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I find it funny that the wolfen are getting a great deal now with their thunder hammers and storm shields but its twc people are trying to get better. I am with the others who agree RAW twc stay at 10 pts.

But yeah, i am super happy about wolfen. I am looking at them again thinking "you may just see real use again my friends..."

Are we less competitive after CA2018 just on the basis we “share” point reductions with armies already seeing success and got few unquie reductions? Wolf Guard Storm Shield Spam seems cute, but not being troops means they can’t functionally take the spot of GH... so to squeeze them in your cutting Wulfen or Long Fangs?? Not me!

Most of my list save around 50-75 points but other fractions are seeing a lot more!
So those points can go to more plasmas, or another Long Fang model. Maybe we squeeze in a Swiftclaw unit for objective grabbing??? Just not seeing what to make of these modest point reductions?? Help??

Azuza001 wrote:
I find it funny that the wolfen are getting a great deal now with their thunder hammers and storm shields but its twc people are trying to get better. I am with the others who agree RAW twc stay at 10 pts.

But yeah, i am super happy about wolfen. I am looking at them again thinking "you may just see real use again my friends..."

Well, I simply like TWC better as models and in the fluff than Wulfen So for me it kinda sucks that they aren't very good.

spacewolfguy wrote:
Are we less competitive after CA2018 just on the basis we “share” point reductions with armies already seeing success and got few unquie reductions? Wolf Guard Storm Shield Spam seems cute, but not being troops means they can’t functionally take the spot of GH... so to squeeze them in your cutting Wulfen or Long Fangs?? Not me!

Most of my list save around 50-75 points but other fractions are seeing a lot more!
So those points can go to more plasmas, or another Long Fang model. Maybe we squeeze in a Swiftclaw unit for objective grabbing??? Just not seeing what to make of these modest point reductions?? Help??

50-75 is quite a lot though. My lists only saves about 20ish points. 1ppm for 5 WG, 6 points because plasma guns are cheaper, 5 from the bikers WG (cheaper shields) and 12 from the wulfen basically.

-20 points for termies and land raider crusader at 266 points are interesting though. -10 points for the ven dread, but it actually doesn't change much in terms of points available as now the ven dread should be better options than the wulfen one and the list is now 10 points more expensive. Bjorn is 3 points cheaper, yeah. Long fangs now really have other anti tank options that aren't lascannons, this is one of the most interesting thing about CA for SW IMHO.

But basically my lists didn't change a bit.

With the cost changes to missile launchers have they finally pulled ahead of lascannons for long fangs?

I just bought 4 las cannon dudes before CA but now it seems that MLs doing 75% of the job vs kights but now at 75% of the cost firmly tips the balance in their favor (as they are the same against most other targets and they are not completely useless vs hordes).

Am I crazy? Should I stick with las or bite the bullet and pull those ML dudes back out?

 Blackie wrote:

spacewolfguy wrote:
Are we less competitive after CA2018 just on the basis we “share” point reductions with armies already seeing success and got few unquie reductions? Wolf Guard Storm Shield Spam seems cute, but not being troops means they can’t functionally take the spot of GH... so to squeeze them in your cutting Wulfen or Long Fangs?? Not me!

Most of my list save around 50-75 points but other fractions are seeing a lot more!
So those points can go to more plasmas, or another Long Fang model. Maybe we squeeze in a Swiftclaw unit for objective grabbing??? Just not seeing what to make of these modest point reductions?? Help??

50-75 is quite a lot though. My lists only saves about 20ish points. 1ppm for 5 WG, 6 points because plasma guns are cheaper, 5 from the bikers WG (cheaper shields) and 12 from the wulfen basically.

-20 points for termies and land raider crusader at 266 points are interesting though. -10 points for the ven dread, but it actually doesn't change much in terms of points available as now the ven dread should be better options than the wulfen one and the list is now 10 points more expensive. Bjorn is 3 points cheaper, yeah. Long fangs now really have other anti tank options that aren't lascannons, this is one of the most interesting thing about CA for SW IMHO.

But basically my lists didn't change a bit.

Most of my savings came from Missile Launchers. I’m glad to see that change to finally justify taking them over Lascannon. Lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If anyone has opinions on Swiftclaws (post CA) I’d love to hear it. They sure seem like they could be a pretty solid mobile mid-late game objective grabber.

Azuza001 wrote:
I find it funny that the wolfen are getting a great deal now with their thunder hammers and storm shields but its twc people are trying to get better. I am with the others who agree RAW twc stay at 10 pts.

But yeah, i am super happy about wolfen. I am looking at them again thinking "you may just see real use again my friends..."

