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Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Marshal Loss wrote:
 dreadblade wrote:
What do people do about psychic powers? Do you select the same powers for multiple units to give flexibility for where to use them? Or do you run different powers on different units so you can use them all every round?


Generally the latter is best, imo.


Its easier to have most of your rubrics having the same psychic though. Makes it much easier to do book keeping wise. And it easier for your opponent as well. Like oh, all the rubric marine squads have temporal surge. or all the rubric marines have doombolt. Much easier to remember for both compared to having to Mark out squad 1 to squad 4 of the rubric marines all differently, and having to remember which squad has which psychic.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Yoyoyo wrote:
@ Daedalus : If you’re not running Spawn, in your tournament list wouldn’t it make some sense to throw -1 to hit and a 4++ on the Mutalith? It’s a pretty chunky target and nothing else can get that 2D3 recovery.


I'm dicey on the 2D3 recovery being allowed. Biggest problem is not going first and it popping on a 4+. If I had Duplicity I could deploy it way back and toss it forward. I don't think it works in a mono-time setup.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Marshal Loss wrote:
 dreadblade wrote:
What do people do about psychic powers? Do you select the same powers for multiple units to give flexibility for where to use them? Or do you run different powers on different units so you can use them all every round?


Generally the latter is best, imo.


Some lists build in redundancy if there's enough unit in the setup like the guy who took 40 rubrics and 2 rhinos. Then you just smite with the rest and do the crucial spells with the big guys. Most of my units have a specific role to play and I flex out spells as needed.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/17 01:37:26


   
Made in pt
Journeyman Inquisitor with Visions of the Warp




 Daedalus81 wrote:
I'm dicey on the 2D3 recovery being allowed. Biggest problem is not going first and it popping on a 4+.

Looking at the following abilities, the syntax reads as “this model is healed and regains”, which seems to be an intentional common denominator in making these abilities exclusive of each other. They also share the once per turn qualifier.

- Warped Regeneration
- Aetheric Saturation
- Temporal Manipulation

The MVB innate regen doesn’t share that common syntax (“is healed and regains”), and doesn't mention the once per turn qualifier, which I don’t think can be construed as an oversight. Which is good for the Mutalith but of course, hiding it T1 is an issue. Similar problem to Magnus I guess.
   
Made in au
Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend




Australia

Spoiler:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
 Marshal Loss wrote:
 dreadblade wrote:
What do people do about psychic powers? Do you select the same powers for multiple units to give flexibility for where to use them? Or do you run different powers on different units so you can use them all every round?


Generally the latter is best, imo.


Its easier to have most of your rubrics having the same psychic though. Makes it much easier to do book keeping wise. And it easier for your opponent as well. Like oh, all the rubric marine squads have temporal surge. or all the rubric marines have doombolt. Much easier to remember for both compared to having to Mark out squad 1 to squad 4 of the rubric marines all differently, and having to remember which squad has which psychic.


 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Marshal Loss wrote:
 dreadblade wrote:
What do people do about psychic powers? Do you select the same powers for multiple units to give flexibility for where to use them? Or do you run different powers on different units so you can use them all every round?


Generally the latter is best, imo.


Some lists build in redundancy if there's enough unit in the setup like the guy who took 40 rubrics and 2 rhinos. Then you just smite with the rest and do the crucial spells with the big guys. Most of my units have a specific role to play and I flex out spells as needed.



Fair points from both.

The Circle of Iniquity
The Fourth Seal
(HN) wrote:
It's an objectively mediocre book from the rule, lore, edition, content, hobby point of view.
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





This guy just went 5-0. Beat Custodes, DG, DA twice, and DE

Spoiler:
++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Chaos - Thousand Sons) [63 PL, 10CP, 13 Cabal Points, 1,199pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Cults of the Legion: Cult of Mutation

Detachment Command Cost

+ Stratagems +

Sorcerous Arcana [-2CP]: 2x Additional Relics

+ HQ +

Ahriman [10 PL, 3 Cabal Points, 180pts]: 11. Gaze of Hate, 13. Doombolt, 23. Baleful Devolution, Disc of Tzeentch

Exalted Sorcerer [8 PL, 3 Cabal Points, 145pts]: 22. Swelled by the Warp, 23. Temporal Surge, 6. Aetherstride, Disc of Tzeentch, Inferno Bolt Pistol, Paradigm of Change, Prosperine khopesh, Thrydderghyre, Warlord

Infernal Master [5 PL, 2 Cabal Points, 90pts]: 21. Presage, 3. Capering Imps, 6. Malefic Maelstrom, Umbralefic Crystal

