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 koooaei wrote:
Does blood axe warlord trait allow to redeploy after it's determined who goes 1st?
Cause if it is, some blood axe boyz are gona be not only a scoring or betting on 1st turn tool but a safe one that will add the needed mellee pressure on a flank turn 1 while buggies roll and score.

It's at the end of the deploy forces step. So actually maybe not?

By the way, also about the Blood axe trait, do you think we can redeploy/place in reserve like 3 transport vehicles with units embarked inside ? ... A bit like Tellyporta.

Oh, well, seems blood axe trait works before determining who goes first. So, a 45 strong blood axe force is out of the picture for my mechanical list. That's very unfortunate.

XC18 wrote:
By the way, also about the Blood axe trait, do you think we can redeploy/place in reserve like 3 transport vehicles with units embarked inside ? ... A bit like Tellyporta.

Yup!

When the vehicles hit the table, you deploy the embarked unit at the same time.

When the Blood Axe ability kicks in, you pick 'em off the table and stick 'em in reserve.

Now, this happens after both armies are set up but before you know who goes first. so it can trip you up, but if you want to be safe, it works well.

Personally, I plan on using it for a pair of Dakkajets and a Bonebreaka. Planes are *notoriously* swatable, but the way they work in 9th is that, when deployed, you stick 'em anywhere outside of 9 inches of the enemy, so you can be certain, no matter what, that they will not die until they'have had a chance to open fire.

For the Bonebreaka, same thing … it stays in reserve, then drops in, goes RAMMING SPEED! and should slam into a target since it'll be rolling 3D6, with the 'ere we go reroll if needed, to go 9". it *can* fail, but on average, it'll land, so you get one round of squishin' without having to worry about being melted first … choose your target wisely.

Now, that's 400 pts not on the table in turn 1, and a few of the runits, like the jumppack lads, might also be in deep strike mode, so you have to be ready to take it on the chin for the rest of your force but when it's time, you can hit HARD. Using the Blood Axe ability to fight n scoot and fight will also give you some tactical options for the Breaka, the jumppacks, and bikers, but man alive, are you hurting for Fast Attack slots.

Another odd thing is that badrukk gives re rolls 1s to himself but Snikrot doesn't.

All this plural key words are a mess.

Is it possible to have a Warboss and a Speedboss and be able to declare both a Waaagh and a Speedwaagh thanks to the Big Boss stratagem? Both models would be warlord, but I'm not sure due to the wording of the stratagem: it says that the model is treated as the warlord for the purpose of the warlord trait. Which means he can't call a waaagh/speedwaaagh as he isn't the actual warlord?

As far as I understand you only get one waaagh unless you take Ghaz, for his great waaagh!

As a sidenote the deffkilla wartrike is both a vehicle and a character so in a great waaagh! The wartrike will get both the waaagh, and speedwaaagh bonuses.

 Blackie wrote:
Is it possible to have a Warboss and a Speedboss and be able to declare both a Waaagh and a Speedwaagh thanks to the Big Boss stratagem? Both models would be warlord, but I'm not sure due to the wording of the stratagem: it says that the model is treated as the warlord for the purpose of the warlord trait. Which means he can't call a waaagh/speedwaaagh as he isn't the actual warlord?

When you use stratagems like this on a model (I think almost every 9th codex has them), you essentially replace any occurrence of "warlord" with "this model" for the warlord trait. For every other purpose, it's not your warlord, including calling the Waaagh!, unlocking stratagems or effects that trigger off killing a warlord.

Wakshaani wrote:

XC18 wrote:
By the way, also about the Blood axe trait, do you think we can redeploy/place in reserve like 3 transport vehicles with units embarked inside ? ... A bit like Tellyporta.

Yup!

When the vehicles hit the table, you deploy the embarked unit at the same time.

When the Blood Axe ability kicks in, you pick 'em off the table and stick 'em in reserve.

Now, this happens after both armies are set up but before you know who goes first. so it can trip you up, but if you want to be safe, it works well.

Personally, I plan on using it for a pair of Dakkajets and a Bonebreaka. Planes are *notoriously* swatable, but the way they work in 9th is that, when deployed, you stick 'em anywhere outside of 9 inches of the enemy, so you can be certain, no matter what, that they will not die until they'have had a chance to open fire.

