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Hi! I recently came into possession of a army of blood ravens (my favorite chapter and how I was introduced to 40k via DoW1). I want to make a fluffy list featuring them, but am not really sure how to go about it in such a way. I do NOT want to use the gladius, but am fine with using the formations within it. I want it to be fluffy, but not at the cost of being effective.

One big question is which chapter tactics to use for my Blood Ravens and which space marine character to represent my custom Gabriel Angelos. Not really sure which one to use, but I am looking for a beatsticky HQ for Gabriel so I am thinking Fists for Lysander.

I know they have a thing for librarians, but thats all I really have to go on. I am not sure how to build a list around that.

Probably librarian heavy raven guard is your best bet.

From the 'marine 4th Edition codex:

See But Don't Be Seen (Tacticals and Devs can take Infiltrate and Acute Senses)

Trust Your Battle Brothers (Command, Veteran, Tactical, Assault and Devastator Squads can take Counter-attack and True Grit and automatically get a close combat weapon)

Flesh Over Steel (Land Raiders, Predator Destructors, Whirlwind and Vindicator are 0-1, Crusader and Predator Annihilator cannot be taken, Dedicated Transports take up Fast Attack slots)

Do nothing but a Librarius Conclave and a 1st Company Formation and do STEEL REHN.

Take Inq with servo skulls and place them on the board to prepare your borders. These numerous beacons will allow for multiple, simultaneous, and devastating defensive deep strikes. The codex astartes names this maneuver STEEL REHN! Descend upon the foe, overwhelm them, and leave none alive. Just make sure you leave some ground forces to defend your HQ. You are Space Marines, you are the Emperor's Fury.

You might need permission form your opponent but try to take as many relics from other chapters as you can (only the questionable quality ones, not the OP stuff). Also use bits from other space marine factions to fit their whole "Bloody Magpie" reputation.

Currently I made a pure drop pod list made up of a CAD with an allied Skyhammer. At 1500 points its a pure null deployment alpha strike list so thats cool. I was thinking of using ultra tactics for the Skyhammer and Carcharodons for the CAD.

Quick Note on the Carcharodons tactics. RAW their tactics cause them to be desperate allies for IoM. It is my belief that when I use Blood Raven chapter tactics Which are to copy another chapter's tactics that this would not effect my army. The reason for this being is that the skyhammer formation is using blood raven tactics and those tactics are selected to be Ultramarine tactics. The CAD is using blood raven tactics copying Carcharodons thus they are not allied armies but instead the same army as they are both Blood Ravens, just selecting different chapter tactics to use in each formation.


Lore wise it fits the obvious deep strike fetish and joke. Its also lead by a Librarian. I went with Carcharodon CT for the CAD to give the deep striking tactical and command squads an additional CQC weapon for 1 point each. I feel that it plays into the chapters lore after the events of DoW2 as they are bloodied and scarred from the brutal previous years so they are hardened. That and I think it would be cool to use the alpha strike turn 1 tactic then see what I can do with assault.

Beyond that I am thinking of a Raptor chapter tactics army. I would use a good deal of scouts and librarians to play into the lore of the blood ravens having depleted numbers and these are a great deal of the new recruits. Maybe even use the 10th company detachment with my Cyrus model to be "counts as Telion".

Another idea was to roll with Imperial Fist tactics and roll with a mostly sternguard force. Probs a full 1st company detachment with a CAD being lead by Lysander with scout troops. Metal bawkses everywhere.
I feel that this reflects the lore well in how these veterans are the hardened veterans of the chapters brutal history.

What do you guys think? The chapter tactics to use are what really gets me.

I might suggest you try running Star Phantoms chapter tactics so you can make your turn 1 deep strike even more devastating. Also with bonus to reserve rolls means you should get the rest of your army in turn 2 which fits well with a pod heavy army. Could maybe take them in a Gladius Strike Force to get the combat doctrines along with your star phantoms chapter tactics (again multiple, simultaneous, devastating "defensive" deep strikes ).

