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Am trying to put together a list and am looking to add an effective assault squad. What are the pros and cons for the squads available to Eldar? I'm talking across the board too so Eldar, harlequins and dark Eldar.

So looking at:

Howling banshees
Striking scorpions
Wraithblades

Harlequin troupe

Unsure what's available from the dark Eldar codex

Thanks

Wraithblade squad with an attached webway portal/shadowfield Archon. Toss in Jain Zar for taste.

More conventionally, Banshees are more effective against MEQ than Scorpions, but Scorpions are better against GEQ and don't need a transport due to infiltrate+shrouded+move through cover.

Wraithblades are better against everything, but are also more expensive and need transportation.

Wyches are terrible against everything and basically exist to tarpit. Take a cheap unit of ten, shove em in a raider and try to throw them at a Wraithknight or something so that they can hold it up with their 4++.

Incubi do decent damage but are expensive and fragile.

Grotesques are fantastic, very durable and they do decent damage. They're similar to Wraithblades in function.

Talos are super durable and do good damage, but they're extremely slow. They work best as area-denial and as a tank to absorb firepower.

Howling Banshees cancel overwatch but a Banshee Mask as wargear does the same thing.

Reaver Jetbikes have Rending HoW, particulary with Cluster Caltrops making them very ideal to wound Invisible units.

Talos have a formation that scouts them up and keep accumulating VP but are very slow outside the initial Scout movement.

Harlequins (Solitaire and Troupe) have options that make them very good in combat but can get expensive real quick.

It really depends on what you need to kill. Banshees are great against medium infantry (Tactical Marines, Fire Warriors, other Eldar, Scions, Necron Warriors), but come up short against heavies, high toughness and hordes (Terminators, Orks, Wraithguard, Termagants), so you really need to pick your targets. They're also pretty soft, so definitely need a transport.

Wraithblades could be decent, especially with Spiritseer support. I think I'd go for the axe and shield ones. They're almost strictly worse than thunderhammer Terminators, but at T6 and 66% of the cost they seem ok. Nearly all the Spiritseer buffs are useful (Conceal for cover saves, Quicken for closing the distance, Empower to destroy vehicles and instakill characters, Protect for 2+ saves, Enhance for WS5). Flexible too, can take on almost anything and have a fighting chance, although with so few attacks (especially if they don't get the charge) and I1 it might take them a while to deal with an enemy. Definitely needs a transport.

My personal favourite are the Scorpions, for two reasons: Infiltrate and flexibility. They don't need (or even want) a transport; you can just plonk them in cover up close to your opponent's table edge, using the first turn to close the distance, preferable into new cover (move through cover and fleet helps immensely). With 2+ cover and 3+ armour they take a lot of dedication to get rid of, unless your opponent happens to have AP3 weapons with ignores cover, in which case you have to take that into consideration. They're also able to take on pretty much any unit in the game, with I10 mandiblasters, 2-3 attacks each, and an absolutely brutal Exarch who'll quite happily slay a few warlords with his claw (ALWAYS take the claw). WS6 (formation), S6, AP2, I6 and 3-6 attacks (depending on charge and challenger). Yes please.

So looking at the stats...

Scorpions:
S:3 WS: 4 A:1
Have a chain sword that gives S:+1 AP:6

Banshees
S:3 WS:4 A:1
Have a powersword that gives S: user so 3 AP:3

Scorpions save on a 3+ banshees on a 4+ Scorpions don't need a transport but banshees negates overwatch. However banshees 13 points per man scorpions 17 points. Scorpion exarch is mighty though


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That compared to harlequins that are

S:3 WS:5 A:2
Have a weapon that can give either kiss of death or embrace of death

No save but can take a shadowseer but are 20 points per man and 75 points for a shadowseer

I personally like Shining Spears, because while they lost hit and run they gained an ap for the second plus round. They are also one of the few aspects that don't lose anything when joined by a farseer or Autarch.

Comparing Banshees to Scorpions directly:

Banshees charging kill 4.5 MEQ on average, 6 with an executioner Exarch. Scorpions charging kill 4 MEQ on average, 6 with a scorpion's claw exarch.

Banshees charging kill 7 GEQ on average, 9 with an executioner exarch. Scorpions charging kill 9 GEQ on average, 11 with a Scorpion's claw exarch.

So the difference in damage between them is pretty negligible. However, the Scorpion exarch is just better in every way then the Banshee exarch, and not needing a transport compensates for the increased ppm of Scorpions. Overall, they're pretty much a better choice.

