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This thread continues where the original thread has come to an end. Many exalts to PrimalExile for his initial work. The thread is dead. Long live the thread.


Kickstarter Link
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/warpath-the-sci-fi-battle-game/description

Current Stretch Goal:



Sweet spot pledge level:



$75 add-ons, one included in the sweet spot:





Full list of stretch goals:














...230K GBP ('fake') stretch for Plague heavy weapons, no stretch goal image.









GCPS metal character, added to BG.


Enforcer Breach and Eradicate team, metal upgrade components




$450.000 USD

I dropped my pledge, that other guys poor job at running the thread killed it for me.
Mantic, almost.

:O that's a new reason for Azazeling a pledge to me. Okay, no pressure then

Working on the TS, I'm not sure carbon copying the updates is the way to go so I'm trying something different.

I've gotta admit, I'm kinda hesitant about warpath myself. - Well, I say hesitant, but I know that I'm going to be in for, at the very least, the $50 pledge and a bunch of vehicles, just for my pre-existing Enforcer army (Currently sitting on an early bird right now).

But, the more I play other games, the more I come round to thinking that the 40k scale of things is just fundamentally flawed as a concept. - This goes doubly true for 40k itself but, I just didn't know any better. The scales just physically can't match up, not matter the ruleset. - Square peg, round hole, basically.

And none of this is Mantic's fault, really. To be honest, I don't think they've planned huge projections for this kickstarter, as I think they know this too.

So I think what we're going to get is the best that mantic can manage for, what they even understand, is an ultimately flawed concept for a game.

 Compel wrote:
I've gotta admit, I'm kinda hesitant about warpath myself. - Well, I say hesitant, but I know that I'm going to be in for, at the very least, the $50 pledge and a bunch of vehicles, just for my pre-existing Enforcer army (Currently sitting on an early bird right now).

But, the more I play other games, the more I come round to thinking that the 40k scale of things is just fundamentally flawed as a concept. - This goes doubly true for 40k itself but, I just didn't know any better. The scales just physically can't match up, not matter the ruleset. - Square peg, round hole, basically.

And none of this is Mantic's fault, really. To be honest, I don't think they've planned huge projections for this kickstarter, as I think they know this too.

So I think what we're going to get is the best that mantic can manage for, what they even understand, is an ultimately flawed concept for a game.

I suspect they are actually aiming for a certain range; not below, but not that much over either. Just fill a couple production slots they have sculpts ready for; with HIPS production they will have to account for that sort of pipeline.
As for the rules/scale issue, well, the more tactically challenging game would likely be had at 6-15mm - however, I really like painting 28mm infantry. 15mm not so much, and I suspect I'm hardly the only one who feels like that. It is a bit of a compromise, sure - but there's just nowhere near the fun to be had on the modelling side of things (infantrywise, that is) when you scale stuff down. So as long as we want to play something at solid platoon-strength and up levels, we're stuck with this situation.

As for your pledge, well: since you'd be paying $30 for a vehicle anyway it's just $45 (or $35 since you have an EB!) for one of those army sets - and that's a steal. If you're going for the enforcer vehicles in particular: even if the 'bunch' of vehicles were to be just two of them, you could get another two (plus those idiotic exclusive vehicle bits... seriously Mantic?!?) for just $5 more. I'd stick with the EB sweet spot if I were you!

So what are you saying Compel, that if we want to play a hundred plus man engagement we need to use 6-15mm models? Or am I misinterpreting you? Makes some sense if I'm reading it right.

I'm leaning towards skirmish myself honestly. But I 'grew up on' 40k and honestly I could still have fun playing such a game in a similar setting. Though. Really. If someone starts making awesome 10-15mm scifi minis and has good rules for them... I always wanted to try making scenery on that scale. Have your wee little units breaching wee little buildings and such, it would be adorable.

But lately I'm a painter first and eventually I'm going to have armies of stuff. I prefer 28mm for painting so far so I'm gonna have 28mm armies. So I'll appreciate having some rules to use with them.

--edit-- bolognesus kind of said what I said but more succinctly. I think 15mm could be fun to play but 28mm is better for painting (for me).

Also, like with most Mantic kickstarters, at this point I agree that doubling up an early bird is probably going to become the go-to method for maximizing goodies.

