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Made in de
Dominating Dominatrix






Piercing the heavens

in the Ork Thread a few lines below, somebody mentioned that Ork HQ is not as good as the HQ from other armies. so I just wanted to know, what do you think about this fact, and how do you equip your Warboss?
my Warboss is always equipped with a Choppa and a Power Klaw, so that he can use his full potenial in longer combats.
so, what about your's?
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






South NJ/Philly

It's pretty much a well known fact, the Warboss is one of the crappier Close Combat HQ's out there. What CC IC would he go toe to toe with and hope to come out on top? Maybe a poorly equipped SM Commander, but not against a Chaplain on the charge or equipped well enough, and certainly not against a Librarian. What HQ in the Nid Codex would you charge the Warboss at and hope to survive to I1 where you can use the PK? The Chaos Codex?

There are only two really good varients on the Ork Warboss are:
1.) The Feral Ork Warboss, since he can take a Power Weapon (Burna) and strike at Iniative and be mounted on a Boar to get into CC quicker
2.) The KOS or Evil Sunz Warboss that's mounted on a Bike. He gets the standard weapons of the Choppa and PK, but at least with him you can gaurantee CC on turn 2 and his entire job is to gaurantee that hit line squads (not character IC's) by turn 2.

I mean honestly if he wasn't a required choice for the Ork army, would you take him? I wouldn't, in fact I'm pretty sure you'd see every Ork list taking 2 Painbosses w/ Cybork Retinues mounted in Trukks, because he's honestly the only decent Ork IC, and that's only because of his retinue and ability to take a Trukk transport that isn't taking up a fast attack slot.
   
Made in us
[ADMIN]
President of the Mat Ward Fan Club






Los Angeles, CA


If I didn't have to take a Warboss I sure wouldn't either.

He's the only CC oriented character in the game that really can't protect himself against instant death, which really puts himself at a disadvantage.

Besides that, the Nob retinue is simply too expensive since it drives around in an AV10 vehicle. Having 300 pts in a single vehicle that blows up if gets breathed on is just too easy for your opponent to deal with.


1) If the Warboss could be made T5 or be made immune to Instant Death he'd be much better.
2) If the Warboss had a better choice of CC weapons that didn't make him I1 he'd be much better.
3) If the Warboss could take some upgrades to his Trukk to give it a better chance to survive fire he'd be much better.


I play (click on icons to see pics): DQ:70+S++G(FAQ)M++B-I++Pw40k92/f-D+++A+++/areWD104R+T(D)DM+++
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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




St. George, UT

My warboss is nekkid except for a slugga and a choppa. You know what else, he is the first to die to shooting casulties that come into the unit he is a part of. Heck thats 3 boys he keeps on the table. 12 choppa attacks on the charge, I'll take those over his lonly 6 anytime. It also makes it easier to make Mob checks having the extra boys around. Add me to the list of people who wouldn't take one if I didn't have too.

In my KOS list, I run a Big Mek as my HQ, why you ask? A - he is not a warboss. B - Powerweapon baby (burna), so what if he is S4 instead of S5, he can get just as many attacks (thanks to cybernic arm) and is I6 on the charge and thats usually good enough.

See pics of my Orks, Tau, Emperor's Children, Necrons, Space Wolves, and Dark Eldar here:


 
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




Warboss stats look good for 60 points. The simple problem is it is very hard to redeem those points back.
8-18 points for a 4/3+ save.
10 points for a 5+ I save.
30 points for Mega Armour...

It simply adds up way too quick.
He needs to come stock with 4+ save or maybe even 3+. Access to a better invulnerable save and a power weapon at less then 25 points at I1.

I just find the juiciest target of the enemy without a power weapon and just try to tie up a squad by throwing him in Mega Armour on a trukk.

There really is very few ways to make him worthwhile except sometimes running him with Tankbustas for leadership and extra rokkit.
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block





My warboss generally comes equiped with:

Choppa, Bigshoota/Rokkit & a cheeky grin

He leads my army from the front with his hand picked retinue (the grot screen).

