All Land Speeder army viable? (Dark Angels)

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**MechaEmperor7000**

I was looking at the Ravenwing Detachment and formations and I realized that you can field an all-Land Speeder army (taking Sableclaw as the HQ).

How viable is this? I want to be restricted to only land speeders, but the big floating castles would count too. Aside from having paper armor, I think there's enough weapons to handle most situations (Typhoon missiles for anti-tank and ass-cans/flamers for hordes) and even the armor might be mitigated if I can use a Darkshroud to give them a better cover save. The main problem I can see is Sableclaw not being able to do much for the points invested (I think he's roughly 4 times the cost of a normal speeder but the damage output is nowhere near as much).

**StevetheDestroyeOfWorlds**

with darkshrouds and lots and lots of typhoon's you could deal with almost any threat

**DirtyDeeds**

StevetheDestroyeOfWorlds wrote:
with darkshrouds and lots and lots of typhoon's you could deal with almost any threat

Until you play against a Tau player, then you'll be a sad panda.

**StevetheDestroyeOfWorlds**

DirtyDeeds wrote:
StevetheDestroyeOfWorlds wrote:
with darkshrouds and lots and lots of typhoon's you could deal with almost any threat

Until you play against a Tau player, then you'll be a sad panda.

You'll always be a sad panda playing against Tau

**Crazyterran**

Most themed armies usually have their bane.

**MechaEmperor7000**

DirtyDeeds wrote:
StevetheDestroyeOfWorlds wrote:
with darkshrouds and lots and lots of typhoon's you could deal with almost any threat

Until you play against a Tau player, then you'll be a sad panda.

Everyone other than Eldar is a sad panda with the Tau.

**TheManWithNoPlan**

While it won't be competitive (well, perhaps in lighter environments), it could certainly be usable in games as a competent force judging from the rules.

**Crazy Jay**

Aside from the Ravenwing Strike Force, you can also take Ravenwing support Squadrons (all landspeeders) to group some into squadrons and to gain various bonuses. I think it would work in a mostly light hearted meta where rule of cool reigns supreme.

**Vector Strike**

Go minimal CAD (Sabreclaw, 2x Scouts with LLS) and grablots of Ravenwing Support Squadrons?=

**MechaEmperor7000**

I don't particularly care about winning, more about getting to play and fun interactions, so top-tier competitiveness isn't an issue. I just want to hold my own till the very end and maybe draw it out to a pyrrhic victory for the other guy instead.

In terms of composition, should I just go all typhoons and Darkshrouds (with the obligitory Sableclaw) or should some of them have HBs or Assault Cannons?

@ Vector Strike: One of the detachments from the book lets me field only FA choices with Sammael. I don't particularly care about ObSec anyways.

**Nevelon**

If you are looking to make a balanced army (even a strongly themed one) you should have an answer for all different problems. TML Speeders are decent jack of all trades units, but still struggle against some thing, heavy armor being one of them. I’d be sure to include some MMs, just in case you need to crack open something tough.

**Clang**

Agreed, to avoid being a 'one trick pony' army, you need to vary the weaponry, so that you can deal with (or at least put up a decent fight against) all likely opponents - hordes, heavy infantry, mech infantry, shooty infantry, heavy armour, etc etc. So totally agree that some MMs would be useful.

Can you take Speeder Storms? The ability to transport scouts could be useful, and also fits your fluff.

**MechaEmperor7000**

For the Typhoons, should I keep the default HB or upgrade it to a Melta? The HB would match the range but the Melta would match the strength.

EDIT: Unfortunately I don't see Land Speeder Storms in the Dark Angels book, so they're not an option unless I missed them.

**ZergSmasher**

Clang wrote:
Can you take Speeder Storms? The ability to transport scouts could be useful, and also fits your fluff.

Unfortunately, no LSS for us DA players, even though it makes no sense for us not to have them (same could be said about many nice SM things).

As for the idea of an all-speeder army, I would never do it on the basis of having to assemble all those speeders (I love speeders, but hate putting the damn things together). Its an interesting idea, though. You could probably get lots of them into an 1850 list.

**Vector Strike**

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
For the Typhoons, should I keep the default HB or upgrade it to a Melta? The HB would match the range but the Melta would match the strength.

EDIT: Unfortunately I don't see Land Speeder Storms in the Dark Angels book, so they're not an option unless I missed them.

HB. Melta is only worth if you go double it

**WarbossDakka**

Just as an fyi, its your funeral if you want to build and paint that many speeders.

I don't remember if speeders have been updated recently, but the one time I did it was a painful experience.

**casvalremdeikun**

WarbossDakka wrote:
Just as an fyi, its your funeral if you want to build and paint that many speeders.

I don't remember if speeders have been updated recently, but the one time I did it was a painful experience.

The ~~broken~~improved Jink rules paired with the Ravenwing rule and the Dark Shroud make Speeders more durable than they probably should be. But when you have 3+ rerollable Jink, you are going to be tough to kill for anything other than Tau.

