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2016/02/28 23:20:03
Subject: Matchup Predictor - Give Me 2 Armies and I Will Give Tactics and Predict Who Will Win
Ok, I think this will be a fun exercise. This will also give the viewers insight to how certain armies would work. I will also give limited Tactics and tips with regards to each specific scenario. The more information you can give me, the more specific and accurate my tactics and predictions will be. Use the format:
Points:
Missions:
If there are any specific missions you are looking at. For example, ITC, Nova, ETC, book missions, etc. If no missions are specified, I will assume ITC as that is the prevalent Standard currently. If you have a custom mission, you can specify.
My Army:
You can post your list, or you can say something like this: War Convocation with Blood Angels drop pods and the Culexus. The more detail you can provide, the better.
Opponent's Army:
Either post the list or give a description of the opposing army if you don't know.
For example:
Points: 1850
Missions: ITC
My Army: Tyranids, 5 flyrants, 4 mawlocs, Mucolid troops
I will give you general tactics for Your Army (not for the Opponent's army) and my prediction on who will win in such a matchup.
To be fair, I will only do 1 request per person until all the current day's requests are completed. Then I will go back and do another request from the same person if there are no other requests on the queue from other people.
Also, once per week, if I see a matchup I like here, I may even do a Battle Report on it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/29 00:49:29
Mission
Primary-6 objectives 2 in each deployment zone and 2 in no mans land
Secondary- maelstrom the one where you draw up to three each round.
My army: Militarum Tempestus
Airborne Assault Formation
Valks all have multi rocket pods
Command squad has 4 plasma guns
3x5 man squads with 2 melta guns each
CAD Command squad with 4 hotshot volley guns
2x5 man squads with volley guns
2 tauroxes with missile launchers and twinlinked autocannons. One taurox has camo netting
Opponents list: Space marine Gladius Strike Force
10 razorbacks at least a few with lascannons and some with assault cannons
6 tactical
2 devastator with grav cannons
2 assault squads
3 scout squads
I don't know what else is required for gladius but that is probably also included.
Still fairly new to tempestus so really just looking for some tactical tips for against mechanized infantry.
My Armies:
Orks about 15000-16000 mostly unpainted but slowly being worked on
Militarum Tempestus about 2000 points just built
Inquisition about 2000 points unpainted
Officio Assassinorum 570 unpainted
I dont paint quickly
2016/02/28 23:58:05
Subject: Re:Matchup Predictor - Give me 2 Armies and I will give Tactics and Predict Who Will Win
So, this Saturday, my buddy and I are going to be running the first mission out of the Curse of the Wulfen campaign. If you're not familiar with it, Space Wolf player gets a standard Hammer and Anvil deployment setup, while the Daemon player gets the rest of the board to set up. The Daemon player has to deploy six objectives in his deployment zone. My Wulfen cannot be deployed until I "find" them, by having a model end their Movement phase within 3" of an Objective marker and "searching" it. I roll a D6, and on a 6, all of my Wulfen units deploy from that objective, and can resolve their Shooting and Assault Phases as normal. Additionally, all units on the battlefield gain Shrouded and Run 2d6 (drop the highest). This will be a 2k point game.
My list will be as follows, using a Wolf Claw Strike Force with 2 Ironwolves Greatpacks and a Wulfen Murderpack:
1x Wolf Lord w/ Runic Armour
1 x Wolf Guard Battle Leader (no upgrades)
2 x Long Fangs (3 models, 2 Missile Launchers) in Rhinos (all upgrades)
2 x Blood Claws (10 models, 1 Flamer) in Rhinos (all upgrades)
2 x Blood Claws (5 models, 1 Flamer) in Drop Pods (all upgrades)
2 x Grey Hunters (10 models, 1 Wolf Guard Terminator Pack Leader, 2 Meltaguns) in Drop Pods (all upgrades)
2 x Land Speeders with Assault Cannons and Multi-Meltas
2 x Land Speeders with Assault Cannons and Heavy Flamers
2 x Wulfen (5 models, 2 TH/SS, 2 Frost Claws, 1 Pack Leader, 1 Stormfrag Auto-Launcher)
My opponent will be bringing a pure Daemon force. I can't say for certain what he's going to be taking, except that he must take a Daemon Prince with the Daemon of Nurgle special rule to be his Warlord, per the mission outlines. I would also expect to see at least one winged Bloodthirster (probably packing the D), Flesh Hounds, and Skull Cannons. I would not be surprised to see more Daemon Princes or Greater Daemons. Bloodletters, Plaguebearers, Nurglings, and Pink Horrors might also make an appearance. I would not expect to see any Daemon-summoning unless my opponent brings Khorne Daemonkin for the Blood Tithe.
Personally, I think I'm going to have the advantage here, because I should be able to get to most of the objectives by turn 2 at the latest - and in my experience, the Wulfen are one of the nastiest melee units in the game right now. But if you have any extra insights, I'd be happy to hear them!
Edited for clarity and to fix list derp.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/02/29 00:10:17
DT:80+S++G++M--B--IPw40k11+D+A+++/cWD-R+++T(D)DM+ 8000, mostly painted
14000, all over the place
2016/02/29 00:04:27
Subject: Matchup Predictor - Give me 2 Armies and I will give Tactics and Predict Who Will Win
Mission
Primary-6 objectives 2 in each deployment zone and 2 in no mans land
Secondary- maelstrom the one where you draw up to three each round.
My army: Militarum Tempestus
Airborne Assault Formation
Valks all have multi rocket pods
Command squad has 4 plasma guns
3x5 man squads with 2 melta guns each
CAD Command squad with 4 hotshot volley guns
2x5 man squads with volley guns
2 tauroxes with missile launchers and twinlinked autocannons. One taurox has camo netting
Opponents list: Space marine Gladius Strike Force
10 razorbacks at least a few with lascannons and some with assault cannons
6 tactical
2 devastator with grav cannons
2 assault squads
3 scout squads
I don't know what else is required for gladius but that is probably also included.
Still fairly new to tempestus so really just looking for some tactical tips for against mechanized infantry.
This will be a tough matchup for your Tempestus. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe your Tempestus are ObSec, no? But even if they were, his ObSec units outnumber yours and you guys are playing objectives both for the Primary and the Secondary. Also, you are running flyers which won't really land to claim objectives, at least not until the end of the game. His mobile, metallic boxes protect his troops from the majority of your anti-infantry firepower and your anti-tank isn't very strong.
