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It feels like some guys at GW made a bet:
"ok you guys remake old world rank and file, and we make an army of dragons, and we will see where the nerds go -we will see."

Did we really need more Stormcast?

tneva82 wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:
The warriors in the starter and the warriors in the box are identical.
For £3.50 extra you get a character and some dice. Oh and some targets to chop up for base deco. It’s a steal!

I personally expect the dominion minis to drop with similar prices to the indomitus ones so the “deal” on the base starter will be similar.

Or gw learned from that. Vindictors come in 5 on starter. I expect solo box have 10 like liberator/sequitor. With price less than 2 starters.

Keep in mind that the equivalents here are Necron Warriors/bog boyz and Marines/Sigmarines. I don't think the Necron situation has any bearing on the Sigmarine side of things.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Did we really need more Stormcast?

Six years ago GW replaced its big honking Space Marine statue with a big honking Sigmarine statue. Isn't that enough of a statement of intent to you?

 Geifer wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Did we really need more Stormcast?

Six years ago GW replaced its big honking Space Marine statue with a big honking Sigmarine statue. Isn't that enough of a statement of intent to you?

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Did we really need more Stormcast?

Yes.

Frankly though, I would love to see some crazy lightning-powered warmachines for them. That and some kind of dragonman/stormcast hybrid like the Draconians from Dragonlance...or the dragonmen from Mierce.

If they plan on adding more dragons to the Sigmarines, don't half-ass it...

Full-ass it.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 Geifer wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Did we really need more Stormcast?

Six years ago GW replaced its big honking Space Marine statue with a big honking Sigmarine statue. Isn't that enough of a statement of intent to you?

And since then, even with this update, they relased more Space Marines than Sigmarines, not even counting the fact Sigmarines didn't get anything new for several years straight. Things were looking up.

Yeah. Let's come back to talk about this when you get what I'm saying.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Did we really need more Stormcast?

Yes, because the original Stormcast were terrible looking.

Or…

No, because Stormcast are literally the least interesting thing about the whole Age of Sigmar setting.

Take your pick. I’m going with both.

 Sacredroach wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Did we really need more Stormcast?

Yes.

Frankly though, I would love to see some crazy lightning-powered warmachines for them. That and some kind of dragonman/stormcast hybrid like the Draconians from Dragonlance...or the dragonmen from Mierce.

If they plan on adding more dragons to the Sigmarines, don't half-ass it...

Full-ass it.

YEP!

I want a huge dracoLion to go with my dracolines.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Did we really need more Stormcast?

They certainly didn't need large dragons to back them up.

SamusDrake wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Did we really need more Stormcast?

They certainly didn't need large dragons to back them up.

I mean, they already had them. Always had.

Well, not always as that was second wave

but yeah the idea of dragons being linked to SCEs isn't a new idea. this is just refinement of it


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Did we really need more Stormcast?

We certainly needed them more then we needed snarky comments about someone else's army getting something you don't want

BrianDavion wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Did we really need more Stormcast?

We certainly needed them more then we needed snarky comments about someone else's army getting something you don't want

Okay then, i'd like to hear your take on why one faction having more units than 4-5 others combined is in any way good for the balance or health, or enjoyement of the game, please. Enlighten me.

They are the poster boys, the flagship product of AoS. SCE drive popularity for the entire game. As for release numbers, it reeeeeaaallly depends on which factions.

Did we need more SCE? Of course not. We don't need anything; it's a hobby! The only sense in which any faction 'needs' model releases is if it cannot reasonably put an army on the table. Outside of that very short list it isn't about needing more releases it is about WANTING more releases.

Did the community want more dragons, stormcast, and Stormcast riding dragons? Yes, yes it did.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Did we really need more Stormcast?

GW took one of the least interesting things about 40k, the unending dominance of space marine releases, and made a whole new fantasy system around it.

But credit where it's deserved, despite the total lack of originality of taking giant armoured men with huge pauldrons and re-styling them to look "fantasy," people lap it up.