As per the rules if you take the Carcharodon's chapter tactics and it says they are desperate allies with IoM then they would act as desperate allies to your ultramarine skyhammer because your blood ravens chapter tactics are copying the entirety of the chapter tactics. RAW I think Carcharodon's would be desperate allies with other Carcharodon (despite how stupid that sounds).

 Vankraken wrote:
I might suggest you try running Star Phantoms chapter tactics so you can make your turn 1 deep strike even more devastating. Also with bonus to reserve rolls means you should get the rest of your army in turn 2 which fits well with a pod heavy army. Could maybe take them in a Gladius Strike Force to get the combat doctrines along with your star phantoms chapter tactics (again multiple, simultaneous, devastating "defensive" deep strikes ).

As per the rules if you take the Carcharodon's chapter tactics and it says they are desperate allies with IoM then they would act as desperate allies to your ultramarine skyhammer because your blood ravens chapter tactics are copying the entirety of the chapter tactics. RAW I think Carcharodon's would be desperate allies with other Carcharodon (despite how stupid that sounds).

Well I am already taking the Skyhammer. I dont want to run even more gladius cheese on top of that for casual games. Theres that and I dont own that many drop pods to do the pure drop pod army I have in mind. I thought about star phantoms twin linked for one turn, but to me it just seems like worse Ultramarine tactics as with the ultras you get one of each doctrine meaning far more coverage throughout your army and for more than one turn.

In regards to Carcharadon tactics I dont think it would cause a conflict because the Skyhammer is not an allied force. The army itself is 100% made up of the FW Blood Raven chapter tactics. I have two separate formations comprised of said tactic and said formations choose to "copy" the benefits of other chapter's tactics, but this does not replace their own core chapter tactics. I have not found any rules stating that my two separate blood raven formations can not choose to choose different bonuses that originate from separate chapters. They are not allying with themselves so thats not breaking any chapter tactic rules and because they are not allied with anyone the Carcharodons caveat about desperate allies does not come into effect.

Thats at least how I have understood the rules. I could be 100% wrong so feel free to correct me.

Clarification for those confused: Official Blood Raven chapter tactics (provided by Forge World) state that they can use any chapter's chapter tactics.

Each separate detachment (CAD, Allied, Formation, "Decurion", named faction FOC, etc) follows the ally rules when included of the same army (army being the entire X points list). The friendship chart doesn't just apply to the "Allied Detachment" but to every kind of detachment (GW really needs to use their Thesaurus for more than finding new words for Blood, Kill, and Wolf.) Skyhammer is a formation detachment so it has to follow those interaction guidelines for allies, even if it shares the same chapter tactics as another detachment in the same army list. When your Blood Ravens Skyhammer adopt the Carcharodon's tactics it takes on all the limitations and benefits of those tactics which in this case includes how it interacts with allies (Desperate Allies with IoM). Not trying to burst your bubble but I could definitely see somebody getting all pissy when you try to sit down and play with your army. (Personally I would have zero problem allowing them as Battle Bros, its nice to not see a billion White Scars lists).

If Skyhammer was somehow a legal auxiliary component of say the Gladius detachment (to be 100% clear its not) then it would have the same chapter tactics as the entire Gladius and by that I mean you adopt a single chapter tactic and it applies to all of them.

Can you still field Vet Sarge Lysander?
His Bolter drill might be good with Sternguard to represent Tarkus and his guys.

Then you ally in a Vindicare as Cyrus and use current Lysander as Gabe.

On the other hand, you could just go full ultramarines.
They have a good librarian, beatstick CM (fluff the fists as daemonhammer) scout sergeant and even a tank commander (martellus)

You could view the chapter tactics as your 'activated abilities' - focus fire on your devastators etc.

