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Hi

A friend of mine was a little disappointed for the performances of his classic 'nid list. So he turned (like 8 players of 10 here in italy ) to a godzilla list...

We had 2 games and he won both.

His tactic consist in hiding his raveners behind a wall of Carnifexes and Hive tyrants... when he's advanced enough (while firing like there's no tomorrow) the raveners comes out and they're too near and too fast to stop them.
With many troubles and many casualties i can destroy the raveners but the other big monsters are just too though.
Are there any general tactic against such an army?

His list is like this:

1 Flying Hive tyrant with double TL devourer
1 Hive tyrant with venom cannons and 2 guards (horribly tough)
3 Carnifexes (1 elite) with different weapons (1 with double TL devourer, 1 can fire 2 template...can't remember the other)
2x3 raveners
4 raveners
2x3 swarms
3 zoanthropes (-1 LD, small template s5 ap3, 1 shot st10 ap1)

He usually can afford 2 walls for its 3 units of ravener...He has 5 MTs and 3 ravener units.

He usually use 2 fexes and the Flying HT to shield 1 or 2 units...and the remaning fex and foot tyrant shields the others.

He has 2 groups (usually not too far from each others, so he can support both)... so they're often difficult to surround him.


Any tactic to suggest? I'm in some real trouble...

Having never played againt a Godzilla list, this is just speculation. But I'd think that Railguns and seeker missiles would be a good idea. I don't believe that he can give all of the carnis 2+ saves (although I fully admit that I could be wronge). So those ap 3 seekers should do the trick with wounding on 2s (same with the railguns).

I think the main idea here would be to concentrate fire. Dump everything high strength gun into one model until its dead. Then use your firewarriors and kroot to take out the little things. You could take a suiside squad to stealths to try and take out the zoanthraps that hide in the back. You can also take any devilfish that you have and ram them forward to bump back his assault units. Make them have to go around the fish.

My list would probably look something like this...

4 broadsides
two units of sniper drones.
Pathfinders
Two units of firewarriors in fish
two units of kroot.
two units of 4-6 stealths.
Commander of your choosing.
about 10 seeker missiles.

This will give you a lot of markerlights and ap 3 guns, or at least shots that wound on 2 - 4+ rather than needing 5s or 6s for the big bugs.

Anyway, this is 100 percent theory hammer on my part. I've never played against the big bugs.

Piranha's may help. They are the only Fast choice in your Codex i think, use them to bypass the MC's to target the raveners with your burst cannons and gun drones. Also the most important thing is, as ever, Fire discipline. concentrate your fire on the most immediate threat (probabaly his flying tyrant if the raveners are staying behind the MC's). Remember also that because his army is mostly not fleet, you may be able to outmanouvre him, use a few small sacrificial units of kroot to tie him in CC (they will die, but thats the idea) move your firebase back out of assault range, and then shoot him to pieces again in the next turn. Looking at his list, it looks as though lots of pulse rifles, burst cannons and other medium strength weapons may serve you better then railguns etc.

I don´t fancy your chances of winning a firefight.

By playing the mission maybe....

or

By taking 9 broadsides and alot of kroot to protect them then maybe.... course the enemy still needs a reason to get infront of the broadsides.

Really tought match up for tau though, really tough!

Oh and the kroot as tie up unit wont work unless your good at passing ld2 tests because of the psychic screams he has. Chances are they will increase his speed rather than decrease.

okay, this is just a guess but...aren't Tau supposed to be THE Army when it comes to shootin'. I know, most of them have BS 3, but still. and I've never heard of somebody using a shooty Godzilla list. and when his Tyrants fly, he can't have Bodyguards.

okay, this is just a guess but...aren't Tau supposed to be THE Army when it comes to shootin'.

Supposed to be yes...can they outshoot tyranids...no

I've never heard of somebody using a shooty Godzilla list.

Where have you been, I was just at a 40k tournament with 30-40 players, I was actually working so my shooty zilla nids where not there and still there where 3 others!

