Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hellfury wrote:Just to add fuel to the GW hate, I saw this posted at Warseer in a thread about the possible decline of GW:

Speaking to a GW manager yesterday
- according to him they were told that 'southern hemisphere embargo' is just the start of a concerted attack on independents. Next they will be trying to enforce independents selling GW at full rrp

- SGs are staying as metals

- most staff are going on training specifically to defend finecast+price rises+etc
Defence will be
- Australian cost of living is much higher
- independents undercutting them means this store will have to close
- PP etc will soon increase prices
- resin detail is amaaazing
- reduced resin-metal price is offset by retooling, repackaging

Add vast amounts of salt if you like since this is as best 4th hand info. But if true this could have disturbing consequences.

Normally I would discount this as just pure anti GW ranting. But given GW's past history of controlling how their product is sold even going so far as to be illegal (online retailers were not required to remove their pictures and discounts from their site in the U.S. but a year latter the supreme court ruled in favor of this in regards to Disney products, thus making GW's crap legal) I would not be the least bit surprised if this could actually be a possibility.

They can train all they want. Those who were raised to think for themselves dont believe most of what a Red Shirt says anyway.

Sidstyler wrote:...yeah...why does GW hate everyone so much? Is it a British thing?

We don't like countries with better weather than us... ie all of them.

It would be illegal for GW to restrict sales to other markets within the EU and from an EU country.

Good job they arent doing that. The EU DOES allow TM and C holders to restrict the import and export of goods, by companies, to/from the EEA.

Which is what theyre doing. No cries of "its illegal!" will wash, as this is tried and tested case law.

Additionally: there has always been price disparity in locations, based on what the market will bear in each location. Do you really think MS charge the same for Office in the US as they do in India?

All theyre doing is making the marginal cost (i.e not the cost relative to eachother) equivalent around the world, by enforcing the regionalisation.

Yes, this means you are paying more AUD than you were; however you should be (and not going into the mean vs median, miners distorting figures argument right now) now paying the same cost relative to disposable income as anyone else.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Yes, this means you are paying more AUD than you were; however you should be (and not going into the mean vs median, miners distorting figures argument right now) now paying the same cost relative to disposable income as anyone else.

From each according to their ability, to each according to their need, eh, comrade?

First I acknowledge that this is 4th hand information.

Maybe Australian law cannot change a trade embargo in Europe, but if there is an attack on independents of this kind and it can be proven, "price fixing" is a serious crime in Australia and the authorities will investigate. GW cannot dictate what price the independent retailers sell at especially since they are also in the retail space. My FLGS sells his stock at 10% flat below GW retail prices, that's one reason I support him.

Speaking to a GW manager yesterday
- according to him they were told that 'southern hemisphere embargo' is just the start of a concerted attack on independents. Next they will be trying to enforce independents selling GW at full rrp
- independents undercutting them means this store will have to close

GW can force FLGS to increase the price. They just sell the models to the LGS at a higher price. GW still makes up such a large percentage of sales that they will keep stocking them.

Will they though? There comes a point where the gap between profit and just breaking even becomes so close that there is no point in stocking GW products at all.

4M2A wrote:GW can force FLGS to increase the price. They just sell the models to the LGS at a higher price. GW still makes up such a large percentage of sales that they will keep stocking them.

That's assuming that your local FLGS makes most of its profit via GW stuff.

Out of the 3 FLGS's that I can drive to within a decent amount of time (I know, I'm so damn lucky!), none of them rely on Games Workshop to bring in the bread.

Cyborg 1 sells mostly comics and CCG's, and has actually be expanding. Within the past half-year, they've started carrying Warmachine, Malifaux, and Flames of War.

Brave New Worlds sells mostly comics, Geek paraphernalia, and RPGs. They run weekly Kill-team games, but you don't need to buy much to have a fully functional kill team.

7th Dimension Games sells board games, CCGs, Warmachine, Flames of War, and Dystopian Wars. The owner has just bought into GW, and only 40k, since he doesn't get much interest in it.

And how could I forget my college FLGS?! Redcap's Corner does have a prominent GW presence, but they're now buying Warmachine from their stockist. And again, most of their income comes from RPGS, board games, and CCGs.

From what I hear most FLGS owners saying, in RL and on the web is that GW games make a very large portion of their profit. There is a lot of room for GW to increase the cost while still keeping it viable for LGS to stock them.