+ Troops +

Rubric Marines [6 PL, 1 Cabal Points, 105pts]
. Aspiring Sorcerer: 21. Temporal Manipulation, Inferno Bolt Pistol
. 4x Rubric Marine w/ inferno boltgun: 4x Inferno boltgun

Rubric Marines [6 PL, 1 Cabal Points, 105pts]
. Aspiring Sorcerer: 23. Temporal Surge, Inferno Bolt Pistol
. 4x Rubric Marine w/ inferno boltgun: 4x Inferno boltgun

Rubric Marines [6 PL, 1 Cabal Points, 129pts]
. Aspiring Sorcerer: 32. Pyric Flux, Inferno Bolt Pistol
. 4x Rubric Marine w/ warpflamer: 4x Warpflamer

Rubric Marines [6 PL, 1 Cabal Points, 129pts]
. Aspiring Sorcerer: 32. Pyric Flux, Inferno Bolt Pistol
. 4x Rubric Marine w/ warpflamer: 4x Warpflamer

Rubric Marines [6 PL, 1 Cabal Points, 105pts]
. Aspiring Sorcerer: 23. Temporal Surge, Inferno Bolt Pistol
. 4x Rubric Marine w/ inferno boltgun: 4x Inferno boltgun

+ Fast Attack +

Chaos Spawn [1 PL, 23pts]: Chaos Spawn

Chaos Spawn [1 PL, 23pts]: Chaos Spawn

+ Dedicated Transport +

Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 85pts]: Inferno combi-bolter

Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 80pts]

++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Chaos - Thousand Sons) [41 PL, -3CP, 7 Cabal Points, 800pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Cults of the Legion: Cult of Time

Detachment Command Cost [-2CP]

+ HQ +

Exalted Sorcerer [9 PL, -1CP, 3 Cabal Points, 160pts]: 11. Tzeentch's Firestorm, 23. Temporal Surge, Athenaean Scrolls, Dilettante, Disc of Tzeentch, High Acolytes, Immaterial Echo, Inferno Bolt Pistol, The Chronos Tutorum

Sorcerer [5 PL, 2 Cabal Points, 90pts]: 12. Glamour of Tzeentch, 22. Weaver of Fates, Force sword, Inferno Bolt Pistol

+ Troops +

Rubric Marines [6 PL, 1 Cabal Points, 105pts]
. Aspiring Sorcerer: 21. Temporal Manipulation, Inferno Bolt Pistol
. 4x Rubric Marine w/ inferno boltgun: 4x Inferno boltgun

+ Elites +

Scarab Occult Terminators [21 PL, 1 Cabal Points, 445pts]: 2x Hellfyre missile rack
. Scarab Occult Sorcerer: 31. Empyric Guidance, Inferno combi-bolter, Rites of Coalescence
. 7x Terminator: 7x Inferno combi-bolter, 7x Prosperine khopesh
. Terminator w/ Heavy Weapon: Soulreaper cannon
. Terminator w/ Heavy Weapon: Soulreaper cannon

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

Thanks for posting - I've been looking through that list to get pointers for mine...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/dreadblade/
Chaos Knights - Ultramarines - Thousand Sons - Grey Knights 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 dreadblade wrote:
Thanks for posting - I've been looking through that list to get pointers for mine...


Yea mutation is interesting and something that's always tempted me. He has a very weird fighty Exalted that seems more keen on mobility than anything else.

I've also been looking at Prophecy for my Terminator Sorcerer since he'd picking up reroll to hit, wound, and damage for the melta and then I'd have the miracle die spell for giggles. But to offset the CP cost I'd want an Infernal Master to kick out +1S or a reroll plus the psychic action for more CP.

Ugg...so many choices...


   
Made in us
Morphing Obliterator





 Daedalus81 wrote:
He has a very weird fighty Exalted that seems more keen on mobility than anything else.


I suspect he's going for something similar to what I've been playing around with on a Cult of time Exalted that I like better than the DP:
Exalted Sorcerer, Cult of Time, Dilettante, Hourglass of Manat, Seer's Bane, Disc of Tzeentch, Aetherstride
Twist of Fate, Temporal whatsitsnuts (Warptime).

The general idea is high mobility, potential for character killing or at least debuffing, with the Hourglass possibly giving you a nasty surprise, get-up, do it all over again. But it's 10 points cheaper than the DP, hits almost as hard, with a bit more utility I think.

No idea if it will be any good, but something to play around with.

"In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement in this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative."  
   
