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What have been the results of spodding large units of gaunts??

combined with winged, or cordinated drops of synapse beasties it could be useful.

Ok I just played my first two games with the new nids today and just thought Id post a few comments on what I thought about them. Especially the AT/usefullness of the Tyrannofex.

Just to clear a few things up, im not running a super optimized list. I just run what models I have/can proxy. My opponents are mostly casual too so not much power gaming going.

First I won both of them. First game was against a casual SW army, no Jaws. Second was against gunline guard.

Hive Tyrant- B. Solid B for this guy. He is a POINT SINK but he did what he was supposed to. He sat back and shot IG squads with his barbed strangler and blocked a tank lane in the SW game. I wasnt impressed with how much he costs vs his return. He didnt do bad but I feel like I could get the same result from a Prime and a group of Warriors. He did manage to get his Psychic Powers off on a Termi Squad which assaulted him. He died after 3 rounds of combat but managed to kill all 5of the termies and 1 wound left on logan.

Zoans in Pod- B+ Fell down, shot down a tank, then died. Did exactly what was expected. They evened out their points by destroying point equivalent tanks. Blew up a LR Executioner an a LR. Then promply got shot to death. I consider these guys the new Fire Dragons of the nids. However I feel like when I destroy a big ole tank I get more out of it then when they kill my zoans. As I am eliminating a bigger threat to my army as the zoans are a threat to theirs. Will use again.

Warriors- C+. Maybe it was my rolling or my opponents fear of them but he targeted them both games. So they did a little besides provide synapse and shoot some infantry. Id think that they can do more when they arnt focused as much. However when he was focusing these with his guys, he wasnt shooting my others.

Hormogaunts B+- Solid choice. Had them outflank, ate a squad of long fangs then ran most of the game to get back into synapse. Worth their points.

Gaunts- C-. I didnt use tervigons due to not having models for them. They performed best at what gaunts do. Screening and obj holding. Did little in the way of shooting or assault.

Genestealers- B. SW game I whiffed my outflank and they ran the whole game. IG game, his line was so saturated that either outflank roll was good. Managed to get a Heavy wep squad and one infantry squad before being shot down.

Tyrannofexs B+. These guys impressed me. While I only managed two pens the entire game they did have an unexpected value. Drop Pod deterrants. I could place them next to objectives and vulnrable units and watch them decimate any squad that came out with their ability to shoot three guns. In the IG game they just shot tanks from the back and shook/stunned most of the time. SW game my opponent poded right into them and got a nasty surprise. 3 guns from each pretty much decimated his squad. Id like to test these guys again, not only for their range but what they do for drop pod protection.

Trygon Prime- A+ This guy did absolutely amazing. SW game he came in a little late but managed to shoot down 2 termies. He was charged after that and wiped the other 3. Next turn he charges and blows up a LR. Guard game he pretty much sat in the back assaulting squad after squad of IG guys. He is an infantry killing machine. 12 shot gun and 7 attacks on the charge make him a beast. Ill be using him again.

I think I did well because I had such hard targets that all posed large threats. My opponent couldnt shoot most of it down. If he focused he left himself open to all the other threats, and if he spread fire out he didnt kill anything.

Side note, credit to my drop pod for killing a termie before having his butt handed to him.

Anyways just thought id share.

Interesting note about the Tyrannofex. I hadn't considered it as an objective holder, but it makes sense. Good find!

Some more notes:

-attaching an alpha warrior to a zoanathrope squad makes it reasonably hard to wipe them out in one shooting phase with s8-9 heavy weapons, expecially if you give it regen, it /may/ be worth a look but you are dropping 3 killpoints in your opponents back yard, if someone mathhammers is out and they can destroy /two/ tanks now instead of one it would be worth it I think, if only for the "omg kill it!" for 2 shooting phases instead of 1 giving the rest of your army some relief.

-reply to above: gaunts awesomeness is directly relational to their support, they aren't marines, dropping a pod in the open will get them all wiped out, putting them in cover is better, with cover and feel no pain they are probably the best shooting units for the points in the game.

-2 layers of gaunts in front of your tervigon helps against the "tank shock and terminator rush the tervi" nonsense

-gargoyles to surround transports and then popping them with zoans = win!

-biovores are pretty awesome, double-template+large blast tyrannofexes are pretty awesome too.