Shooty zilla is becoming very popular in Finland atleast.

when his Tyrants fly, he can't have Bodyguards.

So? this hardly stops it getting into CC without taking a single shot.

I always thought the fun in Godzi list was, wait what was the name...? now I remember: Close Combat!

You may continue to think this......

Truth is the shooty zilla nids will still kick alot of *donkey*in CC, fexs instakilling anything not T5 or more and the tyrant, ravaners and stealers killing all else.

Markerlights, big teams of firewarriors and railheads. With some Fireknife thrown in for good measure.

Basic fire warriors are good, most nids have a poor save and S5 shots wound even the big boy nids on a 5+. Saves will get failed in the end.
Missile pods help because 4+ saves are as tough as must nids get, and they wound most medium sized nids on 2+. Plasma rifles deal with the big stuff. Railheads deal with hordes, they add fire against the big stuff, but only do one wound. Not enough really.

Markerlights are needed to make your shots count.

Zilla nids have a lot of medium sized support, get rid of it first so you can then deal with the slow big things at the back.

I play a 'zilla list against a friend of mine who plays a Tau list 90% of the time. I've found that either firing blocks of Fire Warriors and Marker Drones, or some good Stealth Team placement can be a serious headache for me. If my pie plates don't do enough damage to the FWs, they can easily riddle a 'fex with enough shots to go down in a turn or two, particularly if he's chucking markerlight bonuses on them each round. And a stealth team or two opening up with burst cannons into the more vunerable squads or into the backs of my bigg'uns and then assaulting and scooting can be a big problem.

Where I play, everyone who plays Tyranids and is a threat, plays zilla list. Even the Genestealer Cult player has done it. 5 or more TMCs with 5 wounds and 2+ armor is just plain tough. Swarms and Ravenors are no problem. It's those pesky TMCs. They are just too tough to kill.

First, I play Mech Tau. I have a very hard time with those lists. I can pull out a win, but it does involve a little luck and some very tactical thinking.

First off, Kroot are not even a speed bump. They provide a means for a Flying Hive Tyrant to get 6" closer and wipe out a unit. If the Kroot hold for his assault, then the Tyrants hidden from shooting. If not, he is usually in woods for cover, because that's where you put the Kroot.

Broadsides are good, but again, they are going to die. They will spend 2 turns shooting, if lucky, and take out 1 monster before something reaches them and they are dead or in combat for several turns before dieing. Sniper Teams also fall into this category, but there also not as good. With an AP of 3, Armor 2 just laughs. Since they can't really move either, they will eventually become lunch.

The only real weapons you have against these things are Railguns, Plasma, and Fusion Blasters. So guess what, Hammerheads and Suits. Essentially, you play the same game he does. He loads up on Heavyies and Elites (Carnifex) and HQs, you do the same. Your 3+ Armor and move and shoot will keep your suits going for a few turns. Heavy vehicles and Broadsides can also take some punishment. Your Troops are there to try and take some fire away from the real shooters.

Don't think for a minute that your FW or Kroot can stand or tie up anything he has of value. Even with an Ethereal, FW cannot stay in combat and they will always loose. Kroot are worse. They will always loose and be outnumbered due to MC rules. The FW could take out some Ravenors or Swarms if they can get a shot, but who cares. Those things can't hurt you as much as the TMCs.

The shooting trick, as is a must with Tau, is concentrate fire. You must kill the thing you shoot at. First must be the Flying Tyrant. He is a threat even to vehicles. Second is the Carnifex with the Venom Cannon. S10 shots ruin your day. They are also worth a lot of points so they are good. Then do the other stuff. You can always use Target Locks with your SMS to take out swarms and other light troops. They have a miniscule change of hurting at TMC, but can work against those other things. The SMS can shoot behind the TMCs so use it.

The real trick is mobility. Against Tyranid, I always find myself surrounded by turn 3 unless I've got mobility. Keep away, use terrain, always play the mission.