Made in pt
Journeyman Inquisitor with Visions of the Warp




 Daedalus81 wrote:
This guy just went 5-0. Beat Custodes, DG, DA twice, and DE


Pretty cool to see. Nothing looks ridiculously overpowered. Just lots and lots of solid Obsec, which I guess helped win on the primary.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Yoyoyo wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
This guy just went 5-0. Beat Custodes, DG, DA twice, and DE


Pretty cool to see. Nothing looks ridiculously overpowered. Just lots and lots of solid Obsec, which I guess helped win on the primary.


I wonder why he went with Cult of Mutation on the primary detachment. I could be wrong, but I don't see the Mutation trait or relic on the Warlord.
   
Made in pt
Journeyman Inquisitor with Visions of the Warp




I think it's a safe bet it was for Warp Reality, the Cult of Mutation power.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Yoyoyo wrote:
I think it's a safe bet it was for Warp Reality, the Cult of Mutation power.


Yea people sleep on that power. You don't need to see the enemy and there's no keyword restriction so you can put the brakes of Raiders if you want.

   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





Anyone tried running a trio of Hellbrutes (multi melta, fist) with a exalted or DP with the relic Egleighen's Orrery before?

Seems like a nice group with both melee and shooty capabilities and reasonably tanky too. They can move towards a mid point objective while shooting steadily and once there, they can fight on it, and will not be easy to shift from that objective.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Eldenfirefly wrote:
Anyone tried running a trio of Hellbrutes (multi melta, fist) with a exalted or DP with the relic Egleighen's Orrery before?

Seems like a nice group with both melee and shooty capabilities and reasonably tanky too. They can move towards a mid point objective while shooting steadily and once there, they can fight on it, and will not be easy to shift from that objective.


I'd probably do plasma. Orrey doesn't do much for MM and you can get more shots out of plasma occasionally ( or with blast ), but can't shoot into combat, soo... It's also a tad bit cheaper, but if you have just the ez build brutes then MM, of course.

I think it'd be reasonably effective. Terrain might make it hard to get them there at the same time. You can't redeploy them so no tricking out their deployment.

Admech can probably tear down 1 and 1/2 per turn so you'd have to be careful on what they can see or if they have fliers.

You know...you could actually go Prophecy. That gives you a miracle dice to swap in and then you can give one of the dreads reroll a hit, wound, and damage. You'll lose out on Orrey though. Alternatively go Scheming so you can fallback, shoot, and charge and then give them obsec.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/20 01:00:26


   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





I don't actually want to throw them into combat turn 1. (Not like they will get there). But while they are steadily moving forward, they also provide a decent counter charge deterrant. They also provide a much needed Melee threat for a Tsons army.

If I meet something like Admech which can murder them more easily, I would probably hide them behind obscuring and just hope to get good angles to shoot at to the midboard.

One single Hellbrute can probably be ignored, but three seems like a good number in that even if one goes down, the other two will still be a substantial threat.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Eldenfirefly wrote:
I don't actually want to throw them into combat turn 1. (Not like they will get there). But while they are steadily moving forward, they also provide a decent counter charge deterrant. They also provide a much needed Melee threat for a Tsons army.

If I meet something like Admech which can murder them more easily, I would probably hide them behind obscuring and just hope to get good angles to shoot at to the midboard.

One single Hellbrute can probably be ignored, but three seems like a good number in that even if one goes down, the other two will still be a substantial threat.


What I might even suggest is getting enough deployment drops to make it hard for them to put all of their anti-tank on the same side as the helbrutes. Like 3x1 spawn and maybe 3 spear enlightened just to pad out ( and then you have good deepstrike protection and an objective grabber ). DP can drop where they will officially go, but they won't know that he's part of the that group.

   
Made in us
Reading a Book in the Tower of Prospero





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

So, what are ya'lls general strategies in playing this army?

I know that's a loaded question, but in 9th ed I've mainly been a Drukhari player and the playstyle is radically different than a TS army.

I learned the hard way in my last game with TS, is that they're not expected to be fast and aggressive like Drukhari and I got exposed bad.

This isn't the list I played, but after that game this is the list I'm leaning towards:
Spoiler:
+++ TS (Warhammer 40,000 9th Edition) [18 Cabal Points, 100 PL, 1,998pts, 9CP] +++

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Chaos - Thousand Sons) ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Cults of the Legion: Cult of Time

Detachment Command Cost

+ HQ +

Ahriman: 11. Tzeentch's Firestorm, 13. Doombolt, 23. Baleful Devolution, Disc of Tzeentch

Exalted Sorcerer: 21. Presage, 22. Weaver of Fates, Athenaean Scrolls, Dilettante, Immaterial Echo, Inferno Bolt Pistol, Warlord

