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2015/11/18 20:16:52
Subject: What army is best for a small number of units and a game under an hour?
I know I've explained this before, but I only have about an hour to play during the week after work. So, I'm looking for a 40K army that would be very quick to set up (few models), could finish, and pack up all in under an hour. Not a fan of Chaos, but I'm all for Order and Destruction. And, I'd really rather not have an army of Imperial Knights. I don't think I'd find many people to play against with an army of IKs. Also, to keep the game moving faster, I'd like to stay away from Psyker-power centric armies.
With AoS, you can do this easily. But, I get the feeling from the players at my local GW shop, they only want to play formations. I already have 3000 points in Dark Angels, and I was considering going with just a Hammer of Caliban formation. But, not only is that expensive (75 + 60 + 60 + 60 + 45 = $300 just for that one formation), but I'm not sure say... a Crusader and three Whirlwinds could hold up against other armies. While I'm not a competitive player, a few wins here and there would be nice.
tl;dr - Want to put together a 40K army that is made up of few units, little to no Psykers, not all Imperial Knights, no Chaos, Order and Destruction are fine, and that can be set up, a game completed, and packed up all within an hour.
Any help appreciated.
Thanks
SG
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/18 20:17:58
40K - T'au Empire
Kill Team - T'au Empire, Death Guard
Warhammer Underworlds - Garrek’s Reavers
*** I only play for fun. I do not play competitively. ***
2015/11/19 02:57:48
Subject: What army is best for a small number of units and a game under an hour?
I'm not sure that there really is an army that fits all that. Grey Knghts fit on the few model count, but they're all Psykers. Other than that most armies miss on one or both marks besides IK's.
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Space Marine flyers are shaped for the greatest possible air resistance so that the air may never defeat the SPACE MARINES!
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum
2015/11/19 04:25:03
Subject: What army is best for a small number of units and a game under an hour?
I think your solution is to play very low points, with an opponent who knows the rules in general and of their army really well while you also know them well. And someone who will set up everything for you aside from your units and put everything up. With the restrictions you placed, I simply don't think there is an army out there that meets your criteria.
GK fit everything but your "no psykers" bit. I don't think anyone else comes close to that expensive points wise, and their powers are crucial for their points value.
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2015/11/19 04:28:19
Subject: Re:What army is best for a small number of units and a game under an hour?
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2015/11/19 04:30:28
Subject: What army is best for a small number of units and a game under an hour?
Play 500pts games? If you and your opponent are good at time keeping and don't get too bogged down you should be fine...
Army wise if you already have DA then play Deathwing? No reason to take a psyker of you don't want too... you'll have about 12 models on the table, bang quick game!
You can't. Both players have to play a fast game and really go for it and 40k isn't really build for extreme low point lv's to make an interesting 1 hour game possible. Even if you would play a single model army. you could still run into those slow playing tau who like to jump back every fething suit or a incompetent msu player who has to start thinking again with every single unit. The hour could be over in the first turn of your opponent
To play a fast game you both need to go for it.
things both players have to do to fasten up the game. -Don't think in your own turn think in the opponents turn. -NEVER argue about rules -Don't move and measure blobs model by model -Don't play armies or units that essentially ad an other phase. Such as psykers, IG commands, Tau jumping etc. -Avoid rules that introduce extra interaction such as intercept or deniy rolls.
This will not get you in the one hour range but it will get you down to 2-3 hours for reasonable sized games.
Games of 1 hour and normal point levels give you 5 minute turns and require more extreme measures Solutions: 1,Skip the whole idea mention that you want to play a fast 1 hour kill team game to your opponent. Note that kill team battles could still take longer then 1 hour. 2, Use chess clocks and try to find an opponent who likes the challenge of ultra fast 40k. This is not as casual as it seems. 3, Both play extreme low unit count armies such as armies of knights , assasins or tyranid monsters. Terminator armies might not cut it.
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2015/11/19 09:15:40
Inactive, user. New profile might pop up in a while
2015/11/19 11:28:26
Subject: What army is best for a small number of units and a game under an hour?
Pretty much any army can do this. Just keep your points low. After you get used to the rules, you can quickly fly through a 1000 point game or so. In fact, some of the underdog armies shine at lower points.