-spore mines are REALLY awesome, no one has touched on for 10-20 points you can deny your opponents infiltrate into 1-2 peices of cover by dropping a mine nearby.

Grundz wrote:gargoyles to surround transports and then popping them with zoans = win!

If by win you mean "Lots of of dead Gargoyles". AP1 makes an explosion way too likely IMO. However, popping them with Hive Guard in order to glance it to death or go for the wrecked result is definately something that might work.

Has anyone tried out the MC stampede? I'm thinking of something like this:

Swarmlord w/guards
Old Adversary fighting Tyrant w/guards
2 Trygons
Old One Eye
2 10 man Gaunt units
2 Tervigons
2 Venomthropes
2 Lictors
2 Lictors

It just runs up the board leaving a trail of spawned gaunts to creep onto objectives. All things are eaten by the monstrous throng.

How many points is that?

Gornall wrote:

Grundz wrote:gargoyles to surround transports and then popping them with zoans = win!

If by win you mean "Lots of of dead Gargoyles". AP1 makes an explosion way too likely IMO. However, popping them with Hive Guard in order to glance it to death or go for the wrecked result is definately something that might work.

ah, true, I didn't think of that, however in the game in question i was FNPing my gargs on the turn the transports started blowing.

Grundz wrote:-spore mines are REALLY awesome, no one has touched on for 10-20 points you can deny your opponents infiltrate into 1-2 peices of cover by dropping a mine nearby.

Feel free to tell us your thoughts on spore mines here.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/276129.page

GG

@Aduro: Not sure, think it fits in 2k, or almost does anyway. I don't have my codex here.

40kenthusiast wrote:Swarmlord w/guards
Old Adversary fighting Tyrant w/guards
2 Trygons
Old One Eye
2 10 man Gaunt units
2 Tervigons
2 Venomthropes
2 Lictors
2 Lictors

My "shooty" nid wall, is slowly morphing into something like this... Rather than outshoot the enemy, your shooting units need to just become less of a priority... your list may work, but I think that 48" range move and fire might get to hide almost indefinietely from you. Swapping in some tyrranofexes for the heavies you currently have might be the only change you need.

Check out this batrep to see how NOT beig aggressive with nids is probably not the way to go...

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/276490.page#1291843

That's a fun looking list 40ke. Its about 2250 as listed, so would have to drop the tyrant or old one eye to get to 2k.

I think that 48" range move and fire might get to hide almost indefinietely from you.

Lictors help with that, especially with the rest bearing down on the enemy. I see that as their role --troubleshooting for the more agressive style army.

winterman wrote:Lictors help with that, especially with the rest bearing down on the enemy. I see that as their role --troubleshooting for the more agressive style army.

they do at that.... Hmmm. do my hive guard become lictors? Or do my t-fexes and hive guard become lictors and mawlocs? Such a fun codex!

Isn't it though!

Well this is my review after playing some test games and playing some against Tyranids.

HQs
Hive Tyrant - so expensive since he needs tyrant guard for surviability, but his make a unit ws1 power and prefered enemy complete the SUPER gaunt pacakage and if your running a peekaboo list you have to run him to get that +1 reserves roll His old armament of venom cannon and devourers is gimped. The Heavy Venom Cannon is a bad. Its worse then bs 3 las cannon with one shot and -1 to the damage table. MC Devourers don't seem worth it because you have to give up talons or bonesword which make you good in CC. Psyker powers are good like making enemy unit ws1 to assault them with super gaunts but range 12 so likely in Librarian hood range. You want him to complete the SUPER gaunt package at the very least but he is expensive and doesn't make his points back directly.
Rating: B+

Swarmlord - haven't actually tried him but he seems really expensive. I seen him used and he can be good if there is a city scape to give him cover but he takes awhile to see combat and its hard to make up his huge points cost when you have to buy him tyrant guard to keep him alive and he takes awhile to make it into close combat range. He does make gaunts super and can cast 2 psyker powers and kicks ass in assault with the ability to counter other hard assault units but is he worth the points.
Rating: B


Tyranid Prime - a cheap HQ who is pretty good in combat with boneswords and adds more wounds to hive guard, zoanthropes or venomthropes that aren't insta killed by strength 8. Haven't actually tired him with Warriors yet.
Rating A-



Elites
Hiveguard: Each unit of 3 gets 6 Strength 8 shots at 24 inches which has a good shot at taking out a transport or at least stunning it. Hive Guard also give much needed cover to your Tervigons behind them and get cover from the Gaunts in front of them.
Rating: A

