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Public Service Announcement

Hello friends!

This missive is to let you know that for the time being, my 5 P&M blogs (Mantis Warriors, Bad Moon Orks, AdMech, Halloween themed Chaos and 30k EC) will have all their updates appearing on a single blog (my “Rebuilding the Mantis Warriors” blog… which will get a new name). Why? With my interests so scattered across multiple armies and terrain & the fact that I’m just not painting at the hundreds of figures a year rate that I used to… I’m not making enough quality posts to keep 5 different blogs going. I’ve got a few die-hard friends and supporters that still post… but not enough to build or maintain the community that has always been the strongpoint of my threads in the past.

If my circumstances change and I start painting enough to warrant re-opening one of the specialist threads, I’ll do so... they aren’t closed, just inactive. In the meantime, as of today (Feb 11th, 2017) I’ll be making all of my P&M posts (for all armies) on what has always been my “home” on DakkaDakka, my Mantis Warrior thread. I hope you’ll join me there for the latest updates!
Here’s the link: Gitsplitta's Unified Painting Theory

Thanks!
Gits

Just launching a new P&M blog to follow my exploits making an EC 30k army.



The army will start simply, getting ready for a 30k Zone Mortalis game at Adepticon. My son (Thing 1) will be the one playing this army so I want to make it both pretty and reasonably competitive (at least good enough that he can enjoy himself). I must admit that I'm struggling with the list a bit. Not that I have a lot of options at 500 pts, add to that the fact that I've never played either ZM or 30k and I find myself even less confident about my build than usual.

Here's what I'm looking at... very simple list.

HQ: Centurion -
TP: 10 Tacticals - vexillum, Sgt w/ power sword, artificer armor, MB
EL: 5 Terminators - heavy plasma, power fist, axe, maul & TH, Sgt - not sure... P-sword? Can he take a phoenix spear?

Once I have the war gear nailed down on the two squads, I'll sort out the centurion. I was going to make him an apothecary for the FNP, but I don't think that'll give me enough points left over to kit him out for the inevitable challenges. I'm really struggling with how to equip the characters. Normally I'd just give them the best weapon... PFs or THs... but in challenges I think they're +1 initiative, which would be wasted with a slow weapon.

Any advice from knowledgeable 30k players would be most welcome.


Beyond this I currently have a Siccaran and a number of outriders, a flyer (not the good one) and some random Heresy characters. I have a unit of Palatine Blades, an EC Contemptor Dread and Fulgrim on order. Of course I'm going to have to get more troops to field a legal list... but I thought ordering some really wiz-bang units from the get-go might help get me motivated. I also have a number of original MK-1 vehicles (rhino variants and a land raider) that I can press into service if need be.


Other than list building, I went through all the terminators and marines last night, clipped them off their sprues and sorted them out to see what I could actually make. I'll start the process tonight of cleaning them up and getting the assembled. I'll probably start with the tactical marines as they're pretty straight forward.

Thanks for stopping by. I hope this will be a fun and interesting project for all of us!


As of 3/27/2016, this is what I've finished... tactical support squad, tactical squad and centurion.

And so it begins again


I'll have my eye on the thread- Can only turn out great.
Looking forward to seeing how you do the ECs! How are you planning to do the purple? I remember you were pitching a number of different ideas a few months back.

Unfortunately I cant offer any support ruleswise- I just paint these days! Haha.

Gits ?
Purple ?

Ok.
I have to follow this.

* grabs a seat *

EC are one of my favourite Legions aesthetically, so consider me subbed.

For the Centurion, have you looked at a Paragon blade? It's pretty pricey (25 points, I think), but you get at-initiative AP2 which, with the fact pretty much every 30k squad can and probably will have Artificer armour on the sarge is pretty big. I'd prioritise that over a Consul upgrade to be honest.

Thanks guys, appreciate the support. I am very much looking forward to painting a new color on marines with a very unique style.

@Paradigm: I'm still trying to sort out the rules between the black book and the red one. I had originally planned on giving him the Paragon blade, but from the rules in the (black) book, I wasn't sure he could have one. I think that would be ideal and very fluffy. Then again... I might just be stupid. Thanks for the suggestion, I'll take anything I can get.

