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Made in us
Keeper of the Flame





Monticello, IN

Damn near two pages of "Let me correct your opinion."

www.classichammer.com

For 4-6th WFB, 2-5th 40k, and similar timeframe gaming

Looking for dice from the new AOS boxed set and Dark Imperium on the cheap. Let me know if you can help.
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its AoS, it doesn't have to make sense.
 
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

 AduroT wrote:
The biggest problem with Prodigy is how slow burn they are with airing more episodes.


Yeah, but it's good so XD

I look forward to the second half of the season. And we should be getting season 3 of Lower Decks right? If it improves on 2 like 2 improved on 1 we're in for a treat.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/21 03:01:49


   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Battle Barge Buffet Line

 Just Tony wrote:
Damn near two pages of "Let me correct your opinion."


That's just a vocal minority subset of culture in general and dakka specifically whether it's regarding a TV show that they like (whether genuinely or ideologically) or a wargaming product that they may or may not buy but must not allow opposition to.

Regardless, at least with SNW I don't feel like CBS/Paramount is trying to piss off long time fans except for a few seconds here and there. It's damning praise but praise nonetheless.

We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
 
   
Made in es
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer






I have to say, after watching the first two episodes of SNW, I liked them quite a bit. Kinda weird to see everyone on board with a tragic past and/or future, but whatevs.

As to disco, I got fed up with it thoroughly after starting season 3 and gave up halfway. And as now it's not on Netflix anymore, I never bothered again.
   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord








 
   
Made in ca
Preacher of the Emperor






I'm still gushing over this episode.

I can't be quippy about it without geeking out over it more and more.

This could have been a season finale. Easily a contender for all-time top Trek episode lists. I truly doubt SNW will do better than this, at least this season.

Spoilers ahead, in the spoiler tags, where they belong:

Spoiler:
- Seems they front-loaded Uhura and La'an's respective tragic backstories the way they did in order to establish them for this episode, where they both contribute heavily. Both achieve certain milestones and emerge changed, but still have room to evolve.

- To a lesser extent, I like that Dr. M'benga thought to donate his own blood to save Number 1 and I feel like it's a small, developing payoff to the rapport they started developing in earnest last episode.

- This episode is directly and deliberately invoking Trek 'Submarine Battle' stories like Balance of Terror, Wrath of Khan, and especially Starship Down, along with that one subplot from Disaster where the injured Chief Engineer and the Bestest Girl are trapped in the cargo hold with something that's going to blow up.

- This episode is just barely the longest one so far, but notably 8 minutes longer than the previous one, which was remarkably short. Despite this the pacing is really tight, and I feel like there might have been scenes or ideas cut for time.

- The Gorn rock. Between Into Darkness and Lower Decks trying to be in on the joke about rubber lizard people, making them a legitimately dangerous, borderline unknown, scary adversary while refusing to show the monster was a bold choice and it worked really well here.

- Speaking of not showing the monster, on repeat viewings there's some interesting directorial choices with the cutaways, there are three instances in the episode that I caught where they opted to keep the focus on the bridge: when Pike calls the away team back, when they drop the photon torpedo (they do show the launch, but cut back to the bridge well before the explosion), and near the end where he calls in to the cargo bay to find out of Uhura and the chief engineer are all right. In all three cases we're left with the bridge crew, and Pike in particular, as they work things out in a moment of uncertainty, and Anson Mount is really shining in these moments.

- And speaking of that, Pike is really growing on me as a character. He's a little more worldly than TOS Kirk, a lot more personable than Picard, and his sense of personal responsibility for his crew reminds me of best version of Janeway we got once in a while. I love the way he coaches his crew, you really get the sense that he sees potential in everybody and is eager to help them realize it.

- I'm not entirely clear on whether La'an's plan with the Gorn really helped them in the long run or only really served to help her arc here and show off a bit of a dark side. It does stretch belief a bit, unless someone comes up saying Gorn have no concept of lying or something. I'm also assuming the book her brother gave her in the flashback and the pages the camera focuses on it is some kind of subconscious metaphor for a much more complicated concept that doesn't operate on the premise that the Gorn language is just a cypher for english!

- This is another episode that acknowledges the ongoing series Star Trek Discovery exists, for those of you that consider that a dealbreaker somehow.

- That blueshirt gave up his life to save his redshirt friend!


They were firing on all cylinders this week and I sincerely hope we see more stuff aspiring to this standard going forward.


   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

Yeah, this latest episode was really good; proper Trek is back!

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 7 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord






I was curious to see what they would look like, and was a little disappointed when they weren’t shown, but I figure we’ll meet them again later.