2015/11/19 16:12:23
Subject: Re:What army is best for a small number of units and a game under an hour?
I had a feeling this was going to be the case. I talked to the manager of my local GW shop about this last night. He mentioned the entire "just going for it" mentality. Don't hold back. Just go straight at the opponent and face off.
While I don't want to drop the $300 on it (especially right now while the Whirlwinds are sold out), it seems like the Hammer of Caliban might not be a bad idea.
1 x Techmarine + Servitors
1 x Land Raider Crusader
3 x Whirlwind
That's a beast of a formation at 540 points. And, it's either going to win or lose. Either my tank based army will decimate the other player, or they will be ready for tanks and tear me to shreds. But, it shouldn't take long, and there are so very few models.
The problem that gets me is the cost (monetarily, not points)... $300 in models that probably wouldn't ever be included in say a full 1500 point DA army.
Inside the spoiler tags, I'm going to put the reason i want to build this army. At this point, the people who just want to read and post recommendations (which I greatly appreciate) can skip the next part. For the others, feel free to read on.
Spoiler:
So, I work an 8-5 job M-F. GW is on the way home, and the only FLGS that plays Warhammer in town is a long way out of the way on my way home. The earliest I can reliably get there during the week is 5:30pm, and my GW Shop has the following hours:
I have a feeling that most of you are already picking up on my dilemma here. When I first started going to GW, they were closed Sun and Mon and open 12-8 (giving us all an extra hour) Tues - Sat. So, we had a little more breathing room time-wise. Even with that said, I still was going to have to put the hour time limit on myself during the week as I have things I need to get done when I get home like laundry, getting some exercise in, etc... normal chores of an adult. So, I was going to have to keep it very short on the weekdays and play longer on the weekends.
Now, we do have the opportunity to play in Apoc games every other weekend (as long as there are enough people to play), and I definitely intend to play my Nids when I can squeeze them in without going over the point cap for each "Grand Alliance" as they are referred to in AoS. But, one of the main reasons I wanted to get into Warhammer in general was so that I could play not only on the weekend but during the week as well... and socialize with people face to face rather than onlione. That would be difficult with MTG (my old hobby) because of the difference in formats played each night during the week. And, if I wanted to stay at home, I could have just sold all my physical MTG cards and played MTG Online. But, I wanted the face to face social interaction. I haven't talked to or become friends with every single 40K player at this store, but from what I've seen at least, they aren't really big into low point games, turn limits, or unbound armies. The exception being special nights... like the late night my GW store had on Halloween where we were planning on playing Kill Team games. 200 points, very fast. That didn't end up happening, though, I don't think. But, people didn't mind for that one night.
So, all that said, here's what my end goal is. I have enough room in the backpack that I carry my work notebook into work with to fit a GW Skirmish Case. It doesn't have a lot of room for big models at all. A Land Raider of any kind definitely wouldn't fit in there, but I know the manager wouldn't mind letting me leave it in the display case (he seems to think I'm a good painter though I don't necessarily agree). I want to have both a 40K army as well as an AoS army in this Skirmish case so that I can play either depending on who is there. I know I can fit three Rhino bodies and a Techmarine with Servitors into either foam tray. And, I can get a good amount of my Stormcast Eternals into the other giving me the ability to play either type of game. That is my main goal. To fit a 40K army and an AoS army into a Skirmish case for a game that could last approximately an hour.
If anyone has any other suggestions, please let me know.
Thanks
SG
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/11/19 16:20:35
40K - T'au Empire
Kill Team - T'au Empire, Death Guard
Warhammer Underworlds - Garrek’s Reavers
*** I only play for fun. I do not play competitively. ***
2015/11/19 16:25:31
Subject: What army is best for a small number of units and a game under an hour?
My advice: never listen to a salesperson who is giving you the advise to buy one of the most expensive things he has for sale. That formation is no fun to play or play against in low point games and it is a lie that you can play a 1k game versus a random player with a normal army and a normal mind set in 1 hour. The "just going for it" mentality. is just the store owner is just trying to sell the box to you. That is his job, he is getting paid to try to sell you the box.
If you want to start with 40k but you don't have the time to play a full scale battle at the store try to find a club or an other place to play. You might not be the only person who actually has a job and plays 40k ( you need a job to pay for those mini's you know) . Also try to start small, don't buy lage amounts of models at once.