Tips/Tactics:
Try to go 2nd. You CANNOT let him have the final say on an Objectives-based mission. I would go with a Denial strategy. Hide your units initially and don't give him any easy targets. Then wait for your reserves to come in and then hit him hard (hope you have a way to control your reserves). Sacrifice your melta-squads to blow up his tanks if necessary. Heck, go all out on the turn your reserves come in and maximize on taking out his vehicles. Then, your anti-infantry weaponry will have plenty of targets.
Be prepared to lose on the Maelstrom mission. Gladius Battle Company is just too good in that. Try to beat him on the Primary (hence, going 2nd) and the Bonus objectives. If you can get First Blood, then you will have the advantage with the strategy and a chance to win. Otherwise, you are fighting an uphill battle.
So, this Saturday, my buddy and I are going to be running the first mission out of the Curse of the Wulfen campaign. If you're not familiar with it, Space Wolf player gets a standard Hammer and Anvil deployment setup, while the Daemon player gets the rest of the board to set up. The Daemon player has to deploy six objectives in his deployment zone. My Wulfen cannot be deployed until I "find" them, by having a model end their Movement phase within 3" of an Objective marker and "searching" it. I roll a D6, and on a 6, all of my Wulfen units deploy from that objective, and can resolve their Shooting and Assault Phases as normal. Additionally, all units on the battlefield gain Shrouded and Run 2d6 (drop the highest). This will be a 2k point game.
My list will be as follows, using a Wolf Claw Strike Force with 2 Ironwolves Greatpacks and a Wulfen Murderpack:
1x Wolf Lord w/ Runic Armour
1 x Wolf Guard Battle Leader (no upgrades)
2 x Long Fangs (3 models, 2 Missile Launchers) in Rhinos (all upgrades)
2 x Blood Claws (10 models, 1 Flamer) in Rhinos (all upgrades)
2 x Blood Claws (5 models, 1 Flamer) in Drop Pods (all upgrades)
2 x Grey Hunters (10 models, 1 Wolf Guard Terminator Pack Leader, 2 Meltaguns) in Drop Pods (all upgrades)
4 x Land Speeders with Assault Cannons and Missile Launchers
2 x Wulfen (5 models, 2 TH/SS, 2 Frost Claws, 1 Pack Leader, 1 Stormfrag Auto-Launcher)
My opponent will be bringing a pure Daemon force. I can't say for certain what he's going to be taking, except that he must take a Daemon Prince with the Daemon of Nurgle special rule to be his Warlord, per the mission outlines. I would also expect to see at least one winged Bloodthirster (probably packing the D), Flesh Hounds, and Skull Cannons. I would not be surprised to see more Daemon Princes or Greater Daemons. Bloodletters, Plaguebearers, Nurglings, and Pink Horrors might also make an appearance. I would not expect to see any Daemon-summoning unless my opponent brings Khorne Daemonkin for the Blood Tithe.
Personally, I think I'm going to have the advantage here, because I should be able to get to most of the objectives by turn 2 at the latest - and in my experience, the Wulfen are one of the nastiest melee units in the game right now. But if you have any extra insights, I'd be happy to hear them!
Edited for clarity.
So what is the win condition? How do you win? Do you need to have more objectives than your opponent at the end of the game, or do you just need to reveal the objectives by rolling 6's? Do Bonus Tertiary points count (i.e. First Blood, Warlord, Linebreaker)?
I can't predict who will win if I don't know the win conditions.
Also, does the Shrouded and Run-2D6"-pick-the-highest applies to Daemons as well or just to the Wolves?
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2016/02/29 00:40:22
Derp. Space Wolves win if the Wulfen are found and at least one of them (the Wulfen) lives to the end of the game. Any other result is a victory to the Daemons.
8 Plague Drones, rot proboscis (3+ poison)
8 Screamers of Tzeentch
8 Screamers of Tzeentch
In case it matters, my group plays with the nurgle dudes being able to roll twice on the new nurgle table (so fishing for +3 T on the plague drones is real)
2016/02/29 00:30:37
Subject: Matchup Predictor - Give me 2 Armies and I will give Tactics and Predict Who Will Win
Nice ya that sounds pretty likely. I can kill the vehicles but then the guys get killed off quick. Cool thread you got going here though. I'll have to think of another one lol.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also ya the formation comes in with one rerollable roll so I can probably get them in turn two. One out of 7 games they haven't so that's not too bad.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/29 00:33:00
My Armies:
Orks about 15000-16000 mostly unpainted but slowly being worked on
Militarum Tempestus about 2000 points just built
Inquisition about 2000 points unpainted
Officio Assassinorum 570 unpainted
I dont paint quickly
2016/02/29 00:35:56
Subject: Re:Matchup Predictor - Give me 2 Armies and I will give Tactics and Predict Who Will Win
So, this Saturday, my buddy and I are going to be running the first mission out of the Curse of the Wulfen campaign. If you're not familiar with it, Space Wolf player gets a standard Hammer and Anvil deployment setup, while the Daemon player gets the rest of the board to set up. The Daemon player has to deploy six objectives in his deployment zone. My Wulfen cannot be deployed until I "find" them, by having a model end their Movement phase within 3" of an Objective marker and "searching" it. I roll a D6, and on a 6, all of my Wulfen units deploy from that objective, and can resolve their Shooting and Assault Phases as normal. Additionally, all units on the battlefield gain Shrouded and Run 2d6 (drop the highest). This will be a 2k point game.
My list will be as follows, using a Wolf Claw Strike Force with 2 Ironwolves Greatpacks and a Wulfen Murderpack:
1x Wolf Lord w/ Runic Armour
1 x Wolf Guard Battle Leader (no upgrades)
2 x Long Fangs (3 models, 2 Missile Launchers) in Rhinos (all upgrades)
2 x Blood Claws (10 models, 1 Flamer) in Rhinos (all upgrades)
2 x Blood Claws (5 models, 1 Flamer) in Drop Pods (all upgrades)
2 x Grey Hunters (10 models, 1 Wolf Guard Terminator Pack Leader, 2 Meltaguns) in Drop Pods (all upgrades)
2 x Land Speeders with Assault Cannons and Multi-Meltas
2 x Land Speeders with Assault Cannons and Heavy Flamers
2 x Wulfen (5 models, 2 TH/SS, 2 Frost Claws, 1 Pack Leader, 1 Stormfrag Auto-Launcher)
My opponent will be bringing a pure Daemon force. I can't say for certain what he's going to be taking, except that he must take a Daemon Prince with the Daemon of Nurgle special rule to be his Warlord, per the mission outlines. I would also expect to see at least one winged Bloodthirster (probably packing the D), Flesh Hounds, and Skull Cannons. I would not be surprised to see more Daemon Princes or Greater Daemons. Bloodletters, Plaguebearers, Nurglings, and Pink Horrors might also make an appearance. I would not expect to see any Daemon-summoning unless my opponent brings Khorne Daemonkin for the Blood Tithe.