Kaela_Mensha_Khaine wrote:
I personally like Shining Spears, because while they lost hit and run they gained an ap for the second plus round. They are also one of the few aspects that don't lose anything when joined by a farseer or Autarch.

Thanks for you reply. Not understanding how other units lose out and shining spears done. Can you explain? Sorry I'm a newb!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Comparing Banshees to Scorpions directly:

Banshees charging kill 4.5 MEQ on average, 6 with an executioner Exarch. Scorpions charging kill 4 MEQ on average, 6 with a scorpion's claw exarch.

Banshees charging kill 7 GEQ on average, 9 with an executioner exarch. Scorpions charging kill 9 GEQ on average, 11 with a Scorpion's claw exarch.

So the difference in damage between them is pretty negligible. However, the Scorpion exarch is just better in every way then the Banshee exarch, and not needing a transport compensates for the increased ppm of Scorpions. Overall, they're pretty much a better choice.

Great thanks great info. What about the scorpions compared with the harlequins?

Lots of different units with lots of different roles.

Scorpions are like ASMs. Great bullies. But only pick on the weak.

Banshees will dice Marines, or anything overwatch-dependant. Hits fast, but not hard. Can't duke it out. Lightning/skirmishers.

Wraithblades are a dedicated CC unit. If they can't take a target in CC, the target is a death star (or tech'ed for Wraith killing). But you pay for that.

Storm Guardians are "oh gak throw something at that now". Their use matches their fluff. They aren't charging because they are good at CC. They charge because they are boned, and its a bad choice, but all other choices are worse. Don't take.

Bharring wrote:
Lots of different units with lots of different roles.

Scorpions are like ASMs. Great bullies. But only pick on the weak.

Banshees will dice Marines, or anything overwatch-dependant. Hits fast, but not hard. Can't duke it out. Lightning/skirmishers.

Wraithblades are a dedicated CC unit. If they can't take a target in CC, the target is a death star (or tech'ed for Wraith killing). But you pay for that.

Storm Guardians are "oh gak throw something at that now". Their use matches their fluff. They aren't charging because they are good at CC. They charge because they are boned, and its a bad choice, but all other choices are worse. Don't take.

Yeah looks like striking scorpions are the way to go especially as they don't need a transport so in smaller points games can be vital. Looking at the data they sure are looking the best on paper. Like that they are more resilient too with the 3+ save. Would love to see some data on the scorpions compared with a harlequins troupe if anyone has it?!?

Reavers.
T4 3+ cover.
18 S3 attacks, 4 S4 rending HoW, and 2D6 S6 rending HoW.
On the mobility of an eldar jet bike.
With hit and run.
And combat drugs on top of the rest, with base Init 6.

We have a lot to like about reaver jet bikes.
A unit of 6 with 2 caltrops is pretty much the same cost as a minimum unit of scorpions w/exarch.

Of course, in a discussion like this, the problem becomes a single assault unit isn't an effective offense. You'll need more than 1 unit to make it work, and scorpions and reavers pair really well together.

If you only want a single unit, the answer is Wraith Knight w/Glaive.

5x Shining Spears With Exarch (Star Lance)
+ Fusion Gun Laser Lance Autarch With banshee mask is my favorite. Not the best damage out put. But very good scoring unit that can be anywhere in round 2 With a 3+ and 4+ cover save. They kill a Hive Tyrant on the charge and 3 wounds of a wraith Knight when lance shot is added. Also they are the best anti scythe wraith unit in the codex.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
Reavers.
T4 3+ cover.
18 S3 attacks, 4 S4 rending HoW, and 2D6 S6 rending HoW.
On the mobility of an eldar jet bike.
With hit and run.
And combat drugs on top of the rest, with base Init 6.

We have a lot to like about reaver jet bikes.
A unit of 6 with 2 caltrops is pretty much the same cost as a minimum unit of scorpions w/exarch.

Of course, in a discussion like this, the problem becomes a single assault unit isn't an effective offense. You'll need more than 1 unit to make it work, and scorpions and reavers pair really well together.

If you only want a single unit, the answer is Wraith Knight w/Glaive.

Nice... Not having a dark Eldar codex I hadn't seen the reavers. They look good and you are completely right not looking just to run one unit (well perhaps at 1000 points)

Was trying to work out which close assault unit gets the best bang for your buck. Think scorpions nail it for Eldar considering they can survive very well without a transport and pack a good punch. Actually tempted by them deploying two squads in Falcons alongside a squad of fire dragons in a falcon and deep striking my opponent... Should be pretty destructive.