Automatically Appended Next Post: If you do want to play there and play fast low point games try to play kill team, bringing a landraider to a ~500 point game isn't much of a game.
Automatically Appended Next Post: An other thing to consider might be vassal. Its not the same I know but you could play some games online if you would like to play more.
But the real issue with that is that you and your opponents would not want to do that all the time. It is fun for a few games, but after a month or two I would want to play the real thing. And the sales person knows this all to well.
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2015/11/19 16:48:40
Subject: What army is best for a small number of units and a game under an hour?
A Tau Crisis Suit based army is actually ideal. Properly played, you eliminate the Assault Phase almost entirely. Yes, you get to do your assault jumps, but your opponent will likely never be in range to make a successful assault. I play Tau and I don't remember the last time I actually had a battlesuit participate in an assault. A combination of targeting fast units and better than average Overwatch capability can cripple an opponent's ability to launch a charge.
I know one poster above commented that you want to avoid units that "add" an extra phase and used Tau thrust moves as an example. I would generally agree, but in the case of Tau remember that the thrust moves also mean that nothing else is happening in the Assault phase.
An Astra Militarum tank heavy army might also work. You can take a Tank Commander and a bunch of Leman Russ Battle Tanks if you want. I don't know all of their Formations, but I know a couple are Tank heavy.
Automatically Appended Next Post: For a snarky and not even remotely fun game for anyone, try this as a 500 point list...
1 Chaos Sorcer Lord
2 no frills Cultist Units
2 Helturkies
Comes out to 500 points exactly. Someone brought that to a 500 point beginner tournament at a local store and was asked to leave. His plan was to steamroll the new players and take the prize.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/19 16:50:23
Check out my website. Editorials! Tutorials! Fun Times To Be Had! - kriswallminis.com
OK, there's a lot here to respond to here. I hope I don't miss anything. First of all, thank you for all of the advice.
oldzoggy wrote:My advice: never listen to a salesperson who is giving you the advise to buy one of the most expensive things he has for sale. That formation is no fun to play or play against in low point games and it is a lie that you can play a 1k game versus a random player with a normal army and a normal mind set in 1 hour. The "just going for it" mentality. is just the store owner is just trying to sell the box to you. That is his job, he is getting paid to try to sell you the box.
Normally, I would agree. This store manager isn't the same as others I've come across at other retail locations. Yes, his job is to sell. That much is obvious, but at the same time, I'm a fairly regular customer who has spent... well, I don't even want to consider adding it all up as I'm afraid of how much it'd be... almost entirely at his store. So, he knows when I come in there just to buy one pot of paint, that's all I need. And, he doesn't pressure me to buy anything else. I mentioned this idea to him, and he agreed with the "just go for it" point of view... not by trying to show me models that would be good for doing that. But, instead, he used some index cards that just happened to be laying out on one of the tables to show me how he runs his Ork army. He knows I don't play Orks and that I don't have any interest in playing Orks. So, it was a suggestion in tactics not an attempt to sell something to me in this case.
oldzoggy wrote:Also try to start small, don't buy lage amounts of models at once.
That may have been good advice at one time, but unfortunately, that ship sailed probably 8 to 9 months ago. I have 3000 points worth of Dark Angels, 1500 points of Swarmy Nids (including 100 gaunts/gants). With the exception of a few unique DA characters, about 20 gaunts/gants and my Nid MCs, everything is also fully painted.
oldzoggy wrote:If you do want to play there and play fast low point games try to play kill team, bringing a landraider to a ~500 point game isn't much of a game.
The people at my local shop are not against kill team at all. They are more than willing to play. But, they aren't going to come and want to just play that. We had a late night at the shop on Halloween where we were supposed to play Kill Team, but I don't think it ever ended up happening. Either way, myself and several other people had their kill team armies ready. But, honestly, I think that was the first time most people that play at that store had heard of Kill Team (I know it was the first time I'd heard of it).
Capt. Camping wrote:You can try to play 40K in one hour you could try One page 40K rules. One HQ and two squads.