For the Bonebreaka, same thing … it stays in reserve, then drops in, goes RAMMING SPEED! and should slam into a target since it'll be rolling 3D6, with the 'ere we go reroll if needed, to go 9". it *can* fail, but on average, it'll land, so you get one round of squishin' without having to worry about being melted first … choose your target wisely.

Now, that's 400 pts not on the table in turn 1, and a few of the runits, like the jumppack lads, might also be in deep strike mode, so you have to be ready to take it on the chin for the rest of your force but when it's time, you can hit HARD. Using the Blood Axe ability to fight n scoot and fight will also give you some tactical options for the Breaka, the jumppacks, and bikers, but man alive, are you hurting for Fast Attack slots.

one thing about the teleporter i noticed is that it doesn't allow monsters, but you can put gaz in a wagon as loop hole lol

On a side note, das anyone else have problems with the Code for the app? I'm not able to redeem mine and heard of other players in Germany who are having the same issues.Is this a local problem or worldwide?

Bossdoc wrote:
On a side note, das anyone else have problems with the Code for the app? I'm not able to redeem mine and heard of other players in Germany who are having the same issues.Is this a local problem or worldwide?

My box didn't arrive yet, will test as soon as I can.

so the gretchin rule preventing the use of stratagems is gone......and good riddance it was stupid

that suddenly makes kustom megakannons and tratkor kannons interesting, though there are no useful strats for them beyond careen

and makari has a use, he boosts mech gun leadership back up from 4 to 7 with his 12" aura to help stop them fleeing

and suddenly, just like that, they are actually useful again lol

Wakshaani wrote:


For the Bonebreaka, same thing … it stays in reserve, then drops in, goes RAMMING SPEED! and should slam into a target since it'll be rolling 3D6, with the 'ere we go reroll if needed, to go 9". it *can* fail, but on average, it'll land, so you get one round of squishin' without having to worry about being melted first … choose your target wisely.

if you wanna ramming speed an empty bonebreaka via tellyport... just use the hunta rig instead. its cheaper and better than a bonebreaka

hunta rig 160pts
SIX s8 ap2 2D, FOUR s7 ap2 3D, FOUR s5 ap1 1D attacks hitting on 3's (2's if its a vehicle or monster)
vs
bonebreaka 175pts
6+d6 s8 ap2 2D


EDIT:
done some math:

bonebreaka
vs primaris: 4,4 dead or 8,8w
vs T7 3+: 7w
vs T8 3+: 5,2w

rig:
vs Primaris: 4,2 dead + 0,9w(from 1d attacks) or 10,5w
vs T7 3+: 8,8w
vsT8 3+: 6,1w

oh and dont forget all the shooting the rig does

Hunta rig model has not been released yet though, that's why a bonebreaka is a legit option at the moment. I'd even invest the points (15? 20?) for the kustom job to give the rolla more attacks on average, since you're already putting 4CPs for that combo.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Is it possible to have a Warboss and a Speedboss and be able to declare both a Waaagh and a Speedwaagh thanks to the Big Boss stratagem? Both models would be warlord, but I'm not sure due to the wording of the stratagem: it says that the model is treated as the warlord for the purpose of the warlord trait. Which means he can't call a waaagh/speedwaaagh as he isn't the actual warlord?

When you use stratagems like this on a model (I think almost every 9th codex has them), you essentially replace any occurrence of "warlord" with "this model" for the warlord trait. For every other purpose, it's not your warlord, including calling the Waaagh!, unlocking stratagems or effects that trigger off killing a warlord.

That's what I thought. It sucks since I'd like to get both bonuses but I don't want to play Ghaz. Speedboss as the warlord looks more solid for the kinds of lists I like to field, I'll probably lean towards him.

but then again you could use the points of the red rolla (which give on average +1 attack me thinks and min 2) to upgrade the hunta rig to the killa rig (char keyword, psychic attacks and some other shenenigans)

i am not saying you shoule NEVER EVER field the bonebreaka, just that the new stuff is way more efficient. the wagons are still good as a shooting plattform for lootaz, tankbustaz or flashgitz (although the squigoth is better for the last options since it negates the heavy Penalty) but as a ramming implement form deepstrike? i see no reason not to get either one of the rigs instead

especially since they can do some shenaninganz with the big lobba and harpoon gun



