Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Niiai wrote:
I have you blocked shogun. So your posts just turn up as compromised. But I thought maiby I am to harsh and checked the remark. And you clearny understand what I am saying, you are just looking to bicker.

Most importantly you do not adress the actual argument that you are paying 1 CP for the relic, and you might not get much out of it before the important turns are over. Especially on an army that eat so much CP as tyranids.

Bicker? I simply genuinely didn't understand why you would say that the refund start at turn 2.

Adeptive neural lobe:

While the bearer is on the battlefield, each time your opponent spends a Command point to use a Stratagem, you can roll one D6: on a 5+, you gain 1 Command point.

So if the opponent uses 3 CP in the first battle round at average you already get 1 CP back. Most competitive armylist trow a lot of CP around at the first round. So if you pay 1 CP for this relic I think it is a good deal because even if you don't get to round 4 it is most likely that you profit from it in round 2 and 3. Like I said, if you pick this as a third relic (stratagem: 1extra relic = 1CP 2 extra relic = 3CP) then I might reconsider..... I rather have 2 CP then maybe 3+CP.

 Niiai wrote:
I rather think it will be a long time before I click on the read button on people I ignore. Apolegies to you others.

If you don't want to read my stuff than don't read it. Just don't call me rude or say that I bicker because you disagree with me.

I will never know.

Please take this petty argument to private messages, or drop it.

 MinMax wrote:
Please take this petty argument to private messages, or drop it.

Indeed, lets get back on topic...

So a win for Tyranids stampede list:

HQ: Flying Hive with bonesword (Synaptic hive blades relic), twin devourers, WL: rampaging beast and strategic adeption, murderous size, toxin sacs, glands
HQ: Swarmlord

TR: 3 warriors with talons, Synaptic link bioweapon bond
TR: 3 warriors with talons, Synaptic link bioweapon bond
TR: 3 warriors with talons

EL: 3 venomthropes

FA: Dimachaeron
FA: Dimachaeron
FA: Dimachaeron

HY: Scythed Hierodule
HY: Scythed Hierodule

Big beasty list, I think I would drop the venomthropes and free some points (drop the synaptic link on the warriors and switch to a talon hive tyrant) to add a malanthrope.

 Niiai wrote:
I have you blocked shogun. So your posts just turn up as compromised. But I thought maiby I am to harsh and checked the remark. And you clearny understand what I am saying, you are just looking to bicker.

Most importantly you do not adress the actual argument that you are paying 1 CP for the relic, and you might not get much out of it before the important turns are over. Especially on an army that eat so much CP as tyranids.

I rather think it will be a long time before I click on the read button on people I ignore. Apolegies to you others.

Yeah there's limit. Still you are pretty sure to get it refunded by T1. Or is the relic 2CP rather than 1 CP? If it's 1 then T1 you get 1CP=refunded.

Now T2 is earliest you can PROFIT from it.

Are you pretty shure to get it refunded by turn 1? Tyranids pretty much want to emty out quite fast. But other armies are not that CP dependent. If they use one stratagem turn one that is 33% to get it back. The same in the later turns when they start at 0 and they only get the 1 CP a turn.

My point beeing the relic is very far from a guaranteed 5 CP. And considering you often pay 1 CP to get it it is very far from a guaranteed 4 cp. If the game is over turn 2 (some games are) it is even worse. You are paying 1 CP to hope to get 2 back before the game is over.

While the relic certainly is nice it is not an autoinclude. And not nesaseraly a reason to be leviathan in a CS list.

 Niiai wrote:
Are you pretty shure to get it refunded by turn 1? Tyranids pretty much want to emty out quite fast. But other armies are not that CP dependent. If they use one stratagem turn one that is 33% to get it back. The same in the later turns when they start at 0 and they only get the 1 CP a turn.

My point beeing the relic is very far from a guaranteed 5 CP. And considering you often pay 1 CP to get it it is very far from a guaranteed 4 cp. If the game is over turn 2 (some games are) it is even worse. You are paying 1 CP to hope to get 2 back before the game is over.

While the relic certainly is nice it is not an autoinclude. And not nesaseraly a reason to be leviathan in a CS list.

