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On Saturday I played in a small tourny (8 people) and I came in third. But while we were writing up lists, I saw my friend setting up his double IG-88 list. Now I am not a fan of this list because honestly I think its a bit cheesy. I told him my opinion and he changed to a Boba Fett, some Viper pilot and a z95. He did not end up doing so well. Now he is a bit mad at me and stated that he will for now on bring the nastiest list he can (he exclusively flies S&V).

Mad is an exaggeration for effect. I just mean he will now bring his meanest lists and probably stop taking my advice on list building.


So I am now in need of the worst WAACer hard core BeatFace Empire list and advice on how to fly it, to face him with. In the spirit of teasing and having a bit of a go at a friend, not the need to win the game.
Any help would be appreciated.

 Nicorex wrote:
On Saturday I played in a small tourny (8 people) and I came in third. But while we were writing up lists, I saw my friend setting up his double IG-88 list. Now I am not a fan of this list because honestly I think its a bit cheesy. I told him my opinion and he changed to a Boba Fett, some Viper pilot and a z95. He did not end up doing so well. Now he is a bit mad at me and stated that he will for now on bring the nastiest list he can (he exclusively flies S&V). So I am now in need of the worst WAACer hard core BeatFace Empire list and advice on how to fly it, to face him with.
Any help would be appreciated.

Hold up a fething second. You talked your *friend* into choosing a sub-optimal list, placed better than him, and now he's angry... and your bright idea is to ask for a better list to beat him?

... if you're looking for how to lose a friend, you could just try to feth his girlfriend/boyfriend/husband/wife. You might even get laid for the attempt.



... if you're not a complete bitch, though, you need to apologize. Profusely.

Soontir + Chirpy win a lot of tournaments if you understand how to keep Soontir alive AND shooting.

Whoooaahh whoah whoah! Slow your roll there Emp. I think I did not put the right emoticons and punctuation on my post.
This is all in good fun. No one had their feelings hurt or their life ruined. I will edit the post title to reflect that.

Just so you know Emp. I did not "talk " him into changing his list. I voiced my opinion about the list he was building. A list I had faced before. A list he has used a number of times. I did not twist his arm or threaten his dog with a fork. I just said I think it is a cheesy list. He chose to change it up.

On the subject of sub-optimal. He still took a mean list with a number of tricks to it. A list that he has used before also. A list that stomped my Tie swarm into dust. It was more the dice failed him the other day, than the list.

This is a for fun tourny we have every month at my local FLGS. Not some convention or huge Tournament that he spend hundreds on hotel rooms and travel to get to. Hell the only reason we had a "tourny" is because enough people actually showed up that wanted to play x-wing. So it is not nearly in the betraying your friend level of sleeping with their significant other.

Also he is not as mad as you interpreted my post. I am sorry if I made it seem that way. That was not my intention. I would say he is not "Mad" at all. His threat to bring a hard core list were said more in jest. He will bring the nastiest list he can, because he finds them fun. Not because he is seeking revenge.

This is all in good fun.

He knows I build silly / fun lists and I care more about having a fun game than winning the game.
But he is now going to bring his worst curb stomping list and I need to be prepared to face it. I would not say he is a WAAC player but He does like to win when he plays. He will also not be expecting me to bring some hard core tourney busting net list. So to mess with him I need one of those.

Since I do not know any hard core WAAC lists, I asked for some advice on what to build.

Mopper, what upgrades do you give Soon and Chirp to complete that list? Like I said I have no clue how to make them hard as nails. Also I thought I heard Wisper was the pilot to take.

My current favourite list is:

Vader: Lone Wolf, Engine Upgrade, TIE x/1, Advanced Targeting Computer
Fel: Push the Limit, Royal Guard TIE, Autothrusters, Targeting Computer
Omicron Group: Palpatine

There's no trick to it, each of the ships just flies circles around opponents, using their defensive upgrades where they can and leaning on Palpatine when necessary. The right sort of stress/ion control list will shut it down pretty hard, and I'm yet to fly it against a Falcon (took down a Deci), but it's been fun to fly so far.