EDIT and kinda offtopic
@ blackie

last week i've got this t-shirt as a birthday gift xD

Any idea on how big is mozrag/warboss on Squig? Want to create my own version with a 3d printed colossal Squig and a dude hanging from the side

Concerning Burnas, actually now that their guns are D6 hit and 12" range, they actually have far more firepower than shootas, no ?
Ex.a suicide squad (coming from reserve or Tellyporta , at best at 9" from target), let's assume 10 Burnas (ie. 8burnas + 2 spanners) they'll get 8xD6 so ~24 autohits.
To get the same amount of hits you would need 36 shootas boys which is 3 times more expensive.(Or 24 of you manage to get longer range)

RedNoak wrote:

Wakshaani wrote:


For the Bonebreaka, same thing … it stays in reserve, then drops in, goes RAMMING SPEED! and should slam into a target since it'll be rolling 3D6, with the 'ere we go reroll if needed, to go 9". it *can* fail, but on average, it'll land, so you get one round of squishin' without having to worry about being melted first … choose your target wisely.

if you wanna ramming speed an empty bonebreaka via tellyport... just use the hunta rig instead. its cheaper and better than a bonebreaka

hunta rig 160pts
SIX s8 ap2 2D, FOUR s7 ap2 3D, FOUR s5 ap1 1D attacks hitting on 3's (2's if its a vehicle or monster)
vs
bonebreaka 175pts
6+d6 s8 ap2 2D

Deff rolla attacks are S9 AP -2 2dmg and hit on 2+ (math correctly considered this)

EDIT:
done some math:

bonebreaka
vs primaris: 4,4 dead or 8,8w
vs T7 3+: 7w
vs T8 3+: 5,2w

rig:
vs Primaris: 4,2 dead + 0,9w(from 1d attacks) or 10,5w
vs T7 3+: 8,8w
vsT8 3+: 6,1w

I get different results...
For MEQ, bonebreaka kills 4.4, kill rig is 3.444
For rhino equivalents, bonebreaka does 7.037, kill rig is 8.33
For LRBT equivalents, bonebreaka does 7.037, kill rig is 6.111
I assumed beast snagga +1 to hit for rhino and LRBT, but not for MEQ.

oh and dont forget all the shooting the rig does

Eh, considering its BS, you might as well forget it.

RedNoak wrote:
but then again you could use the points of the red rolla (which give on average +1 attack me thinks and min 2) to upgrade the hunta rig to the killa rig (char keyword, psychic attacks and some other shenenigans)

i am not saying you shoule NEVER EVER field the bonebreaka, just that the new stuff is way more efficient. the wagons are still good as a shooting plattform for lootaz, tankbustaz or flashgitz (although the squigoth is better for the last options since it negates the heavy Penalty) but as a ramming implement form deepstrike? i see no reason not to get either one of the rigs instead

especially since they can do some shenaninganz with the big lobba and harpoon gun



EDIT and kinda offtopic
@ blackie

last week i've got this t-shirt as a birthday gift xD

Spoiler:

I also think that the rig is better for that job but there's a problem with model's availability since it's not even been released yet. Most people play with the model they actually have. That's why I advocate for the bonebreaka, which is a reasonable alternative to the rig. Not as powerful, I agree, but good enough to be considered if that is what's available at the moment.

Wagons as shooting platforms aka T7 wagons, are no-go for me since T6 4+ is pretty much the same as T7 3+ against all the anti tank in the world and +6W doesn't justify +65 points, at that point just consider much cheaper trukks.

I love the t-shirt .

Wakshaani wrote:

XC18 wrote:
By the way, also about the Blood axe trait, do you think we can redeploy/place in reserve like 3 transport vehicles with units embarked inside ? ... A bit like Tellyporta.

Yup!

When the vehicles hit the table, you deploy the embarked unit at the same time.

When the Blood Axe ability kicks in, you pick 'em off the table and stick 'em in reserve.

Now, this happens after both armies are set up but before you know who goes first. so it can trip you up, but if you want to be safe, it works well.