Personally, I think I'm going to have the advantage here, because I should be able to get to most of the objectives by turn 2 at the latest - and in my experience, the Wulfen are one of the nastiest melee units in the game right now. But if you have any extra insights, I'd be happy to hear them!
Edited for clarity and to fix list derp.
PrinceOfMadness wrote: Derp. Space Wolves win if the Wulfen are found and at least one of them lives to the end of the game. Any other result is a victory to the Daemons.
Ok. Your army has great mobility, which is perhaps one of the most important factors in this game, at least for your army. Also, while your Assault is pretty good, nothing beats a Daemon Assault army with a Grimoired 2++/3++ unit (unless you are running a super-melee unit like the Wolfstar). If your opponent is savvy, he can make it very, very hard for you to win. Put all 6 objectives as close together to each other as possible and close to a table corner. Then bubble-wrap the entire thing with Daemons so that your drop pods cannot deepstrike in. In order to get to the objectives, you will have to go through layers of Daemons. It is basically a game of time management. The longer it takes for you to reach an objective, the greater the chances for a Daemon victory. However, I cannot say for sure whether your Daemon opponent will be savvy enough to do this.
Tips/Tactics:
Obviously, it doesn't hurt for you to go first. If you can go first, you will have a slight advantage in that you can hit his Daemons first with your alpha-strike. Don't be in too much of a rush to go after the objectives. Revealing them too early might get your Wulfen killed. Go after the objectives instead on Turn 2 or 3. Use at least 1 of your drop pods as a "bait" unit and drop them off on the periphery of the objectives. If he goes after it, then re-direct the rest of your units towards his "weaker" side. Attack him where his allocation of forces is weakest. You really don't want to fight his main force head-on. Watch out for the Bloodthirster when he is Grimoire'd up....he is just too strong.
After your initial firepower, advance your ENTIRE army, even the long fangs. Go flat-out if you have to. You need all the help that you can get in melee. You don't necessarily need to beat his Assault units in combat. You just need to feed him a steady stream of sacrificial units until you manage to "find" the wulfen. When you find them, if you have any transports left still running, embark at least 1 squad into the rhino and then get the heck out of Dodge. You stand a decent chance of winning, but only if you find a way to spread out his army and have all of your units near the action. A Daemon army is just too strong if they stay together and any units that you have away from the action (i.e. long fangs shooting from range) is a unit that he can ignore.
Prediction:
It will be a hard-fought battle and you won't have very much left at the end. However, with smart tactics and depending on when the Wulfen show up, your Space Wolves stand an above-average chance to win this battle.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
cranect wrote: Nice ya that sounds pretty likely. I can kill the vehicles but then the guys get killed off quick. Cool thread you got going here though. I'll have to think of another one lol.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also ya the formation comes in with one rerollable roll so I can probably get them in turn two. One out of 7 games they haven't so that's not too bad.
Excellent! Controlling your reserves is key to a Null-Deployment/Denial strategy.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/02/29 00:41:00
Also since the primary is worth more do you think I should try to whittle the vehicles down some for 2-3 turns and then pile out and annihilate the infantry? So far I have been able to kill either the vehicles or the infantry but not both before they get deleted. The tauroxes should be able to get a 3+ cover fairly easily and can probably either kill or do serious damage to 2 razorbacks a turn.
My Armies:
Orks about 15000-16000 mostly unpainted but slowly being worked on
Militarum Tempestus about 2000 points just built
Inquisition about 2000 points unpainted
Officio Assassinorum 570 unpainted
I dont paint quickly
2016/02/29 00:47:37
Subject: Matchup Predictor - Give me 2 Armies and I will give Tactics and Predict Who Will Win
cranect wrote: Also since the primary is worth more do you think I should try to whittle the vehicles down some for 2-3 turns and then pile out and annihilate the infantry? So far I have been able to kill either the vehicles or the infantry but not both before they get deleted. The tauroxes should be able to get a 3+ cover fairly easily and can probably either kill or do serious damage to 2 razorbacks a turn.
In a Gladius army, both the infantry unit and their rides are ObSec. So both needs to die equally. Kill off the vehicle with anything that can kill them - meltas, plasmas and the tauroxes (though don't risk your Warlord too early if you guys are playing Slay the Warlord bonus point). Save your Hot-shot volleys for the infantry. Unfortunately, I don't believe you have the firepower to annihilate both as you will be losing models as well from his firepower.
Here is the key strategy - KILL HIS MOBILITY! That'll prevent him from getting to the far objectives.
BTW, he may have a way to Ignore Cover if he is running a White Scars Gladius. Make sure to check with him if he has the Hunter's Eye Relic. If he does, then be careful for your tauroxes.
It's either ultras or I think imperial fists although I think he normally goes ultras. Ok ya ill try to blow some of them up with my vehicles for a turn or maybe two and get into position to drop out and blast them. Thanks for the tips.
My Armies:
Orks about 15000-16000 mostly unpainted but slowly being worked on
Militarum Tempestus about 2000 points just built
Inquisition about 2000 points unpainted
Officio Assassinorum 570 unpainted
I dont paint quickly
2016/02/29 02:19:21
Subject: Re:Matchup Predictor - Give Me 2 Armies and I Will Give Tactics and Predict Who Will Win
8 Plague Drones, rot proboscis (3+ poison)
8 Screamers of Tzeentch
8 Screamers of Tzeentch
In case it matters, my group plays with the nurgle dudes being able to roll twice on the new nurgle table (so fishing for +3 T on the plague drones is real)
I see. So your Tyranids against Nick's Daemons? As you didn't mention the mission, I will assume ITC. I will also go with Tyranids as your army with respect to the tactics.