I won't kid you. The zilla list is tough for Tau. It's tough for most.

Basic fire warriors are good, most nids have a poor save and S5 shots wound even the big boy nids on a 5+. Saves will get failed in the end.

Sounds great! oh wait, 114pts of devourer fex kills 3 FWs a turn.
120pts of FWs kills 0.7 wounds of fex (less than 2 FWs in cost)

Then there is the problem of 1 ravaner kicking all kinds of FW butt in CC.

Missile pods help because 4+ saves are as tough as must nids get, and they wound most medium sized nids on 2+.

True, but godzilla lists leave the mid sized tyranids at home. They bring 28-32 T6 3+ save wounds to the table.

Railheads deal with hordes, they add fire against the big stuff, but only do one wound. Not enough really.

Like you said, the 1 wound is nothing against the zilla army. To put it into perspective your 170pts railhead is likely to shoot what 3-4 times during the entire game due to being shaken occasionally, that or destroyed, so you are lucky to get maybe 1.5 wounds on the MCs after minimal cover saves.

Zilla nids have a lot of medium sized support, get rid of it first so you can then deal with the slow big things at the back.

Really? I mean they have no spare elite or HQ slots for warriors as they are filled with fexs and tyrants.....
So um....not really no. I fill my 3 Fast slots with 3 ravaners, alot of people I have seen use just 2.
Is 2 alot?

Or are you counting stealers as mid sized nids? Some people use MC stealer lists but your not going to be getting los to the stealers with....well.....anything.

Except all the nice SMS if you have them. That is one small amount of consolation.

There is also the Zoas that can be targetted if you can manage it.

But really, Tau vs Shooty Zilla nids is just not friendly. If you are a better tactician than the other guy, you may pull out a win. If they are near your abilities though, prepare to lose hard.

You'll have a hard time in gamma missions but you should be able to lay the smack down in omega, escalation is brutal on 'zilla nids.

SMS are great at killing ravaners, not much else but ravs are so dangerous its worth having for the ravaners alone.

Zoans have 2+ saves with no instakill from synapse so your best bet is to ignore them when up against a zilla list.

Not sure how much you think escalation will really hurt the nids, brutal seems a tad exaggerated. If there is even 1 decent terrain piece near his table edge he can stay out of sight untill most of his army arrives and chances are its easier for him to take objectives as making a MC non scoring is alot harder than making a tau squad non scoring.

Though if your lucky and the objectives are far from his table edge the MCs will be too slow to get to them without extra turns.

vsurma wrote: Like you said, the 1 wound is nothing against the zilla army. To put it into perspective your 170pts railhead is likely to shoot what 3-4 times during the entire game due to being shaken occasionally, that or destroyed, so you are lucky to get maybe 1.5 wounds on the MCs after minimal cover saves.

vsurma wrote:Not sure how much you think escalation will really hurt the nids, brutal seems a tad exaggerated. If there is even 1 decent terrain piece near his table edge he can stay out of sight untill most of his army arrives and chances are its easier for him to take objectives as making a MC non scoring is alot harder than making a tau squad non scoring.

This is why in this one case I'd take broadsides (move and shoot broadsides at that) in place of a hammerhead. While I love my hammerheads, against the big bugs the broadsides are just a better deal. Twice as many railguns for the same points. Always start on the table, and lets not forget 8 SMS shots (per set of 2) that can reach out and touch stuff out of sight and never have to test for closest target. Also the guns can't be silenced without killing them and a few 2+/4+inv save close protection drones are really going to help keep those guns firing.

Actually, if I was tailoring a list, I would go with SMS on the fish, and plasma rifles on the Broadsides. Very nice for adding wounds on the big bugs, which you will have to deal with.

Your best bet at trying to outshoot them is 9 broodsides with a bunch of kroot around them in case anyone the opponent has a lictor, with plenty of kroot protecting them from ravaner assualts.

That said if your playing in a tournament which is the most likely place you will meet the tyranids (least in my country) then you won´t have these.