Now wondering though if we compared this

6 man harlequin troupe with kisses or embraces with 1 shadowseer = 180
Vs
6 man scorpion squad with 1 exarch with scorpion claw = 142

Could run either two harlequin squads, one of each or two scorpion squads at 2000 points. At one perhaps one larger squad on foot would be better. The question is which one?

From what I see the scorpions are far more durable but the harlequins pack and very hard punch

 knightofkob wrote:
5x Shining Spears With Exarch (Star Lance)
+ Fusion Gun Laser Lance Autarch With banshee mask is my favorite. Not the best damage out put. But very good scoring unit that can be anywhere in round 2 With a 3+ and 4+ cover save. They kill a Hive Tyrant on the charge and 3 wounds of a wraith Knight when lance shot is added. Also they are the best anti scythe wraith unit in the codex.

Outside of the star lance, use the catapults vs the knights. 2 twin-linked shots that need 6's to wound for AP2 is better than 1 shot at S6 (need 6 to wound) and AP3.

I like shining spears too, but going have a wraith knight is desperation.

Xeones7 wrote:

Kaela_Mensha_Khaine wrote:
I personally like Shining Spears, because while they lost hit and run they gained an ap for the second plus round. They are also one of the few aspects that don't lose anything when joined by a farseer or Autarch.

Thanks for you reply. Not understanding how other units lose out and shining spears done. Can you explain? Sorry I'm a newb!!

Spears don't lose any of their special rules when an IC attaches to them. Scorpions lose the ability to infiltrate and gain shrouded, Banshees loose the +3 run/charge, Dire Avengers lose the BS 2 overwatch/Stubborn+counter attack.

If you're counting Battle Brothers as being available to Eldar, then the answer is Grotesques, preferably the Grotesquerie formation in the Covens supplement. I'd put them up against Banshees, Scorpions, and/or Wraith Blades any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Harlies hit hard and fast but die to a weak breeze. Seriously, expect two to die to overwatch against basic squads.

sweetbacon wrote:
If you're counting Battle Brothers as being available to Eldar, then the answer is Grotesques, preferably the Grotesquerie formation in the Covens supplement. I'd put them up against Banshees, Scorpions, and/or Wraith Blades any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

This. Grotesques are good, tough melee monsters.

Dark Eldar also have Incubi, which really aren't that fragile. They're T3, like eldar, but they have 3+ armor and feel no pain rolls from turn 2 onward. They also get furious charge starting on turn 4, and -all- of them have S+1 AP2 melee weapons with the following profiles:

WS5 S3 T3 A2 W1 I5 Ld9

So, on turns 1-3 they get 3 S4 AP2 attacks per model on the charge, while turns 4+ they get 3 S5 AP2 attacks per model on the charge.

Their only real drawback as a dedicated melee unit is a lack of assault grenades. When attacking from an angle where they don't lose their initiative, Incubi are very scary to pretty much everything that isn't either high toughness or low invuln saves.

It's really silly that incubi can't get assault grenades at all now. Pretty sure that was an oversight in design.

Searching for the best non-Wraith Knight Eldar assault unit is similar to searching for the best long-range shooting Tyranid unit.

Even if you find the winner, it's still poo.

One more thing to point out is that Mandiblasters auto hit and wound on a 4+, allowing them to wound high WS/T/invisible units reliably.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Searching for the best non-Wraith Knight Eldar assault unit is similar to searching for the best long-range shooting Tyranid unit.

Even if you find the winner, it's still poo.

This is true. Banshees got a lot better, but the only truly scary CC unit in the Eldar codex remains the Wraith Knight.

Wraithknight

To answer the OP, I think the 3 craftworld squads listed are all cost appropriate, but I like the scorpions best. The low attacks (for the cost) of wraith blades hurt them, and the low strength of banshees hurt them. Scorpions are a good mix.

I don't know why people are still thinking Banshees need a transport? For the cost of a WS, you could get an entire second squad of banshees. They move 15" when they run assuming you're in a war host, so on turn 2 they'll be up to 21" from where they started, before charging, and get +3" on the charge still.

The only way the transport gets you there any faster is if you sacrifice it on turn 1 by pivoting it's rear to face the enemy, which is a lot of points to just throw away.

It absolutely will protect the squad inside, but so does redundancy. Banshees are cheap enough to use the second option now, imo.

I used to spoil Overwatch and tank some hits with my DAs, because they were so much cheaper than my Banshees (or Harlies). Now Banshees not only ignore Overwatch, but also are just as cheap. My DAs will still probably join them, but won't be the sacrificial first wave anymore.