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Made in gb
Mighty Brass Scorpion of Khorne





Why Aye Ya Canny Dakkanaughts!

 nordsturmking wrote:
Gesundheit wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/11/25/troops-are-better-than-ever-how-the-next-three-codexes-improve-your-units/


Some new rules.
Spears went to str 7 and d2
Sword Str 6 and d2
I dont know what i should think…


i know what i think why would i ever take a spear? it only gives +1 S

Depends on price and if the spear gets a shooting change too I guess?

Just hope this buff to the sword isn't to make up for the fact that they've made the shield completely useless...

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"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so f***ing what." - Stephen Fry
 
   
Made in at
Longtime Dakkanaut




 nordsturmking wrote:
Gesundheit wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/11/25/troops-are-better-than-ever-how-the-next-three-codexes-improve-your-units/


Some new rules.
Spears went to str 7 and d2
Sword Str 6 and d2
I dont know what i should think…


I know what i think why would i ever take a spear? it only gives +1 S

but every custodian has at least Ld 11 thats pretty good.


Flat 2 dmg is nice, but I agree. With just this info, spears are not good.

I very much hope that spears get some sort of special rule to make them worthwhile. Shield guard are cool and all, but it would be nice to breathe back some life into our most recognizable weapon option.

All of our boys going to ld11 is kinda funny, but being ld8 never made any sense anyway.
   
Made in us
Long-Range Black Templar Land Speeder Pilot






I mainly run sword & board Custodes so it's nice to see the shooting of the sentinel blades now matches and the +1S is terrific.

I guess they aren't too many T6 targets out there to justify the Spear though.
   
Made in hu
Fresh-Faced New User




So I went with the Ares list, not gonna do that again to my friends, I lost so much respect in like 30 mins.

Also, sentinel blade melee profile looks tasty.
   
Made in gb
Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant





Luton, England

Really hoping the spears get a sweep profile, that would balance out against the buffed swords.

Not a big fan of damage 2, the ammount of neg 1 damage in the game often makes it worse than D3, at best I think its a sidegrade.

Really hoping the axes don't get the D2 treatment......

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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Axes need d3 to matter. Or be cheap
   
Made in us
Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws






Really hope spears have some other type of buff otherwise no one will ever take them. S7 is in a bad spot compared to S6 or S8.

GW: "We do no demographic research, we have no focus groups, we do not ask the market what it wants" 
   
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Mysterious Techpriest






Spears have greater range
rapid fire instead of pistols
deal more damage to t6 targets
probably cheaper compared to Sentinel/Storm

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 Thairne wrote:
Spears have greater range
rapid fire instead of pistols
deal more damage to t6 targets
probably cheaper compared to Sentinel/Storm


Unless they are significantly cheaper, none of that will compare to the +1 armor (and possible 4++ if that's no longer army wide) that the sword and shield brings. Survivability trumps offensive power in the vast majority of situations in 9e from more own experience. And the swords are already S6 so spears will only ever be better against T6 MCs, which is niche compared to all the T3 and T4 units both weapons will be equally good at.

GW: "We do no demographic research, we have no focus groups, we do not ask the market what it wants" 
   
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In My Lab

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
 Thairne wrote:
Spears have greater range
rapid fire instead of pistols
deal more damage to t6 targets
probably cheaper compared to Sentinel/Storm


Unless they are significantly cheaper, none of that will compare to the +1 armor (and possible 4++ if that's no longer army wide) that the sword and shield brings. Survivability trumps offensive power in the vast majority of situations in 9e from more own experience. And the swords are already S6 so spears will only ever be better against T6 MCs, which is niche compared to all the T3 and T4 units both weapons will be equally good at.
T6 and T7. T6 ain't common, but T7 is moderately common.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in at
Longtime Dakkanaut




 JNAProductions wrote:
 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
 Thairne wrote:
Spears have greater range
rapid fire instead of pistols
deal more damage to t6 targets
probably cheaper compared to Sentinel/Storm


Unless they are significantly cheaper, none of that will compare to the +1 armor (and possible 4++ if that's no longer army wide) that the sword and shield brings. Survivability trumps offensive power in the vast majority of situations in 9e from more own experience. And the swords are already S6 so spears will only ever be better against T6 MCs, which is niche compared to all the T3 and T4 units both weapons will be equally good at.
T6 and T7. T6 ain't common, but T7 is moderately common.