Personally, I plan on using it for a pair of Dakkajets and a Bonebreaka. Planes are *notoriously* swatable, but the way they work in 9th is that, when deployed, you stick 'em anywhere outside of 9 inches of the enemy, so you can be certain, no matter what, that they will not die until they'have had a chance to open fire.

For the Bonebreaka, same thing … it stays in reserve, then drops in, goes RAMMING SPEED! and should slam into a target since it'll be rolling 3D6, with the 'ere we go reroll if needed, to go 9". it *can* fail, but on average, it'll land, so you get one round of squishin' without having to worry about being melted first … choose your target wisely.

Now, that's 400 pts not on the table in turn 1, and a few of the runits, like the jumppack lads, might also be in deep strike mode, so you have to be ready to take it on the chin for the rest of your force but when it's time, you can hit HARD. Using the Blood Axe ability to fight n scoot and fight will also give you some tactical options for the Breaka, the jumppacks, and bikers, but man alive, are you hurting for Fast Attack slots.

As someone who loves Deffrollas and Blood axes I'll have to give this a try once I get a hold of the new codex. It's CP heavy but sounds like a very fun way to invest the points.

I'm not sure I understood how the Blood axe trait will help keep the Dakkajet's more survivable but I also have zero experience with flyers. I've picked up a few over the years since I love how they look but I've never run one.

 Blackie wrote:

Wagons as shooting platforms aka T7 wagons, are no-go for me since T6 4+ is pretty much the same as T7 3+ against all the anti tank in the world and +6W doesn't justify +65 points, at that point just consider much cheaper trukks.

Kannonwagon. His huge adventage is the range. It´ s our only solid long range gun. Helps me a lot. Sit and screen the backfield and do the hell in enemy deploy. With old More dakka it was pretty briliant.

Bossdoc wrote:
On a side note, das anyone else have problems with the Code for the app? I'm not able to redeem mine and heard of other players in Germany who are having the same issues.Is this a local problem or worldwide?

The app isnt being updated until the standalone codex release later in the year. If you have input the code in, when it goes live, itll automatically update for you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Emicrania wrote:
Any idea on how big is mozrag/warboss on Squig? Want to create my own version with a 3d printed colossal Squig and a dude hanging from the side

looks like a 80mm round base, and deff dread sized.

Goff detachments with

- squigboss
- 30 snagga
- nob squig
- 10 kommando
- 15 stormboy
- 9 squighog
- 1 killrig
- Maybe 1 dread, but DS + ramming speed is too expensive, and walker may not be useful.

bad moons

- deffkilla (not sure)
- 9 warbikes
- 2 rukkatrukk and dakkajet or 3 rukkatrukk

I try to clean the screens with dakka and big blob of squigs just rush mid and try to grab objectives with kommando and stormboyz.

Drukhari would counter me with fight last and dark lances into the dakkajet/killrig. But the rest of the armies will struggle I think

Important: Bad moons is due that rukkatrukks launchers are only 18". I need more range...

 Tomsug wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

Wagons as shooting platforms aka T7 wagons, are no-go for me since T6 4+ is pretty much the same as T7 3+ against all the anti tank in the world and +6W doesn't justify +65 points, at that point just consider much cheaper trukks.

Kannonwagon. His huge adventage is the range. It´ s our only solid long range gun. Helps me a lot. Sit and screen the backfield and do the hell in enemy deploy. With old More dakka it was pretty briliant.

It's a nice tank indeed, I also played it, but I don't think it's meant to be an effective platform for some shooty units inside since it can only transport 6 dudes. Could be nice for Flash Gitz but they have short range while that tank really wants to be far far away from the action. The new gunwagon with da boomer and Boomboyz buff (which can't be given to Kannonwagon since it lacks the WAGON keyword) is a solid alternative to that FW model I think.

 Jidmah wrote:


I get different results...
For MEQ, bonebreaka kills 4.4, kill rig is 3.444
For rhino equivalents, bonebreaka does 7.037, kill rig is 8.33
For LRBT equivalents, bonebreaka does 7.037, kill rig is 6.111
I assumed beast snagga +1 to hit for rhino and LRBT, but not for MEQ.

oh and dont forget all the shooting the rig does

Eh, considering its BS, you might as well forget it.

yeah, forgot that bonebraka is s9! and my math was a bit off (guess i got confused with THREE different melee profiles )... but still i think its the better option and that the shooting isnt so bad... its a d6 indirect 2D weapon and basically a rerollable hooking missile, plus you could pull off some shenanigans with the heavy lobbas "half move, -2 to advance and charge" strat. also it costs 15points less and has a 6++

The Blood Axe redeploy is before you know who goes first? That lowers it's value considerably. Hhmm.