Looking forward to this, EC always being my favourite Traitor Legion. Good luck!

P.S Sicarians are absolute monsters

I have no idea about mechanics of 30k and/or zone moralis, but I do know I enjoy watching you paint.

<pulls up a seat>

My bad, Paragon Blades are not available to Consuls, I was thinking of Charnabal Sabres which just give +1 init and Rending.

Almost wonder if it might be worth finding the points to take a Praetor. You're looking at 100 base, 25 for the blade and 10 for the Arty armour, even more if you want an Iron Halo for the invuln, but at 500 and in ZM he'd be something of a wrecking ball. 5-man squads would be toast against him, even larger ones he could handily take on... All depends on whether you can fit that in and still get some other fun stuff, and how many points you want to put into HQs.

Do you want me to throw together a few different lists for you? Let me know if that would help, and if there's any 'must have' units you want me to fit in.

Subbed! Looking forward to this.

@Paradigm : please do. I must have 1 troop and 1 HQ with no named characters.

I'm curious to see your approach to EC!

So it begins!!!

(Yay.) Looking forward to this Gits. You could always do a Praetor or go with a weaker HQ but, perhaps squeeze a Contemptor in?

i was tempted to an EC army myself because the colours are beautiful, but i decided for Death Guard instead because Fulgrim is such a massive ponse.

 Polonius wrote:
I'm curious to see your approach to EC!

Me 2

LOL!

Love Death Guard too. Tough choice.

Very soon my entire front page of "Threads subscribed to" will be Gits.

But I really like purple cus it goes so nice with green, so lets be having you then!

Ok, here's a selection of lists, I've tried to come up with as many different styles as possible so some are a bit skewed towards one type of unit or another, others are more mixed (though TAC at 500 with HH is practically impossible.

1: Heavy Armour:

Praetor, Artificer Armour, Iron Halo, Paragon Blade
Master of the Legion: Pride of the Legion (allows Termies and Vets as troops)

Cataphractii Terminator Squad, Heavy Flamer, 2 Power Fists, 1 Lightning Claw (on the Sarge)

Legion Dreadnought, Flamestorm Cannon, Heavy Flamer in Power Fist

This list is 100% built with Zone Mortalis in mind, they can take punishement and dish it out at close range. all those Flamers will become Rending and the 2+ armour/Armour Value will be worth its weight in gold as there's not going to be a lot of high-volume shooting or expensive, good AP stuff. It'll also be dead quick to paint, if there's a deadline to work to.



2: Fight and Flight:
Centurion, Plasma Pistol, Artificier Armour, Consul: Moriat (functionally loses Independent Character, gains the ability to keep making additional pistol shots until he misses on BS5)

Legion Tactical Squad, Legion Vexilla, Sergeant with Artifcier Armour, Heavy Chainsword

Legion Seeker Squad, 3x combi-weapons

Basically the opposite of the last list, this one wants to stay out of combat, use the Moriat and Seekers (who get special issue ammo) to take out isolated units while the Tacs take objectives, support the other units and take some hits.


3: Many Men:
Centurion, Power Weapon, Artificer armour

Legion Tactical Squad, Sergeant with Artificer armour, Power Weapon

Legion Tactical Squad, Sergeant with Artificer armour, Heavy Chainsword

Apothecarian Detachment, 2 Apothecaries

This is one of the more skewed lists. You lose out on any real anti-tank, but put down a respectable 23 bodies, and can give both Tactical Squads FNP. Basically, your task with this list is just to tough it out until the end of the game, holding objectives and pushing the enemy back. This does however give you a good starting point for a larger force, you have your Troops choices sorted from the off.

4: Cut Off the Head

Praetor, Artificer Armour, Power Weapon, Melta Bombs
Master of the Legion: Pride of the Legion

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad, 7 men, Flamer, Sarge with Power Weapon and Artificer Armour, Veteran Tactics: Furious Charge

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad, 7 men, Flamer, Sarge with Power Weapon and Artificer Armour, Veteran Tactics: Furious Charge

Basically, you just have 3 'sharp' close combat units here, get in close, slice and burn. Again a small force, easily paintable, nice if you prefer PA to TDA and Vet Tac Squads are ace in a full list as well.