This matchup will be a tough one for the Tyranids. Daemons are just too damn resilient. Dronestar will have 2+ cover in ruins, plus FNP. Screamerstar will be nigh-unkillable if he gets the Grimoire going + Forewarning or Cursed Earth. That is basically 2 very fast and near-invincible units, at least for Tyranids.
Tips/Tactics:
You would want to go 2nd for the objectives. Forget about going 1st. You won't get any meaningful alpha-strikes as Fateweaver should either be hiding or in Reserves if unable to hide. Same with the Screamerstar if they cannot deploy out of LOS or range. Only the Dronestar will be deployed and with 2+ cover and 5+ FNP, you won't do much to them. Actually shooting them is a waste of time, as is targeting a buffed-up screamerstar.
Spread out the objectives. The last thing you want to do is to put them close together so that his Dronestar has easy access to guard them. Ideal placement would be to spread them to the 4 corners. Go after any vulnerable unit that is unbuffed. If Fateweaver presents himself (and he doesn't have a re-rollabe 2++), then you can go after him. Positioning is everything for your flyrants. Keep in mind that he will re-direct your flyrants one way and then turbo-boost the opposite direction, thus forcing your flyrants to fly off the table and lose 1 turn of shooting.
You have 2 main advantages. First of all, he doesn't have very much offense to deal with your flyrants. Secondly, you are running MSU so are slightly better in Objectives missions as long as you spread out your objectives (that is, until your lictors start dying and he starts summoning more and more units). Also, when the opportunity presents itself, lock up his Screamerstar with your Mawlocs. They are resilient enough to lock it in place for several turns. The problem is trying to catch them, but if you do manage to get them in assault, than that is a big advantage for you. If his Screamerstar isn't free to move around, then you've won half the battle.
Finally, you can feed his Dronestar a sacrificial unit to tie them up. If you can keep them from from moving around too much - even by sacrificing your own units to do so - then you will be in a good position. His army is a Board Control army. If you can control his Movement, then you would have achieved Positional Dominance and in doing so, you will be able to control the game much better.
Prediction:
This game is almost a toss-up. He's got 2 unkillable units with his 2 deathstars. You've got 4 with your flyrants. He does have a slight advantage with Summoning because as you are losing units, he is gaining units. I'd say this game is 55/45 in favor of Daemons but really, the winner of this game will be 1) the more experienced general and 2) if he is going 2nd.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/29 15:39:44
LOL this has allready been posted. Well done Yoyoyo =)
It'd be interesting to hear your predictions on the match in batrep, if you haven't read it yet. Mutant Division vs Choppy marines. With this stuff:
As it's not clear, we currently play the way that you roll 4+ before deployment and than attached characters can also charge out of deepstrike (Calgar, yay), and re-roll charge range and don't loose attacks on multi-charge when they're with VV. It'd be interesting to see your predictions with both results.
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2016/02/29 06:07:51
2016/02/29 05:55:50
Subject: Matchup Predictor - Give Me 2 Armies and I Will Give Tactics and Predict Who Will Win
I've actually played against that formation along with Skyhammer and Pinion Company. It's potentially a very brutal army. Unfortunately for my opponent, I went first and by Turn 2, he conceded.
I am... curious. Very well! Jy2 always gives good insight so I will allow this thought exercise to continue! I will even post myself, to see how Jy2s thoughts compare to my own on the matter.
Now I've tested this list (or similar ones to it) against most of the top armies of the current meta, with the exception of Crons for some reason. So, I've decided a good match up would be the top Cron list from LVO, what I think is a solid representation of a good Cron list.
I'll assume you're ignoring player skill in this case, as I'm very unlikely to meet the player of this list in South Florida, but I'd be curious to hear your thoughts. I'll offer my own once you have, but I don't want to give you my ideas.
2016/02/29 06:17:08
Subject: Re:Matchup Predictor - Give Me 2 Armies and I Will Give Tactics and Predict Who Will Win
Here's one for you, taken from game 2 of a recent tournament experience. I'm interested to hear what I could have done to turn this one into a win.
Points: 1850
Mission: Not sure if its an official mission type (ITC, etc.), but the primary objective is escalated killpoints (2 points per unit killed), and the secondary objective is progressive take and hold points that award 2 points per turn for controlling the one closer to you and 4 points per turn for controlling the one farther away from you. Half the points if you contest it.
My army:
Spoiler:
Dark Angels CAD HQ:
Librarian on foot with ML2
Troops:
Scout Squad with 4 Sniper Rifles and a Heavy Bolter, with Camo Cloaks
5 man Tactical Squad with Combiplasma and Plasmagun in a Razorback w/TL Lascannon
Fast Attack:
Drop Pod w/Deathwind Launcher
Heavy Support:
10 man Devastator Squad with 2 Lascannons and 2 Gravcannons and a Rhino (I combat squadded them of course!)
Ravenwing Strike Force:
HQ:
Librarian on a Bike with ML2 and an Auspex
Elites:
Ravenwing Command Squad (6 man) with Apothecary, Champion, RW banner, and 1 grenade launcher
Fast Attack:
Darkshroud
Ravenwing Bike Squad with 6 bikes and a MM attack bike, 2 gravguns, a Power Sword and Melta Bombs on the Sgt.
Ravenwing Bike Squad with 3 bikes, 2 gravguns, Melta Bombs, Lightning Claw and Veteran upgrade on the Sgt.
Ravenwing Land Speeder with TML
Ravenwing Land Speeder with Assault Cannon and MM Officio Assassinorum Detachment:
Culexus Assassin (in the pod)
Opponent's army: Ad Mech War Convocation with BA pods and Culexus. Can't remember what units/upgrades exactly.
My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/7/24, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Imperial Knights: ~2300 | Leagues of Votann: ~1300 | Tyranids: ~3400 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000 | Kruleboyz: ~3500 | Lumineth Realm-Lords: ~700
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2024: 40 | Total models painted in 2025: 25 | Current main painting project: Tomb Kings
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: You need your bumps felt. With a patented, Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000.
The Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000. It only looks like several bricks crudely gaffer taped to a cricket bat.
Grotsnik Corp. Sorry, No Refunds.
