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Made in us
[DCM]
Enigmatic Exalted Daemon





Albany, NY

Played my first game of AOS tonight, against my ever obliging sparring partner's Warriors of Nurgle. Hot on the heels of having my Daemons of Tzeentch turned to jelly in 8E

THE ARMIES

I brought most of my 40k Khorne Daemon army -



- while my opponent had his 8E Warriors of Nurgle army on hand to draw from.

THE BATTLEFIELD

We used the table to generate pieces of terrain per 2x2 square of the board, and got one piece for four squares, no pieces in another, and 0-3 (we rolled a D3 and got 3) for the last. We chose pretty large pieces to avoid having a woefully flat field.

Though in the future we’ll likely skip the ‘Mysterious Landscapes’ part entirely, we decided to follow the rules and either roll or choose … and we chose ‘Damned’ for every piece of terrain so we could promptly forget about it. Done.

SET-UP

Nurgle won the dice roll for territories and chose diagonals, and Khorne chose the lazy god’s side. Nurgle dropped first and we alternated for a bit. Not wanting to give up Sudden Death before the game even began, I deployed 45 models (6 warscrolls) to his 34 (7 warscrolls). The forces ended up being:

Nurgle Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount (General)
Nurgle Chaos Lord
Nurgle Chaos Sorcerer
18 Warriors of Nurgle – aspiring champion, standard, hornblower, halberds
8 Chaos Trolls
3 Skullcrushers – skullhunter, standard, hornblower, ensorcelled
2 Chariots of Nurgle – exalted charioteer

VS

DAEMON COHORT OF KHORNE [Formation]
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage (General)
Herald of Khorne
22 Bloodletters – bloodhunter, gore-drenched icon
10 Bloodletters – bloodhunter, gore-drenched icon, hornblower
10 Bloodletters – bloodhunter, gore-drenched icon, hornblower
Skull Cannon

With fewer warscrolls, Khorne won the initiative and took first turn!

BATTLE

*** NOTE ***
We amended only a few rules in this initial outing:
1) Measure from the base.
2) Play always alternates from one player to the other, no rolling to see who goes first each round.
3) No Sudden Death.

DOK1
Daemons hurtled for the Warrior line, mediocre run rolls and all. The skull cannon flubbed its shot at the trolls.






WON1
Warriors advanced similarly, discovered weird ranges on Nurgle spells and prepared for incoming. Skullcrushers received their lord’s Inspiring Presence (immune to battleshock for a turn).



DOK2
The bloodthirster juiced up his boys with his Bloodthirsty Charge ability (reroll charge rolls within 8”) then hurtled for the skullcrushers. He made the charge easily, however his massive mob of bloodletters failed to land a 10 twice and a smaller bloodletter pack couldn’t grab the 12 to pounce on the chariots. In combat the bloodthirster detonated a crusher, triggering Outrageous Carnage in the process and splashing three mortal wounds onto both Nurgle lords, the crushers and the warriors. He took a few wounds in return.





Meanwhile the skullcannon missed his 3+ to shoot the trolls again.

WON2
The Nurgle line collapsed into the bloodthirster, while the chariots failed a 6” charge into a smaller bloodletter pack on a 5. The thirster took a single wound from the warriors before vaporizing the remaining crushers, again triggering Outrageous Carnage and splashing mortal wounds across the Nurgle warband – although the Nurgle lord had kicked in his Morbid Vigour (5+ save against mortal wounds within 7”), the ability just didn’t seem to be working.






DOK3
Combat was well and truly joined as Khornate daemons charged in across the field: giant mob of bloodletters into the thirster’s scrum; a smaller pack into the chariots, accompanied by their herald; and the other small pack into the trolls, somewhat against their better wishes. The skullcannon popped two wounds onto a troll and it was on to murderin’. The bloodthirster started by trying to end the Nurgle lord, but only managed another wound, leaving him on one remaining. The warriors then laid into both letters and thirster, doing a few wounds to both, before losing a significant number to the daemonic infantry. The mounted Nurgle lord was also dragged down, before the foot lord could chunk the thirster down to a single wound remaining.





In other parts of the field, a chariot and a troll or two fell in exchange for half of each small bloodletter pack. The real pain came in the battleshock phase, when the warriors all but ran off, leaving just a few, and the trolls showed how much losing models not wounds hurts. On the flipside, the bloodletters hardly cared with their bravery 10 – in fact, the battleshock tests only gave them a chance to summon more daemons off their Icons.