 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

4 good episodes, colour me shocked, this series so far has been so much better than STD and "Picard"
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





 Formosa wrote:
4 good episodes, colour me shocked, this series so far has been so much better than STD and "Picard"


I maintain what held back those two series was the serial nature, it meant a single misstep in a single story tainted the entire season. SNW'S more episodic format allows them to avoid that.


Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




BrianDavion wrote:
 Formosa wrote:
4 good episodes, colour me shocked, this series so far has been so much better than STD and "Picard"


I maintain what held back those two series was the serial nature, it meant a single misstep in a single story tainted the entire season. SNW'S more episodic format allows them to avoid that.



That's... interesting. I find I enjoy 'serial' storytelling much more interesting than episodic, and I can't think of a series that was 'tainted' by even several bad episodes let alone a 'single misstep.' I can't think of any (even my favorites) where the writers didn't break out the Idiot Ball at some point.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






TBF I don't think they really could have done Picard outside of a serial show. It's just that it wasn't very good.
An episodic series does allow for a wider variety of storytelling and you can bury the worse episodes with the better ones (DS9 for example) but it's not automatically the better choice.
If the writers can mix serial with episodic in broad story arcs then it can work both ways (again DS9).
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

Voss wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Formosa wrote:
4 good episodes, colour me shocked, this series so far has been so much better than STD and "Picard"


I maintain what held back those two series was the serial nature, it meant a single misstep in a single story tainted the entire season. SNW'S more episodic format allows them to avoid that.



That's... interesting. I find I enjoy 'serial' storytelling much more interesting than episodic, and I can't think of a series that was 'tainted' by even several bad episodes let alone a 'single misstep.' I can't think of any (even my favorites) where the writers didn't break out the Idiot Ball at some point.


I find the issue isn't serial vs non-serial but well-thought-out vs who fething cares pew pew lasers are what the people want! Discovery presumed that no one would give a gak about the details and like a lot of modern film hoped to blitz through a story so fast no one had time to really notice how bad that story was. Picard had the same problem IMO, just with better actors on the whole and a lot of groundwork someone did to arrange for a good story that was properly tossed once filming actually began. There's nothing wrong with serial, episodic, or mixed format programming and that's not really the issue I think that sparks arguments over Disco or Picard's quality

The problem that plagued Discovery and Picard is that they assumed the audience would accept anything so long as they got to see starships and a speech, even things that make no sense or are forced beyond SOD because there's a laser show we need to get to and who cares about nuance. Even the stupid crap that was clearly the effects or CGI departments creating bullet points for their resumes that didn't need to happen and made the story more convoluted rather than less. SNW has basically beaten them out by being just a modicum more well put together. It's really just not that hard to not suck. Maybe you won't get any awards but the most straightforward explanation really is that the showrunners were lazy/disinterested/assumed their audience wouldn't care about X or Y so long as Z was flashy.

To be as bluntat as I can, Discovery treats scifi like low budget porn. Except the thing about porn is that it's porn. No one gave a gak about it having a story in the first place.

This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2022/06/01 20:39:17


   
Made in nl
Hardened Veteran Guardsman




BrianDavion wrote:
 Formosa wrote:
4 good episodes, colour me shocked, this series so far has been so much better than STD and "Picard"


I maintain what held back those two series was the serial nature, it meant a single misstep in a single story tainted the entire season. SNW'S more episodic format allows them to avoid that.



Found that very true with Disco series 3 I really enjoyed a majority of it, even eagerly anticipating new episodes. However the finale was just an absolute mess and marred the whole series for me. When the whole Paramount+/Netflix fiasco unrolled I was initially disappointed but having come off such a low point from the series before I've found I'm not bothered at all.
   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Talk about Orville in the Star Trek thread instead of dredging up its individual one from the depths? There’s going to be back and forth comparisons galore so might as well condense them…

But yeah, damn, that season premiere. One part showing off their apparently improved special effects budget and new cgi assets, and five parts ten ton emotion weight. This episode is Heavy and it’s going to take some processing.

 
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






When it first came out I was really hesitant to watch it mostly because I'm not the biggest fan of Seth MacFarlane and I thought it was going to be a really bad parody of ST. But I watched it anyway and it really blew me away with how well it came together, then it just got better as time went on.

Oof that is pretty heavy.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/02 13:29:17


 
   
Made in es
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer






 AduroT wrote:
Talk about Orville in the Star Trek thread instead of dredging up its individual one from the depths? There’s going to be back and forth comparisons galore so might as well condense them…

But yeah, damn, that season premiere. One part showing off their apparently improved special effects budget and new cgi assets, and five parts ten ton emotion weight. This episode is Heavy and it’s going to take some processing.


Holy gak, yeah, that was rough. I think it was absolutely great, and I love how they didn't go for the "moral highground" in anything. It is a tough issue, and they treat it as if it is.

