fluff section (this was years ago, mind), that the multi-stage augmentation of a recruite into a full Marine - including implants and growth times - was the best part of a century. I have a clear (ish) memory of making a point of that nature to my little brother once when he asked me why all the Marines under their helms were old men.

Anyway, was this retconned? Am I just misremembering the fluff?

No, it was always completed around the age of 18-20. Assuming the recruit was 10-12 when he was first chosen.

At the very least, once a marine is 18-20 all the implant stages will have been completed except the Black Carapace, which is only done when he is made a full space marine. Which can be delayed if the chapter doesn't have any openings(although this will almost never occur)

As for why marines might appear older. Well, all the special characters are pretty old, a couple hundred minimum. And sergeants, the most commonly depicted without helmets, will be older veterans.

Not to mention the fact that stress and war age people visibly, even if they remain fighting fit. Fighting under the rabid suns of a thousand worlds will carve deep lines into a hero's face and tan his skin like leather.

I bet the transformation process is pretty physically stressful too.

Yep, most aspirants die, even though the process piggy-backs and subverts puberty to even work in the first place.

The 2 main protagonists in the Dawn of War (1st) novel are more than 100 years old. The author states it specifically. And I think there is a Chaplain of Blood Ravens with more than 3000years? Too many names to remember and the book is at home.

Alepous wrote:
The 2 main protagonists in the Dawn of War (1st) novel are more than 100 years old. The author states it specifically. And I think there is a Chaplain of Blood Ravens with more than 3000years? Too many names to remember and the book is at home.

Mind you, that is CS Goto.

While his works are technically canon, you should keep in mind he also writes about killing grav-tanks by throwing stones and backflipping Terminators.

 Ashiraya wrote:

Mind you, that is CS Goto.

While his works are technically canon, you should keep in mind he also writes about killing grav-tanks by throwing stones and backflipping Terminators.

Yep I am at a point where I want to stop reading the book because some parts are so ridiculus.

I recall that each stud a Marine has implanted into his head indicates 100yrs of service.

 shasolenzabi wrote:
I recall that each stud a Marine has implanted into his head indicates 100yrs of service.

Or some other number - a stud could be 10, 50 or 100 years. It all depends on the Chapter anyways - Space Wolves might be happy to have iron studs in their forehead but Blood Angels most certainly would not.

Spetulhu wrote:

 shasolenzabi wrote:
I recall that each stud a Marine has implanted into his head indicates 100yrs of service.

Or some other number - a stud could be 10, 50 or 100 years. It all depends on the Chapter anyways - Space Wolves might be happy to have iron studs in their forehead but Blood Angels most certainly would not.

Ah yes, the Blood Angels would be afraid to mar their pretty faces

Now now. There's nothing wrong with wanting to look fabulous on the front lines.

 General Kroll wrote:
Now now. There's nothing wrong with wanting to look fabulous on the front lines.

I almost wish to sig this.

Games Workshop is notorious for needing proof readers. Cassius calls Calgar young, Marneus Calgar was CM at the Battle for Macragge, that was 250 years ago. So Calgar was less than 100 when he was elected Chapter Master?
I've always thought Cassius must be around 500, with Calgar close to 400. Don't get me started on Dante, some sources have him as CM for 1100 years, so who knows how old he is?