Wulfen were already good. The problem is their total lack of a supporting cast, which might be smoothed over a bit with CA. Not enough but a bit.

Thunderwolf Cavalry are iconic and fantastic looking models. It makes no sense for a TWC rider to pay character prices for stormshields.

This is a clear oversight by GW, which wouldn't surprise me, given the quality of the SW codex, and how it was errata'd before it even released.

I am glad I play in a less competitive meta, I am having a ton of fun using both my TWC and Wulfen with some good success.

My list is essentially a battallion of barebone Grey Hunters... who I may be able to replace with Intercessors now with points deductions.

1-2 squads of TWC, 4 strong. 2 Frost Axe/SS+2 Wolf Claws, sergeant has a WC.

A team of 3 characters - 1 Wolf lord on TW, 2 WGBL on TW. All with Thunder Hammer + SS. This all moves as a big blob essentially, with the TWC providing a giant wall for my smash characters.

I mix it up from there really. I either add Wulfen and a Stormwolf and fly it around with a supporting character like a Wolf Priest or a Rune Priest. Mayhem and fun is had.

As for the discussion about the benefits we've gotten from CA 2018... I don't see a ton of them, honestly. I am hoping the TWC is an oversight, as the previous points worked. 5/10/15. Now it's suddenly 2/10/10? That doesn't make sense. Especially with other stuff getting such hefty points drops.

Unless... it fits the theme of everything primaris getting cuts but anything with a standard marine, that will be phased out, not getting decent cuts. Perhaps we will see replacement TWC with a primaris version?

bananathug wrote:
With the cost changes to missile launchers have they finally pulled ahead of lascannons for long fangs?

I just bought 4 las cannon dudes before CA but now it seems that MLs doing 75% of the job vs kights but now at 75% of the cost firmly tips the balance in their favor (as they are the same against most other targets and they are not completely useless vs hordes).

Am I crazy? Should I stick with las or bite the bullet and pull those ML dudes back out?

What about plasma cannons? They're even cheaper. 6 long fangs with 4 plasma cannons cost like 5 dudes with 3 lascannons.

Missile launchers are solid but I don't like versatile units, I'd take heavy bolters if I need more anti infantry units or lascannons/plasma cannons if I want more anti tank. But that's me, missile launchers were popular even before CA points reductions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Marmatag wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:
I find it funny that the wolfen are getting a great deal now with their thunder hammers and storm shields but its twc people are trying to get better. I am with the others who agree RAW twc stay at 10 pts.

But yeah, i am super happy about wolfen. I am looking at them again thinking "you may just see real use again my friends..."

Wulfen were already good. The problem is their total lack of a supporting cast, which might be smoothed over a bit with CA. Not enough but a bit.

Thunderwolf Cavalry are iconic and fantastic looking models. It makes no sense for a TWC rider to pay character prices for stormshields.

This is a clear oversight by GW, which wouldn't surprise me, given the quality of the SW codex, and how it was errata'd before it even released.

TWC are pricey but not trash, if buffed correctly they are a very effective anti infantry tool. I always bring 3 assault oriented units, and one of them is a wulfen squad, no matter what. The other 2 are chosen among WG with jump packs, bikes, on foot (embarked actually), termies, biggest blob of blood claws or TWC. Occasionally a dread but I mostly play it as a bodyguard for my deploying zone. Arjac to buff all the wolf guards and give the roll results of 1 to wound and a wolf priest (with the wulfen stone) to re-roll all failed hits in combat (helps a lot with wulfen and termies) and heal multiwounds models. On their own close combat units are lackluster, even wulfen can't really go alone.

A TWC dude with 7-9 attacks (Arjac, wulfen/wulfen stone) S5 AP-1 re-rolling 4-6 of them is no joke. With 2 points SS the unit becomes 20 points cheaper basically but with more invulns since you'll probably invest in more shields with that price. I honestly don't see any reason why they shouldn't have the cheap SS like anybody else.

bananathug wrote:
With the cost changes to missile launchers have they finally pulled ahead of lascannons for long fangs?

Tempting. They are close to Lascannon effectiveness against T7 units (especially with the amount of invulnerable saves around these days) and much better vs hordes. If you run into T8 units, pop Wolf's Eye and reroll wounds for a 75% damage rate. Plus you get access to the flakk stratagem. I definitely think there is space for a ML or 2 in my LF pack.

TWC definitely still get stormshields at 10 pts.

We have 3 stormshield entries in our codex.

Stormshield (Characters)
Stormshield (Thunderwolf cavalry)
Stormshield (Other models)

CA SPECIFICALLY states that only SS (Characters) and SS (Other models) have been changed.