They don't need to increase the cost close to GW store costs. Even a small increase will enocourage people to buy from GW.

4M2A wrote:From what I hear most FLGS owners saying, in RL and on the web is that GW games make a very large portion of their profit. There is a lot of room for GW to increase the cost while still keeping it viable for LGS to stock them.

They don't need to increase the cost close to GW store costs. Even a small increase will enocourage people to buy from GW.

Well, that's another thing. The store I go to all sell at MSRP prices, the same prices I would pay if I ever visited the local GW store.

What separates the other stores is that they actually have these event's called 'sales'. When my FLGS offers 20%-30% off, then I'll happy purchase some GW models from them.

Not that that's happening now. I'm going to see if they've got any good Pathfinder items.

infinite_array wrote:

4M2A wrote:GW can force FLGS to increase the price. They just sell the models to the LGS at a higher price. GW still makes up such a large percentage of sales that they will keep stocking them.

That's assuming that your local FLGS makes most of its profit via GW stuff.

Out of the 3 FLGS's that I can drive to within a decent amount of time (I know, I'm so damn lucky!), none of them rely on Games Workshop to bring in the bread.

Cyborg 1 sells mostly comics and CCG's, and has actually be expanding. Within the past half-year, they've started carrying Warmachine, Malifaux, and Flames of War.

Whoa, whoa, another Cyborg 1 gamer? Were you there this Sunday for the tournament?

severedblue wrote:First I acknowledge that this is 4th hand information.

Maybe Australian law cannot change a trade embargo in Europe, but if there is an attack on independents of this kind and it can be proven, "price fixing" is a serious crime in Australia and the authorities will investigate. GW cannot dictate what price the independent retailers sell at especially since they are also in the retail space. My FLGS sells his stock at 10% flat below GW retail prices, that's one reason I support him.

Speaking to a GW manager yesterday
- according to him they were told that 'southern hemisphere embargo' is just the start of a concerted attack on independents. Next they will be trying to enforce independents selling GW at full rrp
- independents undercutting them means this store will have to close

The thing is will the Australian trading authority back GWs stance, since it will support the sale of goods in country or support the consumer since they are restricted from buying outside of their own borders.

Anecdotally I understand that they can not do the latter since it is a Uk based issue and there already appears to be the same thing going on in other sectors (Electrical goods?).

DiscoVader wrote:

infinite_array wrote:

4M2A wrote:GW can force FLGS to increase the price. They just sell the models to the LGS at a higher price. GW still makes up such a large percentage of sales that they will keep stocking them.

That's assuming that your local FLGS makes most of its profit via GW stuff.

Out of the 3 FLGS's that I can drive to within a decent amount of time (I know, I'm so damn lucky!), none of them rely on Games Workshop to bring in the bread.

Cyborg 1 sells mostly comics and CCG's, and has actually be expanding. Within the past half-year, they've started carrying Warmachine, Malifaux, and Flames of War.

Whoa, whoa, another Cyborg 1 gamer? Were you there this Sunday for the tournament?

Egads, small world... I was there (with my Dark Eldar), you?

But that's a good point about how much pull GW has on the independents: only as much as the customers let it have. My (our?) FLGS (shameless plug, Cyborg One has a sale on Monday, 30% off the whole store; give em a call beforehand if you're looking for something in particular) hasn't branched out into other games to spite GW, but because the patrons ask for it.

That's what is most interesting to me: if this negative energy can be translated into something positive: bringing an awareness and enthusiasm for other, competing games. And that's not just hating on GW, in the long run healthy competition is vital for an industry; just look at how the Detroit motor industry became complacent and then collapsed when genuine competition came in from overseas. Without credible competitors, GW will eventually convince itself that it can set any price it wants, that it doesn't need to be innovative, that it can simply ignore things like the internet and its effect on global commerce.

I'm not quite at the point that HBMC is at (of wanting GW to burn), I just want it to get better. And the only way that is going to happen is if GW realizes that it does not have a captive market, and the only way for that to happen is for people to be willing to try something outside of their comfort zones.

Absolutely agree with your points, for the industry as a whole it might be a good thing 10 years down the road. PP has managed to get a foothold, and is now available to most gamers in most places. This 'nudge' from GW might well help other companies take that next step up to the mainstream, but as well as that force GW to play ball in the future, and improve their own services as a result. Monopolisation of any industry is good for no-one.