I would say it surprises in a "funny" show, but... not really, not anymore.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Lebanon NH

[SPOILER ALERTS for ORVILLE S01E01]

I'm just going to say that I did NOT enjoy the 1st episode of Orville season 3. As someone who has both struggled with suicidal thoughts my entire life and known quite a few people who have died that way... I really just didn't think that the depiction here did it any justice.

Weirdly, it's not even that such things CAN'T be depicted well on screen. Though it's a very different show, "House" had probably the very best episode on the subject, ranging through all the different emotions and trying, futilely, to make sense of it all... This, by comparison, just felt forced and flat and the stakes never felt very high because... I guess I just never actually believed that it would "stick".

(Plus I couldn't STAND the new crew member, who I am now naming "Little Blonde Racist" forevermore.)

I don't know. It's possible that this format was just never going to work for me in terms of a frank discussion of this particular subject.

I've used this analogy before, but if one were to make a grim and depressing reboot of the care-bears then, even if it was well done, who exactly would be the audience for it? Sure, you would probably get a few people tuning in for morbid curiosity... but can you really expect to be "moved" or whatever by that style of show?

Same here. Yes, the Orville is not JUST a comedy show, but even the other episodes that have dealt with serious issues have had plenty of jokes and character interactions to make the issues more palatable. I didn't get any of that here.

Instead of getting a fun, philosophical romp through space I was given a heavy handed attempt to be dramatic about a subject that many people have a difficult time even processing. My wife, who is still processing the aftermaths of a family suicide, could barely even watch the thing. Even when the whole thing was fixed it didn't do anything to repair the good will that was squandered.

We are going to tune in to the next episode, as we are long time fans, but if it's like this then I am going to turn it off and find something else.

Ugh.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

MASSIVE collection of ST books (in PDF form) on Humble Bundle right now

https://www.humblebundle.com/books/star-trek-library-hero-collector-books

These are basically a lot of lore and background books which focus heavily on the ships from all the core series of Original, TNG, DS9, Voyager, Discovery and some of the "Kelvin" Timeline. There's also Alien ships and a bunch of other stuff.

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Battle Barge Buffet Line

And the Eaglemoss ship books they put out a few years ago with alot of the art they commissioned for their ship releases. Thanks for the link.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Regarding this week's episode, I suppose Freaky Friday beats Spock's brain. For a filler bottle episode (admittedly with a few scenes of effect$), it was ok. I liked the new aliens.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/03 17:53:08


We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
 
   
Made in ca
Preacher of the Emperor






Ok, having watched both yesterday...

This is the first episode of the Orville I've ever seen (didn't realize it's on Disney+ now) and while I can't say I especially liked it, knowing what I know about the show I appreciate that they're trying to handle heavier themes. There's definitely moments in there I think were at least, at some stage in the script writing phase, supposed to be funny, but the actors playing them dead serious gave the episode more gravity than I think it otherwise would have had - and that's to its benefit.

Spoiler:
We've seen suicide covered in Star Trek before, but I don't think examined to this extent, and I at least appreciate that they're trying to go there. It's an ambitious choice, especially for the premier episode of the revamped show.

I did not like the ending. Maybe they thought this would be the most effective way to have this story because if there ever was a time to kill of a main cast member it would be the first or last episode of a season, so I think I understand why they did it this way.

I suspect the blond racist one will be making recurring appearances in the show, learning to overcome her trauma and recognize Isac as a person. I also think its really convenient that someone with a once-in-a-generation talent for quantum whatsit is also serving on this ship, is the Orville itself actually an important vessel?



Strange New Worlds episode 5 was a Hijinx, episode, to quote a character from the show. Its generally humourous and a bit of a tonal whiplash from the previous one, but that's exactly what people were saying would be a benefit of an episodic program and for the most part it works.

Spoiler:
I was half expecting the Enterprise to be completely fixed this episode following the events of the previous one, but instead its there, in spacedock, getting repaired, explicitly because of that battle. I was pleasantly surprised by that and it's always been something I wanted to see Voyager do: no need to go full serialization but you can have the captain's log say 'XYZ are being repaired because of N event from last episode' and its great continuity without intruding on the main story.

The A plot is a freaky-friday body swap plot where Spock and T'pring try to work out some of their relationship tension by doing a different, more complicated vulcany mind meld thing, it goes wrong, and they end up stuck in one another's body. But oh no, Spock has to help with a diplomatic thing, and T'pring is a Vulcan cop and the suspect is here on the station!

I really appreciated the moments where they'd discuss or subvert the tropes of these kinds of plots. With the two of them initially trying to keep it under wraps by posing as each other when Pike comes to visit, but immediately give up the ghost when it becomes clear he's going to drag one off and make it too complicated. Pike, in turn, rolls with it, and each of them enlist allies in this without lying to them, which I liked.