Mantic's lovely fethhuge images are going to make this a beast of an OP to scroll through no matter what I do.

Anyway, I always loved SS's KS bundle value summaries (I'm sure we all fondly remember that KoW1 thread OP!) so I'd say it'd be a good idea to do one here. One problem, though: what base price/unit to go with?
My thought would be to go with realistic prices from earlier KS(s) where there's no individual add-on price for the model or unit in this one, and skip the deals like 20 for $20 we likely won't be getting again.
Essentially: $10 for 5 regular enforcers or peacekeepers, $15 for 10 pathfinders + 2 dog drones, $15 for a strider (realizing that that one in particular is a bit of a made up number), $10 for two jetbikes etc.
Before I start digging into the two factions for which I can't remotely do this from memory, if anyone has a better suggestion please speak up. If not I'll get on that tomorrow or so.

I think we all know there's gonna be a 3 for 2 battlegroups pledge level come the first big stall in the funding

 Compel wrote:
I've gotta admit, I'm kinda hesitant about warpath myself. - Well, I say hesitant, but I know that I'm going to be in for, at the very least, the $50 pledge and a bunch of vehicles, just for my pre-existing Enforcer army (Currently sitting on an early bird right now).

But, the more I play other games, the more I come round to thinking that the 40k scale of things is just fundamentally flawed as a concept. - This goes doubly true for 40k itself but, I just didn't know any better. The scales just physically can't match up, not matter the ruleset. - Square peg, round hole, basically.

And none of this is Mantic's fault, really. To be honest, I don't think they've planned huge projections for this kickstarter, as I think they know this too.

So I think what we're going to get is the best that mantic can manage for, what they even understand, is an ultimately flawed concept for a game.

I don't disagree. Since the beginning of Warpath it has seemed like it was intended to be what 40k used to be pre-apocalypse. That mutated over time I guess, but I've always felt like 6-15mm were best for large scale (I still play Epic:Apocalypse now and then and have recently started my 15mm army for Gruntz).

I don't know that flawed concepts is as much of their problem though as simple communication is to avoid misplaced expectations.

As it stands, I think people were looking to DZ to be Killteam or Necromunda but Mantic and WP to be 40k.. but.. Mantic (same for KoW and WHFB). I don't know why I (or anyone) has expected this to change. Until now, I've been looking for enough similarities for me to convince myself to stay on board but I'm just really not there with it. I like enough of their models to buy them for other stuff but I think I've just convinced myself that Mantic is just on a different (and for me unappealing) wavelength as far as game development.

I'm hopeful enough to give the Firefight rules a chance but I think it's pretty obvious that I'm skeptical by now.

Basically, kinda yeah.

Though my main plan at the moment would be to go for the $50 pledge, plus the Vehicle bundles they'll put out at some point.

But yeah, basically, for the past couple of years I've been dabbling in Dropzone Commander, which is 10mm and yeah, that, or, in the interests of unbiasedness, similarly scaled games, feel at the level that the 40k type games 'should' be. Because having hundred plus sci fi soldiers, plus a half dozen large vehicles on a 6' by 4' is just, like I said, a flawed concept, can't physically work properly.

Square peg, round hole.

 GrimDork wrote:
So what are you saying Compel, that if we want to play a hundred plus man engagement we need to use 6-15mm models? Or am I misinterpreting you? Makes some sense if I'm reading it right.

I'm leaning towards skirmish myself honestly. But I 'grew up on' 40k and honestly I could still have fun playing such a game in a similar setting. Though. Really. If someone starts making awesome 10-15mm scifi minis and has good rules for them... I always wanted to try making scenery on that scale. Have your wee little units breaching wee little buildings and such, it would be adorable.

But lately I'm a painter first and eventually I'm going to have armies of stuff. I prefer 28mm for painting so far so I'm gonna have 28mm armies. So I'll appreciate having some rules to use with them.

--edit-- bolognesus kind of said what I said but more succinctly. I think 15mm could be fun to play but 28mm is better for painting (for me).

Also, like with most Mantic kickstarters, at this point I agree that doubling up an early bird is probably going to become the go-to method for maximizing goodies.