Intended or not, we will have to wait for the errata. For now, it’s 10 pts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think the price of 10 or so pts for SS on TWC makes sense, as it is so much better on a T5 W3 model... so much so that it could be worth the equivallent of on a character.

The plasma cannons do look mighty sweet.

I'm working on a wolf and lion army and feel bad about putting the plasma cannons in the space wolf detachment but I think with native re-roll 1's, ignore modifiers strat and the +1 to wound for those pesky t8 units I feel they work better for long fangs. 2 units of 5 w/ 4 cannons and a termie WGPL with a storm shield just seem like they straight up shoot better and are more resilient.

I think the numbers work out for the plasma > ML vs all targets per point (16 vs 20 for more avg wounds vs anything but wave serpents but there's the 1/36 chance of blowing myself up, meh better myself than some stinking xeno). Flack and shells strats are nice but "only" running a double bat I'm already out of CP by turn 3 anyways...

These cheaper plasma cannons just strike me as sooo good. Are we sure they are supposed to be in our codex?

Northern85Star wrote:
TWC definitely still get stormshields at 10 pts.

We have 3 stormshield entries in our codex.

Stormshield (Characters)
Stormshield (Thunderwolf cavalry)
Stormshield (Other models)

CA SPECIFICALLY states that only SS (Characters) and SS (Other models) have been changed.

Intended or not, we will have to wait for the errata. For now, it’s 10 pts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think the price of 10 or so pts for SS on TWC makes sense, as it is so much better on a T5 W3 model... so much so that it could be worth the equivallent of on a character.

That may or may not be the case but the point still stands that 40 points for the base model is too much. If that got the same cost reduction as we would've gained from the SS reduction (so it's be 32) I feel TWC would be more or less fine given that we have multiple ways to boost their A stat.

32 with a SS is too cheap. 40 for the base is ok I think, maybe 40 including the shield. One thing that is clearly overcosted and should go down is the Wolf Claw, how can it be more expensive than a fist? It should be 5 points and 7/8 for the pair. So a unit of 5 TWC with shields and claws would be 225-235 points, basically like a pack of wulfen but with an anti infantry role.

Seriously, a weapon that is S5 AP-1 re-rolling wounds is extremely overcosted at 10/14 points. But it's probably the weapon that matches better with the TWC profile and the SW army in general since we already have wulfen and termies that are better equipped with anti tank weapons.

 Blackie wrote:
32 with a SS is too cheap. 40 for the base is ok I think, maybe 40 including the shield. One thing that is clearly overcosted and should go down is the Wolf Claw, how can it be more expensive than a fist? It should be 5 points and 7/8 for the pair. So a unit of 5 TWC with shields and claws would be 225-235 points, basically like a pack of wulfen but with an anti infantry role.

Seriously, a weapon that is S5 AP-1 re-rolling wounds is extremely overcosted at 10/14 points. But it's probably the weapon that matches better with the TWC profile and the SW army in general since we already have wulfen and termies that are better equipped with anti tank weapons.

It is in line with Frost Weapons. A Frost Sword is 7pts and has the same stats minus the reroll wounds. Power swords are 4pts now so 5pts for a Wolf Claw would not be in line with that at all. Not saying it's worth 10pts now that Fists are 8 or 9 points, but Frost and Power weapons need an overall discount anyway. Power Sword 3pts, Frost Sword 5pts and Wolf Claw 6-7 points and 10pts for a pair would probably be about right.

Just noticed;

errata for our Codex changed Skyclaws "models per unit" value to 5-15, but now CA2018 is saying 5-10 which was original.

Overlook by GW? Why revert?

Ilgoth wrote:
Just noticed;

errata for our Codex changed Skyclaws "models per unit" value to 5-15, but now CA2018 is saying 5-10 which was original.

Overlook by GW? Why revert?

I dunno, I ran a blob of 15 once and had a good time with it!

For the TWC SS thing, there is a guy on FB who apparently writes for GW saying the TWC stormshield is going down, that is probably why people are still debating it. I'll admit it is why I was so hopeful. I guess we'll find out a week after CA drops when they post the first round of errata for it. If they do go down, it will certainly continue to make Bloodcrushers look woefully terrible. In the past TWC/Bloodcrushers used to be a pretty decent comparison, now... I feel bad for khorne players.

I am playing this army right now, trying it at some small events and seems to work ok.