Deathleaper: main reason to take him is he can give a psyker -d3 leadership so it is easier to get off your Catalyst through their psychic hoods and so the psyker isn't as effective in getting off certain nasty powers like Jaws of the Warp Wolf. He can pop up anywhere so can be used to pick of lone characters or to contest a corner. Has been somewhat lackluster when opponent does not have a psyker. Whether he is worth it really depends on how much psykers there are in your area and if you are taking Zoanthropes, Hive Tyrants and Tervigons that need to get their powers off through hoods.
Rating: B

Zoanthropes - They sound awesome on paper but I tried them and not very effective between Mystics, Hoods, Runic Weapons and the fact that they often get dead after you trade them for a transport. Good trade vs a Land Raider bad trade vs cheap transports. Been leaning towards Hive guard instead of Zoanthropes and just praying the T-fex comes through or bashing the land raider in CC. Might be worth running 1 unit just to kill Raiders but not even that reliable unless you run 3. You pod in, one gets blocked by the hood, maybe one misses or flubs the psyker test and the 3rd hits and has to pen and you get a kill half the time with AP1.
Rating: B-

Venomthropes - these are the easy mans cover from a custom force field. Not sure if they worth running since you can make your own cover but Shep got me to try them, they seem ok in that they give you a 5+ cover to your mcs when your cover giving gaunt wall or hive guard might have gotten shot up. They do get insta killed by strength 8 though and are not cheap.
Rating: B

elite stealers - No assault grenades and must start in terrain????? Wow these are terrible. Take Hive Guard, Deathleaper, Venonthropes and maybe Zoanthropes before them.
Rating: F

Troops
Termagaunts - These guys are so awesome in combination with a Tervigon and you are required to take a brood to take a troops Tervigon. optimal size is probably 20-25. 30 is great for maximizing attacks against uber units but might actually be too many as it can be hard to get all in 2 inches to fight and I found my deployment zone pretty cramped and they get hurt by templates. Maybe 20 is a better numaber. Although a large number is really good for overwelming terminators and marines. Go Go Super gaunts with furious charge, poison, feels no pain and prefered enemy. Two of these units of 20+ with 2 tervigons seems like the troops core. Only issue here is no grenades but what do you want for their cheap cost.
Rating: A

Tervigon: This guy is the man. He makes gaunts super and makes more gaunts and scores assuming you took a brood of termagaunts for him to make super. Has the following required upgrades. Adrenal Glands for furious charge, toxin sacs for poison, catalyst for giving out feels no pain (this can go to gaunts or it can go to hive guard or the terivgon depending on what type of fire power the opponent has), With a cover save from Hive Guard in front and possibly giving themselves FNP vs missle launcher spam they are tough to kill execpt to Jaws and concentrated fire. Crushing Claws and Regeneration are optional since he costs alot already.
Rating: A+


Warriors - Tried these guys and they reallly didn't do much having to hug cover to not just insta killed by strength 8+ and fairly pricey for what they do. Bonesword warriors seem decent but have to make it to close combat and get nailed by assault termintors. deathspitter warriors were pretty lackluster.
Rating: C

Hormagaunts - haven't tried them but they get no bonus from Tervigons and are more expensive then termagaunts so don't seem worth it.
Rating: NA

Genestealers - Tried these a couple games and they are terrible. these need to make up their points in one round when they come in vs outflank because they probably will get shot after that. No flesh hooks for grenades means you need to run a bigger squad since you might lose some before swinging assaulting things in cover so drives cost up and makes you more vulnerable if your opponent castles up in the middle.
Rating: F

Fast Attack
Gargoyles - might be worth trying because they are fast and cheapbut are not scoring and don't get benefit from Tervigons so I haven't tried them

Raveners - tried them but not very good the strength 8 insta kills hurt and they might not appear after the tunnel and not being able to assault the turn they pop up means they can get shot up before doinga nything.
Rating: F

Harpies - MC where Strength 10 insta kills them so they get smoked by Demolisher Cannons, Manticores, Tyranofexes. They also have a 4+ save so get owned by Auto Cannons. No thanks. Also the venom cannon is rather bad worse then bs 3 las cannon with its -1 to the damage table 3 attacks is also sort of gimp.