That said, I actually enjoyed the B plot more: the doctor lets slip that the crew think Una and La'an are lethally boring and anti-fun, just because they would rather stay on the ship and get work done during shore leave. To prove them wrong, they discover the fabled 'Enterprise Bingo' (which seems more like a list than actual bingo?) and get up to mischief trying to marathon it. Highlights include misusing the transporter to re-flavour gum, and shouting different destinations in the turbolift at the same time to see who the computer likes more.

Apparently Crewman Kyle, the transporter chief who almost died last episode is some kind of tyrant who terrorizes ensigns that get sent down to work for him?

In contrast to the previous episode, and more in keeping with the initial three, this is definitely more of an original take on a TOS style story (in this case, a jokey one with lower stakes like trouble with tribbles or in the cards) that tries to be that type of episode without borrowing the elements from it overmuch.

...Excluding of course, the cheesy fight song right at the start.


I find it funny that the Orville seems to be straining to put out the darkest, most serious episode it can, while SNW is equally straining to be silly.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/06/03 18:06:37


   
Made in ca
Rampaging Carnifex





Toronto, Ontario

After reading so much of the positive buzz surrounding SNW I decided to give it a shot. Wow, what a show! I'm only 2 episodes in but I'm shocked at just how actually good it is. It genuinely feels like Trek. I especially like Pike, Spock, and Uhura.
   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Orville: Little kinder to religion than they usually are. They still look down on it, but then go on to it being a real phenomenon that they’re perceiving thru the lens of their beliefs.
Spoiler:
So Orville’s version of the Borg? They said it was tech organic stuff, just more of a melding than cyborging, but it was definitely assimilation. I’m kind of sad the station turned out to be evil because of just How evil that thing looked. So so very stereotypically evil I wanted it to be a don’t judge a book by its cover deal.


Strange New Worlds: I guess I’ll spoiler this still…
Spoiler:
Although I’m not sure why I need to bother because this story is So predictable. You just immediately know where it’s going. I will say I was expecting them to be doing the SG1 story where they would have taken those nano implants from the super smart kid and distributed to the population, but no they went worse with the torture chair. Shame we didn’t get to hear Spock’s opinion on it though given his famous stance on the needs of the many.

 
   
Made in ca
Rampaging Carnifex





Toronto, Ontario

The most recent episode of SNW was... okay. I didn't love it, but it wasn't terrible.

Spoiler:
I found the whole thing a little convoluted to be honest, especially the transporter shenanigans with the kid. Had a hard time working out what exactly happened there. I also never really got a good sense of just what exactly the kid was doing for the rest of the planet that necessitated... whatever was happening to him in the chair.

I did love everything with the Doctor in this episode though, seeing his daughter dematerialize in mid-sentence like that was so sad.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Battle Barge Buffet Line

Major Grin continues to do the Continuum's work with nitpicking.



We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
 
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





 creeping-deth87 wrote:
The most recent episode of SNW was... okay. I didn't love it, but it wasn't terrible.

Spoiler:
I found the whole thing a little convoluted to be honest, especially the transporter shenanigans with the kid. Had a hard time working out what exactly happened there. I also never really got a good sense of just what exactly the kid was doing for the rest of the planet that necessitated... whatever was happening to him in the chair.

I did love everything with the Doctor in this episode though, seeing his daughter dematerialize in mid-sentence like that was so sad.


I just assumed the kid was needed to keep the astronomicon working

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord






The impression I got was the surface of the planet was uninhabitable, rivers of lava and stuff, so they lived in the floating cloud city utopia above it. The whole thing was kept running by a super advanced computer system that absolutely required the brain of a child for some of its hardware mapping less it fail and everything literally falls out of the sky.

 
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





which begs the question why they didn't just move to another planet? I would have happily accepted the idea that they suffered from massive tech loss if they didn't present us with super advanced tech that ended disease as a matter of course.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord






I have to assume the advanced medical tech is also a product of the super computer, and it makes their whole utopia possible and the immediate falling out of the sky is just the most urgent of effects for not maintaining the child torture chair. The whole point is to contrive the scenario of would you make one child suffer if it meant no one else ever had to, and I can accept their setup at face value because it’s not Too far fetched and they offer a few different viewpoints on it.

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Battle Barge Buffet Line

Yeah, it feels like they're an advanced civilization channeling a bit of the 40k Admech in that they're knowledgeable enough to operate it but not to improve/rebuild it and their other technology that they do understand, while apparently more advanced that the Federation at times, lags behind it. Plus they seem to be focused almost exclusively on non-military terrestrial applications given their markedly inferior ships.

We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
 
   
 
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