Vankraken wrote:Each separate detachment (CAD, Allied, Formation, "Decurion", named faction FOC, etc) follows the ally rules when included of the same army (army being the entire X points list). The friendship chart doesn't just apply to the "Allied Detachment" but to every kind of detachment (GW really needs to use their Thesaurus for more than finding new words for Blood, Kill, and Wolf.) Skyhammer is a formation detachment so it has to follow those interaction guidelines for allies, even if it shares the same chapter tactics as another detachment in the same army list. When your Blood Ravens Skyhammer adopt the Carcharodon's tactics it takes on all the limitations and benefits of those tactics which in this case includes how it interacts with allies (Desperate Allies with IoM). Not trying to burst your bubble but I could definitely see somebody getting all pissy when you try to sit down and play with your army. (Personally I would have zero problem allowing them as Battle Bros, its nice to not see a billion White Scars lists).

If Skyhammer was somehow a legal auxiliary component of say the Gladius detachment (to be 100% clear its not) then it would have the same chapter tactics as the entire Gladius and by that I mean you adopt a single chapter tactic and it applies to all of them.

Ahh alright so say even two Carcharodon CADs would be desperate allies with each-other. Thanks for the explanation. I never knew it worked that way ^_^. I should be able to pass that one over with the guys at my FLGS as being desperate allies with yourself would just be silly.

=Angel= wrote:Can you still field Vet Sarge Lysander?
His Bolter drill might be good with Sternguard to represent Tarkus and his guys.

Then you ally in a Vindicare as Cyrus and use current Lysander as Gabe.

On the other hand, you could just go full ultramarines.
They have a good librarian, beatstick CM (fluff the fists as daemonhammer) scout sergeant and even a tank commander (martellus)

You could view the chapter tactics as your 'activated abilities' - focus fire on your devastators etc.

Yeah the other two contenders for chapter tactics are the Ultramarines and Imperial Fists for the reasons you listed. Lysander fits Gabriel better I think so point for the Fists.
In addition their sentinel of terra relic for Librarians would be very helpful. Vindicare as Cyrus could work yeah. Would be interesting at the very least. Ultramarines have their appeal as well in the form of their great characters across the board (well minus Chronos. IMO he seems like a waste).

Now here is a quick question that I did not find a clear answer to in the codex. If I have two separate Ultramarine formations do they handle their combat doctrines differently? So would the Skyhammer be able to activate its devastator turn one while the CAD activates its tactical turn one? I naturally assume that their number of uses dont stack from separate formations.

Where are the FW Blood Ravens chapter tactics found?

There are no FW chapter tactics for blood ravens.

There are multiple, in their download page, but blood ravens aint on the list.



We got a blood raven model in deathwatch though, so they are kind of "gotten real", maybe they'll one day make a full chapter in a campaign. (maybe even fenris 2? the ravens showing up in a 1ksons related war isn't far fetched)

 BoomWolf wrote:
There are no FW chapter tactics for blood ravens.

There are multiple, in their download page, but blood ravens aint on the list.



We got a blood raven model in deathwatch though, so they are kind of "gotten real", maybe they'll one day make a full chapter in a campaign. (maybe even fenris 2? the ravens showing up in a 1ksons related war isn't far fetched)

I remember finding their tactics on the FW site that has their list of tactics and on 1d4chan where it was listed. This was several months ago, but I know for a FACT they were listed on the FW site. If they are not there now then they must have been removed. On 1d4chan they are still mentioned as having chapter tactics even though their actual entry is no longer there. I would like to think their tactics were removed to make new ones for them in which case I would be overjoyed.

Those on 1d4chan are in the homebrewed section.

I can tell you beyond any doubt, there were never any official blood raven tactics. GW or FW.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Those on 1d4chan are in the homebrewed section.

I can tell you beyond any doubt, there were never any official blood raven tactics. GW or FW.

I would have bet money that I saw them listed on an official FW document next to the other chapters, but I guess I must have been mistaken. Well thank you for correcting me regardless. ^_^

Well there goes the Carcharodons/ultras idea... :(