And from another angle, I think a lot of people will try some new miniature ranges, get to paint some new things and have a new experience as a result. I think for those who have only played GW games, they certainly will have a pleasant surprise in store for them. It could well be what reinvigorates the hobby, and this year might see a surge in the overall growth of tabletop gaming as a result.

Buzzsaw wrote:I'm not quite at the point that HBMC is at (of wanting GW to burn), I just want it to get better. And the only way that is going to happen is if GW realizes that it does not have a captive market, and the only way for that to happen is for people to be willing to try something outside of their comfort zones.

And once, Buzzsaw, you come to the realisation that GW won't ever get better and that this latest gak fight is just another in a long line of letdowns, you'll start to see things as I do.

Buzzsaw wrote:

DiscoVader wrote:

infinite_array wrote:

4M2A wrote:GW can force FLGS to increase the price. They just sell the models to the LGS at a higher price. GW still makes up such a large percentage of sales that they will keep stocking them.

That's assuming that your local FLGS makes most of its profit via GW stuff.

Out of the 3 FLGS's that I can drive to within a decent amount of time (I know, I'm so damn lucky!), none of them rely on Games Workshop to bring in the bread.

Cyborg 1 sells mostly comics and CCG's, and has actually be expanding. Within the past half-year, they've started carrying Warmachine, Malifaux, and Flames of War.

Whoa, whoa, another Cyborg 1 gamer? Were you there this Sunday for the tournament?

Egads, small world... I was there (with my Dark Eldar), you?

Yup, though I wasn't able to take part in the tourny - I'm Joe, one of the Ork players. Pretty sure we've chatted plenty of times before, didn't realize you had a Dakka account!

Buzzsaw wrote:

I'm not quite at the point that HBMC is at (of wanting GW to burn), I just want it to get better.

Sometimes a thing has to burn before it can get better

missed the following quote:

according to him they were told that 'southern hemisphere embargo' is just the start of a concerted attack on independents. Next they will be trying to enforce independents selling GW at full rrp

ACCC would have a field day with that one in AU...

Looks like I got into warhahordes & kings of war at the right time. A C&D, embargo, price hike and even worse advertisement in the space of a few days, its almost like they want people to hate them. Time to move on to other systems and allow GW to go bankrupt and restructure or be forced to sell their IP to someone who will expand the hobby and support the game better.

A friend of mine just found something interesting. It's from here. The last line is the most interesting one:

Games Workshop wrote:Competition: There is no other retailer that competes directly with Games Workshop. However, as a distributor, we are mindful of not encroaching upon our third party retailers.

Also interesting is that their (revisionist) history carefully omits the fact that they once were just a distributor of other people's games. (x2)

Kalidane wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:


Photocopy your receipt and send it to GW with a covering letter to tell them why you are spending the money on Doctor Who.

Point out that obviously you are going to promote Doctor Who games with your friends rather than Warhammer.

Hmmm do you see this as the form of communication most likely to penetrate?

That's something I could bother to do. In May I've placed 4 orders with UK suppliers and spent zero on GW product.

If they are capable of understanding anything perhaps this is it.

Certainly all those Mantic undead and AoW Dwarves and a bunch of characters are clear analogues so they should get the point.

Yes, I do. It wasn't my idea and it's a really good idea.

Everyone agrees, whether pro- or anti-GW that as a commercial company they are interested in their sales. The only way to communicate your dissatisfaction is by showing that your wargame buying will be diverted from GW to rivals.

Sending your receipts with a covering letter of explanation, does that very directly. The letter needs to be polite and clearly state the situation.

If enough people stop buying GW, they will see a fall in revenues. If accompanied by this kind of letter, it will give GW pause for thought.

I don't believe we would see a quick change of heart because GW management appear quite arrogant about the way they think in regard to their customers.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Buzzsaw wrote:I'm not quite at the point that HBMC is at (of wanting GW to burn), I just want it to get better. And the only way that is going to happen is if GW realizes that it does not have a captive market, and the only way for that to happen is for people to be willing to try something outside of their comfort zones.

And once, Buzzsaw, you come to the realisation that GW won't ever get better and that this latest gak fight is just another in a long line of letdowns, you'll start to see things as I do.

Is it okay to hope that if GW burns, someone will buy the IP, and do good things to it?

Cause I'd hate to see my beloved 40k stagnate due to lack of updates, regardless of what I might think of GW's policies.

I wouldn't worry about that. GW may come and go, but 40K will live on.