True, there are quite a lot of T7 dreadnoughts running around, but I nonetheless agree with the survivability argument. If given the option, I'd always go for higher survivability and trade some damage potential for it, especially since we are such a low model cound army.

Again, for now I remain cautiously optimistic that spears get some extra rule that makes them worthwhile.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/25 21:31:05


 
   
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Interesting that they didn't post axe specification. Which would be d2 weapon too.
   
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Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant





Luton, England

superninja_834 wrote:
Interesting that they didn't post axe specification. Which would be d2 weapon too.


Here's hoping not, we need some variety in weapon profiles!

An army of damage 2 weapons is very easily countered and has no answers to things like dreads, drukhari fat boy lists, ork vehicles, deathwing, thousand sons and deathguard to name a few of the current meta lists with -1 damage.

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Profiles between it and the new spear have to vary a bit more.

Make the Axe 7-10 pts and flat 3
OR if this is too badass: flat 3 against t7 or higher and flat 2 against everything else.

The spear change is pretty cool. S7 means that Piercing Strike (1 CP) got pretty good against T4,T7 and higher units
   
Made in de
Mysterious Techpriest






I agree that the spears seem lackluster.
I was just listing their advantages... I definately would still prefer Storm Shields for almost every situation. Which is kinda sad, but kinda neat. since I have 9 Shield Guards and 0 Spear Guards
But then again, we dont know the cost of S/B compared to spears, it could be significant.
Or there is some further incentive to mix and match, it doesnt need to be either/or still.

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Made in dk
Regular Dakkanaut




well, if the +1 to wound strat is still spears only then the good ol' dilemma of whether or not to include a few spears guys here and there I stilt a thing, I guess.

for some reason flat 2 is a little tame to me. I know flat 3 is too much and d3+1 is too. rolling a d2 in 40k is not a thing, so d2+1 is out of the question. but with flat 2 we are going to bounce off dreadnaughts, DG and all the other -1 dam in the game so hard. I mean, yeah, I hated d3 dam on all our stuff but at leat you could go into a redemptor with 3-4 dudes, roll a ton of d3 and spike out a few dam2 results here and there. from now on all of that would just be ones.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
also, I dont agree on the premise that spears have no targets. they have plenty, Imo. dreads and a lot of tanks being wounded on 4s is decent. and something we've lacked. I mean, going into an immolator with 3 vertus bikes and having it all bounce of on fives for the wound roll was never very satisfying.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/26 10:06:54


 
   
Made in de
Mysterious Techpriest






ability:
On a wound roll of 4+, add 1 to the damage characteristic of this weapon.
That is essentially D2+1.

I dont think spears should be heavy hitters, but D2 on spears definately sreams D3 axes to me.
At least you dont roll a 1/2 and scratch a marine now.

The rumours say that bikes get a +1 to wound instead of the reroll, no? So with S6, assuming that stays, you effectively have S8 on them.
Troops with S8 would be crazy, even for Stodes. That is for heavy hitters.

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In My Lab

 Thairne wrote:
ability:
On a wound roll of 4+, add 1 to the damage characteristic of this weapon.
That is essentially D2+1.

I dont think spears should be heavy hitters, but D2 on spears definately sreams D3 axes to me.
At least you dont roll a 1/2 and scratch a marine now.

The rumours say that bikes get a +1 to wound instead of the reroll, no? So with S6, assuming that stays, you effectively have S8 on them.
Troops with S8 would be crazy, even for Stodes. That is for heavy hitters.
It’s only Dd2+1 if you wound on a 1+.

If you wound on a 4+, it’s D3.

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Been Around the Block




Tiberias wrote:

True, there are quite a lot of T7 dreadnoughts running around.



Sadly dreadnoughts have Duty Eternal. Wounding T7 on 4s with BS2/AP3 is certainly not nothing (min unit of 3 spear guard averages 6 wounds). Problem is there may not be enough worthwhile T7 targets in the meta for it to matter.
   