   
Made in de
Dominating Dominatrix






Piercing the heavens

well, I never thought about it that way. I know that Painboss retinue is one of the best units in the Dex, but somehow it still fells very odd to me. I just like to use him. and I maybe wrong with this, but as long you have retinue, your HQ can't be atackked individually, or can he?
I'm just thinking about it...yes, my Boss Truck does get fried very early. yes, some of the bosses die in the process. but somehow, I just like to use him. it's a damn shame that he's so bad. I mean, I really like using him. he's a great opportunity to make conversions. but somehow... damn you all! you made me hate my HQ!

and just btw. you can give him an 5+ invularability save (not much I addmit) but I don't like it, since my Warboss just isn't the guy to be a Cybork. my Painboss, yes, but not Korrag Bugsmasha.
   
Made in ca
Drew_Riggio




Vancouver, British Columbia.

The Warboss can be a brute, but he is a glass hammer. When taking on characters, he needs to strike first, which means he needs to assault inside a large unit of boys and cannot use a power claw. Five str5 init8 choppa attacks will typically take down a 2-wound MEQ before it can strike back.

Again, however, this relies on the Warboss getting the charge and having a unit of boys to give him a successful Waagh roll. After the initial assault, the warboss is simply a 3-wound pointsink with paper-thin armor. If you don't manage to kill you target on the charge, the boss is dead.

   
Made in us
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets




Da Southern New Hampshire!

I play KoS, and like the guy above even just a Big Mek is a point sink.
As cheaply (yet effective) as possible he's still at 100 points.
His trukk eats 48 of that, so he costs 52 points.
A shoota with all the upgrades, a 4+ save, and probably an Iron Gob does the trick.
Though it is pretty nice to be able to block certain routes with his trukk and make him take some fire.

Warboss on a Bike? Points sink (you cant put him with outriders and get the scout, if you could HELL Id take one asap).
Warboss on a trukk? Points sink (hes just one guy!)
Warboss on foot? Poitns sink (who wants a 60+ pt guy walking 6" and dieing?)

If at first you don't succeed, you fail. 
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon





The House that Peterbilt

What about the Bad moons warboss: Mega armor, cybork body and kustom mega-blaster?

snoogums: "Just because something is not relavant doesn't mean it goes away completely."

Iorek: "Snoogums, you're right. Your arguments are irrelevant, and they sure as heck aren't going away." 
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






South NJ/Philly

The Boss on a Bike is expensive, but worth it IMO. He is a gauranteed turn 2 CC since you can charge him up 24" w/ the rest of your army or at least some of it and protect him from shooting because of his IC status. He then gets to charge just about anything he wants, which should be a nice 6 man las/plas squad or some other shooty unit that has little to do in CC.

I dunno I've found him useful in the games I've tried with him since you can psycho blasta on your turn and be pretty sure that your enemy will likely hold that combat, and your T5 3+ will protect you from having him take any real damage assuming you picked a smart charge. Next round in their CC Turn, you pull out the PK and wipe out the squad, moving on to the next target, etc.
   
Made in us
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets




Da Southern New Hampshire!

He gets pretty expensive though. Id rather drop him and get an extra unit of trukk boyz.

If at first you don't succeed, you fail. 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




What do you think of a Warboss with choppa and slugga, two Mekboys with burnas, and nine attack squiqs(three per guy). They still only move 6", but for 157 points you get 18 attacks and 14 wounds.
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






South NJ/Philly

Cheapest you can get a HQ for in KOS is 57 points, that's a naked Big Mek w/ Trukk and Grot Riggers. The Boss on a Bike tooled out comes to 160 points.