WON3
With the chaos sorcerer hurling himself into the bloodletter-chariot combat, destiny had come to pass and there was only fighting. The Nurgle warriors tore the bloodthirster down (just!), before being mobbed and hacked apart by angry goat daemons. Meanwhile, the trolls finished off their bloodletters, leaving three alive to gape at each other, and the chariot flailed its bloodletter pack down to two, though taking wounds from the attention of the Khorne herald in the process.




And with that the Nurgle commander called it. Thoughts to come.

- Salvage

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/07/20 13:44:16


BLOODFIRE: KOW SALAMANDER REPORTS 
   
Made in us
Sslimey Sslyth




Interesting. The Bloodthirster did better than I expected on soloing for a round or two. The "Outrageous Carnage" ability seems pretty sweet, especially if you can trigger it at the right point in the opponent's line.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Enigmatic Exalted Daemon





Albany, NY

With his weapon giving +1 to hit and the formation adding +1 on wound rolls too, popping that Carnage becomes pretty real on the charge, even with his few attaks. But yea, I was sure he was toast once he got mobbed, but all those warriors flopped hard. It was definitely the Nurgle characters that hurt worst ... when they could hit

Few rules things that came up:
*We rolled 2D6 for his battleshock tests, until I went to roll mine and realized it must be 1D6, due to the wording on Gore-Drenched Icon. Checked and yep, the rules say "roll a dice". This hurt the Warriors pretty badly, but his low bravery stats didn't help once we switched to one die.

*I may have played the bloodletter's Decapitating Blow wrong. It reads:
Decapitating Blow: If the hit roll for
a Hellblade is 6 or more, that blow
inflicts a mortal wound instead of its
normal damage.
I played that a 6+ to hit just skipped rolling to wound and became a mortal wound. Reading it again, maybe you're supposed to roll those hits separately and if they wound they're a mortal wound, not just a Rend -1 wound? Certainly less awesome, but might be more supported by the "damage" section of the rules?

*Another question about Outrageous Carnage, which didn't come up but well could have. Here's the meat of the rule:
Outrageous Carnage: If
the wound roll for a Great Axe of Khorne
is 6 or more, each enemy unit within 8"
of the Bloodthirster suffers a number of
mortal wounds. The number of mortal
wounds suffered is shown in the damage
table above.
Does this key off every 6+ rolled, not just once per turn? Feels like it's per die rolled.

*I never remembered the bloodletters' Murderous Tide rule, though they were 20+ strong for just one round, and I swung first with the thirster that turn anyway.

- Salvage

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/07/07 13:32:06


BLOODFIRE: KOW SALAMANDER REPORTS 
   
Made in us
Sslimey Sslyth




Hrm. I'll need to re-read the stuff when I get home. It's all work blocked right now.
   
Made in gb
Repentia Mistress





Why'd you skip Sudden Death?

 Boss Salvage wrote:

Few rules things that came up:
*We rolled 2D6 for his battleshock tests, until I went to roll mine and realized it must be 1D6, due to the wording on Gore-Drenched Icon. Checked and yep, the rules say "roll a dice". This hurt the Warriors pretty badly, but his low bravery stats didn't help once we switched to one die.


We nearly made that mistake in our first game.

I also nearly over-read that Battleshock is not just for the combat phase (i.e. any unit that has lost models that turn for any reason).


 Boss Salvage wrote:

*I may have played the bloodletter's Decapitating Blow wrong. It reads:
Decapitating Blow: If the hit roll for
a Hellblade is 6 or more, that blow
inflicts a mortal wound instead of its
normal damage.
I played that a 6+ to hit just skipped rolling to wound and became a mortal wound. Reading it again, maybe you're supposed to roll those hits separately and if they wound they're a mortal wound, not just a Rend -1 wound? Certainly less awesome, but might be more supported by the "damage" section of the rules?


I read that as: If you roll a 6 to hit it causes a mortal wound. This would therefore be an automatic wound; as mortal wounds are automatic. I will double-check this later.

 Boss Salvage wrote:

*Another question about Outrageous Carnage, which didn't come up but well could have. Here's the meat of the rule:
Outrageous Carnage: If
the wound roll for a Great Axe of Khorne
is 6 or more, each enemy unit within 8"
of the Bloodthirster suffers a number of
mortal wounds. The number of mortal
wounds suffered is shown in the damage
table above.
Does this key off every 6+ rolled, not just once per turn? Feels like it's per die rolled.


How many attacks does the Great Axe have? If reads as for each to wound roll of 6 or more, but that 'the wound roll' suggests it happens once.