Thousand Sons Daemon Prince: 12. Twist of Fate, 22. Swelled by the Warp, 6. Aetherstride, Conniving Plate, Hellforged sword, High Acolytes

+ Troops +

Rubric Marines: Icon of Flame
. Aspiring Sorcerer: 32. Pyric Flux, Warpflame pistol
. 4x Rubric Marine w/ warpflamer: 4x Warpflamer

Rubric Marines: Icon of Flame
. Aspiring Sorcerer: 33. Perplex, Warpflame pistol
. 4x Rubric Marine w/ warpflamer: 4x Warpflamer

Rubric Marines: Icon of Flame
. Aspiring Sorcerer: 33. Desecration of Worlds, Inferno Bolt Pistol
. 3x Rubric Marine w/ inferno boltgun: 3x Inferno boltgun
. Rubric Marine w/ soulreaper cannon: Soulreaper cannon

Rubric Marines: Icon of Flame
. Aspiring Sorcerer: 31. Cacodaemonic Curse, Inferno Bolt Pistol
. 3x Rubric Marine w/ inferno boltgun: 3x Inferno boltgun
. Rubric Marine w/ soulreaper cannon: Soulreaper cannon

+ Elites +

Chaos Contemptor Dreadnought: 2x Twin volkite culverin

Chaos Contemptor Dreadnought: 2x Twin volkite culverin

Scarab Occult Terminators: 2x Hellfyre missile rack
. Scarab Occult Sorcerer: Inferno combi-bolter
. 7x Terminator: 7x Inferno combi-bolter, 7x Prosperine khopesh
. Terminator w/ Heavy Weapon: Soulreaper cannon
. Terminator w/ Heavy Weapon: Soulreaper cannon

+ Fast Attack +

Chaos Spawn
. 5x Chaos Spawn: 5x Hideous mutations

+ Heavy Support +

Chaos Rapier Carrier: Quad heavy bolter

Chaos Rapier Carrier: Quad heavy bolter

6000
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!

4000

∞ Chaos Daemons and CSM


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





People that tell you that you need to run up to objectives turn 1 are wrong and it will definitely lose you the game against DE. You need to consider carefully their advance and charge ranges and always watch the wych and incubi boats. Incubi are the bigger priority, because they bring D2/D3. D1 wyches don't to much unless they drop a bunch of 6s - it's the succubus that's painful. Incubi will have lots more buffs those and they can even spike terminators.

A note on their ability to overwatch. They use it 'when their unit is selected to charge', so they can't wait for you to declare O/W and counter it. Some may try to draw OW out with a boat charge on a flamer unit. If the boat is wounded and you have CP for +1 to wound then go for it since they're going to turn off OW for wyches anyway.

Your list has an overall weakness vs -1 damage abilities. The contemptors and the rapiers overstack your list to D2. Orrey can help the contemptors so consider axing the rapiers. Something to consider for the future, anyway.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/22 15:57:49


   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Auspex just weighed in on this codex this morning with a tier list, might add to the conversation. While his placement of Magnus is fair, he should have mentioned all the ways Magnus can heal (AETHERIC SATURATION, WARPED REGENERATION, TEMPORAL MANIPULATION) for potentially 3D3 wounds healed per turn.

Do you guys think the MUTALITH VORTEX BEAST would function well as a "distraction carnifex"/healing source (atheric saturation) for magnus, especially when used with sorcerous facade? Auspex is saying the biggest issue is closing in with the beast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJZFlJt7zvc&ab_channel=AuspexTactics
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




fistsofgork wrote:
he should have mentioned all the ways Magnus can heal (AETHERIC SATURATION, WARPED REGENERATION, TEMPORAL MANIPULATION) for potentially 3D3 wounds healed per turn


No Magnus may not do that, Magnus certainly may not have nice things. All the healing sources say a model may only be healed once per turn, so Magnus can be healed D3 per turn maximum.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Twilight Pathways wrote:
fistsofgork wrote:
he should have mentioned all the ways Magnus can heal (AETHERIC SATURATION, WARPED REGENERATION, TEMPORAL MANIPULATION) for potentially 3D3 wounds healed per turn


No Magnus may not do that, Magnus certainly may not have nice things. All the healing sources say a model may only be healed once per turn, so Magnus can be healed D3 per turn maximum.


Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
   
Made in pt
Journeyman Inquisitor with Visions of the Warp




Just going to summarize that Auspex Tactics tier list video, for expediency.

Tier 1: All HQs, Rubrics, Scarabs, Rhinos. This seems fair enough. Contemptors are here too.

Tier 2: All Tzaangor keyword units. Cultists, Spawn, Helbrutes, Magnus.