And just like the absurdity of the space marines riding giant wolves before them, we now have giant armoured men riding slightly-giant dragons, who, just like their wolf forefathers, also look like they're one more trip away from blowing out their backs.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

I mean, they already had them. Always had.

Exactly. Not only the Stardrakes but all the other small-to-large creatures already in the army.

That said, I'm not sore about it as I'm a Stormcast player at heart and happy I don't have to go outside the upcoming Stormcast battletome for their rules.

Hm, GW sees that a certain aesthetic is popular among customers and ports that aesthetic over to the fantasy side. Customers like it there too, and respond by purchasing product they like. GW sees this, and offers more product along the same lines of what customers have demonstrated they enjoy.

jojo_monkey_boy expressed above that this is unreasonable, that by purchasing a product they like customers "lap it up" implying a dog-like level of intelligence (because feth rule #1 amirite?). Then doubles down by implying that a lack of originality immediately equates to a lack of quality, and presents his subjective opinion on the models as fact.

Personally I feel it was an unoriginal and low-quality post.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Hm, GW sees that a certain aesthetic is popular among customers and ports that aesthetic over to the fantasy side. Customers like it there too, and respond by purchasing product they like. GW sees this, and offers more product along the same lines of what customers have demonstrated they enjoy.

jojo_monkey_boy expressed above that this is unreasonable, that by purchasing a product they like customers "lap it up" implying a dog-like level of intelligence (because feth rule #1 amirite?). Then doubles down by implying that a lack of originality immediately equates to a lack of quality, and presents his subjective opinion on the models as fact.

Personally I feel it was an unoriginal and low-quality post.

claiming space marines are "the least intreasting" part of 40k isn't born out by their popularity.

people need to stop thinking their opinion is objective truth.

Besides big armored warriors tends to be a popular aspect of fantasy.

Actually GW made space marines in 40k by porting the Chaos Warrior concept from Fantasy because they saw that it was extremely popular.

So Stormcast being "space marines" in fantasy is going back full circle when space marines were "chaos warriors" in space.

 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Did we really need more Stormcast?

GW took one of the least interesting things about 40k, the unending dominance of space marine releases, and made a whole new fantasy system around it.

But credit where it's deserved, despite the total lack of originality of taking giant armoured men with huge pauldrons and re-styling them to look "fantasy," people lap it up.

And just like the absurdity of the space marines riding giant wolves before them, we now have giant armoured men riding slightly-giant dragons, who, just like their wolf forefathers, also look like they're one more trip away from blowing out their backs.

Couldn't agree more. AOS would be so much more interesting if instead of getting stormcast every edition, we'd get a new race/army.

maybe there's a reason for that, maybe they are great sellers (i doubt it, but what do i know)

 streetsamurai wrote:

 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Did we really need more Stormcast?

GW took one of the least interesting things about 40k, the unending dominance of space marine releases, and made a whole new fantasy system around it.

But credit where it's deserved, despite the total lack of originality of taking giant armoured men with huge pauldrons and re-styling them to look "fantasy," people lap it up.

And just like the absurdity of the space marines riding giant wolves before them, we now have giant armoured men riding slightly-giant dragons, who, just like their wolf forefathers, also look like they're one more trip away from blowing out their backs.

Couldn't agree more. AOS would be so much more interesting if instead of getting stormcast ever edition, we'd get a new race/army

But... we get... both?

Stormcast vs Khorne Bloodbound
Stormcast vs Nighthaunt
Stormcast vs Kruleboyz

It's always Stormcast vs a new race/army... We get both...

I meant a new race instead of sce. Dominion would have been much more interesting for me if instead of sce, we got city of sigmar (which are long overdue)

But that's not a new race/army...

If the starter box didn't come with a known army, there wouldn't be guaranteed interest. If they dropped a Kruleboyz vs Gholemic Artificekings box and both new races whiffed, they'd lose a lot of money.

Release Stormcast and X, and if the new race whiffs, they've still sold to so many Stormcast players. I think the only other army they could do that has anywhere near the popularity of Stormcast is Lumineth? But then Lumineth players would complain about release fatigue (3 armybooks/model expansions in barely over a year! The horror!)