What Niiai Fails to understand is that a stampede list really benefits from the Leviathan Hive mind Imperative stratagem apart from a few other great stratagems. So you might rather have a few extra CP at turn 3 or 4 (also because the stampede stratagems are so good!) then another second relic. If the game relies on 1 CP after the first battle round and is decided at turn 2 you already got a big win or it went really wrong.

It also depends if you just want to win the game or also want a high score, like in a tournament setting. For a high score you need to go for the objectives and might want to save the CP to keep using hive mind imperative at turn 3+. You could also do this with the +1 CP that you get in each command phase of course..

 Niiai wrote:
Are you pretty shure to get it refunded by turn 1? Tyranids pretty much want to emty out quite fast. But other armies are not that CP dependent. If they use one stratagem turn one that is 33% to get it back. The same in the later turns when they start at 0 and they only get the 1 CP a turn.

My point beeing the relic is very far from a guaranteed 5 CP. And considering you often pay 1 CP to get it it is very far from a guaranteed 4 cp. If the game is over turn 2 (some games are) it is even worse. You are paying 1 CP to hope to get 2 back before the game is over.

While the relic certainly is nice it is not an autoinclude. And not nesaseraly a reason to be leviathan in a CS list.

Sure? No. Pretty much nothing is sure apart from we all die. I have rolled 12 dice and not single 6 and that's not even that spectacular.

But you claimed earliest it gets refunded is T2. Which is flat out impossible unless either the refund never works in T1(ie you can't use it at all) or it costs 2CP.

If you get CP on T1 and it costs 1CP then it got refunded T1. Which you claimed is impossibility.

Yes I agree. I wrote the wrong turn. The point stil stands though.

I like Turtles!

shogun wrote:

 MinMax wrote:
Please take this petty argument to private messages, or drop it.

Indeed, lets get back on topic...

So a win for Tyranids stampede list:

HQ: Flying Hive with bonesword (Synaptic hive blades relic), twin devourers, WL: rampaging beast and strategic adeption, murderous size, toxin sacs, glands
HQ: Swarmlord

TR: 3 warriors with talons, Synaptic link bioweapon bond
TR: 3 warriors with talons, Synaptic link bioweapon bond
TR: 3 warriors with talons

EL: 3 venomthropes

FA: Dimachaeron
FA: Dimachaeron
FA: Dimachaeron

HY: Scythed Hierodule
HY: Scythed Hierodule

Big beasty list, I think I would drop the venomthropes and free some points (drop the synaptic link on the warriors and switch to a talon hive tyrant) to add a malanthrope.

Is the malenthrope meta dependant? It makes your bugs harder to kill (and let's say 2-3 big bugs max, or can you squeeze more into range?) and has some slight offensive power & board presence. But you could have a third hive tyrant; or an extra harpy or mawloc?

As you're thinking about a malenthrope, how about you drop a Dima and the venomthropes for a Malenthrope & a bunch of (4) hive guard? Then spare points for some adrenal glands.

Razerous wrote:

Spoiler:

shogun wrote:

 MinMax wrote:
Please take this petty argument to private messages, or drop it.

Indeed, lets get back on topic...

So a win for Tyranids stampede list:

HQ: Flying Hive with bonesword (Synaptic hive blades relic), twin devourers, WL: rampaging beast and strategic adeption, murderous size, toxin sacs, glands
HQ: Swarmlord

TR: 3 warriors with talons, Synaptic link bioweapon bond
TR: 3 warriors with talons, Synaptic link bioweapon bond
TR: 3 warriors with talons

EL: 3 venomthropes

FA: Dimachaeron
FA: Dimachaeron
FA: Dimachaeron

HY: Scythed Hierodule
HY: Scythed Hierodule

Big beasty list, I think I would drop the venomthropes and free some points (drop the synaptic link on the warriors and switch to a talon hive tyrant) to add a malanthrope.

Is the malenthrope meta dependant? It makes your bugs harder to kill (and let's say 2-3 big bugs max, or can you squeeze more into range?) and has some slight offensive power & board presence. But you could have a third hive tyrant; or an extra harpy or mawloc?

As you're thinking about a malenthrope, how about you drop a Dima and the venomthropes for a Malenthrope & a bunch of (4) hive guard? Then spare points for some adrenal glands.