Tier 3: MVB, all old-school tanks, all Daemon Engines.
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





I would put Spawn in Tier 1. I mean, they are so good for their points already. I fail to see how much better they have to be to make tier 1. They are cheap and good and tanky and faster than infantry to boot. Put weaver of fates on them and they are a nightmare to remove. And even if your opponent does kill them, its 115 points for a unit of 5. No big deal even if you lost all of them.

Need them to go fast, cast temporal surge on them so that they move 14 inches and still get to charge. And they are great at killing 2W marines in close combat. A 5 man spawn unit going into a unit of 5 marines will almost definitely kill it off that objective, especially if you use that mutation stratgem.
   
Made in us
Frightening Flamer of Tzeentch





Are enlightened really in tier 2? They should be in tier 4. Otherwise this list seems to match my experience.
   
Made in pt
Journeyman Inquisitor with Visions of the Warp




I feel like the Contemptor might be more like a Tier 1.5. Not because the Datasheet is bad but field 2 and essentially you just lost a cult.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Yoyoyo wrote:
Just going to summarize that Auspex Tactics tier list video, for expediency.

Tier 1: All HQs, Rubrics, Scarabs, Rhinos. This seems fair enough. Contemptors are here too.

Tier 2: All Tzaangor keyword units. Cultists, Spawn, Helbrutes, Magnus.

Tier 3: MVB, all old-school tanks, all Daemon Engines.


Forgefiend ( 2x Cannon, Plasma ) in 3 seems excessively pessimistic to me.

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

I thought Helldrakes were supposed to be good now too?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/dreadblade/
Chaos Knights - Ultramarines - Thousand Sons - Grey Knights 
   
Made in ca
Nihilistic Necron Lord




The best State-Texas

Yoyoyo wrote:I feel like the Contemptor might be more like a Tier 1.5. Not because the Datasheet is bad but field 2 and essentially you just lost a cult.


Yeah, I run 2x Volcons, and due to that I can only run a single cult. I already start with 9 CP and I can't really sacrifice anymore with out CP hungry we are. That being said 2 Colcons with the Orrey is very powerful

Daedalus81 wrote:
Yoyoyo wrote:
Just going to summarize that Auspex Tactics tier list video, for expediency.

Tier 1: All HQs, Rubrics, Scarabs, Rhinos. This seems fair enough. Contemptors are here too.

Tier 2: All Tzaangor keyword units. Cultists, Spawn, Helbrutes, Magnus.

Tier 3: MVB, all old-school tanks, all Daemon Engines.


Forgefiend ( 2x Cannon, Plasma ) in 3 seems excessively pessimistic to me.


Yeah, the Triple Ecto has popped up more than once in some Podium lists. It is a not a bottom tier unit for sure.

4000+
6000+ Order. Unity. Obedience.
Thousand Sons 4000+
:Necron: Necron Discord: https://discord.com/invite/AGtpeD4  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 dreadblade wrote:
I thought Helldrakes were supposed to be good now too?


It's more vulnerable than it used to be, but I quite like it. If you go first it's very useful.

   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Daedalus81 wrote:
 dreadblade wrote:
I thought Helldrakes were supposed to be good now too?


It's more vulnerable than it used to be, but I quite like it. If you go first it's very useful.


I played with one helldrake a few games and I'am removing it from my list. It either died to fast or didn't really earn back his points. Removing 5 ad mech infiltrators in cover still takes 3 turns and meanwhile the battle rages on and it is not contributing anything.

Something else, played against grey knights with my thousand sons:

- I got one contemptor with volkite blasters and missile launcher and I like the possibility to get an extra shooting attempt with the 'forewarning' stratagem. With a contemptor at one side and my terminators at the other flank I really got my deployment zone covered. Grey knights want to deepstrike/teleport close and that really gives a nice ' stay of my lawn' effect. I probably going to add two single spawn models so that I can close down my deployment zone against deep striking units.

- I really like the 10 terminator setup with cult of time. 3 wound models that could get a -1 damage in combination with reviving models, is really a pain for grey knights. You end up fighting a dreadknight on a objective and keep scoring and meanwhile the dreadknight loses more and more wounds.

- I also might keep the daemon prince instead of an exalted sorcerer... Against the dreadknights it is nice to have an extra close combat counter attack unit.

- Against grey knights, psychic powers are off course all over the place and that resulted in a lot of failed attempts for both of us. Both armies really need to know what the other can do so you can arrange the deny the witch attempts accordingly.

- I totally forgot that the reroll 1 aura only effects 'core' units now, so no reroll 1 for the daemon prince... lesson learned...
   
 
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