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
jojo_monkey_boy expressed above that this is unreasonable, that by purchasing a product they like customers "lap it up" implying a dog-like level of intelligence (because feth rule #1 amirite?). Then doubles down by implying that a lack of originality immediately equates to a lack of quality, and presents his subjective opinion on the models as fact.

There's a lot of creative writing going on in your post that may not be all that accurate, but yes, you're correct that my post did convey my subjective opinion on sigmarines. I think they're boring and very likely the result of a corporation asking, "How can we take this idea that makes us tons of money and change it slightly to make us even more money." Which, as I insinuated before, is great for them. But it doesn't make an original idea.

But yeah, we're all on here spouting our subjective opinions, not drafting deep research studies that need exhaustive methodologies and peer review. If mine bothers you, I'm aware that dakka now has an ignore function, you might want to block me.

Rihgu wrote:
But that's not a new race/army...

If the starter box didn't come with a known army, there wouldn't be guaranteed interest. If they dropped a Kruleboyz vs Gholemic Artificekings box and both new races whiffed, they'd lose a lot of money.

Release Stormcast and X, and if the new race whiffs, they've still sold to so many Stormcast players. I think the only other army they could do that has anywhere near the popularity of Stormcast is Lumineth? But then Lumineth players would complain about release fatigue (3 armybooks/model expansions in barely over a year! The horror!)

This is a chicken or egg cartons conundrum. Are sce popular cause they get a lot of release, or do they get a lot of release cause they are popular? And even their relative popularity is probably _discutable" since it seems that Dominion is not a big success (anecdotal evidence, but thats all we got unfortunately).

As i said before, maybe GW has good reason to put all this emphasis on sce, or maybe they are stuck in their own version of sunk cost fallacy, but at the end of the day, and this is strictly personnal, this is making such the gsme and the setting much less interesting

 streetsamurai wrote:

Rihgu wrote:
But that's not a new race/army...

If the starter box didn't come with a known army, there wouldn't be guaranteed interest. If they dropped a Kruleboyz vs Gholemic Artificekings box and both new races whiffed, they'd lose a lot of money.

Release Stormcast and X, and if the new race whiffs, they've still sold to so many Stormcast players. I think the only other army they could do that has anywhere near the popularity of Stormcast is Lumineth? But then Lumineth players would complain about release fatigue (3 armybooks/model expansions in barely over a year! The horror!)

This is a chicken or egg cartons conundrum. Are sce popular cause they get a lot of release, or do they get a lot of release cause they are popular? And even their relative popularity is probably _discutable" since it seems that Dominion is not a big success (anecdotal evidence, but thats all we got unfortunately).

As i said before, maybe GW has good reason to put all this emphasis on sce, or maybe they are stuck in their own version of sunk cost fallacy, but at the end of the day, and this is strictly personnal, this is making such the gsme and the setting much less interesting

No, I think it's different from the usual "X gets releases therefore X is popular" argument. I don't doubt that Stormcasts are the safest bet because they've been in every other starter box. I just doubt that any other faction has the share to reduce the risk of the new faction. Stormcasts usually just get releases around starters, albeit large ones, anyways. They're definitely less popular relative to Space Marines, adjusting for AoS being less popular than 40k and all that.

I doubt a Kharadron Overlords vs Kruleboyz, a Daughters of Khaine vs Kruleboyz, a Slaves to Darkness vs Kruleboyz, or a Flesheater Courts vs Kruleboyz box would sell as well as Dominion did, even if Dominion didn't sell super well, anecdotally. I think the general idea is that one faction needs Wide Appeal, and the other faction can be Niche, and honestly every faction in the game is Niche besides Stormcast Eternals and Slaves to Darkness - the Blank Slate armies (just like Space Marines)

If GW built up another faction to be a safe bet, sure. But they'd have to do the work outside of a starter set. Hey, maybe they could give Kharadron their supposedly deserved Wave 2? Maybe one day they'd be as viable as Stormcast for a starter Although even then I think Kharadron would be too niche (steampunk dwarfs with balloon boats...?)