Acehilator wrote:
The Blood Axe redeploy is before you know who goes first? That lowers it's value considerably. Hhmm.

IMO, it's best used with stuff like kanonwagons, SAG or mek guns, where you can line up shots to units they have deployed in hiding.

RedNoak wrote:

Wakshaani wrote:


For the Bonebreaka, same thing … it stays in reserve, then drops in, goes RAMMING SPEED! and should slam into a target since it'll be rolling 3D6, with the 'ere we go reroll if needed, to go 9". it *can* fail, but on average, it'll land, so you get one round of squishin' without having to worry about being melted first … choose your target wisely.

if you wanna ramming speed an empty bonebreaka via tellyport... just use the hunta rig instead. its cheaper and better than a bonebreaka

hunta rig 160pts
SIX s8 ap2 2D, FOUR s7 ap2 3D, FOUR s5 ap1 1D attacks hitting on 3's (2's if its a vehicle or monster)
vs
bonebreaka 175pts
6+d6 s8 ap2 2D


EDIT:
done some math:

bonebreaka
vs primaris: 4,4 dead or 8,8w
vs T7 3+: 7w
vs T8 3+: 5,2w

rig:
vs Primaris: 4,2 dead + 0,9w(from 1d attacks) or 10,5w
vs T7 3+: 8,8w
vsT8 3+: 6,1w

oh and dont forget all the shooting the rig does

Your math is a bit off (The Bonebreaka's Deathrolla hits on a 2+, wounds on a 2+, and at damage 2, kills a Primaris with each wounding hit unless they save at -2, for example) but there are two bigger issues:

First, while the new models are strong, I don't really care for the look.

Secondly … I have a Bonebreaka. I don't have the new, unreleased, thing yet.

So I'll be using a Bonebreaka.

Hey guys. If you call a waagh in turn 2 and you have dakka jets arriving from deepstrike same turn, do units still receive the waagh buff? They arrive after its called.

I mean it is army wide, id say they do. Its also a 2 turn buff anyway.

 The Red Hobbit wrote:

As someone who loves Deffrollas and Blood axes I'll have to give this a try once I get a hold of the new codex. It's CP heavy but sounds like a very fun way to invest the points.

I'm not sure I understood how the Blood axe trait will help keep the Dakkajet's more survivable but I also have zero experience with flyers. I've picked up a few over the years since I love how they look but I've never run one.

The only CP is the RAMMING SPEED! strat… being Blood axe lets you toss three units in reserve for free, so that doesn't cost you any CP.

The Dakkajest are the two other units that you stick in reserve … since they aren't on the board for 1, or 2 if you go second, rounds of shooting, they can't be destroyed before doing anything. When it's your turn, you place them on the table, thus getting one round of shooting no matter what. if well-timed, the rest of your force could be engaged with the units that could clip your wings, giving you a pair of planes that could fly around, threatened only by small-arms fire.

A big problem with using flying units ordinarily is that they start on the board, everyone can see them, and the opponent's anti-vehicle weapons will take them down if you lose the go-first roll. This way, you ensure that you get to use them before you lose them. And it's free.

Now, if your opponent doesn't really have anything that can take them down in round one, you could redeploy other units/ It's all about movement shenanigans, here, and mixed-unit forces. I'm looking at a Brigade possibly for my gus, or possibly a Battalion plus … oh lord, bad time to blank … the fast attack one … as what I need are a TON of fast attack slots, since that's where our best stuff is. Bikes, buggies, Koptas, the utility of Stormboys… it's a good, GOOD slot for us. I just wish that the Koptas had the old option of Big Shootas instead of Rokkits to get them at a cheaper price, so I could properly swarm (and use my models that are thus-armed!) but I can manage either way.

The big hold-up is that I don't have the character options I need to really make it sing, but, more as this one develops.