EDIT: Oh, and did you both enjoy it? Overall thoughts?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/07/07 14:57:22


 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Enigmatic Exalted Daemon





Albany, NY

ShaneTB wrote:
Why'd you skip Sudden Death?
Because it's dumb as written. Originally I believed it was a way to balance forces somewhat (with the second player deploying 1.33% of the first player to stop deploying), but that's not really the case, since it can kick in any time during the match. If Sudden Death applied to both players, then it might be interesting - I mean, is that not how 'sudden death' works in the sports it's taken from? - but all the smaller army has to do is wait for the right moment, call Sudden Death and win, despite getting creamed up until then. My opponent here could easily have waited until his third turn, called Assassinate and killed either model I chose, as the bloodthirster was on 1 wound and the herald of khorne isn't particularly hard to take down.

Sudden Death discourages a combat army from joining combat, where it becomes distressingly vulnerable to losing despite doing what it needs to do to win (i.e. wipe out the enemy). Maybe Sudden Death favors a shooting-heavy game? Or something?

I feel as if the intent of Sudden Death was to give the player who's getting pounded a chance to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat, because that's exciting and everybody likes to feel they've got a chance. In a game with no balancing factor between the opposing sides, I guess that makes some sense. However in a match where some effort has been taken to keep powers more or less in check, I don't see that the rule has a place, as both sides arguably have equal chances of victory, before tactics + dice get involved.
I also nearly over-read that Battleshock is not just for the combat phase (i.e. any unit that has lost models that turn for any reason).
I'mma pop over to the Elf report and talk about battleshock in a second
I read that as: If you roll a 6 to hit it causes a mortal wound. This would therefore be an automatic wound; as mortal wounds are automatic. I will double-check this later.
Yea, I really don't know. The way we played it felt a lot better and was mathematically more impactful to be sure.
How many attacks does the Great Axe have? If reads as for each to wound roll of 6 or more, but that 'the wound roll' suggests it happens once.
Great Axe swings at 2-4 attaks, depending on wounds remaining. I'm increasingly convinced it's per die rolled, given that the rules tell us you can roll each attak by itself, and rolling them together is merely a convenience.
Oh, and did you both enjoy it? Overall thoughts?
Right, thoughts.

So I think I enjoyed it? I definitely enjoyed getting my Khorne dudes out and punching stuff, and loved the bloodthirster's combination of aggression + damage output + surprising survivability (mostly thanks to 14 wounds + good saves). Neither in WHFB or W40K have I felt like a single big dude was this capable, and the BoIR is far from the craziest monster in the warscrolls! The mobs of bloodletters running forward wasn't the most tactically rewarding experience ever, and the random charges reminded me of the worst of 40k (flubbing your charge by 1" means nobody moves and you're charged back), but I am playing DoK here so whatevs. Shooting-wise I was less than impressed with the skullcannon, but it seems quite toned down from 8E infamy anyway, and it feels like shooting in AOS is going to require heavy investment or it will mostly be constant harassment of troops in combat. Which is a thing, if a strange one still for me.

Did my opponent enjoy it? Certainly less than me. Nurgle has some very cool command abilities, but low bravery across the army - I was shocked that crushers are only 6?! - meant battleshock brutalized him. The trolls in particular show how painful the rule is, costing whole models. Inspiring Presence is basically required to make those guys function, though in that case they will seriously put out the hurt. So there are ways around it.

I guess in the end it was ok, and again I was buoyed up by a combination of playing with painted models I haven't seen in a long time and a healthy amount of carnage. I'm building a skullcannon and painting a third icon bearer, but other than that I don't have a lot of plans to expand the army. 51 models in the Cohort formation with a couple spare daemon princes if things get nasty seems like a decent army size, all told.

The LGS is thinking about running an AOS event, and I'll be there, partially because it seems pretty clear that prize support is going to many factors that don't involve winning all the games. This seems really key, to avoid the 'Tournament of Douches' inevitability with AOS, as Manchu put it

EDIT

I think adopting objective play may be the answer to replacing Sudden Death. It really enhanced 40k in a big way for me, when games transitioned from 'kill 'em all' to 'kill 'em all or claim more objectives' - I know things got more complex in recent 40k editions, but I'd be happy adopting like 4E's simple objectives for now. Wouldn't require classifying objective securing troops and all that.

- Salvage

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/07/07 15:47:12


BLOODFIRE: KOW SALAMANDER REPORTS 
   
Made in ca
Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos





British Columbia

As written isn't Sudden Death only triggered at the beginning of the game?

I really like your sports analogy in describing how it works. Perhaps it could be an option that either player could declare they are going for at the beginning of any round. If they are unable to achieve it by the end of that round they lose the game.

Would make it feel like a desperation play.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
That's what 7th edition is about. Yelling "Forge the Narrative Pussy!" while kicking your opponent in the dick.
 BlaxicanX wrote:
A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.