Heavy
Tryanofex - he is really expensive but he does the old gunfexs job of keep the opponents threatening vehicles shaken and hopefully kill them. Vendettas or Las cannon Predators are bad news the Tyranofex surpresses them just like the old Gunfex did. T-fex falls a bit short of the old gunfex because it costs more and lacks the barb strangler for anti horde or insta killing nob duty. Very expensive but no other way to keep Vendettas or predators from barbequing your Tervigons otherwise. sometimes seems not worth it when he misses twice or just doesn't get a kill all game but seems like might necessary points sink.
Rating: B+

The Try Gone (Trygon) pops up and TRYs by shoots some strength 5 and stuns a rhino and then gets shot and GONE. Bad in testing.
Rating: F unless you have 3 with 2 tyrants then a C+

The More Luck (Mawloc). You really need to cross your fingers and your toes for more luck with this guy as he pops up and probably scatters off its target or is one strength 6 hit on a vehicle vs rear armor 10 and unless you are really lucky he does nothing and then gets shot and gone. he can't even fight well either.
Rating: F

The screamer killer carnifex pods in and either stands around looking dumb as it gets shot to death and even if you don't get shot to death in one round vehicles can move faster then you and are hit on 6s if they move 12.
Rating: F

The dakka fex pods in stuns or maybe kills a vehicle and then get lit up and dead.
Rating: F

The gunfex doesn't exist anymore sniffle. :(

Biovores - these might be worth it for anti horde and killing back field units like lootas or 5 missle long fangs but need baby sitting of synapse and are no good vs all mech armies till you crack open a vehicle. finding points is also tough.
Rating: NA

Well I played a couple of test games on tuesday and wednesday. Tuesday my list was so bad I got hammered twice. Wednesday I made some adjustments and kicked some serious butt. It was only 1k, but I figure at 1.5k the list becomes absolutely lethal, and at 2k I may need to rethink some options. Here's the list:

Tyrant
Wings
Hive commnader
Paroxysm
Life leech

Doom of Malantai in a pod

Tervigon

11 gaunts

Trygon

Trygon

Everything starts in reserve (deepstriking lots ot stuff, Tervigon outflanks) in objective games...haven't played KP's yet.

Against a (bad) Eldar list I tabled him. Against Tau he had trouble bringing down 1 MC a turn. I played extremely aggressively and the only reason he could force a draw was because he could jump into range of the objective I was holding with gaunts (spawned by tervigon) and the doom. Against another army I feel it would be much more damaging.

Each unit is designed to help each other. Unfortunately I can't fit FnP on the tervigon, but I think in such an aggressive list thats ok. Doom really helps with area denial, and if they want to deal with him it has to be a heavy weapon. Once he starts absorbing wounds small arms fire won't do anything, so he takes away heavy weapons fire from the MC's. Paroxysm reduces losing wounds to devasators, IG blobs and Tau suits quite effectively.

So tyrannofexes aren't compulsory. BUT, I feel that this is one list that just doesn't need them. Tyrannofexes in footsloggers probably work better, but when you have everything DSing in (and in such small games) I think the slightly cheaper and more "in your face" trygons work better.

Why do people keep sayi g the Elite Stealers need to start in terrain? Their rules say the May start in terrain.

I don't know, but mine will be. I think they have potential to tie up/hurt units that could be shooting my MC's. Not every unit is going to be in cover, and with a potential 18" threat range they will have a lot of targets to choose.

I realized in a 3k non-Apoc game I can take 120 Stealers w/6 Broodlords all with Talons and Sacs, Tyranid Prime, Trygon and 3 Hive Guard/Zoanthropes or 6 Ymgarl to continue the theme.

Sure not a competitive list to be sure but it'd be damn fun to see that many 'stealers on the board, not to mention it would scare the crap out of my opponents.

Of course, they'd be able to take 6 land raiders, 30 terminators, and any and all special characters they wanted at 3000 points.

Horde armies with specialist anti-tank units don't scale up very well.

Lucky for me only one of my opponents has more than one LR and he has 2.

Terminators aren't all that frightening. TH/SS termies CAN be but the problem with them is that once their LR is wrecked they walk around all game.

Walking terminators with CC weapons aren't scary. SB/PF termies are but they die a lot easier in cc than Thunderstorm terminators.

