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I used to run an Avatar with Wraithblades as a pretty effective CC deathstar, but now that the Avatar of Khaine is LoW I'm not too fond of it. Are there any other Eldar deathstars that are still viable/powerful?

Grotesques plus 1-2 Farseers with fate and 1-2 archons with shadow fields gives you a rerollable 2++ unit.

the Avatar is substancially better now, the LOW thing is irrelevant so long as you decide you don't want a COD (and most now do not) and simply go battlehost.

The avatar makes even 9 point storm guardians str4 4 attacks on the charge.. he buffs himself to 7 attacks str 9 ap2 on the charge.. brutal... if you charge any flamers overwatch is nullified.. wraithguard with axes benefit enormously and become str 8 3 attacks ap2 on the charge ( I know they now have rage too but you see my point)

But the real creme de la creme is probably jain zar with 10 wraithblades axes. On foot she tanks at toughness 6 2+ (you can look out any AP2) if she is warlord she buffs them +3" on run (HUGE) and she denies overwatch AND makes the targets probably hit at same time as the axes

ConanMan wrote:
the Avatar is substancially better now, the LOW thing is irrelevant so long as you decide you don't want a COD (and most now do not) and simply go battlehost.

The avatar makes even 9 point storm guardians str4 4 attacks on the charge.. he buffs himself to 7 attacks str 9 ap2 on the charge.. brutal... if you charge any flamers overwatch is nullified.. wraithguard with axes benefit enormously and become str 8 3 attacks ap2 on the charge ( I know they now have rage too but you see my point)

But the real creme de la creme is probably jain zar with 10 wraithblades axes. On foot she tanks at toughness 6 2+ (you can look out any AP2) if she is warlord she buffs them +3" on run (HUGE) and she denies overwatch AND makes the targets probably hit at same time as the axes

Dont forget baharroth for hit and run!

The avatar can't join a unit though, can he?

Nope, he cannot.

Shadowfield and WWP Archon in a squad of Wraithblades means a scatterless deep-striking majority toughness 6 unit with a 2+ invulnerable save. Add Jain Zar for a backup 2+sv and overwatch nullification and reap the lulz.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Nope, he cannot.

Shadowfield and WWP Archon in a squad of Wraithblades means a scatterless deep-striking majority toughness 6 unit with a 2+ invulnerable save. Add Jain Zar for a backup 2+sv and overwatch nullification and reap the lulz.

Fortune would give you the rerollable 2+ saves.

 Jimsolo wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Nope, he cannot.

Shadowfield and WWP Archon in a squad of Wraithblades means a scatterless deep-striking majority toughness 6 unit with a 2+ invulnerable save. Add Jain Zar for a backup 2+sv and overwatch nullification and reap the lulz.

Fortune would give you the rerollable 2+ saves.

That you can only fail once... 2+ invul is great, but you do still take instant death from anything S6 or more should you fail that save.

-Matt

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Nope, he cannot.

Shadowfield and WWP Archon in a squad of Wraithblades means a scatterless deep-striking majority toughness 6 unit with a 2+ invulnerable save. Add Jain Zar for a backup 2+sv and overwatch nullification and reap the lulz.

Fortune would give you the rerollable 2+ saves.

That you can only fail once... 2+ invul is great, but you do still take instant death from anything S6 or more should you fail that save.

-Matt

Why wouldn't you LOS S6 things onto the Wraithblades?

Probably the best non-seer Eldar Deathstar is the gating wraithstar. I'm not an Eldar player, but it goes something like this:

Sky runner Farseer
Farseer

10x D-scythe guard

Hero: Eldrad

Legend: Baharroth

You've got all the goodies in here; hit and run, strength D, punitive over watch, etc. roll for gate, and watch things die.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Nope, he cannot.

Shadowfield and WWP Archon in a squad of Wraithblades means a scatterless deep-striking majority toughness 6 unit with a 2+ invulnerable save. Add Jain Zar for a backup 2+sv and overwatch nullification and reap the lulz.

Fortune would give you the rerollable 2+ saves.

That you can only fail once... 2+ invul is great, but you do still take instant death from anything S6 or more should you fail that save.

-Matt

The old Seer-coucil (and a variation of the current) is built around not failing that rerollable 2++. Or look out siring mass shooting that does ID him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 The Shrike wrote:
Probably the best non-seer Eldar Deathstar is the gating wraithstar. I'm not an Eldar player, but it goes something like this:

Sky runner Farseer
Farseer

10x D-scythe guard

Hero: Eldrad

Legend: Baharroth

You've got all the goodies in here; hit and run, strength D, punitive over watch, etc. roll for gate, and watch things die.

This one is even better if you can find a way to squeeze a wraithhost in. Then the Wraithguard get battlefocus, so all of them can shoot.

The trick is to fit it all in. Either you're running a formation (Windrider most likely) or you'll need four troop choices and an opponent that's ok with multiple CADs.

Corpsetheif claw can be considered a Death Star, especially since you can use your farseers to buff it

 krootman. wrote:
Corpsetheif claw can be considered a Death Star, especially since you can use your farseers to buff it

While this is technically true, it's more difficult to buff a unit that your farseer can never join. But even without buffs, the Corpsethief claw is pretty buff. 5 MCs with 25 S7 AP2 attacks on the charge, T7, with 15 wounds in the unit. A 3+ armor save with fearless and feel no pain.