In what world is a double aggressor list "cheesy"? It's one of the weakest big ships there is. If not THE weakest big ship, since at least a lambda has crew slots.

Thanks Riquende, that looks like it could be fun.

Well Steam, honestly it probably is not in the great wide world of Uber WAAC tourney players. On the other hand here in my local meta, most of the players are pretty casual. The guy I have been talking about is probably the most competitive.

I find it cheesy because two aggressors with two free upgrade cards, you double the nastiness of your ships. Basically you are getting 6-8 points worth of free upgrades. Take IG-88 B and D give them the free IG 2K card and now they both get full dice rerolls in shooting and hard 3 turn K-turns. So that is why in my personal opinion a dual list in a bit cheesy.

They really aren't. You might think it's several points of free upgrades, but I think that the ships have probably been costed with that skill in mind and it's really more the case that a single Aggressor is slightly unerpowered to compensate.

One local player loves his dual Aggressors, I don't think I've lost to it. I have seen it beat some Rebel lists but they weren't particularly finely tuned.

 Nicorex wrote:
Thanks Riquende, that looks like it could be fun.

Well Steam, honestly it probably is not in the great wide world of Uber WAAC tourney players. On the other hand here in my local meta, most of the players are pretty casual. The guy I have been talking about is probably the most competitive.

I find it cheesy because two aggressors with two free upgrade cards, you double the nastiness of your ships. Basically you are getting 6-8 points worth of free upgrades. Take IG-88 B and D give them the free IG 2K card and now they both get full dice rerolls in shooting and hard 3 turn K-turns. So that is why in my personal opinion a dual list in a bit cheesy.

1. StReam.

2. I'm not even remotely a tourney player. Somewhere in this forum is a thread I started dedicated solely to using crappy ships in for-fun games.

3. Those "free" upgrades are built into the cost of the ship though. The IG-2000 title exists purely for double Aggressor gimmick lists; there's no reason to take it otherwise. I'm honestly not sure I've ever seen a list that fielded just one Aggressor, you can get better ships for less points. At the end of the day it's an 8 hit ship starting at 36 points.

Well like I said, it is my opinion. So take it with a pinch or bucket of salt.

Also I do not yet have the Raider so I can not build the list you suggested. I know the rules are out there but I like to have the cards on hand.

Are there any good lists using the Tie Defender?
Sorry StReam, I did not notice the r. So is your moniker supposed to be Saint Ream Dragon? or Street Ream Dragon? hehehe
Also I hope I did not come off like I was accusing anyone of being a WAAC player. Totally not my intention. Stuff sounds right in my head and I forget it does not translate well into typed screen pixels.
I do not have a problem with competitive play or players. hey whatever floats your boat you know. I just like to know if I am going to face that kind player so I can bring a suitable list.

If you want the cards, you won't get a good list with the Defender until you can get hold of a Punisher for the TIEmk2 card, it seems tailor made for Defenders as it allows them to shed stress on any bank (currently the Defender is a little too predictable to fly, far moreso if you have to turn, use stress tricks or get hit by flechette etc).

Fortunately nowhere I play locally has a requirement for the phyisical cards so I've been using Raider components since they've been up on the squadbuilder.

Er... it's Stream Dragon

like, a dragon in a stream.

And nah, I didn't think you were accusing me of being a WAAC player, I just wanted to point it out to be clear I was coming from the same viewpoint as you.

I've flown double aggressor a couple times. It's fun to fly with all those green maneuvers, but it really isn't super powerful IME.

 streamdragon wrote:
In what world is a double aggressor list "cheesy"? It's one of the weakest big ships there is. If not THE weakest big ship, since at least a lambda has crew slots.

...

Have you not been watching the regional scene? Dual aggressors are very capable, not to mention IG 88B/Boba Fett lists, which are nasty as well.