I dont see why mawlocs get such bad rep. On an average scatter they should at least touch the edge of a vehicle with their large blast then its a 4+ for a glance (vs the rear armour of anything).

Outflanking hormagants. Moar troops, deployed away-away from the main engines of your army, very fast and very fighty.

Does anyone use the Tyrant offensively?

Had a couple games with the new book so far. One versus a Fire Warrior heavy Tau player and another against IG. Both were tooled to burn my bugs but both games went very differently. The Tau game was a rout. Utterly ridiculous, I won't even go into details. I just annihilated the poor blueface. Thanks to the Doom of Malantai (in Pod) for that. For the IG game, this is what I faced:

CCS in Chimera, all flamers
Vets in Chimera, all flamers
Vets in Chimera, all flamers
PCS in Chimera, all flamers
3x Infantry Squads, GL + HB
5x Stormies, 2 Plasmaguns
1x Sly Marbo
2x Hydras (separate units)
3x Leman Russes (squadron)

I used:

Prime, boneswords and regen
5x Warriors
20x Termigants
20x Termigants
2x Tervigons, sacs and glands
10x Genestealers in pod
3x Zoanthropes in pod
2x Venomthropes
3x Hive Guard

We rolled Dawn of War and Seize Ground (3 objectives) so I assumed the worst. He setup first, I setup nothing at all. It went seven turns. The fight was harsh but I won 2 to 0. Here's how I hate the team.

Tyranid Prime: B : I wanted a cheap HQ and he fit the bill. His increase of the Warriors BS assisted in mopping up Deep Strikers (Stormies and Sly) but otherwise he didnt do much. I also forgot I bought him Regeneration, which barely would have improved his survivability (which was high, he died turn seven leaving a single Warrior to hold my objective)

Warriors: C+ : As with the Prime, they didn't do much but draw a lot of fire. Which was fine since that sat in cover. Their volume of fire is enough that I will continue to take this group of five, naked, because they are just cheap enough to be reasonable to me. Granted, for 50 points more a SM player can get 5 Terminators but thats fine.

Termigants: B : They soaked up shots and burned up A LOT. This was fine with me since I needed bugs for my Tervigons to spit out (forgot my extra pile at home) but once the Tervigons hit menopause the Termigants stopped flooding the board. Since it was Dawn of War they had to foot-slog much farther than usual. In a normal game, they reach assaults, and with the Tervigons behind them, they get Furious Charge and Poison, so they have their ups.

Tervigons: B+ : This unit was great for throwing around Catalyst and Dominion, and giving a better "Without Number" than the last codex (primarily, IMHO, because you can deploy 6" ahead of the MC, then move 6" then mabe even assault 6"; instead of walking on from the board edge). Unfortunately, once my opponent downed one of the Mommas, 30 Termigants died. That rule is a real weakness, and something most opponents will exploit.

Genestealers: A- : They podded where I wanted, and wiped Guardsmen off an isolated objective. Nothing fancy, but they did they're job (in both games). Since okay in my book.

Zoanthropes: A+ : Podded behind the Russ squadron (and yes, my opponent pointed out since I have a Lance weapon I didnt need to drop behind him, but it was a force of habit from other armies) and nuked 2 right off. Since it was an objective game, my opponent forwent shooting them and focused on my bugs. For this, the Zoanthropes continued to harass and destroy more of his vehicles.

Venomthropes: B- : The cover save isn't all that spectacular and when my opponent got tired of it, he just wiped those two out. Plus since neither opponent would assault any unit under the Venomthropes' effects, I dont know yet how effective defensive grenades and the dangerous terrain test to assault is.

Hive Guard: B +: They did alright but I had a disagreement with my opponent over cover saves for vehicles shot by Hive Guard. I would rate them better or worse based on the result of this following discussion:

If a Vehicle, not in or touching terrain, is shot by Hive Guard that have no LOS to the vehicle; does the vehicle gain a 4+ cover save for being 100% obscured?

Thats my take on the book so far guys! Enjoy.

Aduro wrote:Why do people keep sayi g the Elite Stealers need to start in terrain? Their rules say the May start in terrain.

they don't have to, but its a nice bonus.