2016/02/29 07:08:51
Subject: Matchup Predictor - Give Me 2 Armies and I Will Give Tactics and Predict Who Will Win
You're in luck, jifel. I actually played against Alex Fennell's LVO Necron list and will be posting a battle report of it in my LVO reports. Part I will come out this week and Part II will be next week.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/02/29 17:58:11
- Nemesis Strike Force
GK Librarian - ML3, Domina Liber Daemonica
GK Terminators - 1 Daemon Hammer, 1 Psycannon
Dreadknight - Personal Teleporter, Heavy Psycannon, Heavy Incinerator, Daemon Hammer
Kaldor Draigo (245pts)
I'll make the following assumptions:
1) ITC missions.
2) You're playing Draigostar
The CSM list has a few traits that will give the Draigostar some problems. It's got a number of units with no armor saves (Spawns, Daemons). It's also a MSU list, which is something that will potentially give your mini-Centstar problems.
Normally, I prefer a bigger Centstar unit if you're going to tack on all those characters, but in this case, 3 centurions is ok against MSU units of 1. You can reliably take down 2 Mutilators or Obliterators a turn with your mini-star. You've also got the advantage of multiple Banishments against his Daemon force.
Tips/Tactics:
You're going to want to go for Perfect Timing with Tigurius. You're also going to want to go 2nd because he is most likely going to Deepstrike his Oblits. Therefore, you don't need to worry about his Alpha-strike (and if he deploys them instead, just put Draigo in front to tank their shots, though I believe that will be a bad deployment strategy on his part). His army plays to the Objectives slightly better than yours due to all of his MSU units and his 2 fast and tough Spawn units. Target priority is key here. Don't worry too much about his Spawns initially (unless if he offers you no other targets). Go after the easier to kill MSU units first, starting with the Oblits. If your mini-star isn't getting about 2 kills a turn for the smaller 1-man units or 1-kill for the larger non-Spawn squads, then you are behind.
He doesn't have anything that can reliably hurt your star too badly so his best chances of winning is to kill off your "support" units. Be aware of that. In this game, whoever can kill more of the opponent's supporting units - thus affecting their chances to take/contest objectives - will have the advantage. Now if you really want to win, go with Daemon Summoning yourself. It isn't fluffy, but Tiggy can much, much more reliably summon Daemons than the Chaos list can.
Prediction:
Your mini-Centstar isn't terribly efficient. When you've got more characters in there than actual Centurions, it becomes too much support and not enough offense (my rule-of-thumb is no more characters in there than you have Centurions). You're actually going to have a tough time dealing with his Spawns. This is going to be a game of positioning and with his fast, resilient Spawn units and his MSU build, he's going to have an inherent advantage against you in that department. Dreadknight is a bonus for you, though I suspect a decent Chaos general will target him with the Oblits over your Centstar.
Overall, I think Chaos will take it here if you play nice. However, if you resort to Daemon Summoning as well (and if you do it every turn), then your army will be able to take it.
koooaei wrote: LOL this has allready been posted. Well done Yoyoyo =)
It'd be interesting to hear your predictions on the match in batrep, if you haven't read it yet. Mutant Division vs Choppy marines. With this stuff:
As it's not clear, we currently play the way that you roll 4+ before deployment and than attached characters can also charge out of deepstrike (Calgar, yay), and re-roll charge range and don't loose attacks on multi-charge when they're with VV. It'd be interesting to see your predictions with both results.
So I take it you are talking about the lists in your batrep. I'll re-post them here:
Mutant Division:
- Crymson Slaughter
Sorcerror [bike, ml3, baelstar, force axe, melta bombz, sigil, gift of mutation]
2*10 Cultists
2*5 Spawns [MoN]
- The Purge Detachment
Sorcerror [bike, ml3, spell familliar, force axe, melta bombz, sigil, gift of mutation]
6*1 Mutilators [MoN]
4*1 Obliterators [MoN]
-Daemons
Masque of Slaanesh
Herald of Tzeench [ml1]
10 Daemonettes [instrument, flag]
12 Horrors
VS Ultra-choppy Marines:
- Ultramarines
Calgar [termi armor]
Sarge Chronos in a Vindicator [storm bolter]
2*5 Space Marines [heavy bolters]
6 Honor Guards [maces, banner]
Stormraven [tl heavy bolter, tl assault cannon, tl hurricane bolter sponsons]
3 Devastator Centurions [grav, tl hurricane bolters]
Drop Pod [stormbolter]
- Charge-out-of-deepstrike UM vets - for those who's not familliar with this formation: vanguard vets can choose to pass or fail reserves, they don't scatter when within 12" from 2 squads of scouts and they can charge the turn they deepstrike and as it's not specified otherwise, attached characters also can charge out of deepstrike (Calgar, yay), also re-roll charge range and don't loose attacks on multi-charge.
5 Vanguard Veterans [axes]
5 Vanguard Veterans [maces]
2*5 Scouts [bolters] + Landspeeder Storm [tl heavy bolter]
Since you guys played pure Maelstroms, I will go with the same Mission scenario.
Just FYI, but I haven't read your battle report yet. I'll do it after my Analysis.
Tips/Tactics:
You're going to want to play a Denial-type strategy. Reserve all your MSU Oblits/Mutilators to Deepstrike them onto objectives later. Deepstrike your Daemon units as well, unless you decide to throw one out as a sacrificial unit. Throw out a sacrificial unit to bait his Vanguards, preferably away from any objectives (i.e. in one of the corner quadrants). Thus, if he goes for it, he will be out of position with regards to the majority of the objectives. He's not going to take the bait if it is a weak unit like the cultists, but if you put out one of your Spawn units (without characters attached), then there's a good chance he will go after them. Remember, deploy enough units such that if he assaults and kills one of them, you won't be tabled. Also, spread out those units so that there is no way for him to multi-assault.
Target Priority is also important. You won't be able to do much to the Stormraven until it lands, but take out those Land Speeder Storms AT ALL COSTS! If you can control the Movement Phase, then you can control the game but in order to do so, you need to take out his mobility.
Prediction:
Maelstrom is really a hard Mission type to predict. A lot of it is based off of the luck of the draw. If you draw 3 crap Maelstrom objectives and he draws 3 good ones, you are going to be in the hole from the get-go. But if we assume that you guys are drawing average cards where you both have about equal chances to achieve, I will give your Chaos the win in this matchup.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/29 17:58:34
As Dark Eldar could I just ask for some general advice for beating Gladius? I have enough Dark Eldar to jiggery-pokery with my own list but his list at 1850 is Normal Gladius (6 Tacs, 2 Assault and 2 Devs) + a Stormraven and 2 Stormtalons, all Razorbacks are totting Heavy Bolters and all Tac squads house a Meltagun.