This is just a list that I found that did well in a tournament... and I think I would simply switch the venomthropes and some extra points for a malanthrope. It could be better to invest the points in more "in your face" MC's but I think I like the -1 to hit against ork shooting.

Is there any way to make Crusher Stampede work without the FW models? As I understand I would need some hive guard, but what about monsters? Mellee carnifex and tyranifexes? Do trygons have a place?

I think the question is there a way to make Crusher Stampede work? Instead of just listing out things that are bad I can say the flying hive tyrant and swarm lord is good.

There was a period in 9th edition when marines did well that competetive tyranid lists ditched the hiveguards all together and did exocrines and it worked. For that brief window we where good. Then forge world dropped and people liked the big monsters there. So much Dimachaeron even got a point increase. However, the meta shifted quite hard with the intrudction of drukhari and admech. While reigned in grey knights are the new hotness (until chapter approved drops.) I don't think hive guard are mandatory, but the reason exocrines worked so well was because there where so many 2 wound marines around. These days there are also much ignore 1 damage models. Exocrines hate that.

Tyranofexes have always come out ahead in math hammer against T8 only. And they have been considered the inferior shooting platform. The flamer one has had some traction earlier, but never a powerhouse.

But why are you playing? To do well in tournaments or to have fun? If you do not play tournaments then just go ham with what ever crusher stampede you feel like. It is not like a crusher stampede with forge world models is the way to play warhammer, not even tyranids. Just do what you want.

(Regarding the trygon it costs to much compared to how fast it dies. Relic adrenal glands and re-roll charge is interesting but very unreliable. If you bring a trygon it is because of the synaptic link. Remember you can bring more then 3 synaptic links, you can only activate 3.)

The Tyrannofex is less bothered by - 1 damage, and benefits more from the Warrior's Synaptic Link.

Probably still not enough to win a tournament, but the mathammer of Tyrannofex vs Exocrine is literally an edition old.

Personally I plan on trying some Carnifexen...but my hopes are not high. But if our future codex gives them a much needed boost then they may become useful again. I think I may give Ole One Eye a try as well...why not?

I have purchased some GSC to use in Not Nidzilla, so I have some modeling, and painting to do.

Don't forget that the change to Symbiostorm to 'unmodified' 6's is also a big nerf to the Exocrine. When it was used it relied a lot on symbiostorm giving it exploding hits on a 5+.

Massed Carnifexes to double down on the CS buffs.

Alternatively the Doom Patrol could be, hilariously, fantastic. That's a bunch of t-cytes & s-cytes.

I've read through the last few pages searching for details regarding the Crusher Stampede. I played against it this past weekend at a tourney and got a tie. However, one unit was an absolute beatstick and was unsure how the rules interacted.

Harridan (Lord of War) in a Super Heavy Auxillary.

Can you all help me understand why it receives the benefits of the Crusher Stampede rules? Is there any other Super Heavy Auxillaries that potentially ignore the restriction of not getting detachment abilities?

 Sarigar wrote:
I've read through the last few pages searching for details regarding the Crusher Stampede. I played against it this past weekend at a tourney and got a tie. However, one unit was an absolute beatstick and was unsure how the rules interacted.

Harridan (Lord of War) in a Super Heavy Auxillary.

Can you all help me understand why it receives the benefits of the Crusher Stampede rules? Is there any other Super Heavy Auxillaries that potentially ignore the restriction of not getting detachment abilities?

Because Crusher Stampede rules are not detachment abilities, they are army wide abilities.

Interesting, they lose the rules a Harridan would not normally get access to if it was in an Auxillary detachment and gains these rules. That really increased the value of that model giving it a 5++ and -1 damage.

 Sarigar wrote:
Interesting, they lose the rules a Harridan would not normally get access to if it was in an Auxillary detachment and gains these rules. That really increased the value of that model giving it a 5++ and -1 damage.

Yes, yes, it does. Just remember that it can't be used in turn one of most dawn of war missions as its wingspan is too wide to fit, so it's forced to sit still for a turn. Or it can be reserved for 4 CP, if the player has that many to hand at the start.

 Verthane wrote:

 Sarigar wrote:
Interesting, they lose the rules a Harridan would not normally get access to if it was in an Auxillary detachment and gains these rules. That really increased the value of that model giving it a 5++ and -1 damage.