I don't see the big deal, you move them out of terrain and then assault something, no terrain test on the assault move generally so the grenades are moot The targets they are attacking are either 6" move vehicles or heavy weapon teams, not exactly something you are worried about losing cc against.

used them twice so far, both times to wreck backline tanks placed out of outflank range, they may not "make back points" which is what everyone seems to be obsessed with. but being able to reach, catch and destroy backline heavy weapons to give bigger critters some relief is worth the cost. A decently placed , large piece of terrain in your enemies backyard near the middle can give them a pretty good threat radius on the turn they deploy.

Hive Guard: B +: They did alright but I had a disagreement with my opponent over cover saves for vehicles shot by Hive Guard. I would rate them better or worse based on the result of this following discussion:

If a Vehicle, not in or touching terrain, is shot by Hive Guard that have no LOS to the vehicle; does the vehicle gain a 4+ cover save for being 100% obscured?

Thats my take on the book so far guys! Enjoy.

Alright had a few games with them. Pure nurgle chaos demons with tallyman are fething slowed against nids. Oh look I killed your gaunts everything now has 2+ to wound power weapons. Buh bye carnifex. So heres what ive used. All games have either been against demons or orks, so these are largely monster bash games.

Swarmlord and 2 tyrant guard, A: these guys are awesome. Paroxysm is monstrously powerful. Cast it on gaz, a warboss, and the 3 mega nobs they were attached too. He killed the boss and a nob, passed all 5 invuln saves and routed the unit, running them down. Even when he rolls bad hes killed things like Kugath. Fails his psychic tests like crazy, I had him fail like 5 out of 10 checks in one game today.

Zoanthropes, C: havent really used them against what they are meant to be used against. But they do what they need, show up, asplode something and die.

Termagaunts, B: use them as a screening unit, to prevent charges and they do pretty well.

Devourer gaunts in pod, A/C: These are hit or miss. With good rolling and against something like ork boyz you will make your opponent fear them. Against something like plague bearers they are a joke. Very situational, but still pretty awesome.

Genestealers, B: They took a lot of oomph out of them. But if used to outflank and assassinate a single enemy unit they can pay for themselves. Ive had them take out princes, boyz squads, and so on.

Gargoyles, B: Run them with adrenal glands and toxin sacs. For the points they hit hard, but are very situational. They will die, and rely on you causing massive damage to survive combat. Gave them preferred enemy from swarmlord and they took out a nurgle prince in one round. Charged them into gaz and friends and they did no damage, losing all models to wounds or combat resolution.

Trygon prime, B: I like this guy. I dunno if hes entirely worth his points, but he can hit very hard in combat. I use him as a support unit more then anything.

Mawloc, C: I have deep struck this guy roughly 10 times, he has hit once, and everytime he scatters its been at least 7 inches. With that said he has rarely done anything. Still a fun unit, and against some units he might work fairly well. Pisses people off because he rarely dies in one round, and can hit and run away, and come back later to eat more guys

Carnifex in spod, A: Run him with claws, devourers, and bio plasmaThis guy has not let me down. Everytime he has done bad was either because of terrible rolling, or 2+ to wound nurgle power weapons. Have used him in two games. In one he took out a battle wagon, a 12 man boyz mob, and a trukk. His spod killed another trukk. Against demons he killed like 10 plague bearers over 2 rounds with shooting, and was 1/6 or so of an inch out of charge range. Got ran over when the tally was up all the way.

Epi list is very situational though. It struggles against Mech like other daemon armies, moreso as vehicles don't add to tally so you need to crack transports before the tally even begins.

I played 2 games at 2500pts. List I took:

Tyrant w/Bonesword, LW, Stranglethorn and Paroxysm/Life Leech/2+ save
2 Tyrant Guard
2 Lictors in a brood
Deathleaper
2x 10 Stealers with talons and sacs, bl's.
1 x 10 Stealers with sacs, bl with talons.
12 Gaunts with sacs/glands
4 Raveners with 2x talons, spitters
Spore Cluster
Trygon Prime with Regen and Adrenal
Carnifex with 2x talons, bio, grenades, adrenal
OOE.
Tyranid Prime with Talons, RC's and Regen.

Tyrant and TG: A+. These guys in both games walked through everything they assaulted. 5 man terminator squad with Kassaro Khan, 10 man ass. squad with jump chaplain, 5 man vanguard vet squad. Between both games they took a total of 3 wounds. Paroxysm in combo with Lash whip is just sick; Life Leech hit 3 times the one time I had to use it but failed to kill even a single Marine.

Deathleaper: B. He minced a couple of squads between both games, generally made a nuisance of himself. Against a Marine army with a Libby I can see him being useful.