I like to run a variation on Jimsolo's freakshow list, Heroes Path + Dark Artisan formation plus A CAD Dark Eldar army. I use Raiders instead of Venoms because I am fond of the 3+ jink save but I could switch to Venoms if you believe it'll help against all his Obj.Sec.
It just seems like he can out score me, out shoot me and I can't out combat him or Psy-Shriek him to death or make him run off the board. Pain Engines are relatively survivable with their 4+-re-roll1's FNP but against Grav Gun Devastators they are living on borrowed time. Perhaps I should invest more heavily into Coven? Get a few more Talsoi and run a Corpse Thief Claw to punish him for MSU?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/29 18:24:52
2016/02/29 19:06:18
Subject: Matchup Predictor - Give Me 2 Armies and I Will Give Tactics and Predict Who Will Win
ALEXisAWESOME wrote: As Dark Eldar could I just ask for some general advice for beating Gladius? I have enough Dark Eldar to jiggery-pokery with my own list but his list at 1850 is Normal Gladius (6 Tacs, 2 Assault and 2 Devs) + a Stormraven and 2 Stormtalons, all Razorbacks are totting Heavy Bolters and all Tac squads house a Meltagun.
I like to run a variation on Jimsolo's freakshow list, Heroes Path + Dark Artisan formation plus A CAD Dark Eldar army. I use Raiders instead of Venoms because I am fond of the 3+ jink save but I could switch to Venoms if you believe it'll help against all his Obj.Sec.
It just seems like he can out score me, out shoot me and I can't out combat him or Psy-Shriek him to death or make him run off the board. Pain Engines are relatively survivable with their 4+-re-roll1's FNP but against Grav Gun Devastators they are living on borrowed time. Perhaps I should invest more heavily into Coven? Get a few more Talsoi and run a Corpse Thief Claw to punish him for MSU?
Sorry, Battle Company I know, but I am not an expert in the Dark Eldar army/formations nor am I really familiar with Jimsolo's Freakshow list. It'll help if you can be more specific with your DE army list composition.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
jifel wrote: I am... curious. Very well! Jy2 always gives good insight so I will allow this thought exercise to continue! I will even post myself, to see how Jy2s thoughts compare to my own on the matter.
Now I've tested this list (or similar ones to it) against most of the top armies of the current meta, with the exception of Crons for some reason. So, I've decided a good match up would be the top Cron list from LVO, what I think is a solid representation of a good Cron list.
I'll assume you're ignoring player skill in this case, as I'm very unlikely to meet the player of this list in South Florida, but I'd be curious to hear your thoughts. I'll offer my own once you have, but I don't want to give you my ideas.
The Void Shield Generator is good against Necrons. In most tournament formats, I believe it is ruled that Gauss cannot penetrate the Void Shields, thus basically rendering your army impervious to his shooting (unless he can get within 12" of the VSG).
Tips/Tactics:
Obviously, you'd want to go 2nd. There's no reason not to in an Objectives game, especially when you don't have to worry about his alpha-strike. Take out his Spider as early as possible with your flyrants. He's the reason why the wraithstar is near invincible. Keep in mind that Orikan's re-roll 1's on saves only affects units with RP. Thus, if you take out the Spider, the wraiths will lose both RP as well as the ability to re-roll 1's on saves.
After taking out his spider, then you can go after the other units. Flame his scarabs with the Hive Crone. They'll probably be hiding so it make take a couple of turns before you can do so. Take out his tomb blades as a high priority. They are the most mobile units in his army. Destroyers should be deepstriking in. When they come in, focus on 1 unit at a time til it dies. Basically, go after any mobile units as your priority - scarabs, destroyers and tomb blades. If you can immobilize his army (in other words, if you can control the Movement phase), then you will be in great shape.
As for the wraithstar, lock them up in combat with your Skytyrant. Try to hold them near the middle. It is a game of board control. Try to take out his scarabs early because they can really hurt your gargoyles with their Volume-of-Attacks (as a last resort, hit them with your Mawloc even if in close combat). If you can lock up his Wraithstar for most of the game, then you will be in good shape.
Your bugs do have the tools to fight the Necrons. The key to this game is proper target prioritization and whoever can control the Movement phase.
Prediction:
With the Void Shield Generator, I'd say you have a small advantage against the Necrons. It will be a super-close game and depending on whether you can take out his Spider and fast units in a timely manner (and whoever is going 2nd), you may actually be able to pull this one out. I'll give it to Tyranids in a tightly contested game.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/29 20:01:50
Heroes Path formation:
Solitaire with Cegorarch's kiss
DeathJester
Shadowseer with Mask of Secrets Mastery level 2.
(Shadowseer throws all my dice at Shriek, which puts the opponent at -3 Leadership if within 12'' of both herself and the Pain Engines)
Dark Artisan formation:
Haemonculus with Scissorhands, Webway portal, Liquifier Gun and Sump.
Talosi with TL Liquifier + Heat Lance.
Chronus with Spirit Probe.
(Most durable Warlord I can buy, T7 4+ FNP re-rolling 1's. Good area denial. Deepstrike in and Flame a unit then act as area denial)
CAD Llhamaen in Venom with double cannons
2x10 Warriors with Splinter cannon's in Raiders with Dark lances, Night shields and Splinter racks
1 5 man warrior unit with Blaster inside doube cannon venom.
2x5 Scourges with 4 Haywire Blasters
1x3 Reavers with 1 Cluster Caltrops
2xDark Lance Ravager
(My Obj.Sec, everyone is mobile and has decent fire power. Has powerful AV but all that is tied to certain units and such is vulnerable to being counter striked)
I'm perhaps considering doing a switch about to include the Corpse theif Claw (5 Talosi, 1 unit, Scout, gains VP for every non-vehicle unit killed) by dropping the Dark Artisan and the Heroes Path formation but that unit is hard countered by D weapons and excess Grav. I have enough AV to knock out the first wave, but then when he fires his Heavy Bolters at my Ravagers they are forced to Jink or they just shred the Scourges, thus making me AV worth little and less.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/29 20:31:20
2016/02/29 20:40:26
Subject: Re:Matchup Predictor - Give Me 2 Armies and I Will Give Tactics and Predict Who Will Win
Maelstrom is really a hard Mission type to predict. A lot of it is based off of the luck of the draw. If you draw 3 crap Maelstrom objectives and he draws 3 good ones, you are going to be in the hole from the get-go. But if we assume that you guys are drawing average cards where you both have about equal chances to achieve, I will give your Chaos the win in this matchup.