My idea of an optimized Trukk Boyz mob comes in at 177 Points:
10 Boyz
Nob w/ PK & Iron Gob
Burna
Trukk w/ Riggers, Paint, & Rokkit Launcha (to survive the first weapon destroyed result)

Going off that and subsequently tooling up the Big Mek to a reasonable level (Burna, 3+/5+ Save or at least just a KFF and no saves), you're not saving all that much, and you're going to have a problem with getting over 8 Trukks to run around with when you throw in the near obligatory looted tank (<3 the Demolisher).

I still think that the Boss on a Bike is decent, you gaurantee a Turn 2 CC in non escalation games, and the disruption he can cause is pretty devastating if you pick your targets well enough. 

Though he is not as good for the points as a Chaos or loyalist Beakie equivalent is, which is rather sickening.
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




Posted By Aronious on 05/09/2006 9:32 PM
What do you think of a Warboss with choppa and slugga, two Mekboys with burnas, and nine attack squiqs(three per guy). They still only move 6", but for 157 points you get 18 attacks and 14 wounds.



I don't think you can take 2 Mekboyz without taking the Nobz retinue first.

6 Points for 2 WS3 S3 non choppa attacks don't seem quite worth it to me.

If you got the points spare and it's legit then maybe to give such a small unit a little more ooomph, but not much more.

   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Ah, I see now, "If the Warboss is accompanied by a bodyguard he may also..." thanks MrOrk2U. I'm still trying to figure out the codex, the Mekboyz were listed in the bodyguard box, didn't understand the wording. Ya, I'm not sure how to take the Boss, maybe attach him to a squad.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Denison, Iowa

I know that it is expensive as all hell, but i love to have a warboss with 9 nobs all in mega armor in a truck. I run them up behind a peice of terrain and let them out of that moving coffin as soon as possible. They are good for vehicle busting and taking on sudo- close combat quads like ogryn.
   
Made in de
Dominating Dominatrix






Piercing the heavens

well, just that you can't take 9 Bosses with Mega-Armor in a Truck since they need space for two
   
Made in us
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets




Da Southern New Hampshire!

Doesnt say that anywhere. Orks in Mega Armor are not in Terminator armor!
You CAN take 10 orks in mega armor.

If at first you don't succeed, you fail. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Silverdale, WA

Are you gys forgetting about the Imperial Guard!? Compared to a Heroic Senior Officer and his 4 Grot/Guard mandatory retinue selection the Warboss is a god. I would love to take advantage of the fact that IC's can't be targetted if they aren't the closest, but I can't because the IG HQ doesn't have any such thing as an IC HQ. The only way for the Officer to become a true IC is to get his entire squad killed and fail his below half strength morale checks until he falls off the table. Of course, he can still be picked out by every other thing in CC so giving him anything CC oriented is a waste. Now, I love the ability to field multiple units as the same HQ choice, but that still doesn't make the Officer any better.

I'm not saying the Warboss is the king of the heap, but he certainly isn't at the bottom. A warboss leading a large mob with Iron gob and squig thingy (or whatever the thing is that gives him re-rollable Ld 9) ain't too shabby. That one where he's in super armour with his nobs in super armour (although expensive) is also pretty much impossible to kill.

 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Yeah, but the Ork officer doesn't provide huge Ld boosts to people around him.
It also costs as much with a Junior command squad before buying weapons.

Not to mention the variety of cheap firepower you can squeeze out of that one squad. 4 cheap special weapons can be very very very handy.
   
Made in us
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets




Da Southern New Hampshire!

Posted By Glaive Company CO on 05/11/2006 6:04 PM
I'm not saying the Warboss is the king of the heap, but he certainly isn't at the bottom. A warboss leading a large mob with Iron gob and squig thingy (or whatever the thing is that gives him re-rollable Ld 9) ain't too shabby. That one where he's in super armour with his nobs in super armour (although expensive) is also pretty much impossible to kill.