Vanguard
Wolf lord, jump pack stormshield, hammer, saga of the wulfkin, The wulfen stone
10 WG 10 SB, 10 shields
10 WG 10 SB, 10 shields
10 WG 10 SB, 10 shields
10 WG terminators, 10 SB, 10 shields
10 WG terminators, 10 SB, 10 shields
10 WG terminators, 10 SB, 10 shields

Battalion
Company commander
Company commander
10 infantry
10 infantry
10 infantry

Supreme
WGBL vigilus trait- saga of the savage, jump pack, hammer shield
Arjac
Runepriest

Interesting, i like the wg with sb/ss combo but i put jump packs on mine. Makes them more expensive sure but also makes them more maneuverable. If they get charged they can fall back and still shoot with the jump packs.

How do the terms work out for you? Thats the cheapest/ best way to run them atm for sure, but i would stick a few thunder hammers in there personally for some cc bite vs something big and nasty. Or power swords for anti infantry bite. Do all 10 need ss? Or maybe ss and power sword? They already have a lot of shooting going on.

(Not trying to say how your doing is bad, honestly been thinking that sw terms are the best imperial terms available but not really sure how to run them best)

For me 5 points is just too much per model, if they had been 17 I would do it.

With the new points a few fists wouldn’t be too bad. Chainfists went down as well.

Yeah not being able to fall back and shoot isn’t great, however the wolves are so good in combat Not much likes to charge them.

Sw terminators and deathwatch ones are fantastic

Azuza001 wrote:


How do the terms work out for you? Thats the cheapest/ best way to run them atm for sure, but i would stick a few thunder hammers in there personally for some cc bite vs something big and nasty. Or power swords for anti infantry bite. Do all 10 need ss? Or maybe ss and power sword? They already have a lot of shooting going on.

5 dudes, 3TH/SS and 2 Powerfists/stombolters for 191 points. They usually get the benefits from 2+ of these units: arjac, wulfen/character with wulfen stone, wolf priest, wolf lord or battle leader. When I field them they got +2A and some re-rolls everytime. Always deployed using their deep striking ability.

I'm just a bit disappointed that all the power fists and storm shields bitz are for the left hand so the power fist + storm shield combo in not possible without conversions. That's why I use stormbolters, but I'd replace them with storm shields if I could.

 Blackie wrote:

I'm just a bit disappointed that all the power fists and storm shields bitz are for the left hand so the power fist + storm shield combo in not possible without conversions. That's why I use stormbolters, but I'd replace them with storm shields if I could.

This is good to know because I plan to run such a squad. I’ll see how I get it done. Most likely have to put shields in right due to fingers.

Got two comp tourneys incoming and both use a mission with Null Field rule (invul saves dont work within objectives). Putting it out there with all SS spams people do now due to CA2018.

Where SW terminators are strong is that not every guy has to waste points on a fist. You can mix and match the squad up. I wouldn’t take more than 2-3 chainfists (for 2 points more they are much better than fists and not far behind hammers)

Hoping someone can help clear a quick question up for me.

Recently came across some reivers and thought I would slow grow a force of wolves but I'm confused on how to load.

In the codex is listed a power sword but I can't fugue out who's allowed to take it. It's not listed in the wargear options section.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 lare2 wrote:
Hoping someone can help clear a quick question up for me.

Recently came across some reivers and thought I would slow grow a force of wolves but I'm confused on how to load.

In the codex is listed a power sword but I can't fugue out who's allowed to take it. It's not listed in the wargear options section.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Not even the Reiver Sergeant is allowed a Power Sword. Only Intercessors get the Power Sword/Fist option.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 lare2 wrote:
Hoping someone can help clear a quick question up for me.

Recently came across some reivers and thought I would slow grow a force of wolves but I'm confused on how to load.

In the codex is listed a power sword but I can't fugue out who's allowed to take it. It's not listed in the wargear options section.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Not even the Reiver Sergeant is allowed a Power Sword. Only Intercessors get the Power Sword/Fist option.

Thanks for the quick response. That's what I was thinking, with battlescribe's help. The fact that it's listed on the reivers' weapon option in the codex is on the misleading side.

 Blackie wrote:
I'm just a bit disappointed that all the power fists and storm shields bitz are for the left hand so the power fist + storm shield combo in not possible without conversions. That's why I use stormbolters, but I'd replace them with storm shields if I could.

Yeah, that is a bit of a downer. With the recent price drop on Fists, I think they outperform Hammers on a point-for-damage basis. There must be some conversion potential out there.

Cut the lightening claw part off and you have a power fist.

mightymconeshot wrote:
Cut the lightening claw part off and you have a power fist.

Simple yet brilliant!

Wait. So stormshields are 2 points? Is not that insane?