Of course, the minimum cost for that unit is 600, easily hitting 700 with desireable upgrades, and they're slow. They have scout, so they could outflank, but then you'd have them off the table for a minimum of 1 turn, with turn 3 being the first turn they could potentially assault. They could, however, use their normal scout move and footslog up the map, possibly being able to assault turn 2 if your opponent is completely braindead. Other than possibly some invisible unit, I don't think there is anything in the game that out CCs a corpsthief claw formation. Avoidance is probably the best policy for almost every army, so against a decent opponent, corpsthief claw will probably be relegated to an expensive area denial unit with haywire blasters.

Now, if you could somehow increase their movement speed, we'd be talking.



EDIT: It's worth noting that this formation with ichor injectors could kill 2 wraithknights every turn if it could manage to get into CC with them.

 The Shrike wrote:
Probably the best non-seer Eldar Deathstar is the gating wraithstar. I'm not an Eldar player, but it goes something like this:

Sky runner Farseer
Farseer

10x D-scythe guard

Hero: Eldrad

Legend: Baharroth

You've got all the goodies in here; hit and run, strength D, punitive over watch, etc. roll for gate, and watch things die.

Ehh unless theirs something in there that lets them run after deep striking, most of those flamers are going to be irrelevant.

5 MCs with 25 S7 AP2 attacks on the charge, T7, with 15 wounds in the unit. A 3+ armor save with fearless and feel no pain.

Good lord

 Ratius wrote:

5 MCs with 25 S7 AP2 attacks on the charge, T7, with 15 wounds in the unit. A 3+ armor save with fearless and feel no pain.

Good lord

I know, right? On top of all that, they have 2 other special rules for the formation. One that lowers the leadership(-1) of enemies within....6 inches I believe, and another that gives their army 1 bonus victory point for every unit they kill in melee, above and beyond any other VPs they might get for killing a unit(slay the warlord, purge the alien, etc)

The problem is their speed. If someone played a corpsethief claw against me, I'd totally plan to ignore and avoid them the entire game. That may very well mean giving up an objective and allowing them to deny an area to me. But I play fast armies, so I'm pretty confident that my opponent would end up losing a lot more with 600-700 points invested in the claw than I would by not addressing it. It would basically be 5 haywire blaster shots every turn, but they'd all have to shoot at a single unit, and they'd be shooting at BS3. Certainly not worth 600-700 points, if that's all they ended up doing.

 BetrayTheWorld wrote:

 krootman. wrote:
Corpsetheif claw can be considered a Death Star, especially since you can use your farseers to buff it

While this is technically true, it's more difficult to buff a unit that your farseer can never join. But even without buffs, the Corpsethief claw is pretty buff. 5 MCs with 25 S7 AP2 attacks on the charge, T7, with 15 wounds in the unit. A 3+ armor save with fearless and feel no pain.

Of course, the minimum cost for that unit is 600, easily hitting 700 with desireable upgrades, and they're slow. They have scout, so they could outflank, but then you'd have them off the table for a minimum of 1 turn, with turn 3 being the first turn they could potentially assault. They could, however, use their normal scout move and footslog up the map, possibly being able to assault turn 2 if your opponent is completely braindead. Other than possibly some invisible unit, I don't think there is anything in the game that out CCs a corpsthief claw formation. Avoidance is probably the best policy for almost every army, so against a decent opponent, corpsthief claw will probably be relegated to an expensive area denial unit with haywire blasters.

Now, if you could somehow increase their movement speed, we'd be talking.



EDIT: It's worth noting that this formation with ichor injectors could kill 2 wraithknights every turn if it could manage to get into CC with them.

The thing that makes the corpsetheif great is they are able to give you board control, forcing your opponent (if hes faster) to stay on the table edges. I use it in tandem with the seer council actually, their -1 buff is nice with some of the powers the seers can cast, and 30 tl poison shots is nothing to laugh at.

Thee is a deathstar using Maugan Ra, Farseer, VaULS battwery with d and a warlock. T7, 2+ cover, tanking MCs, cc character possible invisibility and fortune, etc. Sit this squad on a relic or just place your objectives within 24" of this unit and lol. Maugan Ra is a beast for 195.

http://www.thedarkcity.net/t11014p420-a-tdc-blog-strategies-unit-analysis-batreps-observations-tactics#138428

This is a test list that has yet to lose a maelstorm.

 felixcat wrote:
Thee is a deathstar using Maugan Ra, Farseer, VaULS battwery with d and a warlock. T7, 2+ cover, tanking MCs, cc character possible invisibility and fortune, etc. Sit this squad on a relic or just place your objectives within 24" of this unit and lol. Maugan Ra is a beast for 195.

http://www.thedarkcity.net/t11014p420-a-tdc-blog-strategies-unit-analysis-batreps-observations-tactics#138428

This is a test list that has yet to lose a maelstorm.

At first glance, there are certainly a few unusual unit choices in that list. I'll do an in-depth analysis later on, and let you know what I think over on TDC.

Lol. Unusual. That is kind of my province no?