If you take a closer look at the orks. The Squighound only allows rerolls of leadership in a GRETCHIN mob. And can only be taken by a Slaver. So there rules out one possiblity.
Nobz Bodyguard PAYS for their choppa and sluggas! thats 23 points, not 20. It adds up.
Mega Armor? Are you kidding? You lose an attack! Then each model costs 50 points where normal marine terminators can out-do-them and get a 5+ invulnerable save!
Can anyone say powerfist/power weapon/force weapon?
On the charge if you waaagh youre still Initiative Last on the charge in Mega Armor, and anyone with a powerweapon/fist will kill nobz easy.

Say hypothetically you get the charge with your Boss + 9 nobz all in mega armor. They all live.
So the Boss has 5 attacks, and all the nobz have 4. 9x4 = 36 and Boss has 5.
Nobz: 18 will hit, 15 will wound. Boss: about 3-4 will hit, and 3-4 will wound (Im not doing that math out with fractions). Thats pretty impressive.
Each nob is 50 points. So thats 9x50=450, 60+20+6(iron gob) = 86. Thats 536 pts killing 18 marines in one round of combat assuming they live.

Powerfists will hit them on a 4+, kill them on a 2+, no invulnerable saves unless you actually dropped another 90 points on your 9 nobz to give them an I-5+. 4 attacks will drop 2 nobz.
While a powerweapon will drop 1 to 1 wound. Thats pretty bad for a powerfist. One swing will total 100+ pts. Assuming I did my math right.

If at first you don't succeed, you fail. 
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






South NJ/Philly

Posted By Glaive Company CO on 05/11/2006 6:04 PM
Are you gys forgetting about the Imperial Guard!? Compared to a Heroic Senior Officer and his 4 Grot/Guard mandatory retinue selection the Warboss is a god. I would love to take advantage of the fact that IC's can't be targetted if they aren't the closest, but I can't because the IG HQ doesn't have any such thing as an IC HQ. The only way for the Officer to become a true IC is to get his entire squad killed and fail his below half strength morale checks until he falls off the table. Of course, he can still be picked out by every other thing in CC so giving him anything CC oriented is a waste. Now, I love the ability to field multiple units as the same HQ choice, but that still doesn't make the Officer any better.

I'm not saying the Warboss is the king of the heap, but he certainly isn't at the bottom. A warboss leading a large mob with Iron gob and squig thingy (or whatever the thing is that gives him re-rollable Ld 9) ain't too shabby. That one where he's in super armour with his nobs in super armour (although expensive) is also pretty much impossible to kill.

You'll note that at least when I was talking about him being the worst it was in reference to "CC IC in the game".  Obviously he's going to kick a Tau or IG's HQ IC's ass, but your HQ's aren't supposed to fill the same roll as the Warboss.  They're shooting and support HQ's, and cost less to fullfill their roles.


As pointed out already, he can't get a re-rollable LD9.  Only if he's leading a Grot Mob that has a slaver and squig, which just makes the whole idea pretty useless.  And the Mega Armor thing is so overly expensive and not worth it that there's a reason no one uses it.

Charge it at a Tac Squad w/ a PF Sarge and the Warboss is DEAD.  We can only get a 5+ Inv save at best and are easy to instant kill.  A Warboss in Mega Armor w/ a 5+ Inv costs 100 points even and moves D6" a turn.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Silverdale, WA

The Happy Anarchist: The Ld bubble is great, but having a retinue forced on the officer means he loses any immunity to fire like any other lone IC. Giving his squad loads of weapons is great, but unless you deepstrike them they are a bigger bullet magnet than they would be by just using them for the Ld bubble. And, by deepstriking them the benefeits of the Ld bubble are lost anyways!

Shadow_Strike and Voodo Boyz: Maybe, the guy I play against just uses different tactics, but all I know is the mega armoured nob guard (only reserved for high point games) is unstoppable unless a Demolisher manages to get close enough to them. For regular games a Warboss joined with a unit of Trukkboyz can chew through any tank around. The tiny Ork trukk hides behind terrain then gets a 12" move with the boyz and boss charging out to power klaw any tank. And there's no need to worry about which side he's facing since the worst he'll need is a 4 or more to glance! There's not alot of marines who can punch the front of a Leman Russ to death as well as a Warboss.