**Nevelon**

One thing that might help a speeder army on the table is a few flyers. Thematically, they work well with the concept, and can add some more firepower to the mix. Last I checked the DA flyers weren’t all that, but some of the ones from FW should work nicely.

I’d given some thought to how I’d put together a all-speeder army with my collection. But as an Ultramarine player, it would include my LSS, Strormtalon and Stormraven. So not pure-speeder, but crazy fast and not touching the ground.

**casvalremdeikun**

The Dark Talon is pretty awesome. Having Strength D is always a plus, even if it isn't all the time. But it has no AA due to only have Hurricane Bolters in addition to the Rift Cannon. The Nephilim isn't as bad as it once was with Missile Lock and better Missiles. The cannon is kinda crap on it though.

**Deschenus Maximus**

If I were to do this, I'd just run several RW Support Squadron formations. Go MM/AssCan on the speeders and take Dark Shrouds for 4+ cover win.

**Crazy Jay**

I think it would be smart to mix in at least 1 Ravenwing Support Squadron with a LS Vengence so that you can have some anti deepstrike punch. I'm also a big fan of plasma too so I love mine.

**Deschenus Maximus**

Crazy Jay wrote:
I think it would be smart to mix in at least 1 Ravenwing Support Squadron with a LS Vengence so that you can have some anti deepstrike punch. I'm also a big fan of plasma too so I love mine.

If your opponent has any deepstrikers, that RSS will be dead long before they get to intercept.

**MechaEmperor7000**

I agree with Deschenus, the Darkshroud's cover ability is a lot more valuable to me than the plasma cannon battery. Especially since that formation is a huge-ass unit of at least 4 lightly armored skimmers, they would be drawing all the bolter fire if I didn't have something to protect them.

And I've heard about the Speeder's infamously hard construction, but I will at least make Sableclaw if I can and see how it goes. As it stands though it's gonna take at least 15 or so speeders.

**PanzerLeader**

Actually, this could be a sneaky good list. I've been playing around in Army builder and 1100 points gets you Sableclaw, 2x 2 landspeeders with double multi-meltas, and 2 Support Squadrons with 3 typhoons and a darkshroud each. That's a lot of stand off range and you can redeploy 30" in a turn to respond to assault armies. Its worth a try for sure.

Edit: I'd also look at including a Landspeeder Vengenance with the Battle of Keylek legacy of glory for ignore cover.

**MechaEmperor7000**

When I was building my list, you could bump both of those MM speeder squadrons up to 3 and be at 1260 points. While 10 points over (and thus require some shaving), it's more or less at the sweet spot for a 1250 point army and plenty of room to add stuff to make for a 1500 point list.

EDIT: it's basically marines pretending they're Dark Eldar. With bigger guns.

**Deschenus Maximus**

I wouldn't bother too much with either double MM speeders or Typhoons. MM/AssCan is just overall better. There's nothing they can't tackle, and there's nothing they'll ever be mostly useless against.

**JusticeParty**

I actually used a pure RW speeder list against a friend on Vassal the other day. While it was a friendly game, I found abusing the Support Squadron formation to be very powerful.

RWSS
-Sammael, sableclaw
-5x mm/hf speeders
-Vengeance

2x Support Squadron
-4x hb/asscan speeders
-darkshroud, asscan

Support Squadron
-5x hb/tml speeders
-darkshroud

Comes out at 1850. The support squadrons put out a stupid amount of firepower. Anything they touch melts. There aren't many units they can't handle. The rest of the speeders just harassed, took heat off the support squadrons, and forced my opponent to make some serious target priority decisions.

It was only one game (against a DE/harly list), but I think mass speeders can be effective against most lists.

**MechaEmperor7000**

I'm hesitant to mix AssCans with MMs because the two weapons fulfill different roles and, as far as I know, they can't fire at different targets.

**NorseSig**

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
I'm hesitant to mix AssCans with MMs because the two weapons fulfill different roles and, as far as I know, they can't fire at different targets.

I believe the thought process here is that the MM has the same max range as the AssCans. Combined with their high str low ap they can wound the same targets the Asscans can. In short you care less about the melta and more about the ability to tack on an extra wound.

I could be wrong, but I think that is what the thought process on that is.

On a side note, this would be a FUN list to play against. It isn't what you typically see. I like that. No idea how competitive it would be, but I imagine with the dark angels' rules it would be pretty good. I still think it is silly DA don't have LSS.

**MechaEmperor7000**

The pros of it is that the Speeders have enough speed to outrun Assault Armies (so assault isn't an issue) and have a variety of weapons to handle just about any situation. However they are extremely fragile and outside of the Darkshroud they don't have any sort of external defense that other vehicle heavy armies have. I feel like that would be the main drawback, but their low cost means maybe I can not see them as fragile vehicles, but more as more mobile Vanguards with Relentless Heavy Weapons. Maybe that sort of thinking will help.