Made in de
Mysterious Techpriest






 JNAProductions wrote:
It’s only Dd2+1 if you wound on a 1+.

If you wound on a 4+, it’s D3.


Well, I'm bad at math.
But it could make D2 swords, D2/3 spears and D3 axes. Numbers need tweaks, but you catch what I mean

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I'll be honest, if they buff the Dagger to pierce saves, I don't care what damage the axes do. Sag Troops just became numero uno on the depth chart.

I Do care about lances though, because I love me my 12-15 bikers.
   
Made in de
Mysterious Techpriest






https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/11/29/adeptus-custodes-crush-foes-with-devastating-battle-stances-in-the-new-codex/

Do these things look kinda underwhelming to anyone else?
Firstly, that article is badly written. I had to read it like 3 times to get how they work.
Then the forced activation each turn, the no going back etc. makes them rather stiff... that and the fact that they seem rather gimmick-y (with the army wide application) to me, especially compared to all-around useful stuff like SM doctrines, makes them look somewhat underwhelming so far.

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Longtime Dakkanaut





Connecticut

Can almost guarantee you'll have ways to manipulate them. Seems interesting and at least somewhat cerebral.

Blood Angels, Custodes, Tzeentch, Alpha Legion, Astra Militarum, Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, Imperial Knights, Tau, Genestealer Cult.

I have a problem.

Being contrary for the sake of being contrary doesn't make you unique, it makes you annoying.

 Purifier wrote:
Using your rules isn't being a dick.
 
   
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Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant





Luton, England

They certainly seem interesting, the fixed order and not being able to stay in one is a little annoying/unrealistic but likely needed for balance reasons.
Anything that you get to choose on a battle by battle basis is good and adds alot of interest/tactics, the fact that you choose in your command phase is a bit of a downer on any defensive ones you may want up for the first turn.

Weird how the article seemed to think custodes were getting an extra pip of damage when they are just changing to average damage as far as we know.

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How exactly do the martial stances work? Are you required to choose stance #1 and then the 2nd stance automatically follows on the following turn? Or do you choose 1 of the 2 stances when you activate and then can only use 1 of the 2 options in each stance for a total of 3 activations during the game?

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Iggy88 wrote:
How exactly do the martial stances work? Are you required to choose stance #1 and then the 2nd stance automatically follows on the following turn? Or do you choose 1 of the 2 stances when you activate and then can only use 1 of the 2 options in each stance for a total of 3 activations during the game?



This was what I wondered too. Do you get both benefits, or pick one?
   
Made in ca
Gargantuan Gargant






I think they definitely could have worded this more intuitively. Classic GW word gumbo lol.
   
Made in gb
Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant





Luton, England

From my reading it works as follows:

Command phase turn 1: Choose one of the stances from your primary Ka'tar

Command Phase turn 2: Choose the second stand from your primary Ka'tar OR advance to your secondary Ka'tar and choose a stance from it.

Command phase turn 3: If you are in your primary then Advance to your secondary Ka'tar and choose a stance from it.
Or if you are in your secondary then change to the second stance from it OR advance to your Tertiary Ka'tar and choose a stance from it.

Command Phase turn 4: If you are in you secondary then change to the second stance from it OR advance to your Tertiary Ka'tar and choose a stance from it.
Or if you are in your Tertiary change to the second stance from it.

Command phase turn 5: If you are in your Secondary then advance to your Tertiary Ka'tar and choose a stance from it.
Or if you are in your Tertiary change to the second stance from it.
Or if you are in the second stance of your Tertiary Ka'tar then you are no longer in any stance.

As best as I can tell those are the options.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/29 15:46:36


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It seems kinda interesting but they called it ka'tah? Like Kata which exist in Karate and are a sequence of movements?
It's funny but kinda on the nose even for 40k.
   
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I mean, correct me because I'm likely wrong, but it looks like they just face smashed the key board for the names, and gave Custodes SM Doctrines that we HAVE to use.

Also, Calling the Cannon police on the "Custodes are probably the deadliest fighters in the Galaxy" claim. Lilith and whats his name, who sits on a chair made from literal Custodes, would like a word.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/29 16:07:22


 
   
 
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