I don't think the manager there would mind a slightly changed 40K ruleset for changing the way things are played. That said, according to him, his GM is not the kind of person who wants the non-GW supported game types being played often if at all. The GM would much prefer (meaning the manager has to) every game that's played in the store to be in an in-print book that is sold by GW or one of its subsidiaries/associates (Black Library, Forge World).
Kriswall wrote:A Tau Crisis Suit based army is actually ideal.
I actually spent a good amount of time looking into the store's copy of the Tau Codex yesterday just to see if they have any formations that could be bought/tried fairly inexpensively. I think there is one $110 box out right now that could make up a CAD. But, for the most part, investing much more than that in an army that is meant only for short games is something I really don't want to do. That's why I've spent well over $300 on Nids (because they models I have make up formations in both regular 7th Edition as well as Apoc).
Kriswall wrote:An Astra Militarum tank heavy army might also work. You can take a Tank Commander and a bunch of Leman Russ Battle Tanks if you want. I don't know all of their Formations, but I know a couple are Tank heavy.
I don't know very much about Astra Militarum to be completely honest, but that said, this kind of detachment/formation sounds very similar to the Hammer of Caliban that could (in a large, large scale battle) compliment my already existing 3000 point DA army. That would be one of the reasons I'd be a little hesitant to look into something like that.
SG
40K - T'au Empire
Kill Team - T'au Empire, Death Guard
Warhammer Underworlds - Garrek’s Reavers
*** I only play for fun. I do not play competitively. ***
2015/11/19 18:19:37
Subject: What army is best for a small number of units and a game under an hour?
It's not really about the army, it's about who you play. Our guys have a lot of different armies but we can usually manage games taking 1-1,5 hours if we keep points low (750 max) and just roll on instead of argue about rules. Six guys, three tables - we might not manage to play against everyone but three matches for an evening isn't bad either. If you leave out psykers and other extras you could be pretty quick about it.
Or try the Metal (up yours) event we had for our yearly tournament. Only 500 points, Unbound - but it had to be 75% spent on vehicles and only one unit without AV. There's few units, they quickly become fewer and there's little chance anyone brings anything to slow the game down.
2015/11/19 18:58:30
Subject: What army is best for a small number of units and a game under an hour?
How is this a short game? I've played this matchup before and it seemed to take the normal length of time, a couple hours.
You need to turn on your sarcasm detector.
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Crimson Devil wrote: 7th edition 40k is a lot like BDSM these days. Only play with people you know and develop a safe word for when things get too intense. And It doesn't hurt to be a sadist or masochist as well.
xSoulgrinderx wrote: No. but jink is cover and if the barrage its center they wont be getting cover
2015/11/19 19:43:38
Subject: What army is best for a small number of units and a game under an hour?
Orks are rarely a short game. Maybe with an orthodox (and bad) list like dread mob.
It's hard to play 40k in an under an hour. My players and I know the rules pretty well and it generally takes 2 hours for a normal (1850) point game.
I would encourage the specialist games. They usually last an hour, with games eventually being 20 minutes once you guys have the rules down and know each other's models well. They are a lot of fun and really cheap.
2015/11/20 14:48:10
Subject: What army is best for a small number of units and a game under an hour?
How is this a short game? I've played this matchup before and it seemed to take the normal length of time, a couple hours.
You need to turn on your sarcasm detector.
I guess so, but it wasn't exactly a long game either. I would say for short games under an hour you need to make sure you know all of the rules for your units on the top of your head. Looking up rules can really slow the game down.
Also picking an army that skip certain phases of the game can make it faster. No psykers is an easy one.
And dont put mixed models in units. aside from maybe one guy. So running a unit with a character in it with a different armor save, a different close combat weapon, a sergeant with a different close combat weapon and a secondary guy with a special weapon can slow down the assault phase. Its easier to just pick up the handful of dice for the whole unit and roll it all at once.
Surprisingly, while they are not the lowest model count, necrons can be very fast to play.
My reasoning is that necrons have no special upgrades or wargear to make the shooting, or close combat phase very complicated. There are no powerfist upgrades, there are no meltagun upgrades. If you avoid say, relics, and when a unit can take upgrades, they all take the same upgrades, it can be a quick army.
No psychic phase, very monotone shooting. The only thing that might make the game long is that necrons don't really die.
4500 
bag!"
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