Yes, yes, it does. Just remember that it can't be used in turn one of most dawn of war missions as its wingspan is too wide to fit, so it's forced to sit still for a turn. Or it can be reserved for 4 CP, if the player has that many to hand at the start.

Take strategic adaptation, reserve it for free.

 Tyran wrote:

 Verthane wrote:

 Sarigar wrote:
Interesting, they lose the rules a Harridan would not normally get access to if it was in an Auxillary detachment and gains these rules. That really increased the value of that model giving it a 5++ and -1 damage.

Yes, yes, it does. Just remember that it can't be used in turn one of most dawn of war missions as its wingspan is too wide to fit, so it's forced to sit still for a turn. Or it can be reserved for 4 CP, if the player has that many to hand at the start.

Take strategic adaptation, reserve it for free.

Yes, that's a very good catch, a Leviathan warlord could take that as their warlord trait. Very nice!

Interesting. I didn't measure the size of the model, hut we also played the old Hammer and Anvil deployment zone (I forget which mission it was).

 Sarigar wrote:
Interesting. I didn't measure the size of the model, hut we also played the old Hammer and Anvil deployment zone (I forget which mission it was).

If it was Hammer and Anvil then he was legal and all good.

Also, some (to many) TOs only treat the Base as having to fit, not the wing span. So that might have been opperent there.....the "Hairy Dan" is a super skew list. But if somebody owns one, they should be able to play it.

Hairy Dan... Harridan list?

Yep

Mmh.

So I'm currently considering options for a Flyrant and foot Tyrant.

I know devourers are loved but the problem is that no AP in a world of Transhuman stratagem usage is a pretty solid hit to them.

Currently my mind is thinking the following...

Crusher Stampede - Leviathan

Flyrant - Twin Boneswords - Synaptic Hive Blades, Rending Claws, Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands

Psychic - Aggressive Surge, Synaptic Barrier
WL Traits - Rampaging Beast, Gestalt Commander (Alpha Leader Beast)
Monstrous Size (Progeny of the Hive)

Favouring this build as a fast moving assassin or problem solver rather than the twin-devourer Tyrant. Running the Behemoth WL Trait, buffed up and with the RBeast Warlord Trait and Monstrous Size...

A potential 11 attacks at S7, -3 AP, D3 ignoring invulns seems like it will take care of most troublesome units - before adding in the additional 2 damage every time a 6 is rolled to wound.

Furthermore, if I was more concerned for armour saves 10 attacks with Monstrous Rending Claws is still a wonderful, cruel little thing, especially with rerolls to wound and the bonus damage on 6s in a world of Transhuman physiology. If anything, Transhuman actually helps as it means even more chances to fish for 6s and that lovely -6 AP and Damage 5 (!!)

The foot tyrant, I will admit is more likely to be a staple Scytal/Venom Cannon backline support critter. I'm not wanting to completely strip away melee capability to turn it into a gunboat simply because getting bogged down in combat will suck and also, scytals for the straight consistency of -3 AP, 3 damage rather than fishing for a D3 - still making it a threat.

He's essentially backline with Catalyst and Psychic Scream.

My main thoughts are bouncing around making the Slayer the Foot Tyrant...but then, no. I think not to be honest. The wings let him jump across screens to get to those juicy support pieces or units and the speed lets him reposition across the table quickly enough to adapt.

I'm seeing the Crushers being something of an odd mix - you've got some long range firepower with T-fexes, Hierodules and Exocrines, as well as some HVC support from Tyrants and Harpies - can make a very solid mid range hybrid force with Warriors, Acid Tfexes and Devilfexes ....

And a solid potential for assault between a Slayer Tyrant, Dimas or just a staple Carnifex Stampede.

I do have eventual plans for a Dima or two but I also want to flesh out a lot of options first with where to go. I'm trying to keep my Warriors flexible - as the only ObSec unit Crushers have, they need to be flexible enough to clear through shooting or assault.

So my brood ideas are Lash and Bonesword, Deathspitters or Dual Sword, Deathspitters.

Again, Scytals may be cheap but no AP in a game which has oh so many 3+ saves running about is painful. Normally it's fine in traditional nids where you can rely on weight of fire from various sources, but the Crushers are a different thing.