Lictor Brood. C. They actually survive quite well so long as they are in cover and if your opponent deploys some Devs near the board edge they are great to pop up behind them and through their hooks or other army shooting will ensure any squad that breaks won't regroup before falling off the board. 3 wounds helps them survive against more non-S8 weaponry. They just didn't do much for me those games.

Stealers with BL's: A. They still hit hard as hell and the BL's ability to shut down any one model in base to keep it from attacking is really crippling, especially IC's who HAVE to be in base once the BL is alone. There are ways around the BL ability but if no suitable IC or model is in base than use the LD lowering one......good in the opponents turn to ensure extra "no retreats". Flamers and bolt weapons kill them faster but I face so many AP4 guns against IG that in the old dex I paid 48pts more per brood to die just as fast.

Tyranid Prime: A-. I could see him being an A+ with pair of swords or lash and sword. He dies to terminators and ID weapons pretty easy though (Khan ID'd him with Moonfang) but against power armor or anything else he'll just murder squads (he ran with the carnifex to ensure I didnt need to make IB tests for the Carnifex).

OOE: B. Pretty damn beastly and wrecked everything he assaulted. His 5+ regen did fail me once though but everytime he assaulted he got anywhere from 8-12 hits. He wrecks dreadnaughts and other vehicles that he can get into assault with.

Carnifex: B. Hits hard and often if getting charge and with Prime attached didn't have the urge to just chase things around the board. Without the charge though he is so much fist bait. With the charge he'll wreck PF termies. Never did get to shoot it's plasma because I either forgot or got charged.

Horms: D. 12 isn't enough but it's what I had assembled. I could see taking 30 of them or more how they COULD wreck marine squads if you give them Glands and Toxin. They assaulted a razorback and shook it, then died to bolt pistol/flamer fire.

Trygon: C. Didn't play him aggressive enough so got shot down both games without doing much (though facing 6 LC's and 2 Kraks in one turn and coming out with 1 wound left was pretty lucky. Then his regen failed to kick in and he was killed on turn 3 and only wrecked a dreadnaught.

Raveners: D. Assaulted terminators with TH which is a bad thing to do. Even causing 12 wounds on the terminators they failed one and then proceeded to pound them into the dirt.

Spore Cluster: F. They killed 2 VG the first game when one drifted into them and then that was it.

Overall I like what the codex has done with my army. I know when I use the Trygon like it's a big bad T6 6W monster and not treat it like it couldn't fight its way out of a paper bag he'll get elevated to an A.

Tyrant and TG cost me 370pts but they made their points back and then some and would have proceeded to wreck more stuff if the games had gone longer (both ended on turn 5). Definately will see a place in my lists until I get enough Warriors to put them into 2 squads and run 2 primes.

The only thing I'd get rid of at this point are spore clusters. 50pts would have bought Regen for the carnifex and bought one of the 25pt template weapons for the tyrant and those would have been more helpful.

Overall I'm definately impressed with the codex and my army now. Eventually I'll get some HG (soon as GW gets more available), probably a BS and LW from Chapterhouse Studios for the Prime and then pumping my Horms to 20+. Then there is the need for a Mawloc, 6-9 Warriors, 20 Gargoyles, some Shrikes and more Raveners.

I'll have to play Apoc games to take everything I want to.

Played my Tyranids in the Cabin Fever tournament in Harrisburg, PA this weekend. I won 2nd place overall. Below is my army. Yes, some stuff is less than ideal and some things are just flatout stupid (Tyrant loadout, I'm looking at you). However, with the Hive Guards to paint and assorted minor updating projects, I simply ran out of time on some things.

Hive Tyrant - Scything Talons, Heavy Venom Cannon, Adrenal Glands, Old Adversary, Paroxysm, Leech Essence
2 Tyrant Guards
3 Hive Guards
3 Hive Guards
2 Zoanthropes
Tervigon - Cluster spines, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Catalyst
12 Termagants
9 Genestealers
5 Tyranid Warriors - Scything Talons, 4 Deathspitters, Adrenal Glands, Barbed Strangler
20 Hormagaunts - Toxin Sacs
20 Hormagaunts - Toxin Sacs
14 Gargoyles
2 Biovores

The tourney used a scoring system similar to our Mechanicon rules, which make massacres and big wins harder to attain and create more of a bell curve in scores. I actually finished 3-2, but my wins were big ones, so my battle points were still pretty good. Throw in my strong soft scores and I just barely eked out 2nd. It was close at the top. The results were interesting in that no one ended up 5-0.