I don't want to drag this off course but 15mm has some pretty amazing stuff out these days thanks to 3d printers. I won't go into full details but Gruntz is a very flexible ruleset with mechanics that Warmahorde players should pick up quickly and 40k players won't be far behind. I was kinda hoping Mantic would be going that route for the huuuuge scale side of this tbh. They did flirt with the idea of 10mm but either way, I really like small to medium sized engagements for 28mm. If anything, for the amount of space it's supposed to occupy to scale with the real world. Scaled up it would be maybe a block or two.

Any vehicle bundle is likely to be a battlegroup. That means that either at $75 for the BG plus $50 for the basic pledge you won't be any cheaper off than with the sweet spot, and if you get the EB it's $10 cheaper already. Add to that the free vehicle and pretty much anyone who wants both rules and vehicles is extremely likely to be better off with the sweet spot pledge than with the $50 one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MLaw wrote:

 GrimDork wrote:
So what are you saying Compel, that if we want to play a hundred plus man engagement we need to use 6-15mm models? Or am I misinterpreting you? Makes some sense if I'm reading it right.

I'm leaning towards skirmish myself honestly. But I 'grew up on' 40k and honestly I could still have fun playing such a game in a similar setting. Though. Really. If someone starts making awesome 10-15mm scifi minis and has good rules for them... I always wanted to try making scenery on that scale. Have your wee little units breaching wee little buildings and such, it would be adorable.

But lately I'm a painter first and eventually I'm going to have armies of stuff. I prefer 28mm for painting so far so I'm gonna have 28mm armies. So I'll appreciate having some rules to use with them.

--edit-- bolognesus kind of said what I said but more succinctly. I think 15mm could be fun to play but 28mm is better for painting (for me).

Also, like with most Mantic kickstarters, at this point I agree that doubling up an early bird is probably going to become the go-to method for maximizing goodies.

I don't want to drag this off course but 15mm has some pretty amazing stuff out these days thanks to 3d printers. I won't go into full details but Gruntz is a very flexible ruleset with mechanics that Warmahorde players should pick up quickly and 40k players won't be far behind. I was kinda hoping Mantic would be going that route for the huuuuge scale side of this tbh. They did flirt with the idea of 10mm but either way, I really like small to medium sized engagements for 28mm. If anything, for the amount of space it's supposed to occupy to scale with the real world. Scaled up it would be maybe a block or two.

Level of detail is one thing, I'd like to be able to actually put a brush to it and not need a magnifying glass to see even half the detail even if I somehow manage to get it painted at half the size. Different considerations here

 judgedoug wrote:

Don't you realize Squig that when one must take an anti-Mantic position they must contort themselves in all manner of strange shapes in order to justify their beliefs
"Oh the glory days of restic! Those were the days! Not this hard plastic nonsense now! Mantic... almost"

Sad as it is, Restic appears to be the better medium for some models. Ogre-Troll-Golem sized models that don't suffer as much from shrinkage. etc - especially those that are not over-detailed. The problem is that Mantic went all-in on Restic for everything - so we all got way too many small and fiddly models, with mould lines across faces in what is a pretty awful material for things like that - which resulted in so much backlash that they've cut it out entirely and to offer it again, even for material-appropriate figures like that huge golem for KoW would result in more backlash from consumers who they managed to turn off the material entirely. (And yeah, that is their own fault).

Obviously hard plastic is the best solution for their mass-produced models, but metal has a place for people like you and myself who weren't brought up playing exclusively with GW's plastic kits. Unfortunately Hybrid models and metals have their own drawbacks if not planned properly. Examples include the wings on the Basiliean Character models from KoW1 (good luck pinning those! Dremel included in every kit?) and now, as already stated - metal jump packs on plastic figures - what could possibley go wrong?

Of course, I consider myself to have more of a critical stance than an anti-Mantic one. We'll see what the rules end up being like, though I may end up like their office Jetbike players and just use their models for 40k instead... At worst I get some Not-marines and Not-Squats.

Bolog, I shot you a PM as to not de-rail I definitely agree on the painting side too btw.

I'm going to go work on getting my game room done so I can actually push some model plastic dudesmen around now.