Hopefully there's a range of play styles there, something you can get on with. If you like any particular list, I'm happy to work on altering it to better suit you.

Another day another blog? Really? Well if it is the quality I have come to thoroughly enjoy from all your other work I am definitely in all the way. Bring on the Emperors Children and all their creepy perfection.

Looking forward to watching your adventures in 30k Git's.

@Paradigm: I've cut and pasted the restrictions for the ZM game below. The FOC chart didn't copy, but basically it's 1 HQ and 1 Troop compulsory, with 1 HQ, 2 EL, 2 TP, 2 FA and 1 HV being optional. Do all the lists below fit that?

From the Adepticon website:

Forces:
Each participant will bring two army lists, you’ll be using one list in each game, depending on the
Zone Mortalis location. No named characters or Dark Age Relics may be chosen. As this is a 500
point list, no Warlord Traits will be rolled for.

List 1: A single boarding team of 500 pts consisting of a single primary detachment using the
“Combatant” Force Organiza- tion Chart found in Book 1, page 168.

List 2: A single assault team of 500 pts to tackle possibly tricky surface operations (i.e. jump
packs etc.) on Istvaan V itself. Use the “Combatant” Force Organization Chart found in Book 1, page
168

Stratagems:
You may choose 2 pts worth of stratagems from the following list: Breacher Charges, Spearhead
Sentry Gun, Lascutter, Fire- wasp, Traps, Void Hardened Armor, Shock & Awe, Devastation Drone.
Details for these stratagems can be found in Book 1

Yep, they all conform to that. They are, in order:

1 HQ, 1 Troops, 1 Elite

1 HQ, 1 Troops, 1 FA

1 HQ, Troops, Troops, Elite

1 HQ, 2 Troops


Lists 1 and 4 probably best suit the first list type, 2 and 3 the second kind.

Great!

Two questions...

1) What is the advantage of a Cataphractii terminator vs another type?

2) Is a "legion dreadnought" a normal dreadnought, or a contemptor?

Cataphractii grants you Slow and Purposeful in exchange for a 4++ (which since Storm Shields aren't a thing for most Legions, is as tough as you can get in 30k). Legion Dread is just a regular one, to get a Contemptor in there you'd need to find around 50 points from somewhere, so in practice the Iron Halo and Termie upgrades would pretty much have to go (you'd get the HF back on the termies if you downgrade the Paragon Blade to a Power Weapon).

@Paradigm thanks for posting those lists. I have been thinking about getting into 30K but did not know where to start.

These are all very interesting and exciting lists Paradigm, thanks for taking the time to put them together. If I may, I'll give you my thoughts one at a time.

 Paradigm wrote:
Ok, here's a selection of lists, I've tried to come up with as many different styles as possible so some are a bit skewed towards one type of unit or another, others are more mixed (though TAC at 500 with HH is practically impossible.

1: Heavy Armour:

Praetor, Artificer Armour, Iron Halo, Paragon Blade
Master of the Legion: Pride of the Legion (allows Termies and Vets as troops)

Cataphractii Terminator Squad, Heavy Flamer, 2 Power Fists, 1 Lightning Claw (on the Sarge)

Legion Dreadnought, Flamestorm Cannon, Heavy Flamer in Power Fist

This list is 100% built with Zone Mortalis in mind, they can take punishement and dish it out at close range. all those Flamers will become Rending and the 2+ armour/Armour Value will be worth its weight in gold as there's not going to be a lot of high-volume shooting or expensive, good AP stuff. It'll also be dead quick to paint, if there's a deadline to work to.

This list just makes me giggle manically. My only issue with it is being limited to a single, slow-and-purposeful squad for scoring objectives. That could be a real problem depending on the scenarios and whatever ship-board disasters might happen that would interfere with already achingly slow movement.

