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Well this one's fairly self explanatory. Have any of you read Michael Moorcocks Eternal Champion Novels, and if so would you recommend them?

Yes, but they are a very old school writing style. If you are a DnD/Warhammer fan you can track where some of their ideas first came from.

They're decent, but tend to be beefy books.

 whembly wrote:
They're decent, but tend to be beefy books.

Huh?

They aren't very long at all, especially when taken as the individual novels.

I'd say DEFINITELY worth the read, especially the ELRIC, CORUM and HAWKMOON series.

I love 'em!

As Frazz noted, they've got an 'old school' feel to them, but they are fantastic - in every sense of the word!

 Alpharius wrote:

 whembly wrote:
They're decent, but tend to be beefy books.

Huh?

They aren't very long at all, especially when taken as the individual novels.

I'd say DEFINITELY worth the read, especially the ELRIC, CORUM and HAWKMOON series.

I love 'em!

As Frazz noted, they've got an 'old school' feel to them, but they are fantastic - in every sense of the word!

I must've bought the compendium or something.
Elric and Hawkmoom series are my favorites.

 whembly wrote:
They're decent, but tend to be beefy books.

I'm with Alpharius on this one. They tend to be pretty manageable.

In answer to the OP's question, yes they are worth a read. Damn good fantasy.

I like Von Bek out of them all, Elric's pretty good, and Hawkmoon comes close as well. Even John Daker's pretty good as well.

Hell, just get them all


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 Alpharius wrote:

 whembly wrote:
They're decent, but tend to be beefy books.

Huh?

They aren't very long at all, especially when taken as the individual novels.

I'd say DEFINITELY worth the read, especially the ELRIC, CORUM and HAWKMOON series.

I love 'em!

As Frazz noted, they've got an 'old school' feel to them, but they are fantastic - in every sense of the word!

I couldn't take to Corum, but by then, I'd read the others, and there is a certain formula to them (which whilst enjoyable) you can identify.

Still love 'em though.

Right. Looks like a lot of positive feedback already.

In answer to the OP's question, yes they are worth a read. Damn good fantasy.

 Frazzled wrote:
If you are a DnD/Warhammer fan you can track where some of their ideas first came from.

I figured thats where a lot of the ideas have spawned from, and I'm quite interested in going back to the "source material".

Agreed. The Elric ones were the first I checked out after seeing the guy make an appearance in the Conan comic. Incidentally, Robert E. Howard's Conan novels are quite decent too. :-)

Spetulhu wrote:
Agreed. The Elric ones were the first I checked out after seeing the guy make an appearance in the Conan comic. Incidentally, Robert E. Howard's Conan novels are quite decent too. :-)

Hold on, is there a character crossover between those two story arcs?

Elric is damn near mandatory reading. I also really liked von Bek, Corum, and Nomad of the Time Streams. Hawkmoon is great for epic war. I didn't really get into Erekose or Jerry Cornelius.


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 Crankpin wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:
Agreed. The Elric ones were the first I checked out after seeing the guy make an appearance in the Conan comic. Incidentally, Robert E. Howard's Conan novels are quite decent too. :-)

Hold on, is there a character crossover between those two story arcs?

Not really, Moorcock wrote Elric as a pastiche of Conan to make fun of what he saw as bad cliches from what I recall. He is almost the complete opposite of Conan.

 Crankpin wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:
Agreed. The Elric ones were the first I checked out after seeing the guy make an appearance in the Conan comic. Incidentally, Robert E. Howard's Conan novels are quite decent too. :-)

Hold on, is there a character crossover between those two story arcs?

Conan the Barbarian n14 (I think) has Elric make a visit to the Hyperborean world, yes. Without spoling it let's just say the two don't quite agree, even coming to blows, but a greater threat forces them to work together. So it's not in the books, just in a later Conan comic.

Spetulhu wrote:

 Crankpin wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:
Agreed. The Elric ones were the first I checked out after seeing the guy make an appearance in the Conan comic. Incidentally, Robert E. Howard's Conan novels are quite decent too. :-)

Hold on, is there a character crossover between those two story arcs?

Conan the Barbarian n14 (I think) has Elric make a visit to the Hyperborean world, yes. Without spoling it let's just say the two don't quite agree, even coming to blows, but a greater threat forces them to work together. So it's not in the books, just in a later Conan comic.

Ah ok, thats kind of fascinating actually. Incidentally, I noticed in the first Conan movie, Schwarzenegger's wearing a symbol-of-eight / Chaos Star pendent. Are there references to the Conan character wearing on in the novels / comics?

 Crankpin wrote:
Incidentally, I noticed in the first Conan movie, Schwarzenegger's wearing a symbol-of-eight / Chaos Star pendent. Are there references to the Conan character wearing on in the novels / comics?

Ehh... not that I can think of hastily at least. But it wouldn't surprise me. Moorcock collaborated with at least two later Conan writers (Lin Carter and L. Sprague de Camp). They were all huge fans of RE Howard and Lovecraft.

I think they're worth it. I'm trying to complete my collection of the full Eternal Champion series as published by White Wolf.

The Moorcock books are one of the key foundations of modern fantasy literature.

If you have ever wanted to see what 40K Chaos *could* and *should* be? Yes, read the Eternal Champion series.

Yes indeed.

GW's version of Chaos as "Kill everyone hurr!" is a sad travesty in comparison.

This thread has inspired me to re-read some Eternal Champion fiction!

I'll run through Elric (up to "Stormbringer" only - I lost the plot after that!), Corum and then Hawkmoon - which can (and should!) serve as a fitting end of the EC saga!

Read them.


Read them whilst listening to Warrior on the Edge of Time, which Moorcock also helped to write.