I mean in fairness if slaves to darkness was the second army vs krule boyz I'd be just as excited by a STD release. but end of the day I just love the "heavy armor" styling

 Geifer wrote:

Keep in mind that the equivalents here are Necron Warriors/bog boyz and Marines/Sigmarines. I don't think the Necron situation has any bearing on the Sigmarine side of things.

Bog boyz/marines/whatever are fairly irrelevant when point is that for like 2-3£ you get same plus character+models for other faction that you can sell away + other stuff.

It's very hard to NOT get necron warriors cheaper by buying starter set than recruit edition.

Now if vindictors come in box of 5 for 45€ we are in same situation. For 5€ you get same + knight arcantum + 12 kruleboyz and I'll be damned if somebody doesn't buy the 10 gutrippas for 6€ minimum...Which would make starter set cheaper way to get vindictors and you get gaming mat(even if not super quality).

So I'm suspecting GW has learned the pricing by now and will make vindictors 10 for 50€ so 2 starters for 10 vindictors costs 80€ so you need to get the 20 gutrippas+characters sold for at least 30€. Doable but not quite as obvious anymore which way to go if you want vindictors.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:

GW took one of the least interesting things about 40k, the unending dominance of space marine releases, and made a whole new fantasy system around it..

Just because you don't think they are interesting doesn't make it truth.

Evidence points toward opposite actually. Facts are saying you are wrong


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 streetsamurai wrote:

Couldn't agree more. AOS would be so much more interesting if instead of getting stormcast every edition, we'd get a new race/army.

maybe there's a reason for that, maybe they are great sellers (i doubt it, but what do i know)

Eeeh...It's 3 years since last stormcast releases. Since then there's been more than 1 new race/faction introduced to the game.

But yeah. Let's pretend stormcast release every 3 years means nothing else gets released. Screw the facts. Fake news all the way.

tneva82 wrote:

 Geifer wrote:

Keep in mind that the equivalents here are Necron Warriors/bog boyz and Marines/Sigmarines. I don't think the Necron situation has any bearing on the Sigmarine side of things.

Bog boyz/marines/whatever are fairly irrelevant when point is that for like 2-3£ you get same plus character+models for other faction that you can sell away + other stuff.

It's very hard to NOT get necron warriors cheaper by buying starter set than recruit edition.

Now if vindictors come in box of 5 for 45€ we are in same situation. For 5€ you get same + knight arcantum + 12 kruleboyz and I'll be damned if somebody doesn't buy the 10 gutrippas for 6€ minimum...Which would make starter set cheaper way to get vindictors and you get gaming mat(even if not super quality).

So I'm suspecting GW has learned the pricing by now and will make vindictors 10 for 50€ so 2 starters for 10 vindictors costs 80€ so you need to get the 20 gutrippas+characters sold for at least 30€. Doable but not quite as obvious anymore which way to go if you want vindictors.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:

GW took one of the least interesting things about 40k, the unending dominance of space marine releases, and made a whole new fantasy system around it..

Just because you don't think they are interesting doesn't make it truth.

Evidence points toward opposite actually. Facts are saying you are wrong


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 streetsamurai wrote:

Couldn't agree more. AOS would be so much more interesting if instead of getting stormcast every edition, we'd get a new race/army.

maybe there's a reason for that, maybe they are great sellers (i doubt it, but what do i know)

Eeeh...It's 3 years since last stormcast releases. Since then there's been more than 1 new race/faction introduced to the game.

But yeah. Let's pretend stormcast release every 3 years means nothing else gets released. Screw the facts. Fake news all the way.

heck since 2.0 launched haven't we gotten LRL? that by itself is pretty big

Sign me up for the people who were (and still laregly are) bored with storm casts. i was ready to hop on the train until I saw that they were still too big and out of scale. I don't want to play with 40 -45mm figures. I long for the days of even just 32mm, as I know there will never be a day for 25mm again in the world of warhammer.