2: Fight and Flight:
Centurion, Plasma Pistol, Artificier Armour, Consul: Moriat (functionally loses Independent Character, gains the ability to keep making additional pistol shots until he misses on BS5)

Legion Tactical Squad, Legion Vexilla, Sergeant with Artifcier Armour, Heavy Chainsword

Legion Seeker Squad, 3x combi-weapons

Basically the opposite of the last list, this one wants to stay out of combat, use the Moriat and Seekers (who get special issue ammo) to take out isolated units while the Tacs take objectives, support the other units and take some hits.

Same concern as above. The Moriat/Seeker combo seems like it could be pretty darn potent... but it's not a very EC like list. (that's OK at this point)

3: Many Men:
Centurion, Power Weapon, Artificer armour

Legion Tactical Squad, Sergeant with Artificer armour, Power Weapon

Legion Tactical Squad, Sergeant with Artificer armour, Heavy Chainsword

Apothecarian Detachment, 2 Apothecaries

This is one of the more skewed lists. You lose out on any real anti-tank, but put down a respectable 23 bodies, and can give both Tactical Squads FNP. Basically, your task with this list is just to tough it out until the end of the game, holding objectives and pushing the enemy back. This does however give you a good starting point for a larger force, you have your Troops choices sorted from the off.

I like this list just for it's simplicity and ease of use. I think it would be easy for my son to run successfully. But I'm curious... how do they get through locked bulkhead doors? Don't you need MB or something at the least? However, without any real punch it might not be all that fun for him to play. I *do* however, have two legion Apothecaries that I'm just dying to paint.

4: Cut Off the Head

Praetor, Artificer Armour, Power Weapon, Melta Bombs
Master of the Legion: Pride of the Legion

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad, 7 men, Flamer, Sarge with Power Weapon and Artificer Armour, Veteran Tactics: Furious Charge

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad, 7 men, Flamer, Sarge with Power Weapon and Artificer Armour, Veteran Tactics: Furious Charge

Basically, you just have 3 'sharp' close combat units here, get in close, slice and burn. Again a small force, easily paintable, nice if you prefer PA to TDA and Vet Tac Squads are ace in a full list as well.

I'm torn on this list. I like it... should be easy to run and is the fluffiest of the four. I'm worried though that 2 squads of 7 marines just won't have the oomph to enforce their will on the battlefield. Also there's the closed bulkhead issue (if there is an issue).

Hopefully there's a range of play styles there, something you can get on with. If you like any particular list, I'm happy to work on altering it to better suit you.

They're a fantastic starting point. I'd be very interested in any thoughts you might have on my comments.

Yorkright wrote:
@Paradigm thanks for posting those lists. I have been thinking about getting into 30K but did not know where to start.

No problem! I have the books handy and a lot of spare time, so feel free to PM me if you want some pointers or advice on starting or lists (for a certain Legion or just generally) and I'll help you out.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Gits:

Glad they were of some help.

The Bulkheads issue on lists 3 and 4 is one I must admit I didn't consider, it's been a while since I've played/looked at the specifics for Zone Mortalis... For 4, if you can find 10 points somewhere you could either swap the Flamers for Meltas, or keep the Flamers and take Melta Bombs on each Sarge. 3 could similarly take Meltabombs by losing the Heavy Chainsword and 5 points from somewhere else. If you like the idea of the FNP squads, but want a bit more punch, the second Tac squad could be swapped for some veterans, Seekers or maybe even a Tactical Support Squad (all Specials) depending on points.

Mobility would be a problem with the first list, yeah, (though remember, SnP these days just means you can't run/overwatch, rather than always counting as in difficult terrain). Are you not playing 7th rules, so everything would be scoring? Not sure how HH and 7th interact in that regard, I've been playing it as per 7th as I've been facing 40k forces. Best check that one with the organisers or see if they've FAQed it.

That any help?

Yes, tremendously. I'll fiddle with things again tonight and see if I can't come up with a couple of options for you to consider.

Thanks again!

Cool. If you haven't already, download the HH database for Battlescribe, it's much easier than flicking back and forth through the massive books, and it has all the updates in that the earlier books don't.

I'll have to try that. I've tried using Army Builder but their HH files are all screwed up.

Can't help with list advice I'm afraid, but very much looking forward to seeing the models !