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Tabletop Wargames: a Designers' & Writers' Handbook, by Rick Priestley  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

Rick Priestley is taking preorders for a book about game design:
Amazon.com wrote:Unlike chess or backgammon, tabletop wargames have no single, accepted set of rules. Most wargamers at some point have had a go at writing their own rules and virtually all have modified commercially available sets to better suit their idea of the ideal game or to adapt favorite rules to a different historical period or setting. But many who try soon find that writing a coherent set of rules is harder than they thought, while tweaking one part of an existing set can often have unforeseen consequences for the game as a whole. Now, at last, help is at hand.

Veteran gamer and rules writer John Lambshead has teamed up with the legendary Rick Priestley, creator of Games Workshop’s phenomenally successful Warhammer system, to create this essential guide for any would-be wargame designer or tinkerer. Rick and John give excellent advice on deciding what you want from a wargame and balancing ‘realism’ (be it in a historical or a fantasy/sci-fi context) with playability. They discuss the relative merits of various mechanisms (cards, dice, tables) then discuss how to select and combine these to handle the various essential game elements of turn sequences, combat resolution, morale etc to create a rewarding and playable game that suits your tastes and requirements


Preorder at $25 at Amazon.com

I wonder if he'll make the Nov. 2016 street date.

I also wonder if this means Rick has formally moved on from doing to teaching...
____



Looks like it's going to release on time!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/09 17:07:37


   
Made in ca
Deadshot Weapon Moderati




It's being co-written by a fellow with quite a lot of publications under his belt.
   
Made in ie
Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential





Kildare, Ireland

I wonder if dakka could get bulk discounts, then drop them in GWHQ
   
Made in gr
Thermo-Optical Spekter





Greece

Well its bound to be interesting.
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

I hate to say this, because I like Rick's rules and what he has done for the hobby; but I think he is out of ideas. He's just been re-hashing old rules for years, which I don't really blame him for.

I think I will pass on this book.

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Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

Would you mind expanding on that sentiment and providing some examples?

   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

Well, it is more of a feeling than a rational, well-documented thesis. i think he has made incremental changes as he has progressed. Here are my examples. Granted, I don't own everything the man has made, but here is my general flow of the games.

1. Warhammer and its ilk- Sure in later days he didn't do the bulk of the work but he laid down the basic mechanics. I-GO-U-GO.

Warhammer Ancients was basically more of the same. However, I do not recall how involved he was with that.

Own Both

2. Warmaster- This was a pretty big break for him as the mechanics were nothing like warhammer. About the only thing that was the same was that units had hits per unit instead of simple base removal. Pretty innovative really.

Reused the basics to make Warmaster: Ancients

Own Warmaster Ancients

3. Black Powder/Hail Ceasar/Pike and Shotte- Here he basically reused Warmaster and changed the units to no base removal. Not too much new here from Warmaster, as that was the big break through innovation.

Own Black Powder

4. Bolt Action- Pretty much a re-skin of Warhammer with two big exceptions. The first is the addition of the Pin Markers and the Second was the Dice-bag activation mechanic.

Own Bolt Action

5. Gates of - A re-skin of Bolt Action, with some tweaks for the setting. Again the innovation was mostly, Bolt Action and that was primarily Pin mechanics and activation dice.

Do Not Own

6. All Quiet on the Martian Front- The big innovation on this one was a Move-Shoot-Move turn system, but still essentially I-go-U-Go, the Hit/Penetration process, and using d10s. However, the rules themselves are pretty straight forward and simple.

Own AQMF

I mean looking at it this way, it looks like their has been a ton of innovation, but you don;t see a lot of radical ideas like Chambers using "reactions' in Starship Troopers, or Alessio completely removing model removal for Kings of War and making footprint key. I don't know, maybe I am being too hard on the guy. Like I said, i like his rules and the very British and "get a couple mates together and play with toy soldiers" approach he takes, but I can;t shake the feeling that he only tweaks around the edges.

Edit: looking back, he probably doesn't mind having a critic like me who has bought so many of his rulesets!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/03/10 16:27:24


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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

To be fair, he obviously likes to play a certain sort of game, and his rules reflect that.

   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

Consistently buying his rulesets is probably the most telling review possible

I certainly disagree with you characterization of the relationships between his rule sets ... I think you are eliding a lot of developments with your broad strokes approach, but you kind of acknowledge as much yourself. I would expect this kind of consistency from a successful professional designer building on not only "what works" but, as JohnHwangDD points out, the thing that sets the pros apart from the rest of us: a point of view.

I am pretty interested in this book. Of course, Priestley is the big billing here but I am actually just as interested in Lambshead's contributions after reading Germany Strikes.

   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

 Manchu wrote:
Consistently buying his rulesets is probably the most telling review possible
I would expect this kind of consistency from a successful professional designer building on not only "what works" but, as JohnHwangDD points out, the thing that sets the pros apart from the rest of us: a point of view.


Good points. The sad thing is, I still want to buy Hail Caesar even though I am pretty sure I know how it will work!

I think he has a very clear and consistent idea of what wargaming is and articulates it in his rules and mechanics rather well. There is no doubt he is a talented designer, but I would like to see him really push himself out of his comfort zone to see what happens!

Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing 
   
Made in gr
Thermo-Optical Spekter





Greece

Clearly you miss the fact that games like GOA are not intended to renovate the wheel but, to tell a new story, so reuse of a system that works well is quite logical.