I'm just whinning because the new IC's immune to fire if not the closest rule would have the greatest value to an IG officer since there is no more screening. But, the IG officers are the only ones who can never use it!

 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Actually, you may have some luck with Rough Riders if you are using guard. And rapid firing plasma command squads (line command, not the other one).

Drop the truck and pour heavy weapons fire and you will cause instant death each time you wound.

Guard doesn't have much in close combat to beat them. That's kind of the downside of guard though.
   
Made in us
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets




Da Southern New Hampshire!

Yeah, see, they strike last. So if you dont have anything to strike faster/simo then youre done for.
If its a trukk it should be moving 13", and you should be able to chase it down and destroy it before it gets to you!
Its only av 10! If its the only trukk there it should be priority number one!
If he downs a tank kill them. They cant consolidate back into a trukk, they cant consolidate period after killing a vehicle without a WS. Thats one full turn of killing.

If at first you don't succeed, you fail. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Silverdale, WA

My opponent typically (medium point games) runs 3 trukks. Two trukks have 8 boyz with burna and a nob with power klaw. One trukk is purchased for the warboss and is empty. The boss is actually attached to one of the Trukkboyz squads.

Note: Our ruling is that oppen-topped vehicles do NOT have to disclose what exactly (if anything) is embarked as there is no rule that supports that. We also play it that a lone warboss can purchase a trukk.

So, if I was going to use my rough riders to attack a Trukk (I think that's what you're suggesting) I only have a 2/3 chance of even attacking a truck with anything in it. And of course, I need to roll 6's to hit it anyways! I tried it once, and failed to score any hits (thus, wasting my lances) before the riders were mercilessly cut down. Nedless to say, I'll never do that again. Multi-lasers and inferno cannons are my preffered weapon against trukks, but the things are so small that it is rare to catch one in the open. Occasionally, I will get a solid hit with an ordnance shot and get the coveted "6" on the damage table, but really ordnance is reserved for any mobs marching down the field.

With that, I'd like to end this de-railing of the thread! My record against orks is actually very good. I really don't have anything to complain about. I guess I've just always felt that the whole forced retinue thing really sucks for my officers and that MY HQ is the worst. I suppose every army has it's gripes. I have gripes about my Tau and Blood Angels and there are a ton of people who think they are overpowered. So, I appoligize for throwing my 2 cents in when I have no business posting in this thread! Sorry!

 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




You charged a trukk with Rough Riders?

Umm. Okay. Guess we are done with that.


Yeah, the Warboss is not cost effective. Out of curiosity, if the Warboss could take a power weapon, for say, 10 points, would that make all the difference?
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






South NJ/Philly

Posted By The Happy Anarchist on 05/15/2006 10:47 AM
You charged a trukk with Rough Riders?

Umm. Okay. Guess we are done with that.


Yeah, the Warboss is not cost effective. Out of curiosity, if the Warboss could take a power weapon, for say, 10 points, would that make all the difference?

Yes, in fact it would make ALL the difference.

The Feral Warboss is simply awesome, just because he can take a Burna and thus have a Power Weapon in CC, though he loses the +1 for having 2CCW's for doing so. 

At that point you WANT to have him in a mob and Waaagh on the charge to hit with something like 6 (if mounted on Super Cyboar) WS5 S5 I8 Power Weapon Attacks on the charge.  Amazing what not being tied to I1 can do for a character, eh?

This is why I said that KoS Boss's on Bikes and Feral Warbosses are actually decent because they have factors that can make them very useful contributors to the army, much like say a Marine IC.
   
Made in de
Dominating Dominatrix






Piercing the heavens

...but Chpaz are orky.

fluff playing...anyone?
   
 
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