Boba Fett- VI, Tactician, proton bomb, engine upgrade

IG 88B - VI, HLC, Advanced Sensors, Autothrusters

That won a regional, and crushed a lot of the 'meta' lists. Its not as easy as some other lists out there, but it packs a heck of a punch.


Onto a competitive imp list, only Defender list I've heard of was a dual defender list that almost took a regional a while back. It was Rex and Vessery with HLC, lone wolf/predator, and a mod upgrade like shield. I think one also had ion pulse missiles.

Ahh well now I know Streamdragon.

Thanks Riquende, I was actually not going to buy a super bomber since I never use the basic bomber. I guess I will get one now. For me Riq not having the cards is like bringing soda bottles to proxy drop pods, I just can not do it.

I like my Tie's and Interceptors. Just zooming around trying to stay out of arc.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Have you not been watching the regional scene?

Nope.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Dual aggressors are very capable

Like I said, dual aggressor is fun. It's still the weakest large base ship in the current model set. It's not "unwinnable" or anything, but I struggle to see "very capable" as "cheesy".

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
not to mention IG 88B/Boba Fett lists, which are nasty as well.

Which is also not dual Aggressors.

As to the defender list question, I've had a lot of success lately with Kath Scarlet and Rexlar Brath...Brath has veteran instincts, HLC, shield upgrade (use his ability with the HLC) and Kath has prox mines, ion pulse, rebel captive and push the limit. You have to get creative with tandem flying to make good use of the defender but it's been a lot of fun!

The issue with Agressors, dual or otherwise, is they rely heavily on their actions, and, in an environment with an increasing number of ways for your opponent to stress you without any need for action on your part, this makes them easily countered.

If you're not packing the tools to deal with them, then sure, they'll be a tough proposition, but that's the same for any half decent list, and there's a lot more lists that don't fall to pieces thanks to a few points of upgrades on the opposing side than Aggressors.

Nicorex wrote:Mopper, what upgrades do you give Soon and Chirp to complete that list? Like I said I have no clue how to make them hard as nails. Also I thought I heard Wisper was the pilot to take.

There are three types of ship: arc dodger, jouster and turret.

Jouster has a lot of red dice and hit points for its point cost, you line them up and push the fire button. They beat turret ships due to their dice/cost ratio but lose to arc dodgers. Arc dodgers are fast nimble ships that can beat joust ships by getting into their rear arcs, but lose to turrets. Turrets beat arc dodgers by always being able to fire on them, but lose to jousters due to their low firepower for their cost. There's no one single uber type.

In the current meta, the top cookiue cutter imperial list is Interceptor/Fel and VT-49/Chirpy. (I am not saying this is the top list, but it's very common, and it can easily place in a top 8). You need Fel setup to arc dodge, with autothrusters, push the limit, stealth device etc (this is completely standard for Soontir Fel). Chirpy is setup as a fat turret with gunnery re-rolls. It's a resonable list that does well against most opposition but it does have some weaknesses: a Z-95 swarm (7+ fighters) will beat it but if your opponent is competent enough to fly a swarm and not crash, he'll probably beat you anyway :-)

Look on a website like ListJugger and you can see the lists from actual tournaments. You will need to make some decsion on pilot skill based on what your opponent has. Soontir Fel MUST move last.

streamdragon wrote:In what world is a double aggressor list "cheesy"? It's one of the weakest big ships there is. If not THE weakest big ship, since at least a lambda has crew slots.

Two IG88 places very highly in tournaments.

The ship is very fast and agile (look at the dial and base size, meaning it moves further when you place a template) and it carries a cannon. It's basically a tie interceptor with a 4 dice gun and is usually played and fitted as one. Then, if you take two of them, there's a title that gives each one the skill of the other in addition to their own. Obviously you take IG-88B unless you're playing againt a very weird list, and then you take C or D as the other. The main weakness of "Brobots" (two IG88) is they are vulnerable to stress as they need their actions. But, with two cannons between them, and their ridiculous speed, they can usually quickly get rid of whatever is causing the stress (these days usually a "Warthog" (Y-wing with BTL-A4) and the stressbot (R3-A2).