H.B.M.C. wrote:I wouldn't worry about that. GW may come and go, but 40K will live on.

Yay! : D

Speaking to a GW manager yesterday
- according to him they were told that 'southern hemisphere embargo' is just the start of a concerted attack on independents. Next they will be trying to enforce independents selling GW at full rrp

Huge amounts of Salt should be applied. Managers only have 3rd hand infos in most cases as well.

Still, I wouldn´t be surprised at this.

Defence will be
- Australian cost of living is much higher
- independents undercutting them means this store will have to close
- PP etc will soon increase prices
- resin detail is amaaazing
- reduced resin-metal price is offset by retooling, repackaging

The whole defense arguments for GWs most recent actions seem rather dumb, if true, though.

Australian costs of living higher? Maybe, I don´t see how this justifies such a difference in price. If GW stores in Australia are not worth it they should try to support FLGSs more and leave the field to them. It works fine for companies like PP.
Independents undercutting hurts GW stores? Welcome to the free market.
PP etc will increase prices as well? Yeah, I´ll take the word of a competitor for it...
Resin detail is amazing? I know other manufacturers with far better resin miniatures.
Reduced price offset by retooling and repackaging? So an average increase of 15% (someone over in the Finecast thread calculated the average increase between all Finecast minis of the first batch) is due to repackaging and retooling? Maybe they should have stayed with the old blisters then.

Anyway, as I said, this stuff surely is to be taken with a whole mine of salt.

infinite_array wrote:

4M2A wrote:GW can force FLGS to increase the price. They just sell the models to the LGS at a higher price. GW still makes up such a large percentage of sales that they will keep stocking them.

That's assuming that your local FLGS makes most of its profit via GW stuff.

Out of the 3 FLGS's that I can drive to within a decent amount of time (I know, I'm so damn lucky!), none of them rely on Games Workshop to bring in the bread.

Cyborg 1 sells mostly comics and CCG's, and has actually be expanding. Within the past half-year, they've started carrying Warmachine, Malifaux, and Flames of War.

Brave New Worlds sells mostly comics, Geek paraphernalia, and RPGs. They run weekly Kill-team games, but you don't need to buy much to have a fully functional kill team.

7th Dimension Games sells board games, CCGs, Warmachine, Flames of War, and Dystopian Wars. The owner has just bought into GW, and only 40k, since he doesn't get much interest in it.

And how could I forget my college FLGS?! Redcap's Corner does have a prominent GW presence, but they're now buying Warmachine from their stockist. And again, most of their income comes from RPGS, board games, and CCGs.

I'm down a few more miles. Probably a half hour drive. One store does about 15% of it's business in GW, the other about 25%. Significant amount of the business, in the low 5 figures. The Granite Run store sells a bit less than the best of the 3 GW stores in the nearby area, and I think beats the other two. This is counting just my GW vs. their GW. Overall sales much higher than any of the GW stores.

Just go cold turkey on GW for 1 or 2 years, GW has lost about 1/5 or more of their sales since 2005, they are making up by jacking prices, just dont feed them any money for a while (yeah you, go paint those 100+ plastic gray models you have laying there). They should realize this is simply not a viable marketing tactic.

If GW begins a concerted effort to force independants to pay full RRP (and lets face it, off the back of the Battlefront/Maelstrom debacle there seems to be some precedent for this) - even if its something as simple as raising their trade prices to the point where the only way for indies to make any profit is to sell at RRP - then GW will have passed the point of no return.

I am already commited to not buying anything more from GW, in spite of the hate filled gaze of my half-finished Dark Eldar force sat on the painting table following their recent actions on price, embargoes, secrecy, C&Ds et al (not to mention their inability to sort out their rules, fluff, release schedules, etc) but this is just plain lunacy.

I pray that if this happens, indies can rally their customers to other games and then watch and laugh as GW drowns in the s**tstorm of their own devising. A company this morally bankrupt and contemptuous of its cutomers deserves nothing but failure.

Lets hope it happens soon.

Because I kept reading how GW charged through the nose for their products in Austria, I took a money conversion tool and went to GW Austria to check some prices. And I was dumbfounded by what I saw. Everything was easily 50, 60% more than their equivalents in US or european GW sites. Like that land raider at 106 AUD -> 111 USD.

Now I truly understand the anger at GW's last lunacy.

Just by the way, Austria is a different country to Australia