Great insight! I played a bit differently - leaving a landspeeder cause it was not ob-sec, though a very annoying one. But it was dictated with an unexpected 1-st turn luck in getting to assault and absolute misfortune in killing centurions. There were more important targets there for my limited board presence and mobility early on - as all of the spawns were locked in combat from turn 1-2. One squad was taking casualties against calgar + mace vets and the other couldn't finish off 3 centurions for half the game.
It was a fun game and yep, muties helped a lot. They weren't too killy but they controle the field well. I also like how masque performs. Seems, it'd be the only way to deal with deathstars for my orkses.
Also, i got Kill The Flyer with a mutilator...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/29 20:42:39
2016/03/01 00:00:50
Subject: Re:Matchup Predictor - Give Me 2 Armies and I Will Give Tactics and Predict Who Will Win
1004 points (I asked him to set a limit that I would match, he set 1004)
Space wolf CAD
Rune priest,
Grey hunters bolt guns and chains swords
Blood claws bolt guns and chain swords
Venerable dreadnaught with hell frost cannon and power fist
Venerable dreadnaught with storm shield and thunder axe?
Terminators with stuff
Potentially TWC with hammers and shields (doubt it though)
Not sure what else
Go
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2016/03/01 00:17:54
12,000
2016/03/01 00:12:56
Subject: Matchup Predictor - Give Me 2 Armies and I Will Give Tactics and Predict Who Will Win
I was half tempted to give some super trolly random matchup like fairly even 200 point kill teams using out of the book maelstrom missions, but I'm lazy, so just pretend I did that and laugh.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/01 00:13:10
8 Plague Drones, rot proboscis (3+ poison)
8 Screamers of Tzeentch
8 Screamers of Tzeentch
In case it matters, my group plays with the nurgle dudes being able to roll twice on the new nurgle table (so fishing for +3 T on the plague drones is real)
I see. So your Tyranids against Nick's Daemons? As you didn't mention the mission, I will assume ITC. I will also go with Tyranids as your army with respect to the tactics.
This matchup will be a tough one for the Tyranids. Daemons are just too damn resilient. Dronestar will have 2+ cover in ruins, plus FNP. Screamerstar will be nigh-unkillable if he gets the Grimoire going + Forewarning or Cursed Earth. That is basically 2 very fast and near-invincible units, at least for Tyranids.
Tips/Tactics:
You would want to go 2nd for the objectives. Forget about going 1st. You won't get any meaningful alpha-strikes as Fateweaver should either be hiding or in Reserves if unable to hide. Same with the Screamerstar if they cannot deploy out of LOS or range. Only the Dronestar will be deployed and with 2+ cover and 5+ FNP, you won't do much to them. Actually shooting them is a waste of time, as is targeting a buffed-up screamerstar.
Spread out the objectives. The last thing you want to do is to put them close together so that his Dronestar has easy access to guard them. Ideal placement would be to spread them to the 4 corners. Go after any vulnerable unit that is unbuffed. If Fateweaver presents himself (and he doesn't have a re-rollabe 2++), then you can go after him. Positioning is everything for your flyrants. Keep in mind that he will re-direct your flyrants one way and then turbo-boost the opposite direction, thus forcing your flyrants to fly off the table and lose 1 turn of shooting.
You have 2 main advantages. First of all, he doesn't have very much offense to deal with your flyrants. Secondly, you are running MSU so are slightly better in Objectives missions as long as you spread out your objectives (that is, until your lictors start dying and he starts summoning more and more units). Also, when the opportunity presents itself, lock up his Screamerstar with your Mawlocs. They are resilient enough to lock it in place for several turns. The problem is trying to catch them, but if you do manage to get them in assault, than that is a big advantage for you. If his Screamerstar isn't free to move around, then you've won half the battle.
Finally, you can feed his Dronestar a sacrificial unit to tie them up. If you can keep them from from moving around too much - even by sacrificing your own units to do so - then you will be in a good position. His army is a Board Control army. If you can control his Movement, then you would have achieved Positional Dominance and in doing so, you will be able to control the game much better.
Prediction:
This game is almost a toss-up. He's got 2 unkillable units with his 2 deathstars. You've got 4 with your flyrants. He does have a slight advantage with Summoning because as you are losing units, he is gaining units. I'd say this game is 55/45 in favor of Daemons but really, the winner of this game will be 1) the more experienced general and 2) if he is going 2nd.
Haha great prediction. I played this game against him and it could have been a tie if I had thought to use my mawloc into combat on the last turn of the game. He made me go first and wouldn't even allow me to anti-sieze! (It's a fake mechanic that I came up with where you make the other person go first on a 1 lol)
Also FWIW they are also my Daemons now haha. It's the list I run, although I have been toying around with the D thirster and the khorne knight. All so solid.
2016/03/01 03:35:09
Subject: Re:Matchup Predictor - Give Me 2 Armies and I Will Give Tactics and Predict Who Will Win
ZergSmasher wrote: Here's one for you, taken from game 2 of a recent tournament experience. I'm interested to hear what I could have done to turn this one into a win.
Points: 1850
Mission: Not sure if its an official mission type (ITC, etc.), but the primary objective is escalated killpoints (2 points per unit killed), and the secondary objective is progressive take and hold points that award 2 points per turn for controlling the one closer to you and 4 points per turn for controlling the one farther away from you. Half the points if you contest it.
My army:
Spoiler:
Dark Angels CAD HQ:
Librarian on foot with ML2
Troops:
Scout Squad with 4 Sniper Rifles and a Heavy Bolter, with Camo Cloaks
5 man Tactical Squad with Combiplasma and Plasmagun in a Razorback w/TL Lascannon
Fast Attack:
Drop Pod w/Deathwind Launcher
Heavy Support:
10 man Devastator Squad with 2 Lascannons and 2 Gravcannons and a Rhino (I combat squadded them of course!)