We're pretty close to the next SG, hopefully it'll be done by the time I'm back

Fired one back. I think we might have actually found an issue we don't even disagree on

And yes, fisty dwarfs incoming - all hail the top-heavy stunties!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Azazelx
IME a tactful blob of steel epoxy fixed those metal Elohi wings pretty well. I'd almost be more worried about the ankles of those models. Besides, if you absolutely must pin, Mantic's metals are generally quite soft and easy to drill into so you shouldn't need a dremel; a pin vice should suffice. IIRC those wings were pretty thick so it shouldn't be too hard to drill into.

Of all the quirks that first KoW KS turned out to produce I'm somewhat bemused how it's those angel characters that seem to keep coming up

I do agree with you when it comes to restic for larger models - I would have very much preferred the upcoming zombie trolls to have been restic rather than metal for example: cheaper and more convenient, and the lesser chance of damage in use or transport will on balance have them looking better as well.

And I'm subscribed to the Mantic Warpath KS thread... again!

Even with all the stretch goals, my feelings haven't changed: I'm pledging for just the rules, and waiting to see what they come up with for Asterians.

Man, as much stuff as ended up going into the Dungeon Saga KS, if I kickstarter this one my plastic mountain may tip over and cause an earthquake. . .

And we have 20 for $20 deals (once funded at $225k,)

I'm having some trouble convincing myself that dude in the top right is not wearing a bowler hat anyway, OP updated, I'm off.

Very pleased to see 20 for $20 return.

Indeed! I don't *love* the plague bundle, but it seems like a decent deal. 60 hard plastic infantry, 6 restic ogre-sized monsters, two even bigger restic monsters too. Man... volume-wise the plague BG is the best hands-down. 68 minis, almost down to a dollar/mini already and the terraton/1st gen are really chunky minis.

A little unsure of the disposition. I'm sure a 40/20 split is just fine for zombies/warriors, but I've already got 90something plague zombies and only 20-30 warriors (forget how many you get in two strike teams plus whatever else I wound up with) so it'll be 130/50. I guess if I just order one 20/$20 it'll be about the same split so not a big deal.


Oh also, I just realized in that update. Am I reading it correctly that the $15 drop-fathers set is for six forge guard with the metal bits, and not just for the metal bits? If the case, such a good deal.

What are the 20 for $20 deals?

Lemme dig up the photo.


It was a teeny bit different in the DZ:I kickstarter (I think the first price was $10 not $8) but basically the deal on infantry gets better the more you buy up till they're a dollar a piece in batches of 20. It's just on that new unit so far, but I suspect we may see more of the same in the future.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That's an interesting commissar style cap, I must say.

Ah, thanks - I see it now - I am not sure how I missed it...

Off to bed for me then!

 GrimDork wrote:
Oh also, I just realized in that update. Am I reading it correctly that the $15 drop-fathers set is for six forge guard with the metal bits, and not just for the metal bits? If the case, such a good deal.

It establishes a pattern for metal-upgraded hard plastic units, since it follows the identical pricing of the Veer-myn creepers. Looks like we can expect $15 to be the standard for that, if there are any more metal / hard plastic hybrid variant kits like it coming. I have mixed feelings about hybrid metal / hard plastic, but I think the pricing is spot on. Even if I don't like the metal bits, I'm still getting good Forge Guard hp models for a good price. And if I do like the metal bits, so much the better.

I'd usually be weary of plastic/metal conversions (I still have nightmares about the original 40k Hellhound, the first GW kit I built), but replacement tops and arms for the Forge Guard shouldn't be an issue with unbalancing nor difficulty attaching.

Yeah, I don't want to go add-on heavy but the main things holding me back from that set was thinking it was *just* the metal bits for 3 dollars a pop, and also having to give up 6 of my 12 forge guard. But bumping the number up to 18 isn't excessive and it's a neat unit. Deep striking terminators aren't anything new, but they do it differently and come with different gear so I'll bite.

Arg, the Plague bundle will mostly be zombies. Guess what I bought a crapload of..
*facepalm*

If they do combo booster bundles to mix and match later on, that would be swell. Otherwise I'm probably stuck just doing add-ons. Ugh..

I had intended to buy the Plague Battlegroup, but I have 95 Zombies, 22 Stage 2's, a Stage 1 and a Teraton already.

I'm just gonna get a couple of 20 for $20 Stage 3 bundles instead. They look great!