 
   
Made in us
Repentia Mistress





Sudden Death occurs/is picked as part of setup once generals are picked. It can't be picked once the first turn starts.

It helped balance the two games I've played.

As for bigger creatures, agreed. My Soul Grinder felt like a giant machine smashing things and slowly weakening as chunks of it were blown/hacked off.

I'm intrigued by the murmurs of scenarios etc.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Enigmatic Exalted Daemon





Albany, NY

Eldarain wrote:As written isn't Sudden Death only triggered at the beginning of the game?
ShaneTB wrote:Sudden Death occurs/is picked as part of setup once generals are picked. It can't be picked once the first turn starts.
So I was right! I always thought it was a set-up related thing, hence being useful for balancing to some extent. Happy to see I was right. In which case I'm not so violently opposed to it, as I'll just stick to 1.33x the other player's model count.

- Salvage

BLOODFIRE: KOW SALAMANDER REPORTS 
   
Made in us
PanOceaniac Hacking Specialist Sergeant





Yea, I really don't know. The way we played it felt a lot better and was mathematically more impactful to be sure.

That's correct. If you roll a 6 on any to-hit roll, that results in a mortal wound (automatic wound, no armor saves) to the unit you're hitting.
   
Made in tw
Hunting Glade Guard




Don't skip the terrain rules! They actually make a difference, and affect strategy. Also, make sure you don't put all the terrain 'out of the way' like you did in 8th edition, put it right in the middle and fight over it!
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Enigmatic Exalted Daemon





Albany, NY

overtninja wrote:
Don't skip the terrain rules! They actually make a difference, and affect strategy. Also, make sure you don't put all the terrain 'out of the way' like you did in 8th edition, put it right in the middle and fight over it!
For the record, we followed the terrain rules to the letter, and we also selected BIG terrain pieces for sections with one feature and pushed it more towards the center so it could matter more. And when it came to determining the Magical Nonsense Powers of each feature, we did as the rules suggested and picked a rule for each - namely Damned, which is entirely voluntary.

I think in future I may scatter the terrain as most tournaments up here do, as the Competitive Terrain Phase is a pretty annoying part of 7E/8E, but otherwise I didn't have many complaints. Granted, terrain didn't do a lot, but it doesn't appear to do much in AOS.

- Salvage

BLOODFIRE: KOW SALAMANDER REPORTS 
   
Made in tw
Hunting Glade Guard




Scattering the terrain would be a good idea, I think.

I think maybe terrain with specific rules, like in the terrain battlescrolls, might be cool to use as well. They do more than the random terrain results in the rules, certainly.
   
Made in us
Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin






Awesome battle report. Suggest Blight Kings to your buddy, they did amazing things for me when I used them. They were an anvil made of blenders, but all the blades are rusty.

   
Made in gb
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle




England

Wow, that's a lot of oldschool bloodletters. Impressive.

I think objective-based games would be a riot, I'd love to try those out. Hopefully we'll see some battleplans soon.

Did you know? The Reach belongs to the Forsworn. 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Nice battle report.
It appears that all games end by a large melee in the centre.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Enigmatic Exalted Daemon





Albany, NY

 wuestenfux wrote:
It appears that all games end by a large melee in the centre.


Been trying to get another game in, but no dice between summer and business trips. Skull cannon is built and primed, though I'm finally working on the LoC for my DoT, so more 8E could be coming down the pipe ...

Either way, daemons of some flavor

- Salvage

BLOODFIRE: KOW SALAMANDER REPORTS 
   
Made in us
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine






 wuestenfux wrote:
Nice battle report.
It appears that all games end by a large melee in the centre.


Until we get the battle plans, most battles will be. It's basically "kill the other guy" at the moment.

GW Apologist-in-Chief 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Enigmatic Exalted Daemon





Albany, NY

 Samurai_Eduh wrote:
Until we get the battle plans, most battles will be. It's basically "kill the other guy" at the moment.
The more I think about AOS and watch it in action, the more I'm reminded of 40k 3E, except with more wounds and fewer vehicles. To that end, I keep meaning to dig out my 4E BBB and copy the missions pages out of it, back when they introduced simple objectives and changed things pretty wildly from the days of 'kill all the things in 6 turns'. I think they just might work ported over to AOS ...

- Salvage

BLOODFIRE: KOW SALAMANDER REPORTS 
   
Made in ca
Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos





British Columbia

I too was thinking that 40k missions would lend themselves well.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
That's what 7th edition is about. Yelling "Forge the Narrative Pussy!" while kicking your opponent in the dick.
 BlaxicanX wrote:
A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.


 
   
 
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