A designer does not need to innovate in any or all of his systems and some key design elements become his or her hallmark, because its their preferences.

I disagree with Rick on many design subjects, not that I have ever talked to him, that does not stop my respect for him or reading articles by him for design insight, because even if I disagree, the knowledge he gives is valuable.
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

Bolt action came before Gates, didn't it?

Maybe it's just me, but I find Bolt Action to really instill a sense of drama in games. it's very much "based on the movie based on the war," but damn it's a pretty good movie!

While Warhammer, Warmaster, and Bolt Action all were the fountainhead for trees of similar games, that's still three very different game engines, all of which are considered quite good.
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

As I understand it, Alessio Cavatore and Rick Priestley collaborated on Bolt Action and Mr. Priestley brought some of those ideas, albeit with significant changes, to Gates of Antares. Calling GoA a BA re-skin is ... probably sufficient only for people who aren't interested in playing either. BA was until very recently my favorite miniatures game (I'm now deep in the clutches of SBG, another Cavatore/Priestley collaboration) and I have asked myself, would I try to sell somebody on GoA based on knowing they love BA? The answer is, definitely not. Someone who really knows either game will understand that their differences are much more significant than their similarities. There are things about GOA I hope might be incorporated into BA 2E -- which is not to say I don't think BA is great how it is (although yes LMGs are overcosted).

   
Made in us
Infiltrating Prowler





Portland, OR

I think the only book on game design I've ever bought has been Kobold Guide to Board Game Design. Although informative it was definitely from a point of view that was, they are successful thus they are right. I still enjoyed the book, it had a lot of useful information and different perspectives in it.

I would probably end up eventually getting this one as well, although I'm not sure I'm ready to dish out $25 for it yet. Other than Warhammer, I don't think I've ever played any of the games he has made rules for. Not that I wouldn't try them, I've heard good things, just never had many in my area to whom play them... and the genre of miniatures wasn't always my thing.
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

There is no doubt that some of Priestley's profile comes from having worked for GW. His name is well-known to players of GW games. If I mentioned James F Dunnigan, the name would be familiar to players of original Avalon Hill or SPI games like Panzerblitz and Sniper.

Priestley's rules seem to show an evolution, incorporating concepts that have been previously published in other rulesets. For example, the concept of whole element removal is in DBA published in 1988. Priestly may have come up with it independently, but a good designer would also take trouble to keep in touch with new development.

Lack of origination is not a failure in itself. Part of the skill of a designer is to take up, adapt and integrate different mechanism into a new game. The basic concept for the game is the important part.


I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

There really aren't that many novelties in game design, and much of it is "cooking" to select the "right" elements for one's game.

   
Made in gr
Thermo-Optical Spekter





Greece

Well look at boardgames, deck building is the most novel idea of the last decade and it is already incorporated in many game systems.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

My sense is that deckbuilding is probably not a good fit for a TTWG, where the physical handling should be on the minis and terrain, not the cards....

   
Made in gr
Thermo-Optical Spekter





Greece

It can work depending how skirmishy and RPGish you want to go, but I will agree its better for boardgames world.

I set it as an example of how rare is for a game mechanic to be "invented" not as an example of a new game mechanic to be used.

I do feel though that much innovation may come from bringing game mechanics from boardgames to the wargaming side.

And many failures of course.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

It's really a question of where you want the player focus to be.

Is the intent for the player to focus on tactical-strategic positioning, maneuver, threats and combat resolution?

Or is the intent for the player to focus on assembling a particular "hand" of cards, remembering which cards have been played, what's left in the deck, and their odds of further optimizing their hand?

And if that is the intent of the game, why bother having miniatures?

For a practical example, Relic Knights is a card game that uses miniatures to very poor effect.

   
Made in gr
Thermo-Optical Spekter





Greece

I have yet to play relic knights, shameful I know, but the miniatures fiasco has put me off.

Which is a bad excuse if one focuses on game design.

But true.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

RK is instructive to play, assuming you own it. If not, see if you can't download the print & play rules and give it a try.

Our group played it a few times, and sold off the bulk of it, just keeping a few minis. Assuming I ever finish KOG light, I'd kinda like to write a dueling game for the minis we kept.

   
Made in gr
Thermo-Optical Spekter





Greece

I have it, but the minis put me off... I should read it because it gives an alternative perspective on some aspects.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

Worst case, play a mini game with just the labels on the bases, and you'll see. It's a combo card game.

   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

http://johnstoysoldiers.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/author-copies-arrived-tabletop-wargames.html?spref=fb

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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

Thanks for the update!



I'm rather surprised that it's a color book.

   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

I'll definitely get a copy. Thanks for sharing.

Former moderator 40kOnline

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Mauleed





Sesame street

The guide is probably summed up in the intro: Don't do whatever gamesworkshop does

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

Except, the guide isn't for running a vertically-integrated $125 Million dollar games company. The guide is for making games that totally overlap and compete with the games that GW currently sells, possibly with nearly identical core mechanics based on what Rick has spent most of his life writing.

   
Made in de
Primus





Palmerston North

Good to know. I am not sure if I will buy it though as I still haven't got though the last book on wargame design I purchased.

I was hoping to finish my rule set this year, but maybe next year.
   
 
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