I picked up Von Beck, Hawkmoon and Elric books this afternoon for a song! Guess I'm off to a good start, alas there were no copies of Corum on the shelves.
Can't wait to get stuck in!

No. Avoid them at all costs. It will just spoil any illusions that you had that there was any innovation in the Warhammer fluff and make you long for someone to make miniatures for it.

 Crankpin wrote:
I picked up Von Beck, Hawkmoon and Elric books this afternoon for a song! Guess I'm off to a good start, alas there were no copies of Corum on the shelves.
Can't wait to get stuck in!

While it is hard to suggest a 'reading order' for the series due to the very nature of...the series (!), I'd suggest going ELRIC, CORUM and then HAWKMOON.

You can salt the others in between to taste, but I'd definitely start with ELRIC and end with HAWKMOON!

One possible reading order could be the one that was used by White Wolf's publication of the series. That's what I'm using, anyway, but that's largely because those are the books I have.

 George Spiggott wrote:
No. Avoid them at all costs. It will just spoil any illusions that you had that there was any innovation in the Warhammer fluff and make you long for someone to make miniatures for it.

Hopefully they will inspire me to get creative with the Milliput 2pack I bought recently. I've never been particularly excited about the in-house fluff, but I think Abnett, Dembski-Bowden and Annandale do raise the bar.


Thanks Alpharius and Tannhauser42, I'll give 'em a bash!


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 Tannhauser42 wrote:
I'm trying to complete my collection of the full Eternal Champion series as published by White Wolf.

Had a look at the White wolf series on Amazon. Didn't make me feel envious at all...

Someone care to copypasta the White Wolf Publishing Order here?

 Crankpin wrote:

Ah ok, thats kind of fascinating actually. Incidentally, I noticed in the first Conan movie, Schwarzenegger's wearing a symbol-of-eight / Chaos Star pendent. Are there references to the Conan character wearing on in the novels / comics?

That may be a symbol of Crom and seems to be a solar wheel or solar cross, an ancient symbol. Far more likely than a reference to Moorcock's symbol. In the Conan books, Crom seems to be derived from (or as Howard would say, the inspiration for) Crom Cruach or Crom Dubh, Celtic pre-Christian deities. The Cimmerians seem to be based on the Gaels and Celts.

Also, definitely read the Eternal Champions sets. Elric is my personal favorite as it is a rather stinging rebuke of the pulp and high fantasy that had come to dominate the genre. Corum is really good, too, and perhaps a more sympathetic character. Certainly the Vadhagh seem much more sympathetic than the cruel an decadent Melniboneans.

I do not like his later books as much as his earlier ones. The Dreamquest Trilogy, for example, seemed overlong and tried to hard, I think, to delve into the metaphysics of the multiverse and used some bizarre and heavy handed symbolism.

That being said, there are some interesting ideas presented and the tie ins between the various series are always fun.

 George Spiggott wrote:
No. Avoid them at all costs. It will just spoil any illusions that you had that there was any innovation in the Warhammer fluff and make you long for someone to make miniatures for it.

Interestingly enough, Citadel made an Eternal Champion boxed set back in the 1980s when they also published the UK edition of the Elric RPG Stormbringer, based on Runequest rules.

http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/Eternal_Champion#BC5_Michael_Moorcock.27s_Eternal_Champion

I had this set (and the RPG rulebook) and I still have a couple of the figures sitting around somewhere though most of them have gone walkies over the years. I'm certain I managed to hang on to Jerry Cornelius since he is a good modern/SF figure.

I don't think it matters what order you read the series in, since they are all separate series, except for some books where one aspect of the Eternal Champion does a cameo in someone else's story.

 Alpharius wrote:
Someone care to copypasta the White Wolf Publishing Order here?

Sorry for not copypasting, but here is a link to the Wikipedia entry for it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_Champion
The upshot is that it collects many of the stories into omnibus editions.

Skip the books and just listen to Blue Oyster Cult's "Black Blade" and "Veteran of the Psychic Wars".



(Just kidding, I loved the first 6 Elric books and a slew of the other ones mentioned).

 jmurph wrote:

 Crankpin wrote:

Ah ok, thats kind of fascinating actually. Incidentally, I noticed in the first Conan movie, Schwarzenegger's wearing a symbol-of-eight / Chaos Star pendent. Are there references to the Conan character wearing on in the novels / comics?

That may be a symbol of Crom and seems to be a solar wheel or solar cross, an ancient symbol. Far more likely than a reference to Moorcock's symbol. In the Conan books, Crom seems to be derived from (or as Howard would say, the inspiration for) Crom Cruach or Crom Dubh, Celtic pre-Christian deities. The Cimmerians seem to be based on the Gaels and Celts.

Also, definitely read the Eternal Champions sets. Elric is my personal favorite as it is a rather stinging rebuke of the pulp and high fantasy that had come to dominate the genre. Corum is really good, too, and perhaps a more sympathetic character. Certainly the Vadhagh seem much more sympathetic than the cruel an decadent Melniboneans.

I do not like his later books as much as his earlier ones. The Dreamquest Trilogy, for example, seemed overlong and tried to hard, I think, to delve into the metaphysics of the multiverse and used some bizarre and heavy handed symbolism.

That being said, there are some interesting ideas presented and the tie ins between the various series are always fun.

Conan's necklace in the movie is the symbol for the wheel of pain, the giant grain mill Conan is forced to operate when he is young. The red haired barbarian clan( the Vanir) that bought young Conan as a child slave from Thulsa Doom uses the Wheel of Pain to weed out weak slaves and ensure that strong ones develop a physique that helps them be better pit fighters. The grain mill has 8 spokes that turn the millstone and the slaves are chained to them and forced to push it. The same symbol is on the banner Conan's owner carries to the pit fights.