Everyone I faced was an experienced vet -- definitely didn't face any scrubs, which was a nice gaming experience. The armies there were all solid, although I think only a few were truly top tier competitive (more on that later). Wins were vs. bike marines, Biel-tan Eldar and Khan marines (finished 3rd overall). I lost a game vs. dual lash Khorne with Oblits because we only got 3 turns in. The hammer was about to fall on Khorne in turn 4, but it was what it was. I didn't have problems finishing my other games. One more turn would likely have won me the tourney, but c'est la vie. Object lesson there was to keep that mental clock running and inject the proper amount of urgency into the game when needed.

I also received a major league buttwhipping vs. Rob Baer's orky mech IG. It was IMO the strongest army there and Rob plays it extremely well (he won overall). I told Rob on the first day that I was hoping to avoid his army, as it was pretty much a rock (nay, boulder) to my scissors. Rob's Manticores and Vendettas gave him the alpha strike capacity to take out my ability to hurt him, and after that it just became a cakewalk. I tried the best I could to contest objectives and give him a game, but it was really over by the end of turn 2. Note that I had an enjoyable game, all things considered. I'd happily play Rob again anytime, although next time I'd bring a harder army and try to give him a better game.

Anyway, that brings me to my findings for the weekend. I think my experience mostly underlines what Shep and Mahu have found. Against top tier armies, it's just imperative that you have the ability to take down their key stuff before they take down yours. Players are only going to get smarter regarding their targeting priority vs. Tyranids. So you need long-ranged firepower in the form of Tyrannofexes and/or other methods of getting close and removing threats. Against mid-level armies, I think Tyranids are quite powerful and likely have many viable builds.

And I'm more convinced all the time that the biggest mistake the studio made was that they thought HVCs were going to be viable antitank. They're available on the right units...they just aren't good, which has forced players to look to the Tyrannofex. A costly error in the codex, methinks.

Regarding units:

- Although a walking Tyrant with TGs was (obviously) far more durable than a winged one and a handful for most armies to deal with, slogging means their buff psychics and abilities just don't come into play as often as you'd like. No real answer here, just something to keep in mind.
Might be a point in the Tyranid Prime's column.

- Loved my Hormagaunts...they can kill just about anything. Although that thing is vehicles, which is why I'll consider swapping the sacs for glands for my February circuit event.

- Hive Guards are stars. There are certainly matchups in which they aren't terribly good, but they're more flexible than I had been giving them credit for. It's not hard finding situations in which multiple S8 shots that ignore LOS are handy.

- I'm both impressed by Tervigons and convinced that I'll never run more than two. I think the old line about "does what it says on the can" applies here.

- Biovores continue to be relentless and solid performers. They're rapidly becoming more of a mainstay for me.

- If you want to get any mileage out of Genestealers' alternative deployment methods, you really need to have multiple units.

- Warriors are solid overall. But like with many things Tyranidy, matchups are key. Deathspitters really are nice weapons if you find the range. Manticores and other high S pieplates may not let you do that, though.

- Gargoyles contributed nothing other than a cheap fast cover save. They're pretty good at doing that, however.

Adjustments for the next tournament are underway...

A few things I found are:

Tyrant: Really situational. If fighting a CC opponent, he is amazing (Held up Abbaon and a Chaos Termy unit for a turn, and they got the charge), but fails to make his points back against shooters.

Tyranid Prime: This guy+warriors=dead enemy assault units. During my last game he lead the warriors through two Khorne Berzerkers units. Other than the alpha warrior rule, he really just seems to be an above average IC.

Warriors: Great fire sinks. Place that one Instant death hit on the prime (Assumeing S8-9), and soak up the anti-infantry firepower. Sure, your opponent can turn AT squads on you, but then they aren't shooting your MC's. All games, they have managed to not only draw lots of shooting, but inflict heavy casualties as well. Definately need Bonesword if you want them CC.

Trygon Prime: ammazing. First game, he never once got into CC, purely because he wiped out everything via shooting. Next game, he killed 3 Chaos Termies, a Land Raider, and a Defiler. My opponent surrendered just before I assaulted the Havocs. I want another one.