Ravenwing Strike Force:
HQ:
Librarian on a Bike with ML2 and an Auspex
Elites:
Ravenwing Command Squad (6 man) with Apothecary, Champion, RW banner, and 1 grenade launcher
Fast Attack:
Darkshroud
Ravenwing Bike Squad with 6 bikes and a MM attack bike, 2 gravguns, a Power Sword and Melta Bombs on the Sgt.
Ravenwing Bike Squad with 3 bikes, 2 gravguns, Melta Bombs, Lightning Claw and Veteran upgrade on the Sgt.
Ravenwing Land Speeder with TML
Ravenwing Land Speeder with Assault Cannon and MM Officio Assassinorum Detachment:
Culexus Assassin (in the pod)
Opponent's army: Ad Mech War Convocation with BA pods and Culexus. Can't remember what units/upgrades exactly.
War Convocation is a top-tier build, especially if the general behind it is skilled. One of my teammates who is a Top 5 ITC player runs a very similar War Convo/BA/Culexus build as your opponent (some of you guys will know him as iNcontrol) and his army is really tough to play against. They've also got more special rules than I care to remember. Lol.
A few tricks of theirs that you should know.
1. They can get Stealth and Shrouding for 2 turns, so if you think you can get the alpha-strike against them, you are looking at shooting at units with 2+ cover for 2 turns.
2. Their alpha strike - 2 units of Grav kataphrons in drop pods - is super-nasty. Moreover, they have ways to cause -2 to your cover saves. Don't think your Ravenwing with its re-rollable cover saves is safe.
3. They've actually got some nasty assault units. I actually assaulted one of those units with my D-thirster before and got owned by them to my surprise.
4. His units are surprisingly fast. Dunestrider gives him +3" to move, +3" to run and +3" to assault. Keep a safe distance from his Skitarri assault guys if you don't want to get assaulted by them.
Tips/Tactics:
Going 1st or 2nd would depend on how the progressive objectives will be scored. If they are scored at the beginning of your next turn or at the end of each player turn, then go 1st. If they are scored at the end of each game turn, then consider going 2nd (you're not going to kill much of his army due to 2+ cover and he is still going to get the alpha-strike against your army). You're going to take your lumps from his alpha-strike no matter what. Just make sure to kill off those Kataphrons afterwards with both shooting and assault.
Knight will be a problem for your army as you just can't deal with it and all the other threats in his army at the same time. Same with his assault units. They might look scrawny, but they pack quite a punch. I've seen them (a unit of 5 only) kill bloodthirsters and wraithknights before so they're pretty deadly. Unfortunately, so is his shooting. Be careful of engaging them. You also don't want to engage the knight if he is armed with D weapon in CC. You know what they say, shoot the choppy ones and chop the shooty ones.
This is how he will play. Assault units and drop pod units will play aggressively and try to hold you in your deployment zone. His softer units and his Warlord will stay in his backfield and the Imperial Knight will play free safety in the middle. In case you go after his backfield, his Knight will go back to help out. He'll have a lot of units to contest your objective whereas you won't have much to contest his. Consider splitting up your army and put pressure on his backfield with your Ravenwing bike units. Use the melta squad to distract the Knight and clear out his backfield with your Command squad. It won't be easy, but it will be better than trying to fight his army while stuck in your deployment zone. Then, it'll be your game to lose as your objective will always be threatened while his remains safe from any of your threats.
Prediction:
War Convocation takes this one and they win big. There is a reason why War Convo is a top-tier build and you will find out soon enough why (barring really bad dice or a really crappy generalship by your opponent). They have so many dangerous units and their army is just full of tricks. If you had some form of Ignores Cover firepower or anti-deepstrike defense, you may stand a chance. But your army currently has a lot of units that won't really do too well against them. The Ravenwing part is good. I love their mobility. However, the more static CAD part of your army will be a liability in this game due to their lack of mobility.
Wow....I don't know if this will be much of a game. Pure Grey Knights are just gimped compared to all of the new stuff coming out today. I don't see him with much of a chance against your army. Grav is the bane to an elite GK army and they don't do too well against TH/SS terminators either. This is really going to be an uphill battle for the Knights.
I will assume that you are running Space Marines.
Tips/Tactics:
Going 1st or 2nd, it's not going to matter much to your Space Marines as you can choose to have Skyhammer come in on Turns 1 or 2. Either ways, when they do come in, they're pretty much going to f*ck up his army. But if you have the choice, choose to go 2nd.
However, watch out if he spreads out. Your army lacks the mobility to re-deploy rapidly once they come down. Now he isn't fast either, but the stormraven and dreadknight does have some mobility. You need to kill off his mobility. That means the dreadknight first and then the infantry. Don't worry too much about the Stormraven until it lands. Then you can try to take it out.
Prediction:
Unless he gets lucky with the Maelstrom objectives, this isn't going to end well for the Grey Knights. Space Marines take it. I wouldn't go so far as to call it a tabling, but the Stormraven may be the only thing still alive from his army by the end of the game.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
niv-mizzet wrote: I was half tempted to give some super trolly random matchup like fairly even 200 point kill teams using out of the book maelstrom missions, but I'm lazy, so just pretend I did that and laugh.
Would you like to join in as an Analyst? As you are a fairly astute player, perhaps you can give analysis of some of the matchups as well (in particular, the ones you specialize in such as Battle Company).
If anyone wants to try analyze and give predictions to any of the matchups here, feel free to give it a go.
Haha great prediction. I played this game against him and it could have been a tie if I had thought to use my mawloc into combat on the last turn of the game. He made me go first and wouldn't even allow me to anti-sieze! (It's a fake mechanic that I came up with where you make the other person go first on a 1 lol)
Also FWIW they are also my Daemons now haha. It's the list I run, although I have been toying around with the D thirster and the khorne knight. All so solid.
Thanks!
In my Daemon army, I am running the D-thirster and the Khorne Knight. They make for a very good combination. Took them to the LVO and they did quite well. You guys will read about my LVO experiences in the near future. The trend now is to go with Chaos Knights, especially in the ITC format where they are legal. Even Nick is running a Chaos Knight in his list currently.
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2016/03/01 04:00:56
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
14000, all over the place 
~16000 Astra Militarum: 
~1200 | Imperial Knights: 
~2300 | Leagues of Votann: 
~1300 | Tyranids: 
~3500 | Lumineth Realm-Lords: 
~700
20000+ points
